Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 134191 times)

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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1340 on: January 29, 2013, 11:33:45 PM »
Bob,

Thanks, but I will have to wait and see what happens.  If too many customers want this style of pizza I don't know how I will keep up, or if I will have enough room to store the dough balls.  I am glad customers are liking the Detroit style of pizzas though.  It is fun to watch customers faces after they have taken a few bites of a slice.

Norma
That's wonderful Norma....the 'ol bright eyed "oh man!" factor! What we all are trying to achieve...
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Offline gschwim

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1341 on: January 30, 2013, 12:02:17 AM »
Peter,

I donít think Steve and I have noticed much of a difference between the pizzas made with a Buddyís clone emergency dough clone doughs as opposed to one made with a cold-fermented Buddyís clone doughs.

Norma     

In my experience, I haven't noticed a difference.  Peter made a separate thread ("Life in Big Bites...") for the recipe I've been using, so I won't repeat it here, but in addition to having the bulk dough rise, I've found that, as that recipe specifies, the dough only needs to sit in the pan for 10 minutes and it spreads easily, so you might not need as many pans as you might think:  If you have room for that much dough, you can leave it all in one piece, in the vessel in which you mixed/rose it and break off a chunk, weigh it and spread it out in the pan 10 minutes before you want to dress it.  So you might want to try it with your own emergency dough.

If you want separate dough balls, then you could still cut down on the number of trays by putting the balls in those aluminum stackable single-ball things or in the wide dough boxes that the Neopolitan pizza guys use, that hold six dough balls.  Well, however you want to handle it (if you do), the point is, with an emergency dough, you might not need any more blue steel pans than are necessary to allow the dough to sit in them for just ten minutes.

Gene
 

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1342 on: January 30, 2013, 12:09:11 AM »
Peter,

Customers have been asking what kind of cheese is on those Detroit style pizzas and Steve and I have been telling them, but today Steve and I decided we arenít going to tell anyone anymore what kind of cheese blend we are using.

I sure donít know, but think this style of pizza takes a lot of timing to figure out how to have this style coming out of the oven all the time.  I guess I will learn more after I make more of this style of pizza on how to become faster.  Also customers are asking for different dressings and it is hard to keep getting them coming out of the oven in time for when they want them.

Norma

Norma,

I would just tell the customers that the cheese is your own secret blend.  Why spoil a mystery?

Regarding getting the bake time right, I've been wondering the same thing.  These aren't like ordinary pizzas that sit directly on the oven floor and you can pick them up to see if the bottom is done.  I suspect that's the reason Buddy's switched to a conveyor oven:  You put the pizzas in, sequentially, at one end, each one bakes for precisely the same amount of time, at precisely the same temperature, and pop out at the other end, ready to serve.

Unfortunately, I suspect that you might not have enough room in your stand, plus I hear that those conveyor ovens are expensive.

Gene

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1343 on: January 30, 2013, 12:14:00 AM »
Bob,

Thanks, but I will have to wait and see what happens.  If too many customers want this style of pizza I don't know how I will keep up, or if I will have enough room to store the dough balls.  I am glad customers are liking the Detroit style of pizzas though.  It is fun to watch customers faces after they have taken a few bites of a slice.

Norma

Norma,

Well, if people love your pizzas so much that you can't keep up, how about opening an actual restaurant?

Gene

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1344 on: January 30, 2013, 07:55:54 AM »
In my experience, I haven't noticed a difference.  Peter made a separate thread ("Life in Big Bites...") for the recipe I've been using, so I won't repeat it here, but in addition to having the bulk dough rise, I've found that, as that recipe specifies, the dough only needs to sit in the pan for 10 minutes and it spreads easily, so you might not need as many pans as you might think:  If you have room for that much dough, you can leave it all in one piece, in the vessel in which you mixed/rose it and break off a chunk, weigh it and spread it out in the pan 10 minutes before you want to dress it.  So you might want to try it with your own emergency dough.

