Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!

[norma427]

Norma,

Was it only the first pizza that you used the blockbuster pan for? If so, that might be the pan to use.

Peter

Peter,

Yes, it was only the first pizza in this thread that I used the blackbuster steel pan.  If that is the pan to be used for this current formulation, then I won't be able to call them pizzas Detroit style.  They will look very similiar to my Greek style pizzas then. 

Norma

[norma427]

I typically use peanut oil but for these two I used olive oil in a sprayer as a sub.  I pour maybe a tablespoon of oil in each pan and then use a pastry brush to spread it over the bottom and up on the sides, so there's a thin, but noticeable sheen of oil.  When I first got the pans I also put a small swipe of Crisco into the corners and along the sides at cheese height (think this was at PizzaHog's suggestion in the Buddy's thread), but I don't need that now that the pans have been used a while. 

Skee,

Thanks a lot for telling me what you used before and on your recent pizzas. 

Norma

[norma427]

Norma, have you tried using something with a higher saturated fat content, like lard, in the bottom of your pan?

Tdavis,

I didn't try anything with a higher saurated fat content on this thread, but did try Manteca in the Greek thread.  Then I was using the blackbuster pan too.  I do have some MFB that I could try.

Thanks for your suggestion! 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Yes, it was only the first pizza in this thread that I used the blackbuster steel pan.  If that is the pan to be used for this current formulation, then I won't be able to call them pizzas Detroit style.  They will look very similiar to my Greek style pizzas then. 

Norma,

While it is true that the type of pan used to make the Detroit style pizza is an important component of that style, there are still enough other attributes and features of your Buddy's clones that, in my opinion, would support your calling your Buddy's clones "Detroit style". Of course, you can still try to use your blue steel pans with your Buddy's clones in your deck oven at market but you may have to play around with using a cover during baking to keep the top of the pizza from overbaking while the bottom crust develops color and crisps up, and using one or more pizza screens under the pan in the event the bottom is done sooner than the top. In a way, it is like the problems that many of our members have when trying to bake Chicago deep-dish pizzas on pizza stones in their home ovens and get a crispy (rather than soggy) bottom crust yet completely cook the contents of the pizza without burning the crust at the top.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

While it is true that the type of pan used to make the Detroit style pizza is an important component of that style, there are still enough other attributes and features of your Buddy's clones that, in my opinion, would support your calling your Buddy's clones "Detroit style". Of course, you can still try to use your blue steel pans with your Buddy's clones in your deck oven at market but you may have to play around with using a cover during baking to keep the top of the pizza from overbaking while the bottom crust develops color and crisps up, and using one or more pizza screens under the pan in the event the bottom is done sooner than the top. In a way, it is like the problems that many of our members have when trying to bake Chicago deep-dish pizzas on pizza stones in their home ovens and get a crispy (rather than soggy) bottom crust yet completely cook the contents of the pizza without burning the crust at the top.

Peter

Peter,

I think it is important that I keep playing around with a Buddy’s clones in the steel pans I am using right now, instead of trying out my blackbuster pan, or trying to purchase more of the blackbuster pans.  I know Bova does sell different blackbuster pans, but they are very expensive in my opinion and I am not sure what sizes of blackbuster they carry, although I believe that I saw rectangular ones the last time I visited Bova.  I sure don’t want to go to the expense of ordering more pans when I don‘t know how a Detroit Buddy‘s clone will go over at market.  

I think your idea is good to just play around with different methods of baking a Buddy’s clone in my deck oven.  I want to try a Buddy’s clone either in my home oven, or my mom’s home oven soon with a lower bake temperature to see if I can achieve a crisper bottom.  Do you have any suggestions about what I should try first in my deck oven.  

I know I have played around with Chicago style deep dish pizzas (double crusted) and know I had to do a fair amount of playing around to get the top and bottom crusts done at the same time.  That process was fairly complicated, but those attempts were made in my home oven.

Thanks for your ideas!

Norma

[norma427]

Robin, from Foremost Farms called me this morning in regards to the to questions I had about Foremost Farms brick cheese.  She first began to explain that Foremost Farms mostly produces and sells Italian cheeses, which are mozzarellas, provolone and some cheddars.  Robin did say that there is one Foremost Farm plant that does produce brick cheese though, but that was for special order only.  Robin went on to explain to place an order for the brick cheese that they produce a full vat (4,000 lbs.) of brick cheese and that is what would need to be ordered.  That would be 2 pallets of 54 cases (40 lb. blocks).   

I told Robin that I was just experimenting with brick cheese for a Detroit style pizza and really couldn’t order that amount of brick cheese.

We then on to talking about how similar brick cheese is to cheddar.  I told her of the different kinds of cheddar I had used and how the cheddars can be mild, or have a stronger taste profile after the cheddars are aged.  She also said that the Foremost Farms brick cheese also changes its flavor profile the longer it is aged.

