Author Topic: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 109482 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #700 on: December 07, 2012, 10:48:12 AM »
This post is for anyone that is interested in what is going on in trying to get a sample of the Armour-Eckrich Margherita coarse grind sliced pepperoni.  I did contact Bobby two times and he had contacted the broker in Philly.  This morning Bobby helped me again and gave me the phone number for the broker in Philly.  I called and talked to Joe and he said he wasn’t the best person to talk about getting a sample in my area, but he would forward my information to someone that might be able to get me a sample of the Margherita coarse grind slice pepperoni for me to try.  I really don’t like when they ask me who my foodservice distributor is because I know they will call them.  I told Joe I know my distributor probably doesn’t carry the brand of pepperoni I want to try, but the broker will probably call them anyway.  This is a long process in trying to get a sample.

I did look at my distributors catalog and saw they carried a Pepperoni called Margherita on page 26 http://hometownprovisions.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/2011-HometownProvisions_lores.pdf and then called my distributor, but the Margherita isn’t the Armour-Eckrich brand.  Barry told me the Margherita brand that they do sell is 75.00 a case for 25 lb.  That sure is higher than I want to pay for pepperoni, but Barry told me that he thinks the John Morrell food group is who the Amour-Eckrich brand is under. http://johnmorrellfoodgroup.com/   Barry said from what he looked at on his computer maybe Sam’s club sell the Amour-Eckrich Margherita coarse pepperoni, but he wasn’t sure.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #701 on: December 07, 2012, 07:44:29 PM »
I received a call from another broker today (Keith) and we talked about me getting a sample of the coarse grind pepperoni.  Keith said he would send me an email.  This is the email I received a little while ago from Keith.

Good Evening Norma,

It was a pleasure chatting with you earlier this evening. When you have a chance please provide me the address as we discussed for delivery of samples at your convenience. I truly appreciate your interest John Morrell Foods. You will see the Margherita Coarse Sliced Pepperoni is the best around.

Besides your home address if you could please provide the address of your Pizza Shop, Farmers Market and possibly your Friends Restaurant you said may have interest in the product as well. This way I can follow up with a visit ( Have Lunch ) and possibly show other products that may be helpful to your business.

Once again I thank you for your interest and look forward to doing business with you soon.

Merry Christmas !!

Thank you,
Keith

I did tell Keith I am a very small pizza business so also told him Steve might be interested in some of their products for his Airstream.  Steve might kill me.  :-D  I sure would be nervous if I had to go to lunch with Keith.

At least I believe though all of this that I now probably will get a sample of the Armour-Eckrich coarse grind pepperoni to look at and try on my Detroit style pizzas.  Keith kept saying today when I talked to him that it was The John Morrell pepperoni.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #702 on: December 07, 2012, 07:55:59 PM »
Norma,

That would br nice if you are finally able to sample the Marghertia coarse grind pepperoni. At the same time, you might be able to confirm whether Buddy's is still using that product.

BTW, the Carando pepperoni you have tried is also a John Morrell product: http://johnmorrellfoodgroup.com/foodservice-page/companies/carando. If you are able to get a sample of the Margherita product, you might be able to compare it with the Carando pepperoni if you still have some of that product left.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #703 on: December 07, 2012, 08:32:47 PM »
Norma,

That would be nice if you are finally able to sample the Marghertia coarse grind pepperoni. At the same time, you might be able to confirm whether Buddy's is still using that product.

BTW, the Carando pepperoni you have tried is also a John Morrell product: http://johnmorrellfoodgroup.com/foodservice-page/companies/carando. If you are able to get a sample of the Margherita product, you might be able to compare it with the Carando pepperoni if you still have some of that product left.

Peter


Peter,

I will be glad if I am finally be able to sample the Marghertia coarse grind pepperoni.  There have been a lot of phone calls and emails to finally get to this point of maybe getting a sample.  It will all be worth it if I might be able to confirm whether Buddy’s is still using that product.  As I posted before, Steve and I really couldn’t taste the Buddy’s pepperoni a lot either when it was under the cheese on the pizza, but when tasting a slice separately the pepperoni was really good, with somewhat of a bite after eating it.  I wonder how many brands of pepperoni are out there that Buddy’s might use if they don’t use the Marghertia coarse grind pepperoni. 

I downloaded the product list for the Pizza toppings from your link and saw the Carando pepperoni that Steve had purchased for me.  I didn’t know the Carando pepperoni was a John Morrell product, but it is very good.  I don’t have any of the Carando pepperoni left, but the supermarket near Steve sells the Carando pepperoni.  Either I will ask Steve to pick me up a few more sticks, or will go there myself and purchase some. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #704 on: December 08, 2012, 09:16:51 PM »
Norma,

Out of curiosity, when you and Steve had the real Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza recently, did you sample a part of the crust all by itself, that is, without anything else on it and, if so, could you taste the salt?