If you want separate dough balls, then you could still cut down on the number of trays by putting the balls in those aluminum stackable single-ball things or in the wide dough boxes that the Neopolitan pizza guys use, that hold six dough balls.  Well, however you want to handle it (if you do), the point is, with an emergency dough, you might not need any more blue steel pans than are necessary to allow the dough to sit in them for just ten minutes.

Gene
 


Gene,

I donít think I am going back to an emergency dough for a Buddyís clone.  As I commented to you before my pizza stand is very small and I would have to get up very early to mix dough before market and I donít want to have to mix more than one batch of dough on market day because there is only Steve and me working.  When the weather gets warmer in our area (can be up to 96 degrees F in the summer inside my market stand) a long day has me tired out.  Attempting emergency dough batches also creates more dirty things to wash and Steve or I have to do all the dishes by hand.  I also donít have a lot of room to stack any kind of pans or wide dough boxes in my coolers.  Regular dough boxes canít even be stacked in my pizza prep fridge.  I learned that from when I first started making pizza about what else to try instead of dough boxes and Tom Lehmann told me to use food plastic bags for my dough balls.  That is what I have been doing for my NY style dough balls since I started making pizza at my small market stand, until now when I started putting the Buddyís clone dough balls directly in the pans. 

On the practical side how would someone manage an emergency dough that is fermented in such a short time, if that the dough only need 10 minutes to rise in a steel pan?  I sure donít know, but would think there would need to be many batches of that dough made each day or the dough would become over fermented.  What happens if there are periods of not selling Detroit style pizzas. 

Norma,

I would just tell the customers that the cheese is your own secret blend.  Why spoil a mystery?

Regarding getting the bake time right, I've been wondering the same thing.  These aren't like ordinary pizzas that sit directly on the oven floor and you can pick them up to see if the bottom is done.  I suspect that's the reason Buddy's switched to a conveyor oven:  You put the pizzas in, sequentially, at one end, each one bakes for precisely the same amount of time, at precisely the same temperature, and pop out at the other end, ready to serve.

Unfortunately, I suspect that you might not have enough room in your stand, plus I hear that those conveyor ovens are expensive.

Gene


I agree it would be better to say the cheese is our own secret blend. 

Regarding the bake time, it is something you learn from watching how the doughs bake in the steel pans and also how the cheeses brown on the top.  I have been playing around with this formulation for a few months so I have learned somewhat when the Buddyís clone pizzas will be done.  At first I timed them, but now I donít have to time the bake. 

I really donít know why Buddyís changed from deck ovens to conveyor ovens, but would imagine they are easier to operate and employees donĎt need to watch the pizzas as closely.  I donít know if you saw in this thread where Peter mentioned what conveyor ovens Buddyís changed to different times.  You are right that I wouldnít have enough room in my stand for a conveyor oven and I like doing things the old-fashioned way of baking in a deck oven.  When I first was thinking about what kind of oven I wanted for my little pizza stand I had considered a conveyor oven, but wanted to bake pizzas in a deck oven after giving it more thoughts.  You are right that new conveyor ovens are very expensive.

Norma,

Well, if people love your pizzas so much that you can't keep up, how about opening an actual restaurant?

Gene



I have thought about what happens if I canít keep up with the Buddyís clone pizzas and my regular pizzas, but I am far too old to open an actual restaurant.  My late husband and I did run 3 other market stands before and also had a concession trailer that we took to other events.  I know how much work that was and sure am not going to get into all that work again.  :-D I get tired just thinking about all of that work we did before.  I had been toying with the idea of purchasing a food truck but really donít think I am up for that either.   

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1345 on: January 30, 2013, 02:15:06 PM »
These are a few of the other Buddyís clone pizzas that were made yesterday and two pictures on how the Buddyís clone dough balls looked when pressing them out in the steel pans right out of the deli case. 

