Author Topic: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.  (Read 9056 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CopperTop

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: Charlottesville, VA/Haiku, HI
  • La cucina e per passione
    • Confessions of a Pizza Stalker
Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« on: March 22, 2013, 08:47:01 PM »
Caputo Neapolitan Dough

55 lbs Caputo Blue (100%) - note it's 55, not 50

30-33 lbs ice cold water (when your kitchen is hot/summer) ( or cold water in winter)
1 lb. warm water, 80 F (total water is 56-62%)

6-8 oz fresh yeast (0.068 %) - Depending on climate, humidity, elevation
20-28 oz. sea salt (2-3 %) - Depending on climate, humidity, elevation

Activate yeast in warm water
Add flour to 60 qt Hobart mixing bowl
All all of your cold water to the bowl
Start mixer at slow speed
While mixing, add warm water/ yeast mixture
After 5 minutes of mixing, add salt
Continue mixing for 5 minutes
Total mix time is 12 mins.

Fork/claw/spiral mixer recommended for true Neapolitan style.Hobart is ok but does not heat up dough slightly. If these mixers are used, typically, you would add your
water first and rain in your flour.

Make into 8.5-9.5 oz dough balls

Leave out all day covered for 10-12 hours then use or place in fridge for up to 18-20 hours. Or bulk ferment for 20 hours, then cut and ball and let rise for 8 hrs room temp before use.

Starter

25 lbs flour
20 lbs cold water
1oz dry active yeast
mix for 3 mins then let rise at room temp for 1802- hours, covered.

He uses about 10% starter in his Neos


Offline CopperTop

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: Charlottesville, VA/Haiku, HI
  • La cucina e per passione
    • Confessions of a Pizza Stalker
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2013, 08:04:52 PM »
Standard Classic America
High gluten/high protein flour
 100 % flour
58-60 % hydration
2% sea salt
1% oil
1% malt / sugar
0.5 -1 % yeast

Standard Classic Italian

1 L water
1.8 kg flour
50 grams sea salt
50 g oil
3 grams malt/sugar
2-10 grams yeast


These two recipes are given to his students on the first day of instruction at his school in SF.
Factors affecting the dough: heat, humidity, cold, elevation, water and even placement of mixer in kitchen.

These recipes were in the Pizza Today March 2013.  He has a column, Respecting the Craft
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 08:57:23 PM by CopperTop »

Offline CopperTop

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: Charlottesville, VA/Haiku, HI
  • La cucina e per passione
    • Confessions of a Pizza Stalker
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2013, 08:57:00 PM »
NY Style and  Sicilian Dough (handouts from workshop)


50 lbs All Trumps (bromated or unbromated) 100%
28-32 lbs  Ice cold water (when kitchen is hot/ summer), (or use just cold water in winter)
2 lbs warm water  80F (total water 60-68 %)

20 oz fine sea salt 2.5%
16 oz extra virgin oil 2%
4 oz dry  active yeast . 50% (if using starter, use 1 oz dry active yeast)

Starter 10 lbs starter 20% (optional)
if adding starter, adjust salt, malt and oil % to the 10 lbs and decrease your yeast to 1 oz.

Activate yeast in warm water
Add flour and malt to 60 qt hobart mixing bowl
add all of your cold water to the bowl
start mixer at slow speed
while mixing add warm water/yeast mixture
after 1 min of mixing , add biga
after 5 mins of mixing, add salt
after 8 mins of mixing, add oil
continue mixing for 3-5 mins
total mix time is 12-15 mins

NY slice style  20 inches pizzas - 30 oz dough balls
Sicilian style square / pan 36-38 oz dough balls

key to a great sicilian is the SECOND rise
light, airy, crispy and a texture that has optimal digestibility are the traits of a great Sicilian
lots of NYers may use fresh sausage but they also use slice linked sausage cooked then feather shredded /sliced

you can't find bromated All trumps i all states, CA is one of them. NY has it

Yes water is important, that's  why NY pizza is so good

SF has great water as well.
it's tough to get true NY style pizza out of a conveyor oven. I have not seen it yet.
True NY style pizza is from a brick bottom oven. Gas especially.


