Author Topic: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project  (Read 16650 times)

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Offline Reep

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2013, 01:31:06 AM »
Finally got some help getting the foundation layer in.  Tomorrow I work with the sand and the oven floor.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 01:33:25 AM by Reep »


Offline Reep

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2013, 04:28:31 PM »
I started assembling the cooking tiles.  First, here are a few things I noticed that were less than perfect.  Not big problems, but less than perfect.

The first picture shows the alignment of the oven floor.  It is a bit stair stepped, which I thought would make balancing the floor a problem as each piece is higher toward the back of the oven than the front.  

The second picture shows a typical tile.  For each square tile, one edge was slightly bowed, which made really tight joints not possible.  

The third picture shows a fairly good gap at the back of the first joint. 

Additionally, a couple tiles had very minor chips in the corners (I put them toward the outside) and some major chips on the bottom side (which did not show).  Some had some big scratches and brick buildup on the bottom, which I had to remove with a rasp or they would not sit flat.  Another observation is that each tile appears to be slightly higher in the middle than on the edges, which ends up making fewer rough edges even though the joints aren't super tight.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 04:36:35 PM by Reep »

Offline Reep

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2013, 04:35:18 PM »
Now on the the first version of the floor and some questions. 

The first picture shows the whole floor (looks longer than it is due to wide angle lens).

The next three pictures show the floor height with a strait edge. 

Questions:

1) If I rub my hand over the surface, I really don't hit any big snags even though there are some gaps in the tiles and some highs and lows.  I did not perceive any place where a pizza or peel would catch on an edge.  Is that good enough?

2)  A couple tiles wobble a bit corner to corner (less than 1 mm of play), should I use sand to prevent that or just let it be as it doesn't provide any catch spots and the tiles will likely expand and contract anyway?

3)  Are the gaps between the tiles a concern?  I assume they will fill up with ash at some point.  Is a tighter fit more desirable?

4)  The gaps on the sides are quite large (1-2 cm).  Should I cut brick to put in there?  Put mortar and sand mixture?  Or, let it just fill up with ash?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2013, 04:40:50 PM »
If you don't get an answer, send a PM to [Tom] Tscarborough.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2013, 05:04:19 PM »
Hi Reep,

Forum members are welcome to comment with their expertise, but here is my answer.
The tiles are hand made which makes them so durable and ensure the high quality, yet they do have very slight default to the eye if put against a straight edge. A few extra tiles are provided just in case there is some damage during the shipping or too great of an imperfection on a tile.
Machine made tiles may appear perfect to the eye but will show their default once exposed to the heat.

1) Yes, it is just fine and I can guaranty you that the result when cooking will be perfect
2) As described in the installation guide you can put a little of the refractory clay,mixed with sand, under the wobbly tiles to level it perfectly. But with something of 1 mm or less, you can just let it as is. Once you start burning the wood, it will settle nicely
3) The tiles need that space to freely expend and retract. Once you will have cured your oven, any of the minor gap you describe will be barely visible.
4) As described in the installation guide you need to fill the gap on the perimeter of the floor where the tiles and the concrete meet with the refractory clay. Do not fill the space with bricks, this space is necessary as well so the tiles can expend and retract (otherwise they will crack over time). Once you place the dome, part of the gap will be covered.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Antoine


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Offline Reep

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2013, 05:19:19 PM »
Thanks Antoine.  I will say that it went together much easier than I anticipated.  If tiles were perfectly cut with exact edges, I think it would be almost impossible to get a surface with no catches.  I was a bit surprised that just placing them in with no sand did provide a surface that I could rub my hand around and not discern any catch points.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2013, 11:00:12 PM »
Ideally they would be at a 45 degree angle, but since they are already in, I wouldn't worry about it.  Gaps no problem.   You could get a grinding cup and smooth it off, but I am not convinced that it makes much difference, and unless you have more than 1/4" vertical difference between tiles I wouldn't bother..
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 11:06:09 PM by Tscarborough »

Offline Reep

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2013, 06:49:48 PM »
Okay, I reset the floor today with the sand/mortar mix.  Took a bit of time and is not perfect, but was an improvement.  Not that it matters a lot, but using the sand and mortar lifted the whole floor so now the floor is perfectly level with the entry tiles, rather than below them.  Before it was probably 95% of perfect, now it is probably 97%.  Close enough for me.

There is only one dodgy place and that is on the far left side where my fire will be.  I would post a picture, but it looks the same as above so no point.

Lesson learned: use the finest sand you can find.  I had troubles in a couple of thin spots with big pieces of sand acting as a fulcrum and had to pull the tile, remove the stone, and reset.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2013, 04:18:29 PM »
Yes, the size of the sand is a function of the desired joint, ideally, it will be 1/4 to 1/3, Maximum, of the desired joint.  It still needs to be graded from that size down, though (not consistently sized).


Offline Reep

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2013, 11:06:53 AM »
It looks like we are on for installation of the dome tomorrow morning (finally!).  I'll try and get pictures and update the thread.   

Caputo 00 and San Marzano tomatoes are waiting in the kitchen. :drool: Since I still have to put the insulation on, get some utensils and some wood, they may be waiting a while longer.

Offline pizza dr

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #60 on: February 28, 2013, 11:30:23 PM »
Don't forget the cure! 

