Author Topic: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications  (Read 11755 times)

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Offline henkverhaar

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2013, 06:18:19 AM »
Everything needed on one page, that is as simple it gets, thanks! I have a source to get milk straight from the farm so i really would like to test making it from the scratch. How much mozzarella can you make from one gallon of milk ?
Dunno, don't use imperial weights and measures ;-)

I usually start with 2 L of full-fat pasteurized milk, 4 g of citric acid (don't use calcium chloride), and 0.1 g of (microbial) rennet - more than recommended, but I can't easily weigh less than that, and it doesn't really hurt... That result in approximately 200 g mozz in the end, after melting, stretching and roping.


Offline henkverhaar

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2013, 06:22:59 AM »
I tried making it from scratch a while ago and.... things didn't go well. I think I yielded like 6 ounces or something terrible haha. However how much could you get? You should be able to get a pound off mozz plus you should be able to make ricotta too from it. I however couldn't get that much. The results don't justify the means for a simple home based pizza maker IMO. I'd go with curds.
I beg to differ - it's dead easy, almost a no-brainer. Ricotta is not really an option though, unless you liberally add milk to the whey - or you make mozz for the entire neighbourhood. Cost-wise though, it's probably not the smart thing to do; in my case, homemade mozz is about 2/3 the cost of store-bought mozz.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2013, 07:13:10 AM »
I usually start with 2 L of full-fat pasteurized milk

One of the biggest reasons I stopped making mozz curd from scratch is because using pasteurized milk yielded results far below the taste and fat level of mozz procured from Calabro, a company here in NE that makes fresh mozz. I could find raw milk, but the cows were Jersey and the fat content and color were the wrong type for making mozz. It was straw colored.

Larry - thanks for the insight. I am going to see if I can source grande curd and see what the cost difference is.

John

Offline henkverhaar

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2013, 07:26:38 AM »
One of the biggest reasons I stopped making mozz curd from scratch is because using pasteurized milk yielded results far below the taste and fat level of mozz procured from Calabro

Well, it yields mozz that is significantly better than what you get in any old supermarket here in Holland; finding raw milk mozz, or bufala mozz is hard work, and costly, although it is by no means impossible. So in my opinion, I can make a significantly better mozz from milk I can readily buy than the mozz that I could readily buy instead, but I'm not claiming that it is the best mozz you'll ever find ;-)

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2013, 02:38:17 PM »
Well, it yields mozz that is significantly better than what you get in any old supermarket here in Holland; finding raw milk mozz, or bufala mozz is hard work, and costly, although it is by no means impossible. So in my opinion, I can make a significantly better mozz from milk I can readily buy than the mozz that I could readily buy instead, but I'm not claiming that it is the best mozz you'll ever find ;-)
Raw milk can be very hard to find and expensive over here. I've read on several cheese making sites that pasteurized milk doesn't make very good mozz...I don't know.
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Offline henkverhaar

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2013, 03:03:00 PM »
Raw milk can be very hard to find and expensive over here. I've read on several cheese making sites that pasteurized milk doesn't make very good mozz...I don't know.
Actually, I was under the impression that it's more the fat content of raw vs 'standardized' milk, but the pasteurization itself does alter the constituents somewhat. It makes a significant difference for all cheeses, so much so that some varieties of raw-milk cheese have all but died out in the EU, thanks to just one of many over-the-top EU food safety regulations.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2013, 03:10:40 PM »
Actually, I was under the impression that it's more the fat content of raw vs 'standardized' milk, but the pasteurization itself does alter the constituents somewhat. It makes a significant difference for all cheeses, so much so that some varieties of raw-milk cheese have all but died out in the EU, thanks to just one of many over-the-top EU food safety regulations.
I have seen where cultures were added at the beginning of mozz making procedure and assumed that was being done because of the use of pasteurized milk, no?
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2013, 03:14:17 PM »
I have seen where cultures were added at the beginning of mozz making procedure and assumed that was being done because of the use of pasteurized milk, no?

Cultures or rennet?
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Mal

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2013, 03:21:57 PM »
I don't think cultures are the primary coagulating agent in a mozzarella make. Surely the aim is a mild cheese not a lactic one?

Mal

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2013, 03:23:47 PM »
Also you'd lose too much calcium in the whey if you were using just cultures. Which would not be conducive to a strong curd.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2013, 03:28:00 PM »
I don't think cultures are the primary coagulating agent in a mozzarella make. Surely the aim is a mild cheese not a lactic one?

It is in that case - just another way to get there - probably preferred by folks who want everything as natural as possible.

