Author Topic: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO  (Read 7845 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2012, 10:40:06 AM »
I found a bread flour that has a protein content of 13.2g per 100g. It's quite close to the 13.5g target I'm trying to achieve by adding VWG. Would it be wise (At a later stage probably) to experiment with bread flour or is this flour not recommended for Lehman's dough?

PM,

The bread flour is a very good choice for the NY style. Many even deem it to be better than a high-gluten flour even though many NYC pizza operators specializing in the NY style use high-gluten flour.

Peter


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2012, 01:46:24 PM »
PM, a couple thoughts on firing your WFO. This should be the simplest part of baking.

First, and by far the most important, your wood must be dry. Wet/green wood is a nightmare to burn. If you can get a big propane torch, it makes things a lot easier. I use this one: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100341111/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=propane+weed+burner&storeId=10051 Perhaps you can find something similar locally. With a torch like this, simply put some split wood (1-2cm in diameter) under your logs (split to 10-15cm or so). I usually put down a row of 4-5 smaller pieces, then another row of 4-5 pieces perpendicular to the first, then a couple of the logs perpendicular to the second row of smaller pieces then on or two more logs perpendicular to the logs below. Leave spaces between everything as you lay it out. Arranging like this allows plenty of air for the burning. The smaller logs is what you light, and they will light the larger logs.

If you canít find a big propane torch, a smaller one is better than nothing. Matches or small lighters really donít cut it. You need to be able to maintain a strong flame for a period of time. In this case, add a bunch of tinder and kindling under the stack as described above.

If you are still having trouble, you can light some charcoal as you would for your BBQ, when it is good and hot, put it in your WFO and build a fire like I described above. If your wood is dry, I guarantee that will light it right up.

As far as oven temp, it would be a good idea to get an IR thermometer to help you learn your oven Ė what floor and wall temp it bakes best at, etc. Once you get used to it, you donít need it as much. In the interim, the oven will give you a signal as to when it is ready to bake. When you light the fire, the dome will become black Ė covered in soot from the fire. As the oven heats up, this soot will burn off. Once the dome is completely white and bright (or whatever color material it is made from), it is hot enough to bake. If it has soot, it is not hot enough. Feed the fire as needed to keep it flaming.

I believe you need a rolling flame for baking. Some may disagree with this. When Iím baking, I use smaller logs on the fire (1 at a time) Ė about 5-7cm in diameter. Kg for Kg, smaller logs burn hotter than large ones.

Good luck. Let me know if I can help with any questions.

Craig
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2012, 02:01:55 PM »
Hi Pete

Today was the first time I ever used my WFO to bake pizza and it was a challenging attempt to say the least. The fire just wouldn't light and I struggled for more than 3 hours just to get a good fire going. Once I had the fire ready, I took Raquel out the fridge and left for an hour at room temp. This was approx. 22 hours in the fridge. The dough was nice and soft and the tops were a bit dry.

From there, I dumped the dough ball into flour and then began to stretch it out with my hands. This wasn't too easy as the dough kept springing back and then eventually the centre began to become thin while the edges were thick. I eventually got to 10" by using a rolling pin.
I picked up my skin and put it onto my stainless steel peel which was lightly floured. I topped with sauce (by the way, thanks for giving me some direction with regards to the sauce, I followed one of the posts and my sauce came out very nice, better than any other attempt) and then added cheese. I then shook my peel front and back only to find that the pizza was stuck. Now I started to panic and just couldn't get the pizza to move freely on the peel so I  couldn't  unload it into the oven. Eventually I had to improvise and put my peel with the pizza ontop into the oven hoping the pizza would start a bake and then loosen for me to move it onto the floor.
Eventually it did loosen and I manged to get it onto my oven floor. I baked it till the cheese was nice and melted. I removed it easily and served to my guests who I invited at the last minute.

Honestly I wasn't too impressed with my attempt and can attribute that to many things, one being my inexprience to stretch, bad quality firewood so oven wasn't stoking hot, inexperience with peel. I found my pizza didn't puff up at the edges, the centre which was thinner than the edges was not as tender as I expected it. The taste though was not too bad but a little gummy if that sounds right.

I contemplated long and hard about the way forward and I came to the conclusion that I'm trying to run before I can even crawl. I need to take a step back and find my footing. To start with, until I have gained a little experience, I won't be making pizza for anyone just yet. Secondly, I need to practice my stretching abilities and thirdly I'm going to make just plain pizza with no topping whatsoever, maybe just some butter after its baked - this will give me good feel of how to handle the dough and baking process.