I told Robin of the brick cheese I had ordered from Mandi Cheese shop (Eddie’s brick cheese) and asked her if she had ever heard of that brick cheese.  She said she didn’t.  I told her about my experiments with the Eddie’s brick cheese producing a good tasting Detroit style pizza.  I also told Robin that Mandi cheese shop had told me the Eddie’s brick cheese is also made in Wisconsin by Great Lakes.  Robin told me Great Lakes is also a really big cheese producer and maybe I could contact them about where there might be a distributor in Pa. for their brick cheese.  She said she would think Great Lakes brick cheese would be very similar in taste to Foremost Farms brick cheese.  I told Robin there is a pizza business in Pa. (Victory Pig) that I think might use brick cheese, so there must be some big cheese company making their brick cheese and also a distributor in Pa. that is selling Victory Pig brick cheese.  She said she agreed.

I thanked her for calling me with the information and she said she really wasn’t of any help, since they can’t send me a sample of their brick cheese.  I said she was a big help in helping me to understand more about brick cheese.

Norma 

[Skee]

I want to try a Buddy’s clone either in my home oven, or my mom’s home oven soon with a lower bake temperature to see if I can achieve a crisper bottom.  Do you have any suggestions about what I should try first in my deck oven.

Norma, my oven setup is similar to a deck oven with one stone on the first real shelf slot, so maybe 4-5" above the bottom of the oven and a second stone sitting on the top shelf just under the broiler, so there is solid bottom heat and consistent radiant heat beating down on the top.  So far I've had the best results in the 475-495F range with a couple of turns of the pans during the process to help the sides stay even.  If I go higher than 495, at I did on Tuesday, the cheese on the rim burns before the top is completely cooked. 

My family prefers the cheese to be a toasty brown on top, so after 15 minutes between the two stones, I move the pans to sit on the top stone and this toasts the cheese nicely, but without the toasting it will end up almost white, maybe a little spotting.

[Pete-zza]

I think your idea is good to just play around with different methods of baking a Buddy’s clone in my deck oven.  I want to try a Buddy’s clone either in my home oven, or my mom’s home oven soon with a lower bake temperature to see if I can achieve a crisper bottom.  Do you have any suggestions about what I should try first in my deck oven.  

Norma,

Can you tell me whether the pan cover shown in the second photo of Reply 180 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg222029.html#msg222029 is metal (maybe aluminum) or plastic?

Peter

[norma427]

Norma, my oven setup is similar to a deck oven with one stone on the first real shelf slot, so maybe 4-5" above the bottom of the oven and a second stone sitting on the top shelf just under the broiler, so there is solid bottom heat and consistent radiant heat beating down on the top.  So far I've had the best results in the 475-495F range with a couple of turns of the pans during the process to help the sides stay even.  If I go higher than 495, at I did on Tuesday, the cheese on the rim burns before the top is completely cooked. 

My family prefers the cheese to be a toasty brown on top, so after 15 minutes between the two stones, I move the pans to sit on the top stone and this toasts the cheese nicely, but without the toasting it will end up almost white, maybe a little spotting.

Skee,

Thanks for telling me about your oven setup and how you use two stones for your Buddy’s clones.  I also appreciate you telling me what temperatures you use to bake your pies.  I think I might need to go down a little in temperature for my home Buddy’s clones.  I don’t have two baking stones at home, but do have a soapstone that might work in combination with my cordierite stone.  Steve has my soapstone right now, so I have to wait to try that combination.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma,

Can you tell me whether the pan cover shown in the second photo of Reply 180 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg222029.html#msg222029 is metal (maybe aluminum) or plastic?

Peter

Peter,

The pan cover in the second phot of Reply 180 is plastic. Why did you ask that question?  For my bigger steel pan, the pan cover is aluminum.  I should be getting my new steel pans any day now, but they don't have lids.

I was thinking about what I can do to get the bottom crisper at market and don't know if it might work, but I could slide the Buddy's clones pizzas out of the pan and then put them right on the deck for a a little to crisp up the bottom crust.  I don't know if you think that might work or not. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

The reason I asked about the pan cover material is because I thought that if it was metal you could use it to keep the top from overbaking while the bottom crust was developing more color and crispiness.

If you can remove the Buddy's clone pizza from its pan onto the deck oven stone, that would be my first choice. However, I wasn't sure if there would be too much oil on the dough when you "decked" it onto the deck oven's stone. I wondered whether that oil might burn and cause a lot of smoke and/or mess up or soil the stone surface.

You mentioned that you are getting new steel pans. Are those different than the ones you now have, and from whom are you purchasing the new pans?

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

The reason I asked about the pan cover material is because I thought that if it was metal you could use it to keep the top from overbaking while the bottom crust was developing more color and crispiness.

If you can remove the Buddy's clone pizza from its pan onto the deck oven stone, that would be my first choice. However, I wasn't sure if there would be too much oil on the dough when you "decked" it onto the deck oven's stone. I wondered whether that oil might burn and cause a lot of smoke and/or mess up or soil the stone surface.

You mentioned that you are getting new steel pans. Are those different than the ones you now have, and from whom are you purchasing the new pans?