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #705 on: December 08, 2012, 11:06:26 PM »
Norma,

Out of curiosity, when you and Steve had the real Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza recently, did you sample a part of the crust all by itself, that is, without anything else on it and, if so, could you taste the salt?

Peter


Peter,

I didn’t try to isolate part of the crust to taste, but I didn’t think it was as favorable as the crusts I have been making on this thread.  I tried to taste the Buddy’s pizza little by little and tried to savor each bite.  I sure don’t know if not a lot of flavor in the crust was because of the crust being half-baked or not.  The cardboard liner that was under the half baked Buddy’s pizza was greasy though.  I had thought about how I could try to tell what that oil was that Buddy’s used, but thought there was no way I was going to figure that out.  I did try to rub my finger over the cardboard and taste it, but there was no taste.  Also, I would believe Buddy’s crust would taste better right out of the oven at Buddy’s because of it partly frying in the steel pan.

Steve did post though in Reply 553 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg225660.html#msg225660 that he isolated a part of the crust on the Buddy’s pizza and found it not to have much flavor at all.

I am curious why you asked.  Is that a reason for asking if Steve and I could taste the salt in the crust?

Norma
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #706 on: December 09, 2012, 10:51:44 AM »
I didn’t try to isolate part of the crust to taste, but I didn’t think it was as favorable as the crusts I have been making on this thread.  I tried to taste the Buddy’s pizza little by little and tried to savor each bite.  I sure don’t know if not a lot of flavor in the crust was because of the crust being half-baked or not.  The cardboard liner that was under the half baked Buddy’s pizza was greasy though.  I had thought about how I could try to tell what that oil was that Buddy’s used, but thought there was no way I was going to figure that out.  I did try to rub my finger over the cardboard and taste it, but there was no taste.  Also, I would believe Buddy’s crust would taste better right out of the oven at Buddy’s because of it partly frying in the steel pan.

Steve did post though in Reply 553 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg225660.html#msg225660 that he isolated a part of the crust on the Buddy’s pizza and found it not to have much flavor at all.

I am curious why you asked.  Is that a reason for asking if Steve and I could taste the salt in the crust?


Norma,

I intentionally did not tell you why I was asking about the salt in the Buddy's crust because I did not want to bias your response or Steve's response. However, yesterday I went back to the Buddy's Nutrition data at http://www.buddyspizza.com/nutrition.asp?Category=3 to do a sodium analysis. All I was looking for was to see if I could get an idea as to whether Buddy's uses a lot of salt or a little salt in its dough used to make the basic square pizzas. For my analysis, I looked for the smallest and simplest component of a Buddy's pizza. That component is a single slice of a Buddy's square cheese pizza.

If you look at the Buddy's Nutrition data, you will see that a single slice of a Buddy's square cheese pizza contains 403 mg of sodium. To put that number into perspective, it is equivalent to 0.173 teaspoons of salt. For a full 4-square pizza with four slices, the total sodium content would be 1612 mg. That is equivalent to 0.693 teaspoons of salt. That would be for all sources of sodium: the brick cheese, the sauce, the flour and the dough. To do another comparison, a slice of a Papa John's cheese pizza with a surface area similar to that of a single slice of Buddy's cheese pizza has 720 mg of sodium. So, if the Buddy's Nutrition data is to be believed, there is not a lot of salt in a Buddy's cheese pizza and quite possibly little or none in the crust if the following analysis is anywhere near correct.

You will recall that we were told by Buddy's (see Reply 470 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg220496.html#msg220496) that it uses approximately 2 ounces of brick cheese for each slice. Elsewhere, we read that Buddy's uses 15 ounces ("almost 1 lb", according to Buddy's) for its larger 8-square pizza. If we extrapolate that amount of cheese to a single slice, it is 1.875 ounces of brick cheese. Brick cheeses can contain varying amounts of sodium, through the addition of varying amounts of salt. For the Foremost brick cheese, for 1.875 ounces, the amount of sodium is 1.875 x 180 = 337.5 mg. According to the Nutrition Facts for the Eddie's brick cheese that you used and presented at Reply 72 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg220464.html#msg220464, the corresponding amount of sodium would be 1.875 x 160 = 300 mg. That is in line with a generic brick cheese as noted at the SelfNutritionData website at http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/4/2.

