Author Topic: Blackstone Pizza Oven  (Read 346155 times)

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Offline tommy

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3220 on: December 17, 2013, 10:28:41 PM »

How are you suited for flour?  I've got some GM Neapolitan I can spare.
I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't been keeping up with the forum here as much as I used to or should. GM Neapolitan flour is apparently from Gold Metal. I'll take the question I have (better than Caputo 00) onto the appropriate thread, since it doesn't apply to the Blackstone.

Damn, I stop paying attention for a few months and apparently there's a new oven and new flour to consider!

Thanks everyone. I really do appreciate this forum.


Offline tommy

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3221 on: December 17, 2013, 10:31:13 PM »
That looks great, Tommy, you're well on your way to that 90 second mark.

The chauflector should help with the slight browning you're seeing on the middle piece of cheese.

Scott, I assume perhaps incorrectly, that the chauflector will help the cornicione and top cook more quickly, so the bottom isn't done before the rest of the pie. Am I not understanding your comment, or, the benefits of the chauflector?

Thanks.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3222 on: December 17, 2013, 10:50:18 PM »
Scott, I assume perhaps incorrectly, that the chauflector will help the cornicione and top cook more quickly, so the bottom isn't done before the rest of the pie. Am I not understanding your comment, or, the benefits of the chauflector?

Thanks.
Chauflector is to concentrate on cornice rather than "top" center of pie(excess cheese browning)
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Offline tommy

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3223 on: December 17, 2013, 10:52:55 PM »
Chauflector is to concentrate on cornice rather than "top" center of pie(excess cheese browning)
Ah. Well, I think I need to work on the cheese a bit. I think the chunks were too big, too cold, or too something.

And then, I think the Chauflector will be considered.

I've never given one pizza some much thought in my life. There's a lot going on here!

Thanks CB (and everyone else)

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3224 on: December 17, 2013, 11:08:20 PM »
Ah. Well, I think I need to work on the cheese a bit. I think the chunks were too big, too cold, or too something.

And then, I think the Chauflector will be considered.

I've never given one pizza some much thought in my life. There's a lot going on here!

Thanks CB (and everyone else)
Well...like you said , you had 2 different types on this bake. They did look sort of "cut or cubed" ...that added height to the cheese and put it in the line of fire so to speak. Most folks prefer to "tear" the cheese....there is a whole thread somewhere that the guys are comparing wire screens that they push the cheese through to come up with different sizes/textures.
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Offline TOM1L21

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3225 on: December 17, 2013, 11:16:57 PM »
I just go my Blackstone from the $300 Amazon deal this week, and after setting it up, I'm pretty disappointed with the quality control. For starters, one of the spring loaded nubs on the legs wouldnt line up with one of the holes on the oven. Either the heat shield or its supports are bent or not level as the shield doesn't sit flush and wobbles. The aluminum cover's front face was welded on poorly with noticeable gaps and a bent edge on the right side. Also (not that this is a quality control issue) but it came with the 5 psi regulator, so I'm already having doubt's that it'll get as hot as the 10 psi regulated ones, unless so.some can convince me otherwise. I'll give it a whirl tomorrow since it shouldn't be snowing.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 11:43:05 PM by TOM1L21 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3226 on: December 17, 2013, 11:25:34 PM »
I just go my Blackstone from the $300 Amazon deal this week, and after setting it up, I'm pretty disappointed with the quality control. For starters, one of the spring loaded nubs on the legs wouldnt line up with one of the holes on the oven. Either the heat shield or its supports are bent or not level as the shield doesn't sit flush and wobbles. The aluminum cover's front face was welded on poorly with noticeable gaps and a bent edge on the right side. Also (not that this is a quality control issue) but it came with the 5 so regulator, so I'm already having doubt's that it'll get as hot as the 10 psi regulated ones, unless so.some can convince me otherwise. I'll give it a whirl tomorrow since it shouldn't be snowing.
I wonder if they are using more than one manufacturer ....also, if they dialed the temp back with the 5psi regulator,how's come mine came today with a 10psi?  These Blackstone Boys crack me up man! Maybe they have a room full of returns and since knowing we are a handy lot type of people they ship 'em out an hope we'll do the little repairs we've posted about ourselves.... ???
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Offline tommy

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3227 on: December 17, 2013, 11:27:25 PM »
Well...like you said , you had 2 different types on this bake. They did look sort of "cut or cubed" ...that added height to the cheese and put it in the line of fire so to speak. Most folks prefer to "tear" the cheese....there is a whole thread somewhere that the guys are comparing wire screens that they push the cheese through to come up with different sizes/textures.
Yup. I agree. They were cut/cubed. My cheese management comes from 4 or so years of successful electric oven cooking. I prefer buffalo mozzarella when I'm pretending to do a Neapolitan style pizza in the electric ovens, and that's always torn. I think if the pieces on this pie were smaller, the pie would have effectively been done more quickly, and I might be saying "no mods and this was done in 90 seconds!"