If anyone calculates the percentages to make smaller batches of dough, could you share it?

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12833
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2013, 09:10:38 PM »
55 lbs Caputo Blue (100%) - note it's 55, not 50

55.116 to be precise.  :-D
Pizza is not bread.

Offline CopperTop

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: Charlottesville, VA/Haiku, HI
  • La cucina e per passione
    • Confessions of a Pizza Stalker
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2013, 09:19:28 PM »
55.116 to be precise.  :-D

Nerd.   ;) Yeah he did mention that he measures all his flour out of the bag for accuracy. So what do you think of his recipe?  It sure is different from Roberto's or Giulio's...

Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3684
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 09:25:57 PM »
Theres a Big range on the Hydration?  56-62% 
I notice a big difference in those 2 doughs
The forrmula with the 1000G  and 1.8 Lwater is close to robertos (1.7L water) but no oil thats for sure ! I was at Amano today  :P
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline CopperTop

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: Charlottesville, VA/Haiku, HI
  • La cucina e per passione
    • Confessions of a Pizza Stalker
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 09:38:31 PM »
I was at Amano today  :P
John
Rub it in, would ya!   You're so lucky to live near these places!

Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3684
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 09:45:11 PM »
here is my lunch and to go too ! Bad news I lost all my pics from Expo on the transfer to comuter  :'(
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

scott123

  • Guest
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 11:20:17 PM »
NY Style and  Sicilian Dough (handouts from workshop)

What planet has Tony been living on?  ;D

2.5% salt?!?!
68% hydration?
EVOO?!?!
The water source makes a difference?!

:shaking my head:

It's time for him to get his own Food Network show. That way he cover himself with badges and do the self-congratulation thing from now until the cows come home.  He's got the IQ for it. He and Fieri can be best buds.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 11:24:54 PM by scott123 »

Offline TomN

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1511
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2013, 01:52:21 PM »
JConk007,

If your interested, you can purchase photo recovery software. I have it on my computer and have used it on SD chips for photos that I have accidentally deleted. Logitech makes one that works well.

TomN


Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3684
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2013, 10:27:41 PM »
Thanks Tom but only 10-15 pic worth going after 1st and last time it will happen too ! was late and tranfer delete butnot sure where pics eneded up ?
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

scott123

  • Guest
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2013, 10:39:00 PM »
not sure where pics eneded up ?

Just about any computer file, as long as the media it's written to is sound, and you haven't written over it with another file, can be recovered if you delete it. Deleting doesn't erase the whole file, just the pointer that tells the file system where it is.

Offline Tony G

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2013, 01:00:51 AM »
Nice to see that Scott is such a big fan. I am such a strong supporter of this site. Reading Scott's post about his thoughts makes me laugh. I don't know anything about you but you seem to have an issue with me. I have researched pizza for 23 years, I love it, I respect it. I've helped more independent operators around the world than practically anyone and have promoted the industry to the fullest. I literally make hundreds of pizzas everyday and my R&D is a big part of it. I love it when someone questions my work. My pizza is amazing and I'm proud of it. Nobody can come into my arena and say it's not. Those companies you remarked about on my chef coat are products I use and support.  Companies like those help operators get to Expo and or Internationally to compete. I guess your just upset they don't know who you are. I support every style and always think we can make it better. The recipes we used in the seminar are tried and true. One funny thing is your pic Pizza Town is a pizzeria that went out of business soon after my brothers restarant Pyzanos opened so maybe  your the guy who owned that and you went out of business. I'm still not sure. Scott its not your fault you don't understand why salt % can change depending on climate, water, staging, elevation, length of maturation, humidity, etc.. It's not your fault you don't understand why hydration fluctuates do to flour absorption, personal preference, type of water, starter, protein, even touch and feel, etc or why authentic recipes from NY may use olive oil. It may be an old way of thinking, lack of knowledge, or maybe your an angry stubborn guy. I suggest you keep your remarks to yourself until you get more schooling because your getting schooled right now.. The last thing is why don't you tell me more about yourself and send me your picture. Next time we see each other you may want to be more professional. I may not know everything in life but I do know pizza. Guys like Scott are reasons why more professionals don't come on this site and post comments. Remarks and comments are one thing, challenges are another but questioning someone else's work, putting someone down in a non professional way is a major disconnect of why people visit pizzamaking.com. Tony Gemignani

scott123

  • Guest
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2013, 08:23:04 AM »
The last thing is why don't you tell me more about yourself and send me your picture. Next time we see each other you may want to be more professional.