The first pizza had the dressings of cheese blend first, then fresh cut basil, Italian sweet sausage, (that was cut in slices) roasted pepper strips and sauce on the top.  Evís (Steveís) Marco Pollo pizza, cheese and another cheese that ballooned on the sides some (I am not sure why that happened, but at least there wasnít sagging under the sauce).  I didnít have time to take pictures of the other Buddyís clone pizzas made yesterday.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1346 on: January 30, 2013, 02:16:44 PM »
Norma
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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1347 on: January 30, 2013, 02:41:52 PM »
Maximus yuminuss!
I like that you're experimenting with different toppings Norma....you have lucky customers.  8)
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1348 on: January 30, 2013, 02:44:23 PM »
Maximus yuminuss!
I like that you're adding some different toppings Norma....you have lucky customers.  8)

Bob,

That is something I plan more on doing is to add some different toppings on the Buddy's clone pizzas.  It is hard to do that on a NY style pizza that is mostly sold by the slices.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1349 on: January 30, 2013, 03:35:50 PM »
Evís (Steveís) Marco Pollo pizza, cheese and another cheese that ballooned on the sides some (I am not sure why that happened, but at least there wasnít sagging under the sauce).
Norma,

Did you note how much IDY you used for the last batch? From the bubbling shown in the photos, it may be that the dough was overly fermented and gassy after two days, and that is why the dough ballooned on the sides. Or possibly the pizza was baked with others and did not have uniform heat distribution.

Peter


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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1350 on: January 30, 2013, 08:17:08 PM »
Norma,

Did you note how much IDY you used for the last batch? From the bubbling shown in the photos, it may be that the dough was overly fermented and gassy after two days, and that is why the dough ballooned on the sides. Or possibly the pizza was baked with others and did not have uniform heat distribution.

Peter


Peter,

I only noted in my head how much IDY I used for the last batch and now canít recall what amount I used.  I canít see on the print out sheet from the expanded dough calculation tool how much IDY I was supposed to use (because that picture is too blurry), but when I go to market again on Friday and look at that print out sheet again I probably will recall what amount of IDY I used if you want to know how much IDY I used.  I know I didnít use a lot less IDY though.  In that one picture (2nd picture down of the dough ball in the steel pan) at Reply 1345 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg234764.html#msg234764 those bubbles were pressed down when I was finished pressing that dough the whole way in the steel pan and then that dough was tempered in the Hatco Unit.  I canít really recall if that pizza that ballooned on the sides was baked with other pizzas or not, but the pizzas in the background at Reply 1472   http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20791.msg234606.html#msg234606 didnít balloon a lot on the sides and there were 3 pizzas in the oven then.  They were the last 3 Buddyís clone pizzas of the evening.

Norma
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 08:20:37 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1351 on: January 30, 2013, 08:26:53 PM »
Norma,

It's not a big matter. I was thinking only about how much IDY you might want to use in the event you find yourself in a similar situation again where you are confronted with a longer period of cold fermentation than your standard period of cold fermentation. Whatever you used for the IDY the last time, you may need to go lower than that if you find that you need to go beyond one day of cold fermentation.

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1352 on: January 30, 2013, 09:10:36 PM »
Norma,

It's not a big matter. I was thinking only about how much IDY you might want to use in the event you find yourself in a similar situation again where you are confronted with a longer period of cold fermentation than your standard period of cold fermentation. Whatever you used for the IDY the last time, you may need to go lower than that if you find that you need to go beyond one day of cold fermentation.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me I might need to use less IDY than I did the last time if I find myself in a similar situation again.  What amount do you suggest, or should I just wait until I see if that happens again.  I talked to the one manager at market yesterday about I would like to be able to make doughs on Sunday, but know I can't do that usually.  The one manager asked if I talked to the main manager and I said I hadn't.  Really I don't want to make my Buddy's clone dough on Sunday, but would like to make my Lehmann doughs on Sunday. 

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1353 on: January 31, 2013, 08:38:30 AM »
Thanks for telling me I might need to use less IDY than I did the last time if I find myself in a similar situation again.  What amount do you suggest, or should I just wait until I see if that happens again. 
Norma,

I will wait for your report on the amount of IDY you used when you go to market tomorrow and have a chance to look at your printout.

