Author Topic: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”  (Read 68683 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #580 on: September 10, 2013, 10:23:11 PM »
I will just post a few things tonight about both bakes today, but they did surprise me somewhat.  The Sloan clone dough produced a pizza almost like De Lorenzo/Robbinsville.  It was crunchy and crispy across the whole bottom crust and did brown.  It didn't char quite enough, but it reminded me of the pizza Trenton Bill and I ate at De Lorenzo/Robbinsville.  The bake time for the Sloan clone pizza was 9 minutes 45 seconds.  At first I thought the first slice drooped when picking up a slice right after it was cut and right out of the oven, but when eating a couple of slices the slices stood straight out.   

The De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone dough ball produced a pizza that was somewhat soft on the middle of the bottom crust even though when cut it did sound crispy across the whole pizza.  I think I applied too much Sorrento cheese to the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone pizzas though and don't  know how that affected the whole pizza. 

This is a video of the attempted Sloan pizza being cut.  It was not cut right, but it can be seen how it looked. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O57jArBCsdw&feature=youtu.be

This is a video of the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville attempted pizza bring being cut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rw34JQALw0&feature=youtu.be 

Both rim crusts were darker than they appear in the videos.

I will post some regular photos tomorrow.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #581 on: September 11, 2013, 09:11:31 AM »
The Sloan clone dough ball developed a bubble on the top at one place while it was in the deli case.  When the dough ball was taken out of the deli case I did pinch the bubble to deflate it.  The dough ball sat out to warm up for about 1 ½ hrs and no more bubbles formed on the top.  There were no fermentation bubbles while pressing it out.  The Sloan clone dough balled pressed out okay.  The dough ball didn't have great elasticity or extensibility though.  The temperature at market yesterday was about 94 degrees F or a little hotter right next to the oven and was very humid.  Since it was very humid, like it is sometimes in hot weather at market, flour wants to stick to the work bench and on my hands more than usual.  I knew I would not be able to open the dough ball more over the marble table with trying to slide it around a lot because of the sticking flour and because the dough is so thin.  I did the best I could though and finished stretching by hand to a finished skin size of 14”  The Sloan clone dough pizza was dressed with Sorrento part skim mozzarella that I grated and a blend of Red Pack tomatoes crushed and 6-in 1s.  Olive oil was drizzled over the top of the dressings before it went into the oven. 

Steve and I tasted a piece the Sorrento part skim mozzarella and we thought it had a good taste.  The Sorrento part skim mozzarella really wanted to get soft quick at those higher temperatures and we did leave the Sorrento part skim mozzarella that I grated in the pizza prep fridge until I started to open the dough ball.

The Sloan clone dough pizza baked well at my oven temperatures and the rim was oiled near the end of the bake.  After the bake more olive oil was drizzled on top of the pizza.  As I posted in my last post the pizza was crisp and crunchy across the whole pizza after the bake.  The bottom of the crust did brown well too without any sugar.  Steve and I wondered how such a thin pizza with not many dressings takes so long to bake.   

The photos show more how the bottom crust looked, but the rim crust was really darker than it appears on some of my photos.  The semolina side of the dough was used as the bottom crust and we didn't taste any semolina or see it on the baked bottom of the pizza.  The semolina did stick to the bottom of the dough ball.  The rest of the semolina on the bottom of the plastic container did not stick to the plastic container even though there was some condensation on the lid of the plastic container.  The remaining semolina in the plastic container could have been easily dumped out. 

As I posted before the Sloan clone dough made a pizza that reminded me of of the pizza Trenton Bill and I ate at De Lorenzo/Robbinsville.  I think a little more salt could have been added though and am not sure if the Sloan clone dough formulation mixing was enough.

Norma
     
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #582 on: September 11, 2013, 09:14:31 AM »
Norma
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #583 on: September 11, 2013, 09:16:46 AM »
Norma
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #584 on: September 11, 2013, 09:26:57 AM »
The De Lorenzo/Robbinsville/Hudson clone dough ball didn't develop any bubbles on the top of the dough ball while it was in the deli case.  It did develop a bubble after it was warm up for 1 ½ hrs. at the ambient temperatures at market. 

The De Lorenzo/Robbinsville/Hudson clone dough ball from Peter's formulation did have fermentation bubbles when pressing it out.  I could pressed it some and slide it while draped over the marble table, but not a lot because of the sticking flour issue.  The skin was then stretched by hand to 14”.  The semolina side of the skin was also used as the bottom of the pizza. 

The same dressings were used on this pizza, but more mozzarella was used and the sequences of adding the olive oil was the same.  The Sorrento part skim mozzarella does want to clump fast when at warm room temperatures even though I also left the Sorrento cheese in the pizza prep fridge until I was ready to press out the skin.  The Sorrento part skim mozzarella the way I purchased it is very soft when grating too.  The bottom crust did brown on this pizza too, but not as much in my opinion.  The bottom crust was not crunchy and crispy like the the other pizza was right after it was cut and cooled down.  The edges of the bottom rim crust were somewhat crispy.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #585 on: September 11, 2013, 09:30:24 AM »
Norma
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #586 on: September 11, 2013, 09:33:01 AM »
Norma
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #587 on: September 11, 2013, 12:40:33 PM »
Norma,

Thank you very much for conducting the two experiments using the Sloan and Robbinsville dough balls. I was anxiously looking forward to seeing and analyzing your results.