The next step of the analysis is to examine the sodium content for the Buddy's sauce. If Buddy's is still using Stanislaus tomato products, and if we assume that a single slice of a Buddy's cheese pizza uses one ounce of sauce, the amount of sodium (in the form of salt added to the tomatoes) for that one ounce of sauce might range from 60-75 mg for the types of Stanislaus tomato products that we believe Buddy's may be using. However, if Buddy's is using a Stanislaus tomato paste, like the one at http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Tomato-Paste.pdf, the sodium levels could be considerably less, especially once water is added. I might add here that the sauce analysis does not assume that more salt is added to the tomato products than what is already present in the cans of the tomato products themselves. Of course, if we assume that one slice of a Buddy's cheese pizza has more than one ounce of sauce on it, then the sodium number attributable to the sauce will increase accordingly. But, as will be evident below, the use of more sauce is not likely to move the sodium needle much.

The final step of the analysis is to examine the sodium content of the flour. For the Occident flour that you have been using, and the amount you have been using, I would estimate that the sodium content for the flour is about 3.3 mg. As you can see, it is quite small in relation to the other ingredients.

Now, if we start subtracting the sodium contents of the cheese, sauce and flour at the one-slice level from the 403 mg number given in the Buddy's Nutrition data, using just about any combination of the individual numbers I have given above, we end up with a minuscule amount of sodium that would be present in the dough at the one-slice level. If we then multiply the final sodium content for one slice by four to get to a full 4-square pizza, the amount of sodium when converted to salt is still minuscule. It might be no more than around 1/8 teaspoon. To be clear, that is for the entire dough ball used to make a 4-square pizza, no matter the actual weight of the dough ball.

So, unless my calculations are seriously wrong or flawed in some way, or else the Buddy's Nutrition data on the sodium is way off, my calculations suggest that there may no salt in the Buddy's dough. At first blush, that might come as a shock to some but we know that there are commercial pizza doughs that contain no salt, including, for example, the Malnati's and Gino's East deep dish doughs. In our case, we have always "assumed" that the Buddy's dough contains salt. This morning I did some more research to see if salt was specifically mentioned by Buddy's anywhere as being used in their dough and I came up empty. All that Buddy's has said is that it uses no sugar or oil in its dough. Since Buddy's often touts the health aspects of its pizzas, I might have thought that it would emphasize a low sodium content of its crust if such were true but I found no such claim. But, then again, I never saw such a claim from Malnati's or Gino's East about their crusts either.

At this point, perhaps the best way to test whether my analysis is correct is to make a Buddy's clone dough without any salt and taste the finished crust.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #707 on: December 09, 2012, 01:47:52 PM »
Norma,

I intentionally did not tell you why I was asking about the salt in the Buddy's crust because I did not want to bias your response or Steve's response. However, yesterday I went back to the Buddy's Nutrition data at http://www.buddyspizza.com/nutrition.asp?Category=3 to do a sodium analysis. All I was looking for was to see if I could get an idea as to whether Buddy's uses a lot of salt or a little salt in its dough used to make the basic square pizzas. For my analysis, I looked for the smallest and simplest component of a Buddy's pizza. That component is a single slice of a Buddy's square cheese pizza.

If you look at the Buddy's Nutrition data, you will see that a single slice of a Buddy's square cheese pizza contains 403 mg of sodium. To put that number into perspective, it is equivalent to 0.173 teaspoons of salt. For a full 4-square pizza with four slices, the total sodium content would be 1612 mg. That is equivalent to 0.693 teaspoons of salt. That would be for all sources of sodium: the brick cheese, the sauce, the flour and the dough. To do another comparison, a slice of a Papa John's cheese pizza with a surface area similar to that of a single slice of Buddy's cheese pizza has 720 mg of sodium. So, if the Buddy's Nutrition data is to be believed, there is not a lot of salt in a Buddy's cheese pizza and quite possibly little or none in the crust if the following analysis is anywhere near correct.

You will recall that we were told by Buddy's (see Reply 470 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg220496.html#msg220496) that it uses approximately 2 ounces of brick cheese for each slice. Elsewhere, we read that Buddy's uses 15 ounces ("almost 1 lb", according to Buddy's) for its larger 8-square pizza. If we extrapolate that amount of cheese to a single slice, it is 1.875 ounces of brick cheese. Brick cheeses can contain varying amounts of sodium, through the addition of varying amounts of salt. For the Foremost brick cheese, for 1.875 ounces, the amount of sodium is 1.875 x 180 = 337.5 mg. According to the Nutrition Facts for the Eddie's brick cheese that you used and presented at Reply 72 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg220464.html#msg220464, the corresponding amount of sodium would be 1.875 x 160 = 300 mg. That is in line with a generic brick cheese as noted at the SelfNutritionData website at http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/4/2.

