Author Topic: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza  (Read 99218 times)

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Offline Randy

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2006, 10:26:58 PM »
Made this recipe for supper tonight is was very, very good.  DKM, I added one teaspoon of salt per your follow up post. Since I didn’t have a 13” pan I used two 9” cake pans.  Will buy a 13” pan next time we go shopping.  This is a keeper.

Looks like Buzz’s past post is right on the very short knead time.

Randy


Offline DKM

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2006, 09:48:21 PM »
I'm really learning to like this recipe.  Although I am going to add 1/2 tsp of salt when I make it.

DKM
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Offline buzz

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2006, 09:38:20 AM »
Randy--

The short knead time is the key to restaurant-style Chicago deep dish!

Offline DKM

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2006, 07:38:35 PM »
And yet some of the reastaurants don't use that short of a knead time.

DKM
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Offline buzz

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2006, 12:05:11 PM »
Which ones?

The more you knead the dough, the more gluten forms, and the more bread-like the crust becomes. if you go to any of the big Chicago deep dish chains, their pies are very biscuit-like, and so a short knead.

I remember how frustrated I was when I first started trying to duplicate authentic Chicago deep dish, because I was relying on improper information from Jeff Smith, Pat Bruno, etc., who specified an 8-10-minute knead. It always came out like bread--not at all like what I had in the restaurant. The clue finally came from Tom Lehmann (who worked for years in the Chicago deep dish industry)--he said, "Your mother wouldn't knead her pie dough for 10 minutes, would she? If you want to make Domino's, then knead for a long time--if you want to make Chicago deep dish, keep it short!"

And that was the answer (along with the oil content)!

Offline DKM

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2006, 07:42:48 PM »
I have heard that Uno's and Gino's have a 5-7 minute knead time. 

After watching them spin the dough on "Pizza in Paridse" at Giordano's I wonder about them.  Try that with a biscut or pie dough and it would fall apart.

DKM
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Offline buzz

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2006, 12:22:06 PM »
If you did a 5-7 minute knead time with a Uno's or Gino's-style dough, you would get bread!

 I have watched the workers at Giordano's sheet their dough, then toss it across the room with no problem, and I know they have a very short knead time.

Offline DKM

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2006, 04:24:52 PM »
Yet, I have been told a person in the know that is what Uno's and Gino's uses.

DKM
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Offline buzz

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2006, 05:50:09 PM »
Then they have a different means of production, because if you knead that long, you will get bread!

The only thing I can think of is that perhaps your contact is referrng to the mixing time required, as opposed to the kneading time. With my little ball of dough at home, I can mix the flour, liquid, etc. in about 30 seconds--but if you're working with huge batches of dough I suppose it would take a lot longer!

If I can perfectly duplicate Giordano's crust (which is very, very close to Gino's East) at home with a two-minute knead (1 minute is too short--it comes out too biscuity and resembles Uno's/Malnati's; and 3 minutes starts to push it into the bread category, so that the biscuit-like texture is lost), then obviously this is what they're doing in the restaurants. So, as I said, maybe your contact is referring to mixing time.

I'll ask a guy I know who used to own a Giordano's franchise and is now operating his own pizzeria with a pie almst the same as theirs.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2006, 06:35:24 PM by buzz »


Offline DKM

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2006, 09:59:10 PM »
For the record, my "source" is a guy that worked at Due's (? Uno's sister store) and Gino's East.

You are correct that it hard to compare large batches to small and other factors between a pizza shop kitchen and a home kitchen.

DKM
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Offline buzz

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2006, 10:54:50 AM »
The batch size must make the difference, then!

You can't forget that these restaurants are extremely secretive about their formulas (so that they can't be stolen), and the big chains have commissaries in separate locations which prepare the dough and ship it to the outlets, so line employees (including store managers) have no inside information.

Offline DKM

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2006, 11:31:24 AM »
Oh I know all about what employees know and don't know.  And this guy has been very honest about things he doesn't know.

DKM
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Offline bearfootie

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2006, 02:56:51 PM »
Buzz and DKM,
So how does one balance between mixing and kneading.  Another words when does too much handling start to become kneading? I do it all by hand so maybe I need a total handling time for a two pan pizza recipe for my Lou/Uno like crust.

Also DKM, your oil ratio is down on your Jan Post for Lou's verses your June Post for Lou's that I orginally used. Haven't tried this one yet, but is the crust lighter cause I really like the June recipe but always looking for the perfect Lou's! Definitely don't want a lighter crust so please advise!


Offline Wazatron

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2006, 09:15:30 PM »
Sorry, but I have a bit of a newbie question - I read the recipe (and it looks amazing) but I was wondering about the yeast - did you proof the yeast before mixing it togehter?  If not, did you need to be sure the water was at a high temp before mixing everything together?

I'm just learning about yests and dough/bread making, and it seems the slightest thing you do makes a big difference from recipe to recipe, so I was curious about this one, since I'd like to try it!! :)

Thanks!

Offline Chicago Rules!!!

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2006, 10:09:36 PM »
Well two differences between active and instant yeast is that active is meant to be proofed and instant can just be added as a dry ingredient. Myself i use instant yeast for pizza and always proof it. But i think that it might turn out better if i start adding the instant yeast as a dry ingredient first and then addingthe warm water.

