Need help after first time with ischia...

[Mlasalle]

Hello!  I need some analysis by this team (long time lurker).

I have a WFO and I had my recipe dialed in.  It was so consistent and produced great pies.  Although I would add some salt on the finished pie (I have not experimented upping the salt content in my recipe).

1000g Caputo 00
650 water
2 tbls sea salt
2 tbls evoo
1/4 t ady

I autolyse the water, yeast and 75% of the flour for 20 min.  Then, I add the evoo and go on 2 for 2 min. While adding the rest of the flour.  I then add the salt.  Turn it to 6 for about 5 min.  Rest for 5 min.  Turn it to 2 for a minute and the crank it 6 for at about 5 more minutes.  I let rise for an hour.  Then I put it in an bowl, lightly oiled, and let rise for 24 hours in fridge.  Stretch and fold 4 times.  Let sit for 24 hours again in fridge.  Divide into 260g dough balls.  Fridge for 12-24 hours.  Take out an hour before ready to cook.


So here is the question.  I decided to experiment with ischia for the first time.  I used

1000g Caputo 00
600g water
16g salt (2tbl)
2tbl evoo
180g ischia (100% hydration)

I followed the process of mixing as above.  When finished in the KA, it was definitely wetter and less "formed".

After the 1 hr rise, I did 12 hours in the fridge (it rose).  Stretch and fold, and then another 12 hours in the fridge (it rose again).  I balled it and could tell it wasn't "firm".  Immediately after balling I put in fridge and the pretty much collapsed.  I took out hours later to sit on the counter and they became worse.  Flat as pancake with even a little fluid leaked from them. 

I tried to make pizzas about 5 hours later and the dough was super stretchy and unworkable.  Crash and burn in the wfo, too.

Obviously the ischia starter is the new variable (everything else is virtually the same as my tried and true recipe).  What did I do wrong?  Ingredients?  More salt?  Too much starter?  Not enough kneading?  Over fermenting?  Starter was off?

I need help so I can isolate the right variable for next time.  Much appreciated.

ML

[Bill/SFNM]

Try less starter, maybe 3%-5%, and don't ferment/proof in the refrigerator.  Also, oil or other fats are not typically used in Neapolitan/WFO doughs.

[andreguidon]

you also need to use 2.8~3% salt, 1.6% is to low.

[Mlasalle]

Thanks.   Very helpful.  Just so I know, is this reaction over fermentation? 

Also, I'm interested that you brought up the refrigeration issue.  It works fine with ADY, but the Ischia would get crushed by it? 

Thanks again.  Appreciate as I get out of my comfort zone.

[Bill/SFNM]

Commercial yeast works across a much wider range of temps and conditions. I like to ferment Ischia ~62-65F for best flavor development.

[blackshifter]

Commercial yeast works across a much wider range of temps and conditions. I like to ferment Ischia ~62-65F for best flavor development.

I agree with Bill on this. If you ever made bread with a warm rise of 8 to 12 hours on an Ischia starter, it packs a very strong sourdough flavor compared to cold rise. I keep mine in a wine cooler at 56F.

[TXCraig1]

I agree with Bill on this. If you ever made bread with a warm rise of 8 to 12 hours on an Ischia starter, it packs a very strong sourdough flavor compared to cold rise. I keep mine in a wine cooler at 56F.

What did you do to get sour flavor out of Ischia in bread after 8-12 hours? I've only gotten sour flavor out of it one time, and it took 60 hours of fermentation.

[blackshifter]

I followed Ed Wood's recipe for breads (Classic Sourdoughs) with a sourdough yeast. Those recipes call for a crazy amount of starter.

I tried his pizza recipe a few times and did a cold rise instead of the warm rise and there was a huge difference in flavor. I mean this guy did sell the ischia starter right? I figured he would know better than anyone on how to get the most of a sourdough flavor.