The next step of the analysis is to examine the sodium content for the Buddy's sauce. If Buddy's is still using Stanislaus tomato products, and if we assume that a single slice of a Buddy's cheese pizza uses one ounce of sauce, the amount of sodium (in the form of salt added to the tomatoes) for that one ounce of sauce might range from 60-75 mg for the types of Stanislaus tomato products that we believe Buddy's may be using. However, if Buddy's is using a Stanislaus tomato paste, like the one at http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Tomato-Paste.pdf, the sodium levels could be considerably less, especially once water is added. I might add here that the sauce analysis does not assume that more salt is added to the tomato products than what is already present in the cans of the tomato products themselves. Of course, if we assume that one slice of a Buddy's cheese pizza has more than one ounce of sauce on it, then the sodium number attributable to the sauce will increase accordingly. But, as will be evident below, the use of more sauce is not likely to move the sodium needle much.

The final step of the analysis is to examine the sodium content of the flour. For the Occident flour that you have been using, and the amount you have been using, I would estimate that the sodium content for the flour is about 3.3 mg. As you can see, it is quite small in relation to the other ingredients.

Now, if we start subtracting the sodium contents of the cheese, sauce and flour at the one-slice level from the 403 mg number given in the Buddy's Nutrition data, using just about any combination of the individual numbers I have given above, we end up with a minuscule amount of sodium that would be present in the dough at the one-slice level. If we then multiply the final sodium content for one slice by four to get to a full 4-square pizza, the amount of sodium when converted to salt is still minuscule. It might be no more than around 1/8 teaspoon. To be clear, that is for the entire dough ball used to make a 4-square pizza, no matter the actual weight of the dough ball.

So, unless my calculations are seriously wrong or flawed in some way, or else the Buddy's Nutrition data on the sodium is way off, my calculations suggest that there may no salt in the Buddy's dough. At first blush, that might come as a shock to some but we know that there are commercial pizza doughs that contain no salt, including, for example, the Malnati's and Gino's East deep dish doughs. In our case, we have always "assumed" that the Buddy's dough contains salt. This morning I did some more research to see if salt was specifically mentioned by Buddy's anywhere as being used in their dough and I came up empty. All that Buddy's has said is that it uses no sugar or oil in its dough. Since Buddy's often touts the health aspects of its pizzas, I might have thought that it would emphasize a low sodium content of its crust if such were true but I found no such claim. But, then again, I never saw such a claim from Malnati's or Gino's East about their crusts either.

At this point, perhaps the best way to test whether my analysis is correct is to make a Buddy's clone dough without any salt and taste the finished crust.

Peter


Peter,

I find it interesting what lengths you go to try and reverse engineer pizzas.  The sodium analysis for a regular Buddy’s cheese pizza is something that I would have never thought of, or I could not have been able to have done.

Thanks for putting the 403 mg of sodium into perspective to a slice of Buddy’s pizza along with the data for the cheese and sauce and the small amount in the flour.  I can see by you explanations that if the Buddy’s Nutrition data is to be believed they might be little or no salt in the crust, in comparison to a Papa Johns cheese pizza. 

I see that if Buddy’s is using the Stanislaus tomato paste the sodium levels could be considerably less, especially when the water is added.  I don’t know about Steve, but to me the extra sauce with the basil had a much better taste than the sauce on the Buddy’s pizza I purchased.  Maybe they might be using the Stanislaus Full-Red on their regular pizzas without any added salt.  I will have to taste the Full-Red sauce when a little water is added and nothing else. 

I can see that the sodium content for the flour is very low at 3.3 mg in relation to the other ingredients. 

I also can see if you subtract the sodium contents of the cheese, sauce and flour at the one-slice level from 403 mg. number given in the Buddy’s Nutrition data, you can come up with a minuscule amount of sodium at the one-slice level. 

It is interesting from your calculations that you think that may be no salt in Buddy’s dough.  That was somewhat of a shock to me to hear that.  I didn’t know that Malnati’s and Gino’s East deep dish doughs didn’t have any salt in them. 

If you want me to make one dough ball without salt for this coming Tuesday I can do that.  Should it be an emergency dough ball?  I would think maybe the skin in the pan would rise faster without the addition of salt, but don’t really know.  I don’t recall ever trying a dough without salt before.

I didn’t see anywhere on the Nutrition Facts where the bread sticks are listed for Buddy’s, but I recalled this picture of Mary Heller carrying the breadsticks in the trays.  Maybe if we knew what those Nutrition Facts were you could be positive if no salt, or only a little salt is added to Buddy’s dough.  Do you have any ideas of how to find out about those bread sticks? 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #708 on: December 09, 2012, 02:38:37 PM »
Norma,

It is interesting from your calculations that you think that may be no salt in Buddy’s dough.  That was somewhat of a shock to me to hear that.  I didn’t know that Malnati’s and Gino’s East deep dish doughs didn’t have any salt in them.