Lastly, I think for now raquel is a little out of my league and needs lots of pampering ... Hehe so I was wondering what recipe do you suggest I work with - maybe Lehmans style?

Thanks
PM

How much did your dough rise from the time you first balled it to the time you opened it to make pizza?

If your pie gets stuck on the peel again, here are a couple tricks to get it unstuck - 1) lift up the edge and blow under it, but be careful, you can float it right off your peel like a hovercraft, or 2) run a piece of dental floss under it.

I would encourage you to keep using the WFO regularly even if you are also experimenting in your oven. It's all about experience, and you get than by making mistakes as much as doing things right. At a minimum, use sauce when you practice. Bare dough performs very differently than a topped pizza - for one, it will get huge bubbles. It also handles differently on a turning peel (you have a turning peel, right?) Keep with it and you will be baking like a pro in no time. Also, keep in mind that the dough that works best in your oven may not be the same as the dough that works best in your WFO.

CL
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Offline PizzaManic

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2012, 06:06:54 PM »
Hi

Txcraig1 - thanks for the tips on managing my WFO. I'll be sure to use them - I have to agree about the lighter and matches, it's like trying to light a fire by rubbing 2 sticks together - I'll definitely need to look up a butane lighter.
I would have to also invest in a Therm. I'm basically thumb sucking and guessing whether the temp is right. As for wood, that's my challenge, i can't seem to find a reliable supplier but i have been given some contacts so will be looking them up.

Pete, I'm glad to hear bread flour is recommended. I will first finish the little AP flour i have and then do some experiments with bread flour to see how it goes.
I just made my dough half an hour ago and this time i took things 1 step at a time. Here's how i went about it and I made sure the camera was close to even take photo's of the measured out ingredients and then finally the dough ball.

I used the formula you provided in the following post http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg15669.html#msg15669 using AP flour, VWG and Whey except that i had to skip the Whey because i didn't have any on hand and i dropped the Hydration to 58% as a result of my last dough being a little sticky.. Using the Expanded Dough Calculator, i came up with the following numbers for a 10" pizza.

Flour (100%)*:
Water (58%):
IDY (0.25%):
Salt (1.75%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (1%):
Total (161%):
147.39 g  |  5.2 oz | 0.32 lbs
85.49 g  |  3.02 oz | 0.19 lbs
0.37 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.12 tsp | 0.04 tbsp
2.58 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.46 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
1.47 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.32 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
237.3 g | 8.37 oz | 0.52 lbs | TF = 0.106575

*Using the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator, i used 141.7292 Flour + 5.5971 VWG to up my AP flour of 11.8% to HG Flour of 14.2%


1) I measured out all the ingredients except for my water which was left in the fridge until i needed. I sieved the flour and VWG.
2) Once I was ready to mix everything together, i took the water out the fridge and quickly measured it before placing it in my mixing bowl together with salt and dissolved it.
3) I mixed the VWG and Flour and gradually added it to my mixture whilst on lowest speed using dough hooks. At this point, i found that the dough hooks weren't reaching the very bottom of my mixing bowl so there was a lot of flour still unmixed and I had this very dry dough ball which didn't incorporate all of the flour into itself. Using a tablespoon, i gathered all the loose bits and pieces of dough including quite a lot of unmixed flour and incorporated it with the spoon into the dough ball. I let the dough hooks do it's job again but it just wasn't catching the dough ball and tossing it around as it did with my last raquel attempt. When i grabbed the dough in my hand i realized how dry it was and possibly less hyrdrated even when i tried to hand knead it i had difficulty. I then took the decision to add 2.5tsp water and i now had a moist dough ball which ended up a little too sticky so i took some flour using the tips of my 4 fingers and thumbs and tossed it over the dough ball and hand kneaded it till i found the ball more malleable. At this point i put it back in the machine and switched on my dough hooks with lowest speed - this time the dough hook was able to grab the ball but still not tossing and kneading it around - i found now that the ball was sort of stuck and stretching it apart from 1 part of the bowl to another. I just decided the machine is not going to work as such so i Hand Kneaded it.
4) I added the oil and hand kneaded it into the dough for a short while - eventually the dough was tacky but not sticky.
5) Dough ball was weighed in at 234grams, just 3.3g short of the target weight so in that regard i was fairly happy.
6) I measured the temperature and it was 73F - quite below 80F so i left it out for a short while and then placed it into a oiled tray and oiled the top and sides of the dough ball as well.
7) It was placed at the very back of my fridge taking a total of 20 minutes from the time I added water to my mixing bowl to the time i placed it into the fridge. I will remove and bake it tomorrow evening.