I've got four 100% Caputo 00 doughs ready to go for Thursday (I generally use a mix of KA Bread and 00). I'll be messing with buffalo mozzarella, and also with some low moisture mozzeralla, most certainly smaller, and probably torn, to get that ameba-like shape and mix with the sauce.  Four pies and some time will give me a few more data points to work with.

Lots to rejigger with this thing. I'm looking forward to it. The missus, however, is probably sick of pizza already. Thankfully the family descends upon my house for the Christmas holiday, and I'll have some fresh mouths. Most of which are from Chicago, though, so, you know, that could be a whole different set of challenges. :)

Offline tommy

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3228 on: December 17, 2013, 11:30:56 PM »
I wonder if they are using more than one manufacturer ....also, if they dialed the temp back with the 5psi regulator,how's come mine came today with a 10psi?  These Blackstone Boys crack me up man! Maybe they have a room full of returns and since knowing we are a handy lot type of people they ship 'em out an hope we'll do the little repairs we've posted about ourselves.... ???
I could be all wet, but I thought I read that they changed the 10 psi regulator to the 5 psi, to remediate the flame-thrower issue. Mine's a 5 (delivered today, from amazon in NJ), and the damned thing throws some serious flame (in a good way, not through the knob!). I'm not sure what the true difference really is between the 5 and the 10. I was sort of disappointed when I saw "5", but perhaps it's not really a factor when it comes to performance.

One reason that someone would receive a 10 is because the product was already out and at the distributor. I can't imagine they recalled every one. The cost would probably be prohibitive. I bet if you want a 5, they'll send it to you. Especially if you suggest that you burned yourself with the 10.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 11:33:28 PM by tommy »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3229 on: December 17, 2013, 11:35:49 PM »
Yup. I agree. They were cut/cubed. My cheese management comes from 4 or so years of successful electric oven cooking. I prefer buffalo mozzarella when I'm pretending to do a Neapolitan style pizza in the electric ovens, and that's always torn. I think if the pieces on this pie were smaller, the pie would have effectively been done more quickly, and I might be saying "no mods and this was done in 90 seconds!"

I've got four 100% Caputo 00 doughs ready to go for Thursday (I generally use a mix of KA Bread and 00). I'll be messing with buffalo mozzarella, and also with some low moisture mozzeralla, most certainly smaller, and probably torn, to get that ameba-like shape and mix with the sauce.  Four pies and some time will give me a few more data points to work with.

Lots to rejigger with this thing. I'm looking forward to it. The missus, however, is probably sick of pizza already. Thankfully the family descends upon my house for the Christmas holiday, and I'll have some fresh mouths. Most of which are from Chicago, though, so, you know, that could be a whole different set of challenges. :)
Yes, I like to call the ameba-like cheese meld...."ghost cheese" , tis a thing of beauty and taste for sure. No washer spacers on this first go round tommy?
Family from Chicago...ah, nice....hope ya'll enjoy the Holiday get together.  :chef:
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Offline tommy

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3230 on: December 17, 2013, 11:46:50 PM »
I just go my Blackstone from the $300 Amazon deal this week, and after setting it up, I'm pretty disappointed with the quality control. For starters, one of the spring loaded nubs on the legs wouldnt line up with one of the holes on the oven. Either the heat shield or its supports are bent or not level as the shield doesn't sit flush and wobbles. The aluminum cover's front face was welded on poorly with noticeable gaps and a bent edge on the right side. Also (not that this is a quality control issue) but it came with the 5 so regulator, so I'm already having doubt's that it'll get as hot as the 10 psi regulated ones, unless so.some can convince me otherwise. I'll give it a whirl tomorrow since it shouldn't be snowing.
While my unit went together without any manufacturing flaws, I should note (and I'm not sure if it's been noted previously) that the collar placement was just useless. Had I ordered this and put it together as delivered, the stone would not have rotated, as it was resting on the decorative stainless facade. I suspect this would burn out the DD powered motor pretty quickly, and people would wonder why it wasn't working. Not everyone reads this forum and would not know to move that collar (to below the first platform!). That's a huge mistake on the part of BS.

And, I like to follow directions to the letter, because I assume they have been vetted. Why did I put the dome on only to then take it off to put in the (useless) thermometer? Even their video that they have online illustrates a more logical build.