After my last post, I went back and looked at the sodium numbers for several of the other pizzas that Buddy's sells, especially those that seem to have the same amount of brick cheese. I saw nothing to suggest that there is any salt in the dough or, if there is, it is minuscule. For those pizzas, it appears that the amount of brick cheese is the same and that the sauce is also the same, albeit applied without weighing. In those cases, it looks like everything that is to make up the rest of the pizzas is put on top of the sauce. The specialty pizzas I looked at included the Detroiter, Gourmet Veggie, Original Veggie, Sicilian, Super and The Florine Mark.

One of the things to keep in mind is that the Buddy's pizzas, much like the Chicago deep-dish style pizzas, use a lot of cheese. That alone increases the salt contribution and may offset the fact that there may be little or no salt in the dough. Also, in the case of the Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza, and also their pizzas with other meats and other types of cheeses, the meats and other cheeses add a fair amount of salt also. Some of the members who attempted to make Malnati-style pizzas found that they preferred some salt in the crust. Others did not even notice that the real Malnati crusts did not include salt.

If you want me to make one dough ball without salt for this coming Tuesday I can do that.  Should it be an emergency dough ball?  I would think maybe the skin in the pan would rise faster without the addition of salt, but don’t really know.  I don’t recall ever trying a dough without salt before.

I think we would learn a lot from a test dough without salt. You are correct that the dough is likely to rise faster without the regulating effect of the salt but if the dough is an emergency dough, which I recommend, you may not notice an overly dramatic rise in the dough over the course of a couple of hours. But, I might be wrong on this, so the results should be instructive.

I didn’t see anywhere on the Nutrition Facts where the bread sticks are listed for Buddy’s, but I recalled this picture of Mary Heller carrying the breadsticks in the trays.  Maybe if we knew what those Nutrition Facts were you could be positive if no salt, or only a little salt is added to Buddy’s dough.  Do you have any ideas of how to find out about those bread sticks?  

When I first saw that the Buddy's Nutrition data was posted on the Buddy's website, and seeing that the data was not what I was hoping for, one of the first things I did was to look to see if there was any nutrition data on the breadsticks. Like you, I found none. Maybe what we saw Mary Hellers carrying in the pans in the photo you referenced were strips of dough for something other than breadsticks. When I looked at the Buddy's menu (http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Carryout101.pdf), I saw reference to fresh bread (fresh bread basket) but not to breadsticks.  

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #709 on: December 09, 2012, 03:10:50 PM »
Norma,

After seeing many references to breadsticks in Yelp reviews, I went back and checked some of the other Buddy's menus. It looks like some of the Buddy's stores offer breadsticks under Buddy Bread: http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Carryout110.pdf. The description is Fresh baked breadsticks brushed with garlic butter and sprinkled with Parmesan cheese. Served with a side of Buddy Bread sauce. The above menu is for the Buddy's Point Plaza location. That is where Mary Hellers was once the manager, but no longer.

If the breadsticks were included in the Buddy's Nutrition data, we would not have been able to learn much about them because of the garlic butter and Parmesan cheese. You would want data on the naked breadsticks.

Peter


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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #710 on: December 09, 2012, 03:43:03 PM »
Norma,
 
After my last post, I went back and looked at the sodium numbers for several of the other pizzas that Buddy's sells, especially those that seem to have the same amount of brick cheese. I saw nothing to suggest that there is any salt in the dough or, if there is, it is minuscule. For those pizzas, it appears that the amount of brick cheese is the same and that the sauce is also the same, albeit applied without weighing. In those cases, it looks like everything that is to make up the rest of the pizzas is put on top of the sauce. The specialty pizzas I looked at included the Detroiter, Gourmet Veggie, Original Veggie, Sicilian, Super and The Florine Mark.

One of the things to keep in mind is that the Buddy's pizzas, much like the Chicago deep-dish style pizzas, use a lot of cheese. That alone increases the salt contribution and may offset the fact that there may be little or no salt in the dough. Also, in the case of the Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza, and also their pizzas with other meats and other types of cheeses, the meats and other cheeses add a fair amount of salt also. Some of the members who attempted to make Malnati-style pizzas found that they preferred some salt in the crust. Others did not even notice that the real Malnati crusts did not include salt.
I think we would learn a lot from a test dough without salt. You are correct that the dough is likely to rise faster without the regulating effect of the salt but if the dough is an emergency dough, which I recommend, you may not notice an overly dramatic rise in the dough over the course of a couple of hours. But, I might be wrong on this, so the results should be instructive.
When I first saw that the Buddy's Nutrition data was posted on the Buddy's website, and seeing that the data was not what I was hoping for, one of the first things I did was to look to see if there was any nutrition data on the breadsticks. Like you, I found none. Maybe what we saw Mary Hellers carrying in the pans in the photo you referenced were strips of dough for something other than breadsticks. When I looked at the Buddy's menu (http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Carryout101.pdf), I saw reference to fresh bread (fresh bread basket) but not to breadsticks.  