I'll keep you guys posted. Just regarding the hydration, when I attempted the Raquel recipe, i used 60% hydration and the dough ball pulled away neatly from the bowl into 1 neat ball but just by reducing it 2%, it affected it drastically. The Raquel attempt didn't use any VWG though.

Thanks
Regards
PM
Regards Mo

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2012, 09:43:03 PM »
Pooh, I light my WFO with one match and walk away.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2012, 11:23:09 PM »
Pooh, I light my WFO with one match and walk away.

Pooh or Poof?
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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2012, 11:31:03 PM »
Kind of a slow crackle, actually.

Offline Ev

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2012, 11:08:38 AM »
Sorry to further hijack but I couldn't resist.
 Pooh? I love Pooh!

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2012, 02:13:25 PM »
Sorry to further hijack but I couldn't resist.
 Pooh? I love Pooh!
Oh no...not him again!  :'(
Sorry, but that bowl of "stuff" he's stirring jus grosses me OUT!!  >:(
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Offline Ev

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2012, 03:33:48 PM »
What? You don't like cookies?

Offline PizzaManic

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2012, 05:28:28 PM »
Hi Guys
I have great news. I am so excited i just couldn't wait to feedback.

My attempt today with the Lehman NY Style Dough was extremely successful in my opinion - okay not extremely as there's a lot more work that needs to be done to perfect it.

1) I started at about 8:15PM and removed the dough from the fridge. I measured the dough temp and it was at 46F so my fridge was keeping it nice and cool.
    In total, the dough was left in the fridge for 21 hrs. At this point, the dough was atleast 1.75 times the original size.
    The oven was switched on to 240C for approx 1.5 hours.

2) Dough was left in it's container, quite heavily oiled (oops that's my fault as you can see in the pic) and left at room temp for about for 1.5 hours. After the 1.5    hours elapsed, the dough spread out a little further and was now definitely double its original size.

3) Once i was ready and fired up to start stretching (and not forgetting nervous that this is going to be another mess-up), i removed the dough ball from it's container (Temp at this point was 66.9f) and found that it was quite firm, not saggy or sloppy, slightly sticky but i guess that's because of the fermentation and i dunked it into my flour.I then sprinkled quite a lot of flour on my tabletop and let the dough rest on it whilst i sprinkled flour over the top of the dough and the sides.

4) I then started to stretch by first using my palm and tips of my fingers to flatten the center and then work my way outwards. I then started using the palms of both my hands to stretch the dough by moving my hands away from each other in opposite directions whilst turning in a clock wise direction alternately flipping the dough over and doing the same on the other side. Now, i should note that the dough was extremely extensible. I never quite understood what Pete-ezza always meant when he described dough as extensible, i knew the meaning of the term but not in actual context but now i fully understand. This dough was just not springing back, it would just stretch outwards and stay there. I was really enjoying my self at this point, being the first time i actually could stretch the dough without screwing it up. I then flipped the dough onto my knuckles and let gravity take over but then i had to be very careful, it was just stretching away from me and i could have probably stretched this dough into a 20" cracker style pizza but i then focused again at the task on hand so i had to contain my self and get the dough back onto my tabletop, check the size which was 10" and flour my peel before tossing the dough onto it. The dough was moving very freely on the peel with no chance of it sticking but then i went to grab my camera again and when i got back found the dough a teeny weeny bit stuck but with a little jolting of my peel back and forth, it loosened again.

5) My oven by now was well upto temp and the stone (left at the last rack in my oven) was definitely heated to optimum temp. Jolting my pizza on the peel back to front whilst walking towards the oven is what i was doing to avoid any sticking and when i got to the oven, i quickly opened it and slid the pizza off the peel onto the stone without any trouble.

6) The timer was set to 8 minutes but i kept my oven light on and monitored the baking throughout. At about 3 minutes, bubbles already started to appear at the top of the base which i was ecstatic about - that just didn't happen with my WFO attempt on Raquel. I opened and the pizza was loose from the stone and  the underneath was still white so left it for another 2 minutes.

7) Checked at 5 minutes and found some browning at the bottom and the top so i knew it was close to completion. Left it for another minute before removing it and then I cut a slice.