Anywho, I hope it works out for everyone. When it works, it gets hot. If folks buying this are not looking for sub-2 minute cooks, I'm not sure it's worth the possible hassle. Being someone who has pushed his home ovens to the limit to get quick cook times, it's a pretty cheap solution. For people happy with their 10 minute cooks, this unit likely won't make the pizza any better.  Like I say, NYC water doesn't make great pizza, brick ovens don't make good pizza, but rather good pizza makers make good pizza. People just have to decide on what they are striving for and base their approach and purchases on achieving those goals.


Offline tommy

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3231 on: December 17, 2013, 11:48:36 PM »
Yes, I like to call the ameba-like cheese meld...."ghost cheese" , tis a thing of beauty and taste for sure. No washer spacers on this first go round tommy?
Family from Chicago...ah, nice....hope ya'll enjoy the Holiday get together.  :chef:
Didn't read about the spacers (or at least it didn't sink in) until after I put it together.  But alas, here it is:
http://www.pizzawiki.info/index.php?title=Raising_the_Lower_Stone_off_the_Tray
I'll be looking into this. :)

Unfortunately there's no quick fix to the family. Chicago, or not. :)

Offline TOM1L21

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3232 on: December 17, 2013, 11:53:31 PM »
And, I like to follow directions to the letter, because I assume they have been vetted. Why did I put the dome on only to then take it off to put in the (useless) thermometer? Even their video that they have online illustrates a more logical build.

Haha this was the icing on the cake for me. I picked up the thermometer, saw the wingnut, and just shook my head. I definitely need to go through these forums though to read up on mods and methods as the inner engineer and pizza lover wouldn't have it any other way. Thanks for the tip.

Offline tommy

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3233 on: December 18, 2013, 12:00:23 AM »
Haha this was the icing on the cake for me. I picked up the thermometer, saw the wingnut, and just shook my head. I definitely need to go through these forums though to read up on mods and methods as the inner engineer and pizza lover wouldn't have it any other way. Thanks for the tip.
Just in case you didn't catch it, here's a wiki: http://www.pizzawiki.info/index.php?title=Blackstone_Pizza_Oven
There's also a topic on the forum: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26507.0

Good luck! And hey, it's nothing a rubber a mallet won't fix, right? :D

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3234 on: December 18, 2013, 12:15:30 AM »
Anywho, I hope it works out for everyone. When it works, it gets hot. If folks buying this are not looking for sub-2 minute cooks, I'm not sure it's worth the possible hassle. Being someone who has pushed his home ovens to the limit to get quick cook times, it's a pretty cheap solution. For people happy with their 10 minute cooks, this unit likely won't make the pizza any better.  Like I say, NYC water doesn't make great pizza, brick ovens don't make good pizza, but rather good pizza makers make good pizza. People just have to decide on what they are striving for and base their approach and purchases on achieving those goals.

It does work remarkably well for short bake times for NP pies and just as remarkable for longer bake times. I've done cracker, Chicago thin, NY style, pasta bakes, chicken, steak, chops, weenies, brats.............it is more versatile than just achieving a short bake time on NP pies. just have to manage your flame and heat control. I'm actual considering buying a 2nd one just to have for when the other wears out considering the price point right now!

jon
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Offline tommy

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3235 on: December 18, 2013, 08:08:00 AM »
It does work remarkably well for short bake times for NP pies and just as remarkable for longer bake times. I've done cracker, Chicago thin, NY style, pasta bakes, chicken, steak, chops, weenies, brats.............it is more versatile than just achieving a short bake time on NP pies. just have to manage your flame and heat control. I'm actual considering buying a 2nd one just to have for when the other wears out considering the price point right now!

jon
That's fair jon. I was probably being too critical and applying my own desires here. I was trying (unsuccessfully) to say that it won't magically make you go from 10 minute pies to NP pies. That will take time and practice. I also didn't consider that while I won't use it year round and for anything other than NP pies, I can see how others would. It's more than a one trick pony.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 08:10:30 AM by tommy »

Offline Tampa

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Pizzaria Locale in WSJ (like an enlarged Blackstone)
« Reply #3236 on: December 18, 2013, 08:34:12 AM »
Chipolte has an interesting concept in selling an 11 inch neo pie for $6.50, per the article below from today's Wall Street Journal.  The commercial oven they are using is gas and looks like a WFO but performs like a Blackstone/2Stone.  This is a rather long article, so skip down to the bottom to see the oven.  I've been wondering how to add zazz to the Blackstone for mobile businesses and for home/outdoor built-in use and this might be one way.

Dave
=

WSJ: Can Restaurants Deliver a Higher-Quality Pizza in Two Minutes?