Peter


Peter,

That sure is interesting that since you have gone back and looked at the sodium numbers for the several other pizzas (especially the ones that seem to have the same amount of brick cheese) that Buddy’s sells and you saw nothing to suggest that there is any salt in their dough, or if it is it is minuscule.  That sure would be a good revelation is we find out that no salt is added to Buddy’s dough.

I didn’t think about all the cheese uses Buddy’s pizzas to take up the salt taste just like the Chicago deep-dish style pizzas.  I can see that alone increases the salt contribution.  What confuses me about that is when I first tried the brick cheese on a Buddy’s attempt the cheese really didn’t taste that salty to me.  At least not as salty as my one mozzarella.      

I recall trying a Malnati deep-dish pizza and went back to where I posted the formulation I used at Reply 241 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg90120.html#msg90120 to see if I added any salt in that formulation.  I did use salt, but not a lot.  I never missed a lot of salt in that pizza to my recollection.  

I see on Buddy’s menu where it says under Homestyle Pasta it comes with a fresh bread basket.  I missed that before when looking at Buddy’s menu.  That is probably what Mary Heller was carrying.  

Hopefully, on Tuesday I will be able to taste if the emergency Buddy’s clone attempt without any salt in the crust tastes like the Buddy’s pizza Steve and I ate or not.  I got a nasty head cold on Friday and my nose is nothing but never ending running and sneezing.  I also have a cough and can still taste, but don’t know what will happen until Tuesday.  Maybe Steve can fill in for me on being the taste tester if my cold isn’t better until then.

Do I need to do another formulation on the expanded dough calculation tool, or do I just omit the Kosher salt in the formulation I have been using for an emergency dough?  Do you think I should use my last of my brick cheese, or doesn’t that really matter if we just taste the crust?

Norma
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 03:48:47 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #711 on: December 09, 2012, 03:47:53 PM »
Norma,

After seeing many references to breadsticks in Yelp reviews, I went back and checked some of the other Buddy's menus. It looks like some of the Buddy's stores offer breadsticks under Buddy Bread: http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Carryout110.pdf. The description is Fresh baked breadsticks brushed with garlic butter and sprinkled with Parmesan cheese. Served with a side of Buddy Bread sauce. The above menu is for the Buddy's Point Plaza location. That is where Mary Hellers was once the manager, but no longer.

If the breadsticks were included in the Buddy's Nutrition data, we would not have been able to learn much about them because of the garlic butter and Parmesan cheese. You would want data on the naked breadsticks.

Peter



Peter,

Thanks for going back and checking on other Buddy’s menus and seeing some Buddy’s locations offers what is call Buddy Bread.  I can understand that even if the breadsticks were included in the Buddy’s Nutrition data, we would not have learn much about them because of the garlic butter and Parmesan cheese.

Norma
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #712 on: December 09, 2012, 04:06:05 PM »
Norma,

I didn’t think about all the cheese uses Buddy’s pizzas to take up the salt taste just like the Chicago deep-dish style pizzas.  I can see that alone increases the salt contribution.  What confuses me about that is when I first tried the brick cheese on a Buddy’s attempt the cheese really didn’t taste that salty to me.  At least not as salty as my one mozzarella.
There are variations in sodium content from one type of cheese to another and from one brand to another, so it is possible that the Eddie's brick cheese you have been using has a lower sodium (salt) content than the mozzarella cheese you are using.   

Do I need to do another formulation on the expanded dough calculation tool, or do I just omit the Kosher salt in the formulation I have been using for an emergency dough?  Do you think I should use my last of my brick cheese, or doesn’t that really matter if we just taste the crust?
I suggest that you use the expanded dough calculating tool with the 9-ounce dough ball size and omit the salt. That will change the numbers a bit to reflect the omission of the salt. I don't see any need for you to use the rest of your brick cheese since you and/or Steve will be tasting the crust to see if it is like the crust of the recent cheese and pepperoni pizza that you recently purchased from Buddy's.

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #713 on: December 09, 2012, 04:47:22 PM »
Norma,
There are variations in sodium content from one type of cheese to another and from one brand to another, so it is possible that the Eddie's brick cheese you have been using has a lower sodium (salt) content than the mozzarella cheese you are using.   
I suggest that you use the expanded dough calculating tool with the 9-ounce dough ball size and omit the salt. That will change the numbers a bit to reflect the omission of the salt. I don't see any need for you to use the rest of your brick cheese since you and/or Steve will be tasting the crust to see if it is like the crust of the recent cheese and pepperoni pizza that you recently purchased from Buddy's.