Peter

Peter,

I could use the bigger aluminum pan cover if you want me to try that.  That one is the one I purchased with my bigger steel pan at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16473.msg160865.html#msg160865

I purchased 3 seasoned Detroit style pizza pans (10x14) at http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/  I received a confirmation that the 3 seasoned Detroit style pizza pans were shipped out 2 days ago.  They were sent Priority mail so they should be here soon.   

I really don’t think the oil will hurt the deck stone and smoke.  I had bacon drippings hit the stone deck and the oil droppings never did anything to the deck stone and didn’t smoke.  They just produce carbon.  I also have lots of cheeses from reheats of slice hit the stone deck and all I have to do is rake that spot. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I purchased 3 seasoned Detroit style pizza pans (10x14).   

Norma,

Didn't you previously purchase some blue steel pans, from Northern Pizza Equipment or some other place like that? If not, what pans were you using in your home oven to make the Buddy's clone pizzas?

If your deck oven at market can handle decking a Buddy's clone pizza, I would start with that approach.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

You might note from the Slice write-up on Via 313 in Austin, TX, at http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/11/via-313-detroit-pizza-in-austin-texas.html, that they use a deck oven (Bakers Pride) and a bake temperature of 550 degrees F. Also, note the dough balls in what appears to be greased pans.

BTW, did you ever hear back on the Margherita coarse pepperoni?

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Didn't you previously purchase some blue steel pans, from Northern Pizza Equipment or some other place like that? If not, what pans were you using in your home oven to make the Buddy's clone pizzas?

If your deck oven at market can handle decking a Buddy's clone pizza, I would start with that approach.

Peter

Peter,

If I remember correctly I did purchase my 2 (8x10) steel pan and1 bigger steel pan and lids at Northern Pizza Equipment, before they stopped selling them.  I am using the same pans in my home oven. 

I think my deck oven at market can handle decking of a Buddy’s clone pizza.  I will try that at market this coming Tuesday. 

Thanks again for your help!

Norma

[norma427]

Norma,

You might note from the Slice write-up on Via 313 in Austin, TX, at http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/11/via-313-detroit-pizza-in-austin-texas.html, that they use a deck oven (Bakeers Pride) and a bake temperature of 550 degrees F. Also, note the dough balls in what appears to be greased pans.

BTW, did you ever hear back on the Margherita coarse pepperoni?

Peter

Peter,

Thanks so much for the link to the article about Via 313 on Slice.  I see they just put the dough in the steel pans.  That is interesting.  I guess they slowly press out those doughs in the steel pan.  Those pans do look like they have some kind of lard in them.  I wonder if I should try out lard, or maybe my MBF.  I see Via 313 does a cold fermented version and also bakes in a Baker’s Pride oven.  I think there is some way I can get this all to work for me, if I try out different methods.  

I did not hear back after contacting about the Margherita coarse pepperoni.  I will have to call them.  I will do that tomorrow.  

Norma

[norma427]

Peter,

I just call the different numbers and they finally transferred me to the place that could give me the Nutrition Facts for the Margherita coarse pepperoni.  The first number at the John Morrell Food Group did say they received my request for information on their contact page, but nothing was done about it so far.  I was given different numbers to call and finally the number I called was in Illinois.  They said they would try to get me the Nutrition Facts for the Margherita coarse pepperoni, but they would have to ask the plant for a request first.  I gave them my email.  Hopefully, I will be able to get that information.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Thanks so much for the link to the article about Via 313 on Slice.  I see they just put the dough in the steel pans.  That is interesting.  I guess they slowly press out those doughs in the steel pan.  Those pans do look like they have some kind of lard in them.  I wonder if I should try out lard, or maybe my MBF.  I see Via 313 does a cold fermented version and also bakes in a Baker’s Pride oven.

Norma,

For now, you might want to stick with oils since you are trying to replicate the Buddy's pizza. If it turns out that that won't work out well enough in your deck oven, then that might be the time to try shortening or lard.

Did you mean MFB (Made For Baking) instead of MBF? If so, that might also work to grease your pans although I believe that product is intended to be used in a baked product because of its unique attributes.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

For now, you might want to stick with oils since you are trying to replicate the Buddy's pizza. If it turns out that that won't work out well enough in your deck oven, then that might be the time to try shortening or lard.

Did you mean MFB (Made For Baking) instead of MBF? If so, that might also work to grease your pans although I believe that product is intended to be used in a baked product because of its unique attributes.

Peter

Peter,

I will stay with oils for now since I am trying to replicate Buddy’s pizza.  I also will purchase some Canola oil to try for this coming Tuesday. 

Yes, I did mean MFB.  I got my letters mixed up.  I can try it sometime later if it is only made for baked products.  I thought I recalled somewhere that maybe Craig posted the MFB might be good for frying, but could be wrong. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

You were perhaps thinking of Craig's post at Reply 19 at  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19253.msg188333.html#msg188333. I was thinking of the MFB specs at http://www.conagrafoodservice.com/ProductDetail.do;jsessionid=33758431EC0708E4DE08D2E6B1E31816?productUpc=2700073651. Although the specs for MFB don't specify use for frying, I will take Craig's word for it that that product also works well for frying.

Peter