Offline ForrestM

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #61 on: February 28, 2013, 11:42:30 PM »
Hey Reep.  I just got mine put together.  I will be posting up a build thread soon.  It goes pretty fast when you get enough people together to lift things in place.

Offline Reep

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2013, 04:09:25 PM »
Don't forget the cure! 

What do I have that needs a cure??? :o

Okay, just kidding.  Yeah, I need to get the insulation on next and get some wood and get it ready for the upcoming rain (until I get the vent piping done).

Offline Reep

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2013, 04:13:23 PM »
Okay, had the crew out today of four strong backs (not mine) and got the oven put together.  It was a bit different because it had the middle section, which really needed to go in last.  Back first, then front, then middle. It all came together quickly though.  

With the raised option (which is built into the dome on my model, not separate), the pieces are very heavy. Four lean, but strong, guys had a hard time manipulating it in my awkward space.  Nothing else really surprising about it.  After the bottom is done, the dome was only three pieces--four if you count the arch.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 04:16:39 PM by Reep »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2013, 04:24:13 PM »
Coming along nicely there Reep...boy, what a view you'll have while standing in front baking in your oven. Stick some night floods down low there pointing out at your neighbors property.  8)

I have a club in Germany that we visit...out back of the rear patio faces a half football field sized area that is all light up at night and the locals do combat/police type training out there with their German Shepperd dogs(guys in mummy suits,etc.)...your set up reminded me of that...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 04:29:46 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Reep

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2013, 04:27:01 PM »
Question:

What do I have to do before I can start breaking it in (curing)?  I plan on attaching the flue connector tonight.  Do I need the insulation first?  After that can I just start heating it up.  I plan to run a longer chimney (about 4 feet with dual elbows to offset the chimney over the oven) and build a metal stud/concrete board enclosure to cover it.  After that the concrete board will be covered with stone veneer and stucco (eventually).  

Bob, yeah, the view is nice, and it overlooks the sunset on the Santa Monica mountains.  The whole kitchen was designed to look that direction while cooking--and block parts of the view that aren't as interesting.

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2013, 06:33:20 PM »
Do the pieces just fit together (tongue and groove kind of thing) or do you have to mortar pieces together?

Looks great. I am thoroughly jealous.


Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #67 on: March 01, 2013, 09:05:17 PM »
What do I have to do before I can start breaking it in (curing)?  
Hi Reep,

Once you have put on the flue connector you can start your small and gentle fires to start the curing process. It is better to have the insulation on when you do that, but not required. Having the insulation on helps keeping the oven at a study temperature without much of a fire and the water can evaporate slowly.
Start a small fire and when the flames start touching the dome, spread the fire out and let it die down.
Keep the fires small for a couple of days, with the flame not touching the dome. You don't need a continuous fire, just a fire every hour or so to keep the dome warm. As a good rule of thumb, if you can't touch the dome with your hand, it is too hot and you need to let it cool down some.
The dome thermometer shouldn't get above 60 C or 150 F for the first 8 hours of fire. The second day the dome thermometer shouldn't get above 70 C or 160 F.
On the third day you can slowly bring your oven dome temp to 90 C or 190 F
On the fourth day, through out the course of the day, you will be able to slowly bring your oven to full temperature.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Antoine
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Offline Reep

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #68 on: March 01, 2013, 09:15:29 PM »
Thanks Antoine.  I was reading over the next steps about the insulation.  A bit confused on the foil part.  Is that something I get and use?  I didn't see it in the box.  Do I triple insulate with the layers and then cover it with heavy duty aluminum foil and aluminum tape (which I do have)?

Jon, yes the pieces do have an overlap.  I think this is the same for the two-piece domes too.  Mine is three-piece and has a center arch, which has at least a 1" (maybe 1.5") overlap on both sides.  Plenty of space to work with.  The joint between the dome and the floor is a butt joint.  This is actually better as you can move the dome pieces around a bit to get them in the right place.

Offline JConk007

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #69 on: March 01, 2013, 10:25:27 PM »
Looks great !!
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Offline Reep

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2013, 12:09:35 AM »
I must say that I really do like the internal dimensions.  The raised height with the semi-deep oven really looks versatile--although the 950B raised probably would have been enough.  Pizza will be the primary use of course, but I can see a lot of potential for other things as well. 

Offline Reep

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #71 on: March 02, 2013, 12:20:11 AM »
Here are some pictures of the guys who actually did the work.  Also, of the inside of the oven.  I used a wide angle lens to get it, so it isn't really 20' deep. 

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #72 on: March 02, 2013, 12:24:14 AM »
Nice build, it looks deady pizza serious.  I can't wait to see the curing fires and some pizza.
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #73 on: March 02, 2013, 12:31:09 AM »
Hey Reep, In pic #2...were you waiting to hear the big bad Kaaa-raaack!! sound or what man?   :-D

Sweet oven dude..this is going to be nice.  ;)

Bob
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Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2013, 10:24:41 AM »
Do I triple insulate with the layers and then cover it with heavy duty aluminum foil and aluminum tape (which I do have)?
Yes, you triple insulate with the provided ceramic fiber blanket to get 3" thickness of insulation. Then you can put foil over it, but wait you are done with the curing fire to put the foil so the water can evaporate properly. Otherwise the water gets trapped between the insulation and the foil and you have water running down the sides.

Antoine
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