Peter

Peter,

I understand that the Eddie’s brick cheese might have a lower sodium content than the one mozzarella cheese I am using.  Thanks for mentioning that.  I really don’t know where the Nutrition Facts are for that mozzarella (the Bella Fran part skim mozzarella, but that mozzarella does taste more salty to me).

I will omit the salt on the expanded dough calculating tool for a 9 ounce dough ball since you suggested doing that. 

Norma
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #714 on: December 09, 2012, 05:19:07 PM »
I understand that the Eddie’s brick cheese might have a lower sodium content than the one mozzarella cheese I am using.  Thanks for mentioning that.  I really don’t know where the Nutrition Facts are for that mozzarella (the Bella Fran part skim mozzarella, but that mozzarella does taste more salty to me).


Norma,

If you are using the Bella Francesca part-skim shredded mozzarella cheese as shown at http://hometownprovisions.net/2011/08/featured-product-shredded-cheeses/, that cheese has a sodium content of only 130 mg per ounce. That is very much on the low side.

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #715 on: December 09, 2012, 06:03:11 PM »
Norma,

If you are using the Bella Francesca part-skim shredded mozzarella cheese as shown at http://hometownprovisions.net/2011/08/featured-product-shredded-cheeses/, that cheese has a sodium content of only 130 mg per ounce. That is very much on the low side.

Peter


Peter,

I do use the Bella Francesca part-skim mozzarella, but I do grate it and don’t get it pre-shredded, but I guess the sodium levels would be the same.  I think the Bella Francessca I use is on page 10 of Hometown Provisions catalog. http://hometownprovisions.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/2011-HometownProvisions_lores.pdf  Sometimes I used whole milk Bella Francesca if they are out of part-skim.  I can’t keep up with all the new products Hometown Provisions keeps adding, but find the Featured Product-Shredded Cheeses you found interesting.  I wonder how the one by Savoldi with part-skim mozzarella, provolone and white cheddar would work on a Detroit style pizza.  That almost sounds like the Grande blend I tried and liked.  Thanks for finding that link to how much sodium the Bella Francesca has.  I guess the Bella Francesca just is a good tasting cheese, with not as much sodium as I though it might have.

BTW, I sure don’t know if what I did will do us any good or not, but I just sent another reply to where I had sent the question after Buddy’s flour.  I basically wrote that I decided to purchase a half-baked Buddy’s pizza to have shipped and then told them about how much my great-granddaughter and enjoyed the pizza. Besides what else I said I asked about the two sauces and also said I couldn’t taste a lot of salt in the crust. I said being older and health conscious, I was happy that I couldn’t taste a lot of salt in the crust.  I also told Buddy’s that their flour didn’t bother me in the least.  I asked about the salt and two sauces and included a picture of the unbaked Buddy’s pizza, a picture of the baked Buddy’s pizza and a picture of the sauce that I said both my great-granddaughter and I enjoyed.  I have no idea if they will answer me, but at least I tried.

Norma
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #716 on: December 10, 2012, 05:56:50 PM »
I got a return email from Buddy’s while I was at market today.  Although Buddy’s told me the ingredients are proprietary, Buddy’s did say they thought the extra pizza sauce they sent me was the regular pizza sauce they use on their pizzas.  I guess if it was the regular pizza sauce it sure tasted different after it was baked, or either it was because it was half baked to begin with.  That still has me stumped because the extra sauce sure did taste different than what was on Buddy’s pizza. 

This is the email I received today.

Norma,

Thank you for your order. We are pleased to hear you enjoyed your pizza and had no trouble with the ingredients we use.

When pizzas are ordered, they automatically come with our regular pizza sauce. You could substitute our Tomato Basil sauce for our regular pizza sauce if you choose to do so (this sauce has fresh basil and garlic in it). The picture of extra sauce resembles our regular pizza sauce.

Regarding the ingredients in our pizza, our recipes are proprietary and are not published for the public at this time.

We look forward to your next visit.

Happy Holidays!

I mixed the Buddy’s clone dough in the Hobart today starting with the flat beater and mixed for about 3 ˝  minutes, or until all the dough was on the flat beater.  I only took a video right at the end of the mixing.  I then changed over to the dough hook and although the dough did want to climb the dough hook a couple of times, I think it turned out okay.  There is also a part of a video of the Hobart mixing with the dough hook until the dough was finished mixing.  This method in the Hobart is about exactly the same thing I used in my Kitchen Aid mixer when I mix enough dough to use a dough hook after the flat beater.  Both times the Hobart was on speed 1.

The dough was then divided, scaled, balled, oiled, then put into plastic bags.

