Author Topic: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?  (Read 2382 times)

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Offline alpinegroove

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Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« on: February 17, 2013, 05:49:37 PM »
Does anyone here know how much protein is in Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?

Would it be beneficial to mix in with it some wheat gluten? How much? What might those benefits be?

Thank you.



Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 06:04:34 PM »
That is a 14% protein flour. What are you trying to accomplish by adding more gluten?

John

Offline alpinegroove

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 06:08:16 PM »
I am not sure. I thought I read somewhere that it would be better to use flour with more than 14% protein.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 06:09:24 PM »
I am not sure. I thought I read somewhere that it would be better to use flour with more than 14% protein.


If you are making bagels maybe. What style of pizza are you making?

John
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 06:13:06 PM by dellavecchia »

Offline alpinegroove

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 06:11:50 PM »
I usually make Peter Reinhart's neo-neapolitan.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 06:15:11 PM »
You can certainly use that flour for that recipe. But is there an issue you are having that you thought adding VWG would fix?

John

Offline alpinegroove

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 06:16:44 PM »
No, not really an issue. As I said, I thought I read that somewhere...Maybe I am mis-remembering.


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 06:21:48 PM »
No, not really an issue. As I said, I thought I read that somewhere...Maybe I am mis-remembering.



Ultimate performer is a very esoteric, high end, high protein flour. You do not need high protein flour to make good pizza. Protein is not created equally in all flours. And more does not equal better. Flour in the 12% range is more than enough for neo-Neapolitan. But UP can work very well too as long as you mix correctly.

John

Offline dineomite

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 06:29:35 PM »
John,

  What do you mean by "mix correctly"?  ???

-Cal


Offline alpinegroove

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2013, 06:35:54 PM »
I am lucky to be able to buy UP in bulk in SF.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2013, 06:38:48 PM »
John,

  What do you mean by "mix correctly"?  ???

-Cal

In the case if this flour and the Reinhart recipe, you would not want to, for example, use a no knead or stretch and fold approach. You would want to mechanically mix this flour for a good amount of time to get the gluten developed. This is also not the type of flour you mix until incorporated and cold ferment for gluten development.

John

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2013, 06:41:38 PM »
I use this flour for my NYC-style dough and bagels using the stretch-and-fold method. But then again, I use stretch-and-fold for my breakfast cereal  :D
Sometimes I use big words that I donít fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis. - @itjenlawrence

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2013, 06:42:24 PM »
I am lucky to be able to buy UP in bulk in SF.


Very lucky indeed. Try High Performer or the Artisan Bread Flour for your neo recipe. You might like them better.

John

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2013, 06:42:44 PM »
I use this flour for my NYC-style dough and bagels using the stretch-and-fold method. But then again, I use stretch-and-fold for my breakfast cereal  :D

You are a flour warrior!

John

Offline alpinegroove

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2013, 07:23:29 PM »
Very lucky indeed. Try High Performer or the Artisan Bread Flour for your neo recipe. You might like them better.

Thanks for the tip. What do you like better about them?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2013, 09:06:02 PM »
In the case if this flour and the Reinhart recipe, you would not want to, for example, use a no knead or stretch and fold approach. You would want to mechanically mix this flour for a good amount of time to get the gluten developed. This is also not the type of flour you mix until incorporated and cold ferment for gluten development.

John

John I would agree with you that with UP, you wouldn't want to use a typical high hydration and minimal development of the dough.    I would say that at typical hydrations used for typical HG flours, using UP....and then doing your typical round of S & F (a la Tartine / Chad Robertson), the gluten will not be developed sufficiently and the dough will tend to fall flat.  You can use a minimal mix followed by a S&F technique with this flour with a cold ferment, you just have to make a few adjustments.  With this flour, you have to develop it further than typical HG flours.  So if you lower your hydration a bit (maybe 5%) and up the number of stretch and folds per round and maybe toss in a few extra rounds, UP will behave more like a typical HG flour.  

Chau
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 09:25:43 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline alpinegroove

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2013, 09:16:30 PM »
On Giusto's website, it says:

Protein: 13.0-14.5%.

http://giustos.com/professional/flours/unbleached-white-flours/giustos-organic-ultimate-performer-unbleached-flour.html

But on the label at the store where I get it in bulk, the nutritional info says the following:

Per 100 grams, 11.5 grams of protein.



Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2013, 09:25:59 PM »
Not sure if this is helpful, but this is brief video clip of the final stretch & fold of a batch of NYC-style dough I recently made using Giustos UP. The dough stated out at 70% hydration (including starter water) but I spritzed it after each S&F, so I guess it may have been closer to 75% hydration.



Sometimes I use big words that I donít fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis. - @itjenlawrence

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2013, 09:38:13 PM »
Against my better judgement, I just started a batch of tartine bread dough using Guisto's UP at 80% hydration including the starter water.  I'll be using a S&F technique but something closer to my Lazy Man's bread technique which involves developing the dough more.   :P

Offline alpinegroove

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2013, 11:10:36 PM »
What's the problem with using UP for the Tartine recipe?
I have done that many times successfully.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2013, 07:09:50 AM »
What's the problem with using UP for the Tartine recipe?
I have done that many times successfully.


You can manipulate any flour for any application, and you can get great results. But for Tartine, which is really a french loaf at heart, an 11-12% winter wheat flour yields that best results. That is the intended application for that kind of flour. Like I said before, all protein is not created equally. Spring wheat flour, such as UP High and Ultimate Performer, in general, is high in protein but not as high in protein quality. Try your Tartine loaf with Giustos Artisan and see if you like the difference.

John

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2013, 09:28:12 AM »
What's the problem with using UP for the Tartine recipe?
I have done that many times successfully.


Would you mind posting some pictures of your bread using this flour?  Also what hydration did you use?  Also I just realized that I have Guisto's High Performer High Gluten flour.  I'm not sure the differences with UP or if it is the same flour. 

Chau