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1354 on: February 01, 2013, 02:24:29 PM »
I looked at the print out sheet for the Buddyís clone dough when I was at market today.  I know I now used 0.28% lbs. of IDY when I weighed out the IDY last Sunday.  This is a picture of the bottom of the print out sheet.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1355 on: February 02, 2013, 03:35:31 PM »
I looked at the print out sheet for the Buddyís clone dough when I was at market today.  I know I now used 0.28% lbs. of IDY when I weighed out the IDY last Sunday.  This is a picture of the bottom of the print out sheet.
Norma,

I assume that you mean that you used 0.28% IDY, not 0.28 pounds. If so, 0.28% IDY was not a lot of yeast for a two day cold ferment. Was the dough held in your refrigerator that was not functioning properly?

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1356 on: February 02, 2013, 07:34:36 PM »
Norma,

I assume that you mean that you used 0.28% IDY, not 0.28 pounds. If so, 0.28% IDY was not a lot of yeast for a two day cold ferment. Was the dough held in your refrigerator that was not functioning properly?

Peter


Peter,

You know my math brain, but if you look at the formulation on the print out sheet I posted at Reply 1354 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg235195.html#msg235195 it was the formulation I usually use for a one day cold ferment.  I didnít change the formulation any for a two day cold ferment except the IDY, which I thought I weighed first to 0.03 lbs, then took a little out.  I thought the number on the digital scale then said 0.28 lbs.  I donít use anything but lbs. to weigh market dough ingredients at market because my scale canít weigh grams and I donít change to ounces either.  Did I put the zero in the wrong place.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1357 on: February 02, 2013, 09:12:22 PM »
You know my math brain, but if you look at the formulation on the print out sheet I posted at Reply 1354 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg235195.html#msg235195 it was the formulation I usually use for a one day cold ferment.  I didnít change the formulation any for a two day cold ferment except the IDY, which I thought I weighed first to 0.03 lbs, then took a little out.  I thought the number on the digital scale then said 0.28 lbs.  I donít use anything but lbs. to weigh market dough ingredients at market because my scale canít weigh grams and I donít change to ounces either.  Did I put the zero in the wrong place.

Norma,

I think that you meant 0.028 pounds of IDY, which converts to 0.448 ounces. That translates into a baker's percent of 0.448/68.71 = 0.652%. That makes more sense and would explain why your dough rose so much over the two-day cold fermentation period (assuming that your refrigeration equipment was properly cooling). I originally was going to suggest that you use 0.50% IDY for the two day cold ferment but you had already made the dough.

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1358 on: February 02, 2013, 09:56:00 PM »
Norma,

I think that you meant 0.028 pounds of IDY, which converts to 0.448 ounces. That translates into a baker's percent of 0.448/68.71 = 0.652%. That makes more sense and would explain why your dough rose so much over the two-day cold fermentation period (assuming that your refrigeration equipment was properly cooling). I originally was going to suggest that you use 0.50% IDY for the two day cold ferment but you had already made the dough.

Peter

Yep Peter, that is what I meant, it would have been 0.028 pounds of IDY.  Thanks for telling me that makes more sense in why the dough rose so much over the two-day cold fermentation period.  My deli case where the dough was cold fermenting is okay in temperature and is about 38 degrees F.  It was my pizza prep fridge that I just got repaired, but I didnít have any of the Buddyís clone dough in the pizza prep fridge. 

Thanks for telling me you were going to suggest that I should use 0.50% IDY.  I will try the 0.50% IDY if I find myself in a similar situation, unless you just want me to try the 0.50% IDY with a Buddyís clone dough mixed at home and then taken to market in the same two-day cold fermentation period.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1359 on: February 02, 2013, 09:59:10 PM »
Thanks for telling me you were going to suggest that I should use 0.50% IDY.  I will try the 0.50% IDY if I find myself in a similar situation, unless you just want me to try the 0.50% IDY with a Buddyís clone dough mixed at home and then taken to market in the same two-day cold fermentation period.
Norma,

That is entirely up to you. However, it might make for a reasonable test of whether 0.50% IDY is a good value to use.

Peter