Now, you can probably hear it in my voice (I mean fingers ... hehe) that i was very happy with the attempt. I guess what i was happy about is the fact that i could hand stretch the dough from start to finish without any rolling pin. Pete-zza probably will remember previous attempts and disasters - from pizza's ending up like baguettes to pies being tossed all over the floor - i had my good share of fun but this was beyond fun, it was a fulfilling attempt.

I must thank each and every one for the encouragement and great tips - it really helped a lot. Here's a few questions i wish to better this attempt with my next attempt in a few days time hopefully.

a) In terms of dough handling, I think i may have found the break point for my dough. Now by break point, i mean the formula to make my dough overly extensible. I'm sure with Pete-zza's assistance, he'll be able to tell me what to do to to strike the perfect balance between extensibility and spring-back.

b) I cut out a slice of the finished pizza (Hmm not actually pizza, it was just plain dough baked in a oven) and tasted it but this is what i found.
   1) It wasn't tender like how i was expecting it to be. You had to bite into it and then yank it away from your mouth to get a piece off.
   2) You would probably notice the big bubbles i had. It looked really nice but i expected the rim to be more puffy with small bubbles in all the puffiness of the dough rather than having one large big bubble.
   3) The pizza was quite on the stiff chewy side, now i dont quite mind chewy, i know that is what NY Style is all about but this was a different kind of chew. If i were to compare it, on a scale of 1 to 10 - Chewing gum is at 1 on the scale and cardboard is at 10 - my pizza was probably at 8 so almost close to stiff cardboard.
   4) The pizza was not moist, it was more closer to the dry side.
   5) You will notice the one pic below has me showing off the slice i cut - that slice had a big bubble on it so i opened up the bubble to show the inside of the pizza and as can be seen, the inner part of the pizza didnt puff up, it's all quite densed and together.
   6) I refer to the same bubble mentioned in no.5, i bit into the bubble only, meaning i left the bottom section of the pizza slice and the bubble itself was very crispy as you will probably notice it's quite browned as well. Now this crisp wasnt the exact crisp i was looking for, it was more towards the side of hard crisp with a large degree of stiffness whereby you had to pull your hand away from your mouth while biting to get a piece in your mouth whereas i would have preffered a crisp similar to chips found in a bag of potato chips.
   7) Lastly, i found underneath and on top of my pizza, there was quite a lot of loose flour probably the bench flour. I guess i used a little bit extra flour but I think for this attempt i was a bit afraid so i ended up using more than required, with more experience, i'll lessen this.

Other than the 8 points above, i feel i have progressed significantly and with a few more tries I will strike the right balance between everything i'm looking for.

Thanks and i really look forward to hearing from you guys
Regards
PM
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 05:34:54 PM by PizzaManic »
Regards Mo

Offline PizzaManic

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2012, 05:34:01 PM »
More Pictures ...
Regards Mo

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2012, 05:43:24 PM »
PM,
 Congratulations on making a dough you could stretch/work with.  :chef: But as TXCraig intructed, without having anything on top of your dough(even just some sauce)that crust is going to act much differently...so it is difficult to address your concerns.
Bob
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Offline PizzaManic

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2012, 01:18:54 AM »
Hi CB

Oh yes, I remember seeing that by Txcraig and my initial plan of attack was to find the right formula to successfully stretch the skins. Now that i am at a stage where the dough is overly extensible, I'm sure it'll be easier for me work my way and strike the perfect balance between extensibility and elasticity.

On my next attempts, I will definately add some sauce - any tips on what else I can add on top that would simulate a fully topped pizza but keep costs to a minimum since after I scrutinize the results of the attempt, I don't know what to do with the baked skin.

Thanks
PM
Regards Mo

Offline Ev

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2012, 06:57:18 AM »
Just make a pizza and eat the darn thing! :-D

Offline norma427

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2012, 08:50:19 AM »
PM,

I am glad you could open your dough ball and skin as well as you did.    

I donít believe you truly would be able to know how your crust will be without toppings of some kind.  If you left just the plain opened dough in the oven for 6 minutes without any dressing I can understand the baked skin might be too chewy or tough.  When I was making Paniniís (for sandwiches) the skins ballooned-up really fast and my bake time was less than 2 minutes.  If I would have left the skins in the oven for much longer they would have become tough and chewy.  At Reply 397 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg95671.html#msg95671 I took a video of making a Panini with my regular preferment Lehmann dough.  You can see if you are interested in how fast that dough skin was finished baking.  If you want to see when I did an experiment with just making the dough with NY water and regular water and just baking the skins that post is at Reply 291 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg91827.html#msg91827  I think that post with the first picture will show you how just baking skins will make the crust just like your baked skins and those crusts werenít really good, but just to taste if a difference in NY water and regular water was better.  