By Sarah Nassauer, Dec. 17, 2013 7:19 p.m. ET
           
Pizza is getting a Chipotle makeover.

Chipolte Mexican Grill has quietly joined a growing group of restaurants aiming to change how we eat pizza. The ascendant Mexican-food chain known for its mix of healthy-enough, fast-enough food, has the blueprint from its burritos: Make pizza fast, individually tailored and with higher-quality ingredients than low-end competitors. The restaurant's executives want to carve out a niche between eating pizza at home and heading to a high-end, sit-down Italian restaurant. Pizza is one of the most popular meals in the U.S. but it's eaten most often via delivery or the supermarket freezer aisle.

Chipotle helped finance the Denver opening earlier this year of Pizzeria Locale, a restaurant that aims to serve pizza just as Chipotle does burritos. Diners standing in line choose from toppings like fresh mozzarella and prosciutto while watching their food being made. Individual 11-inch pies cost around $6.50 and take a few minutes to make. Diners pay at the counter. A glass-enclosed, climate-controlled dough-making room is prominently placed in the restaurant for easy viewing.

Chipotle has become a model of restaurant success at a time when Americans aren't rushing to eat out. It and other chains like Panera Bread Co. in are taking business from both sit-down chains like Olive Garden and fast-food restaurants like McDonald's as consumers go for fancier food without the fuss of table service.

While plenty of burger, Mexican and sandwich restaurants have staked out this middle ground around the country, pizza looks like the next frontier.     

Pizza is an emotional dish for many Americans. Chicagoans, New Yorkers and others are profoundly attached to their local version: thin crust, deep dish, square or round. Often people order from a handful of chains, mostly pizza of the super cheesy variety, the kind that defines late-night eating for many college students.

It's a growing part of the American diet. About 75% of people report having had pizza once in a two-week period, up from 66% in 2003, according to NPD Group, a market-research firm. The younger the eaters, the more likely they are to choose it, according to the data.

It's also more challenging to pull off fast, premium pizza than burritos or burgers. Thin, Neapolitan-style crust, delicate and chewy on the inside and crisp on the outside, is traditionally cooked in a wood-fired oven. Baking requires a skilled cook to constantly shift the pizza, avoiding uneven hot spots. Making a pizza from scratch also typically takes longer than Chipotle patrons have to wait.

To speed the process and save on labor costs, Pizzeria Locale worked with engineers to produce gas ovens that distributed heat more evenly than a wood-fired oven, says Lachlan Mackinnon-Patterson, co-owner of the restaurant. The pizza rotates around the oven, cooking in about two minutes at about 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit.

Still, convincing Americans to eat pizza low on cheese with a slightly charred crust "will be a challenge," he says.

"All these triple-cheese, stuffed this-and-that" pizzas don't improve taste, Mr. Mackinnon-Patterson says. "I want the canvas of the dough to be seasoned as you would a great salad. ... It's just not something that most Americans are used to and we realize that."

Some of Locale's ingredients, like broccolini and corn, might strike traditional pizza-lovers as odd. He hopes that tasting the pizza will convince people.

Pizzeria Locale in Denver is a partnership with Mr. Mackinnon-Patterson and Bobby Stuckey, owners of a sit-down version of the restaurant, also called Pizzeria Locale, and Frasca Food and Wine, a high-end Italian restaurant in Boulder, Colo. They first met working at French Laundry, a Northern California restaurant and temple of American foodie culture.

After opening Frasca almost 10 years ago, Messrs. Mackinnon-Patterson and Stuckey opened the sit-down pizzeria in 2011 with waiters, a large menu of Neapolitan pizzas and a well-researched wine list.

"When I walked in, I thought, 'Oh my gosh, what if they did this in a Chipotle format?' " says Steve Ells, Chipotle chairman and CEO and a longtime friend and Frasca customer.     

Chipotle helped them retool the concept into a faster restaurant over about 18 months, with an opening this May. The original Chipotle also launched with a single Denver location. Chipotle declined to give financial details of the agreement. The company is an investor in the Denver Locale and has the option to become majority owner in the future, a spokesman says.

Other restaurants have already rushed to crack this riddle. Denver-based Live Basil Pizza and Mod Pizza of Bellevue, Wash., among others, have opened in recent years, serving thin-crust pizza made to order at a counter and touting fresher, more diverse ingredients than standard fare at Pizza Hut or Domino's Pizza.

A growing preference for thin, artisanal pizza helps make fast-but-good pizza possible, says Rick Wetzel, co-owner of Blaze Fast-Fire'd Pizza, a chain based in Pasadena, Calif.