Yeesh, Tony, you're so sensitive!  ;D  People 'like me' are driving you away? Are you really such a delicate flower that a snarky online comment is going to send you running for the hills?  How many awards have you won?  A million? A trillion? A gazillion?  :)  An "11 Time World Pizza Champion" should be able to squash little ol me like a bug. Within your paradigm, I should be meaningless. A spec. A mere mortal. I shouldn't even be a blip on your radar.

Serious, though, if you want to know why I have issues with you, I'll be more than happy to tell you why.

Pizza has not been, nor ever will be, a ShamWow infomercial. It's not a Tony Robbins seminar. It is humble, working class, mom & pop family food.  Pizza guys are not circus ringmasters.  They're not Nascar drivers.  They're simple, hard working, salt of the earth people.  Substance over style. They make a good a living, but it's more than just making a good living, it's a craft. They're unassuming and unpretentious laborers that would generally laugh at the idea of putting badges or logos on themselves. The commercialization and corporate cronyism that you and the expo represent has been and is killing pizza. For the most part, it's flash, it's greed, and it's commodifying and gentrifying a centuries old art.

Quote
Scott its not your fault you don't understand why salt % can change depending on climate, water, staging, elevation, length of maturation, humidity, etc.

Even for the layperson, discerning the difference between a typical 1.5%-2% level and a 2.5% level of salt is not difficult. Over the course of 35 years, I've eaten at over 800 NY area pizzerias, and, while I haven't been in every kitchen when they've mixed the dough, I could taste the crust, and none of them ever exceeded 2%.  If you're trying to tell me that NY style can't be recreated properly outside the NY area without a bump in salt (climate, water, etc.), then I'm telling you that you're incorrect.  Countless pizzamaking members in all parts of the world have made/are making beautiful NY style pizzas with authentic NY salt levels.

Quote
It's not your fault you don't understand why hydration fluctuates do to flour absorption, personal preference, type of water, starter, protein, even touch and feel

You can certainly, by pushing the gluten development, make a 68% hydration dough that isn't all that slack, but gluten development will only get you so far. At the salt levels historically found in the NY area, 68% hydration, even with plenty of kneading, will give you something that's far slacker than you'd ever find in a NY pizzeria.  NY pizzerias don't always toss their dough, but they almost always stick to doughs with consistencies that can be tossed, and, 68% hydration, with a typical quantity of salt, can't be tossed- at least, not by someone who lacks your skills, which, on the acrobatic side, is just about everyone (I'll give you that).

Now, you did touch on elevation earlier, and elevation does require a bump in hydration, but that's common knowledge. That's on the back of every cake mix ever made.  If you want to make a distinction for elevation by providing an elevation specific recipe, that's fine, but this dartboard range of hydrations topping out at 68 does no one a service. Nationally, All Trumps doesn't vary all that much. Also, using the same amount of yeast for wildly varying hydrations doesn't serve your students either.

Evoo, like salt, has an incredibly distinctive flavor.  And, like salt, out of the 800+ places I've been, I've never tasted evoo in a crust. If you want to drizzle evoo on the pie, either pre or post bake, some places have been known to do that, but evoo in the dough is unheard of.