I am not suggesting for you to make a preferment Lehmann dough, because I only make a 1 day Lehmann dough for market now.  If you scan though that preferment Lehmann dough thread you can see what those pizzas look like though.  

Norma
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 08:53:57 AM by norma427 »

Offline PizzaManic

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2012, 09:53:48 AM »
Just make a pizza and eat the darn thing! :-D
Wow! Why didn't i think of that - best tip so far  :P :-D ;D

Hi Norma
Thanks for the tips - I have been through some of your posts and you really WOW! me. I remember when you joined the forum, I wasn't a member for too long myself at the time, and now when i look at what you produce, you have really come a long way and best of compliments to you.

I will take a look at some of the posts you mentioned especially the one about the Panini as my Pizza(less) pizza   ;D is along the same lines. I suspected the same as you regarding the long bake time - indeed the dough was very tough and chewy almost like i had microwaved it for 10 minutes  :o

I hope to not continue baking topless  :-D for very much longer - the purpose initially was to find the cause of my skins not opening up while stretching however now that i have found the point where it over stretches, I hope to fix that in a few more attempts with Pete-zza's help and then it's back to toppings and doing pizza the way it should be done - Gooooey cheese and yummy toppings  :chef: :pizza:

Please keep the comments coming - it's really helpful even yours Ev  :D

Take Care
Regards
PM
Regards Mo


Offline Jet_deck

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2012, 10:30:45 AM »
- any tips on what else I can add on top that would simulate a fully topped pizza but keep costs to a minimum since after I scrutinize the results of the attempt, I don't know what to do with the baked skin.

Thanks
PM

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Offline PizzaManic

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2012, 11:21:16 AM »
Jet_deck, that's an excellent idea - I'm gonna definately consider that one in my next attempt.

Thanks
PM
Regards Mo

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2012, 12:24:56 PM »
You can also just use a layer of dried red beans, no sauce, then dump them off and reuse them a couple of times.


http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11391.0;attach=46458;image
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 12:37:16 PM by Tscarborough »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2012, 02:31:07 PM »
You can also just use a layer of dried red beans, no sauce, then dump them off and reuse them a couple of times.


http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11391.0;attach=46458;image
And then you'll have a parbaked skin that you can top and make a cracker pizza out of !!  ;D
Tom's suggestion really is not full of beans...I think they call that "blind baking", technique used in pie/pastry making.

But I believe the moisture from pizza sauce is really what you need on there....oh, an some Raman noodles.  8)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 02:33:14 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline PizzaManic

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2012, 02:38:13 AM »
Hi Guys

Yesterday I took another stab at Lehmans NY Style and Raquel.

I will post the formula, method and end results a little later but for now I took peek into the fridge to see how much the dough has risen (After about 8 hours in the fridge - both doughs were about 76f temp before I put them in fridge) and I found that the dough hasn't risen much if not at all by the look of it. I now remembered a neat trick that Pete-zza once showed me with poppy seeds and I should've done that to track expansion but never the less I'll do so with next attempts.

For now though, I just wanted to gather some insight as to why the doughs would not have risen much based on the following differences from the last time I made them.

1) Last weeks attempt was made using a brand new package of IDY and placed straight into the freezer after use. When it was time to use it for this attempt, it came straight out the freezer, measured and used almost immediately in the dough mix.

2) The Lehman dough was made using water straight out the fridge and the Raquel was made using room temp water yet both doughs came out at 76F temp.

I just hope it all rises well but any advice is welcome.

Thanks
Regards
PM
Regards Mo

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2012, 02:56:23 PM »
PM,

Since the Lehmann NY style dough is a low-yeast dough, it would not be at all unusual to see little, if any, rise while in the refrigerator for only eight hours. A single dough ball in the refrigerator will cool off quite quickly and, as a result, not ferment that quickly. If you were a professional making a hundred dough balls, they would cool down more slowly and ferment faster as a result. I have seen Lehmann doughs go twenty four hours and not see much of a rise. That usually isn't fatal. You can let the dough ferment longer while in the refrigerator and/or you can temper the dough at room temperature for whatever time it takes for the dough to show signs of life by expanding in volume, getting softer, etc.

The poppy seed trick is a good one because it forces you to pay closer attention to your dough. You will also learn quite a bit about how a dough rises with time.