"Very thin crust cooks faster," Mr. Wetzel says. He and his wife started the chain after craving a good pizza without a long wait, not finding one and ending up at a Chipotle, he says.

Mainstream pizza-makers are getting in on the trend, too. Pizza Hut introduced Firebaked Style Flatbread Pizzas for a limited time earlier this year to cater to the growing interest in light crust, especially among eaters under 35, says Carrie Walsh, vice president of marketing for Pizza Hut, which is owned by Yum! Brands Inc.

Pizza Hut didn't see a drop in sales of thick-crust pizza, a spokesman says. The company recently launched a new 3-Cheese Stuffed Crust Pizza to its menu, hoping to boost the already about 10% of sales that came from stuffed-crust pies.

At the sit-down Locale, waiters are asked why there is no pepperoni on the menu "literally 100 times a day," Mr. Stuckey says.

Without waiters to explain the Neapolitan concept, the restaurateurs decided the simplest answer was to eliminate the question. For the faster version in Denver, the team edited the menu, adding more traditional American pizzas, including pepperoni.

Red and white wine are served on tap there. Prosciutto is served freshly sliced from an Italian, cherry-red ham slicer while customers watch.

Messrs. Stuckey and Mackinnon-Patterson have toured Chipotles around the country to learn how the company builds a team of employees and worked with company executives to learn how it sources ingredients as a large chain and quickly replicates the model. They are considering locations for two more Denver restaurants, the Chipotle spokesman says.

Pizzeria Locale is Chipotle's second venture beyond Mexican cuisine, part of the 20-year-old company's push to keep its sales growth strong as it ages. It has opened six ShopHouse Southeast Asian Kitchen restaurants since 2011 and plans to open more. "I don't think there is a kind of cuisine that wouldn't fit into the Chipotle format," Chipotle CEO Mr. Ells says.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 12:55:29 PM by Tampa »

Offline tommy

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3237 on: December 18, 2013, 10:43:35 AM »
Looks like Amazon is out of stock. A third party is selling it for 400 + shipping.

Offline kerrymarcy

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3238 on: December 18, 2013, 07:42:17 PM »
I just got around to trying my luck out with my new BS.  In order to gain experience on using the BS, I thought I would make some NY pies.  I fired the BS up in my garage which was about 30 degrees.  It took me over 25 minutes to warm up to 630ish with the 5psi regulator (wow!).

Once the BS got to temp, I was able to stabilize temp with ease.  The pizza took about 2 1/2 minutes to bake- the cornice looked excellent but the top could have been done more (although, I may have been a little heavy on the cheese).  I think that some modification is in order to cook the top a bit more- maybe I will try the washer thing or raising the whole stone a bit higher.

All in all, with some minor adjustments and experience with respect to the learning curve, I think that this is going to be an awesome oven.
Outside of the top not being quite done to my liking, the pizzas  turned out exceptional.  One of my biggest observations, was that there was much more "spring" and the crumb was much more moist than in a conventional oven.  This is the first time that I used "Bouncer flour" which could explain some of the spring because of the bromate. 

FWIW, I set the collar on the lower bearing and the turntable spins freely without any binding- no real need for additional bearing.

Kerry
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 08:27:32 PM by kerrymarcy »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3239 on: December 18, 2013, 08:54:40 PM »
I just got around to trying my luck out with my new BS.  In order to gain experience on using the BS, I thought I would make some NY pies.  I fired the BS up in my garage which was about 30 degrees.  It took me over 25 minutes to warm up to 630ish with the 5psi regulator (wow!).

Once the BS got to temp, I was able to stabilize temp with ease.  The pizza took about 2 1/2 minutes to bake- the cornice looked excellent but the top could have been done more (although, I may have been a little heavy on the cheese).  I think that some modification is in order to cook the top a bit more- maybe I will try the washer thing or raising the whole stone a bit higher.

All in all, with some minor adjustments and experience with respect to the learning curve, I think that this is going to be an awesome oven.
Outside of the top not being quite done to my liking, the pizzas  turned out exceptional.  One of my biggest observations, was that there was much more "spring" and the crumb was much more moist than in a conventional oven.  This is the first time that I used "Bouncer flour" which could explain some of the spring because of the bromate. 

FWIW, I set the collar on the lower bearing and the turntable spins freely without any binding- no real need for additional bearing.

Kerry
Sounds great Kerry....you'll dial it in quickly.   :chef:    Any pics of your first BS pizza?

ps...don't know what all type of pies you are looking to make but it sounds like you're gonna need a 10psi regulator....if nothing else that ought to help heat up your garage while you're out there playing.  ;D
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 09:31:37 PM by Chicago Bob »
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