It has nothing to do with correcting for pasteurization of the milk however. It's not a process that can be reversed. Pasteurization damages the proteins in the milk which causes the curds to be smaller; this is why pasteurized milk does not work as well as raw. UHT pasteurized milk will not work at all for cheese because the proteins are too denatured.
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Mal

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2013, 03:31:27 PM »
But if you look at the kit/method that Bob links to, it includes rennet. Or are we talking about something else here?
I've never heard of a culture-only mozzarella make.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 03:37:37 PM by Mal »

Offline henkverhaar

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #63 on: February 16, 2013, 04:17:47 PM »
I don't think cultures are the primary coagulating agent in a mozzarella make. Surely the aim is a mild cheese not a lactic one?
As far as I remember mozzarella is made from a sour milk base. Most current (home) recipes call for citric acid - but not enough to curdle the milk (if you do that, you get an acid-curdled cheese, like a paneer) - and lactic acid could also be used, but traditionally, a bacterially-soured milk was used.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #64 on: February 16, 2013, 04:23:21 PM »
But if you look at the kit/method that Bob links to, it includes rennet. Or are we talking about something else here?
I've never heard of a culture-only mozzarella make.

Yor're right. I guess it just replaces the citric acid.
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Offline henkverhaar

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2013, 04:24:27 PM »
Also you'd lose too much calcium in the whey if you were using just cultures. Which would not be conducive to a strong curd.
Which is probably the reason that most recipes call for added calcium chloride...

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #66 on: February 16, 2013, 08:35:34 PM »
I beg to differ - it's dead easy, almost a no-brainer. Ricotta is not really an option though, unless you liberally add milk to the whey - or you make mozz for the entire neighbourhood. Cost-wise though, it's probably not the smart thing to do; in my case, homemade mozz is about 2/3 the cost of store-bought mozz.

Wow- "dead easy, A no brainer"? I can't see how those terms could be applied to making mozzarella, unless you're trying to be insulting. It's not toast. And where do you live that milk costs like $2 a gallon?


Offline Ev

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2013, 09:08:43 PM »
Wow- "dead easy, A no brainer"? I can't see how those terms could be applied to making mozzarella, unless you're trying to be insulting. It's not toast. And where do you live that milk costs like $2 a gallon?

Actually, it's not that hard to make. Making it good?, well that might be another story. I've made decent mozz from raw milk, but not better than I can buy. Maybe I just need more practice.
 FWIW, I can buy fresh raw milk here for $2.50 a gallon.

Online norma427

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2013, 09:23:35 PM »
I posted about going to a 30 minute mozzarella course at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10096.msg88072.html#msg88072  with making the mozzarella from raw milk.

I also made raw milk mozzarella with tdeane’s help at Reply 205 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7561.msg84735.html#msg84735 and the following posts.

I might try to make fresh mozzarella again but my mozzarella really wasn’t as decent as I can purchase. 

Norma

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2013, 09:41:13 PM »

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2013, 10:39:00 PM »
I've spent a lot of time on cheese forums in the past trying to make good mozz from scratch.  Even with my high end pH monitoring equipment from wine making consistency is still hard to come by.  If you can get it, non homogenized milk is a huge plus, path riser or not.  It you start with raw milk you will pasteurize it in the cheese making process, it is the non homogenized aspect of raw milk that is key.  You will also need to add cultures generally used in Swiss cheese production to reduce the residual sugar and help eliminate the over browning that is generally the last hurdle most home makers struggle with.
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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2013, 10:42:11 PM »
Anything is easy...if you already know how.

Offline henkverhaar

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #72 on: February 17, 2013, 02:29:33 AM »
Wow- "dead easy, A no brainer"? I can't see how those terms could be applied to making mozzarella, unless you're trying to be insulting. It's not toast. And where do you live that milk costs like $2 a gallon?
Yeah, I was afraid it would come over like that after I posted it. Wasn't meant to be. But, yes, I do mean that the process of making mozzarella-type cheese from milk is easy, and can be done in a home kitchen with no special requirements other than rennet. You could substitute lemon juice for citric acid, and all the rest is standard kitchen equipment. Now I did not imply that making really great mozz is dead easy, but as said before, really great mozz is hard to find commercially also, at least over here.

And over here I pay 69 eurocents for a litre of full fat milk (not the most expensive 'brand', not the cheapest either) in one of the major supermarket chains in Holland. that translates to $3.48 per US gallon, at the current exchange rate.

Henk

Offline SquirrelFlight

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2013, 09:04:40 PM »
I'm no expert, but I can parrot what I've read.

Pasteurization isn't the problem; "ultra-pasteurization" is.  "Normal" pasteurization is a (relatively) low-temperature process that leaves most of the proteins and such intact.  Ultra-pasteurization is done at a much higher temperature which: reduces the time needed for pasteurization (meaning higher volume-processing), increases the shelf-life of the resulting milk, and denatures enough of the proteins in milk to make it virtually useless in a cheese-making context.

Most supermarket milk is labeled "ultra-pasteurized", but I don't know if it is required by law (can an ultra-pasteurized milk just be labeled "pasteurized"? I don't know).

Offline thezaman

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Re: Buying vs Making Mozzarella; Cost and Time implications
« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2013, 09:23:52 PM »
 after this thread started i got my three month health dept inspection. the first thing my inspector asked was my method for making cheese?i told her i buy it and she said your advertisements say it is house made. she went into the ohio laws on raw milk and i had to explain that i use curd from Wisconsin and i cook it in house. she wanted to know the full procedure. cooking temperatures the cooling procedure. after all was done she was happy with the method and signed off on it. i know that if it was from milk not curd i would have had a hard time getting approval.