Could there be NY area pizzerias, past or present, that use 2.5% salt, 68% and evoo? Of course. When you're dealing with thousands of pizzerias, you're going to find plenty of outliers straying from the norm.  But to make the implication that any of these traits are typical for the style misses the mark entirely.  NY pizza can vary, but these variations are well known to any NYer that knows their pizza. It isn't as rigidly definable as Neapolitan, but it's still definable none the less. No one can come along and say, "well, NY pizza is traditionally done this way, but, from here on out, I'm defining it THIS way," regardless of how many awards they might have won :) If you want to say 'I like evoo in pizza dough,' hey evoo it up.  Take a bath in the stuff.  But you're putting yourself forward as a NY style expert and, as such, making the implication that evoo somehow belongs in NY style pizza (or that NY dough should contain 2.5% salt)- that's just dead wrong.   

And the water thing? Come on.  Nobody buys into that any more. Sure, if someone lives in an area where the water is exceedingly soft or hard or the chlorine levels resemble a swimming pool, they should take steps to correct it. But, the concept that NY pizza is good because of the water is a myth. Anyone anywhere, with just about any water, can make pizza on par with NY.

Tony, you can ShamWow it up in Vegas, win tens of awards from your friends, and pat yourself on the back all you want, and, if that makes you feel good, all power to you, but none of that is going to help you understand NY culture, my culture. It's not your fault that you're not from NY :) As long as you disrespect my area's history by spreading misinformation, I'm going to respond in a highly critical manner.

I don't know everything there is to know about NY style pizza nor do I represent it, but I am one of about 20 million NYers, past and present, that, collectively, own the rights to it. California doesn't have the right to redefine this area's cultural treasure. I don't tell you how to surf, farm, make movies, or anything else that California is famous for. Don't tell us what is and isn't in our pizza.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 09:06:15 AM by scott123 »

Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3043
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2013, 09:08:21 AM »
..... I don't tell you how to surf, farm, make movies, or anything else that California is famous for. Don't tell us what is and isn't in our pizza.

Lol, mess with a bull and get the horns. :-D
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Serpentelli

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1167
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Wilmington, NC
    • Bat Man vs. The Penguin
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2013, 09:35:30 AM »
 :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

I thought the "Your (sic) getting schooled right now..." comment was AWESOME

Then I read Scott's re-rebuttal, along with the section that Gene quoted and that was definitely AWESOMER!!!

Very good!

Very funny!

But mostly very good!

Respect! :)

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline TomN

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1511
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2013, 12:48:27 PM »
Hello Tony Gemignani,

I don't mean to change the theme of this thread, but I just want to take this opportunity to thank you for sharing your pizza knowledge with everyone throughout the years. Also, I am really enjoying your book, ""Pizza" by Diane Morgan & Tony Gemignani. My favorite recipe so far is the Spinach and Ricotta Pizza which is FANTASTIC!!!!! I hope you release another book soon. Thanks again.

TomN
PS
PLEASE continue to be on the forum despite some of the negative comments because there are many more of us that appreciate your pizza knowledge and skills.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 12:51:44 PM by TomN »

Offline Serpentelli

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1167
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Wilmington, NC
    • Bat Man vs. The Penguin
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2013, 12:58:12 PM »
PLEASE continue to be on the forum despite some of the negative comments because there are many more of us that appreciate your pizza knowledge and skills.

I am not trying to be a wiseguy here but I only see 7 posts from Tony G? If there are more under a different name I'd sure be interested in knowing! :)

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22140
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2013, 01:49:19 PM »
To be fair to Tony, I think it is unreasonable for someone with his work schedule and commitments to spend much time on a forum, whether it is this one or the PMQ Think Tank where most professionals visit. I suspect that someone told Tony about Scott's comments and he felt that he could not let the comments go unanswered. Like most people, he perhaps also is sensitive to criticism. It's human nature. I could say twenty five nice things about a person and one negative thing, and the one that will always have the greatest impact and remain the longest with the person and stick in the person's craw is the negative comment. That is why it is so important to be careful in the words chosen to criticize someone and how they are delivered. I think that duty is even stronger when the words are delivered out of anonymity.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22177
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pizza Expo 2013: Going to Pizza School with Tony G.
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2013, 02:16:12 PM »
Peter and TomN,

I agree.  I donít think anyone wants to hear negative comments, no matter who they are.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!