At least I can still taste and my nose went from running constantly to being better today.  If my nose wouldn’t have stopped running constantly from my cold, I wouldn’t have gone to market tomorrow because of possibly infecting other people.  I will make the emergency dough ball tomorrow morning without the salt.  I already did do the calculations on the expanded dough calculation tool and will weigh out the flour and IDY tonight.

These are the three cheeses I am using right now for my Detroit Style pizzas, with the Nutrition Facts.  I used more AMPI mild white cheddar than the mozzarellas.

These are the two videos and the pictures.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGGGjsawdIE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGGGjsawdIE</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GJuVT5Dg6Y" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GJuVT5Dg6Y</a>


I also talked to Joe Widmer about the samples of brick cheese he was going to send me this morning.  Joe asked me if it was okay if he sent them after the holidays because this is their busiest part of the year.  I told Joe it was fine with me if the samples were sent after the holidays.  Joe told me to remind him about the samples after the holidays.

Norma
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #717 on: December 10, 2012, 05:59:52 PM »
Norma
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #718 on: December 10, 2012, 07:40:46 PM »
Norma,

At least you got confirmation from Buddy's on the sauce sample that you received with the Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza. Just like uncooked cheeses taste different than the same cheeses baked on a pizza, it is quite possible that if you use some of your Buddy's sauce sample on a baked pizza, it may very well taste different than in the unbaked state.

When I first researched the Buddy's salt issue, I thought that there might be a way to approach Buddy's on that matter, possibly in the form of a question framed in the context of a low-sodium dietary restriction tied to a high blood pressure condition. However, I couldn't think of a way of doing this without an analysis that was technical and mathematical in nature. I concluded that such an approach would have been viewed by Buddy's with great suspicion. That is why I suggested just making a Buddy's clone dough without salt.

I found the Nutrition Facts for the Bella Francesca whole milk mozzarella cheese to be very interesting, because of the low sodium content, only 105 mg per ounce. That is considerably lower than other brands of mozzarella cheese. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen either a low-moisture part-skim or a whole milk mozzarella cheese with a sodium content that low. But, in my case, all of the mozzarella cheeses I have seen have been supermarket or specialty store cheeses, not foodservice brands.

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #719 on: December 10, 2012, 08:26:52 PM »
Norma,

At least you got confirmation from Buddy's on the sauce sample that you received with the Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza. Just like uncooked cheeses taste different than the same cheeses baked on a pizza, it is quite possible that if you use some of your Buddy's sauce sample on a baked pizza, it may very well taste different than in the unbaked state.

When I first researched the Buddy's salt issue, I thought that there might be a way to approach Buddy's on that matter, possibly in the form of a question framed in the context of a low-sodium dietary restriction tied to a high blood pressure condition. However, I couldn't think of a way of doing this without an analysis that was technical and mathematical in nature. I concluded that such an approach would have been viewed by Buddy's with great suspicion. That is why I suggested just making a Buddy's clone dough without salt.

I found the Nutrition Facts for the Bella Francesca whole milk mozzarella cheese to be very interesting, because of the low sodium content, only 105 mg per ounce. That is considerably lower than other brands of mozzarella cheese. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen either a low-moisture part-skim or a whole milk mozzarella cheese with a sodium content that low. But, in my case, all of the mozzarella cheeses I have seen have been supermarket or specialty store cheeses, not foodservice brands.

Peter

Peter,

Yes, I guess one thing is solved about the extra sauce, but how can anyone ever be sure.  I know when I was trying to make take and bake pizzas for market, somehow when I parbaked them, then took the pizzas home and did the rest of the bake, the sauce never tasted the same.  The sauce always tasted blander then on a fresh baked pizza.  That is one reason I gave up on trying to make a take and bake pizza at market.   Maybe I will see tomorrow if the Full-Red Pizza Sauce with Basil tastes the same on my pizzas like Buddy’s sauce did.

You are always technical in your approaches to asking questions, so I would think Buddy’s would have become suspicious.  Next thing you know you will also have yourself handicapped like I am in all my health problems.  :-D I can understand why you suggested I just try making a Buddy’s clone dough without salt to see what happens.  I am kind of anxious to see what happens. 

I never really looked at the Nutrition Facts for the Bella Francesca whole milk mozzarella cheese before, but eating it plain it is better than the Foremost Farms mozzarella in my opinion.  I did try whole milk Foremost Farms mozzarella before.  The Bella Francesca is a little more expensive than the Foremost Farms, but not by much.  I didn’t know that the Bella Francesca had a much lower sodium content before you mentioned it.  I have tried the Bella Francesca whole milk mozzarella by itself on pizzas and it is good that way too.  The Bella Francesca skim is also very good in my opinion.

Norma
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