Offline buzz

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2006, 11:14:09 AM »
Bearfootie--

I always knead my deep dish by hand, too--great fun! You should be able to mix a small batch very quickly--if I make a dough based on 1.5 cups flour, for example, I can mix it (just getting the flour and liquids to come together) in about 30 seconds. After that I knead a Giordano's (or Gino's East)-style for exactly 2 minutes--it comes out into a pretty smooth round ball.

For an Uno's/Malnati's style, I would try kneading for even less time, as their crust seems "looser", or even more biscuit-like than Giordano's/Uno's (which tend to taste more pie-like). You can try 1 minute or 1.5 minutes. Also, I would make sure you have enough oil (at least the rato of 3 TBS: 1 cup flour) if you want to duplicate the greasiness of their restaurant taste. Uno's uses soybean oil; Malnati's uses corn oil. if you experiment, you'll hit on it!

Have fun!


Offline djryan1194

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2006, 02:02:59 PM »
I just tried this recipe at the start of this thread last night.  It was the best pizza I've ever made.  Definetly the closest to real Uno's/Malnati's deep dish pizza.  The crust was nice, flaky and crisp, something I've not been that successful at duplicating until now.  The only thing I changed was to add maybe 1-2 T of sugar to the recipe.  Really really good pizza.  Thanks so much.  I'd attach pictures, but I can't seem to get them below 128kb..


Offline Randy

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2006, 02:27:40 PM »
reduce the size, that should help. 3" wide works well.

Offline bearfootie

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2006, 03:03:10 AM »
Have to make another stab at it this weekend. I'd love to try a recipe, and make it every day, varying it to see what the differences would be, to keep the differences fresh in my mind, but I'm afraid others in the house, who already think I'm obsessive, wouldn't tolerate eating pizza daily. (Although I could quite easily) Thanks Buzz.

Offline djryan1194

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2006, 09:20:33 AM »
Ha!  Boy does that sound familiar.  Last night was the fourth night in a row for deep dish pizza.  I'm starting to have to make two dinners so my kids can eat something else.  They think I'm crazy.   :-D

Offline djryan1194

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2006, 12:28:10 PM »
1 cup warm water
1 tsp active dry yeast
2 1/2 cups AP flour
4 tablespoons Corn Oil
 
Combine the water, yeast, and 1 1/2 cups of the flour in a large bowl. Mix with a large wooden spoon. Add the oil and remaining flour. With the wooden spoon or your hands mix the ingredients together until the dough holds its shape. You may need a bit less flour, so add the last half gradually.

I actually have a question about this recipe.  I'm trying to double the amount of dough using this recipe.  Is it as simple as doubling all the ingredients?  I didn't know if you should use twice as much yeast, or how that worked.

I have to say again that this recipe rocks.  I made another pizza last night and it was way better than any pizza I've ever eaten as Lou's.   And I've been dining there for well over 20 years.  This recipe coupled with all the other advice and suggestions really makes an amazing pizza.   Thanks again!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2006, 01:45:15 PM by Steve »

Offline DKM

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2006, 10:32:27 PM »
You can more or less double it.  I believe in look and feel so if you have made the recipe before double the water, oil, and yeast.  Add the last cup or so of flour slowly untill you get the right feel.

DKM
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Offline bearfootie

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2006, 02:37:55 AM »
DKM,
I made the above Jan post recipe but ended up with dough that was more breadlike and soft. I proofed the yeast for 5 minutes in 110 degree water, but otherwise followed all your instructions.  During the 3-4 counter rise it really rose a lot. Could the proofing have been the problem? I made your June recipe with the 24 hr. frig rise and the semolina and the crust was denser and didn't rise hardly at all in the frig. Liked this texture. The corn oil in the last recipe improved the flavor though.
Was wondering what would happen if I substituted beer for part of the water in my next attempt to get a more flavorful, yeasty, crust. Would this make the dough rise even more?

Offline Randy

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2006, 07:34:08 AM »
Bearfootie I am always amazed that someone would NOT follow a recipe then ask why it didn't work.  Try the recipe as it was written, first, don't assume you know more than the author of the recipe.

Randy

Offline gottabedapan

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Re: Uno/Malnati Style Deep Dish Pizza
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2006, 12:54:06 PM »
I made the above Jan post recipe but ended up with dough that was more breadlike and soft. I proofed the yeast for 5 minutes in 110 degree water, but otherwise followed all your instructions.  During the 3-4 counter rise it really rose a lot. Could the proofing have been the problem? I made your June recipe with the 24 hr. frig rise and the semolina and the crust was denser and didn't rise hardly at all in the frig. Liked this texture. The corn oil in the last recipe improved the flavor though.
Was wondering what would happen if I substituted beer for part of the water in my next attempt to get a more flavorful, yeasty, crust. Would this make the dough rise even more?

Sorry, but gotta agree with Randy: if  you don't follow the recipe, including the procedure, you can't expect similar results.

For one thing, 110° water means that the dough temp is going to be much higher than in DKM's directions. According to General Mills, for every 15° increase in dough temp. up to 100°, the fermentation rate doubles. Secondly, if you proof the yeast before using it, it's already fully hydrated and active when it hits the flour, so it will begin working much sooner than unproofed yeast, as in DKM's recipe. To compensate for both of these factors, you would need to shorten the proof time significantly to achieve DKM's results.