Peter

Offline PizzaManic

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2012, 09:02:10 AM »
Hi Guys

My fears and suspicion of my yeast being bad was unfortunately true.
Pete-zza's Poppy Seed trick as well as proofing my yeast in a little bit of water before use will be an integral part of future pizza making attempts. I can't imagine what it feels like when someone make a large batch of dough, say 50 balls and there's a problem with the yeast,  :(

None the less, at least for my experiments in particular, not all bad came out from the experience. Here's the events that lead up to the final product.

Formula - Lehman NY Style - 10"

Flour (100%):
Water (60%):
Salt (0.25%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (1%):
Total (161.25%):
147.77 g  |  5.21 oz | 0.33 lbs
88.66 g  |  3.13 oz | 0.2 lbs
0.37 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.08 tsp | 0.03 tbsp
1.48 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
238.28 g | 8.41 oz | 0.53 lbs | TF = 0.1070165
*Flour (144.4966) + VWG (3.2734 or 1.306 tsp or 1tsp + 2 X 1/8tsp + just less than half of 1/8tsp)

The method was very similar to that found in the following post http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22099.msg225585.html#msg225585
Once again my dough quantity was very small for my dough hooks to initially start the mixing so there was a lot of intervention from me with my handy spatula to mixed the dough until it balled nicely and then the dough hooks manage to knead for me. I did find that before adding the oil, the dough is a bit dry but once the oil is added it all nice - is there any particular reason for not adding the oil with the water?

Dough temp at the time was about 70F and left in the fridge for approx. 19 hours and then left at room temp. for a further 3.5 hours. As soon as the dough came out the fridge, i tried the poppy seed trick to track expansion over the next few hours but the seeds never moved 1 bit so there further proved the yeast was bad. As i mentioned, all didn't end badly as it gave me the opportunity to test my stretching abilities and all i can say is WOW! I'm getting better at this (And i can toss now - yipppeeeeeee  ;D ). The dough was similar to my previous attempt with excellent extensibility but little more elasticity than the previous attempt - if i were to exemplify it into a % i would say 90% Extensibility and 10% elasticity. I don't know if dropping the VWG or the bad yeast contributed to this small difference but time will tell with future experiments. As for the baking, it was topped with Ketchup and some noodles (Thanks ChicagoBob). Bake time was about 3 minutes but no spring in the dough at all once removed he oven, the crust was extremely dense with no bubbles whatsoever and i was very careful with stretching the dough.



Raquel Style - 10"
Flour (100%):
Water (65.33%):
IDY (0.23%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (2%):
Honey (1%):
Total (170.56%):
104.18 g  |  3.67 oz | 0.23 lbs
68.06 g  |  2.4 oz | 0.15 lbs
0.24 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.08 tsp | 0.03 tbsp
2.08 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.37 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
2.08 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.46 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
1.04 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.15 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
177.68 g | 6.27 oz | 0.39 lbs | TF = 0.0797993

Same method as posted here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22099.msg225060.html#msg225060
Again, dough was a small quantity so the initial flour/brine/yeast mixture was done with a spatula and left for 20mins autolyze. The rest was a mixture of hand kneading, spatula and dough hooks. I had a lovely smooth cohesive slight sticky dough ball. Fridge for the same amount of time as Lehman Dough with same temp once removed from fridge.
Dough ball stretched open beautifully. Had better balance of extensibility and elasticity than lehman style - 75% extensibility 25% Elasticity - Not sure what contributed to this but difficult to say until my next attempt when the yeast activates. I'd like to eventually get 65% Extensibility 35% elasticity.
Dough was easily tossible and then scooped onto the peel. Then it got stuck but thanks to TXCraig for the blowing tip - it works wonders and loosens the skin instantly and it does fly like a flying sauce  :-D
Baked for 3 minutes but no spring at all. Dough was dense and no bubbles in the crust.


But a good learning experience in deed. I went out and bought some new packages of IDY - just out of curiosity, whats the best way to store my yeast because the package that went bad on the my last attempt was in fact a new package that was opened 2 weeks back and then put straight into the freezer after use.

I'm hopefully going at it again tonight so will keep you guys posted but feel free to give me any tips you may have

Take Care
Regards
PM
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 09:12:23 AM by PizzaManic »
Regards Mo

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My Attempt at NEO NY Style in WFO
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2012, 07:53:59 AM »
PM,

It appears that you forgot to include the yeast in the Lehmann dough formulation you posted. I assume that you did not forget to use it when you made the dough.

For the reason why the oil is not mixed in with the water, see the second paragraph of Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21635.msg218669/topicseen.html#msg218669.

Peter


 

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