In retrospect, I think it was a good idea for you to use the same dough ball weight for the two pizzas. That way, we could see the effects of the different hydration values (actual and "effective") on the final results. Unfortunately, because of the unusual temperature and humidity conditions you experienced at market yesterday and their effects on the dough balls and skins, including bubbling, I am not sure what factors governed the final results you achieved and what, if any, changes to the dough formulations might be called for or suggested by your results. It may well be that you will be better served if you conducted the experiments at home where you would be better able to control the operating environment. Also, you would be able to make a two- or three-day cold fermented dough that would be similar to what De Lorenzo/Robbinsville is said to be using. Moreover, since you indicated that you have no plans to offer tomato pies at market, maybe a home setting is better for your purposes. There may be other perils to a home environment, such as not having the proper oven to bake the tomato pies, but you at least know and have pretty much all of the right ingredients. 

Returning to the hydration issue mentioned above, if your results suggested that the hydration value of the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone dough formulation should be lowered in order to get a more uniform crispiness across the entire pizza, then something else in the dough formulation would have to be increased. And, since there is no sugar in the dough from what we have been told, that would mean that the amounts of salt, yeast or oil, or a combination thereof, would have to be increased. Increasing the amount of salt and/or yeast while keeping them at functional values would not be enough. Rather, it would mean having to increase the amount of the oil (blend). We were previously told that not much oil was used in the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville dough. In that vein, I considered 1% oil to be a small amount but I might also consider 2% oil as being a small amount. So, maybe lowering the hydration 1% and increasing the oil blend by 1% might be worth trying at some point.

From the looks of the finished pizzas, it seemed that the thickness factor was in the ballpark. Did you find that so?

I do not think that the somewhat different amounts of toppings on the two pizza made a big difference between the two pizzas you made. From what I have read and seen, it appears that the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville pizzas have consistently firm crusts for most toppings combinations, and certainly for the plain cheese and tomato pies. I did read that when multiple toppings, and especially ones with high water contents, are used on De Lorenzo/Robbinsville pizzas, the slices/pieces can be droopy from time to time. But that is something I would expect, at least some of the time.

Also, can you comment on how the pizzas tasted, both in absolute terms and in relation to the two De Lorenzo pizzas you had recently?

Peter


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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #588 on: September 11, 2013, 05:29:02 PM »
Peter....after all this work you've done on Delorenzo's....it really is time for you to get out here and visit the place. Who knows; they might even answer some questions for you if you tell them you moderate Pizzamaking.com. Maybe you could even call them. They might be flattered, though I'd be surprised if they really had the hydration numbers, etc. But, what's the harm.

Otherwise your just Dancin' in the Dark, as a poet who was born not that far from Robbinsville called one of his songs....just sitting 'round trying to make this pie..you need a NJ dough "reaction"...

Just curious, have you ever called places like Delo's that everyone loves...and just asked them basic questions? The worst they could do is say....sorry. Just a thought....to avoid dancing in the dark.
Stuart

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #589 on: September 11, 2013, 08:27:14 PM »
Norma,

Thank you very much for conducting the two experiments using the Sloan and Robbinsville dough balls. I was anxiously looking forward to seeing and analyzing your results.

In retrospect, I think it was a good idea for you to use the same dough ball weight for the two pizzas. That way, we could see the effects of the different hydration values (actual and "effective") on the final results. Unfortunately, because of the unusual temperature and humidity conditions you experienced at market yesterday and their effects on the dough balls and skins, including bubbling, I am not sure what factors governed the final results you achieved and what, if any, changes to the dough formulations might be called for or suggested by your results. It may well be that you will be better served if you conducted the experiments at home where you would be better able to control the operating environment. Also, you would be able to make a two- or three-day cold fermented dough that would be similar to what De Lorenzo/Robbinsville is said to be using. Moreover, since you indicated that you have no plans to offer tomato pies at market, maybe a home setting is better for your purposes. There may be other perils to a home environment, such as not having the proper oven to bake the tomato pies, but you at least know and have pretty much all of the right ingredients. 

Returning to the hydration issue mentioned above, if your results suggested that the hydration value of the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone dough formulation should be lowered in order to get a more uniform crispiness across the entire pizza, then something else in the dough formulation would have to be increased. And, since there is no sugar in the dough from what we have been told, that would mean that the amounts of salt, yeast or oil, or a combination thereof, would have to be increased. Increasing the amount of salt and/or yeast while keeping them at functional values would not be enough. Rather, it would mean having to increase the amount of the oil (blend). We were previously told that not much oil was used in the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville dough. In that vein, I considered 1% oil to be a small amount but I might also consider 2% oil as being a small amount. So, maybe lowering the hydration 1% and increasing the oil blend by 1% might be worth trying at some point.

From the looks of the finished pizzas, it seemed that the thickness factor was in the ballpark. Did you find that so?

I do not think that the somewhat different amounts of toppings on the two pizza made a big difference between the two pizzas you made. From what I have read and seen, it appears that the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville pizzas have consistently firm crusts for most toppings combinations, and certainly for the plain cheese and tomato pies. I did read that when multiple toppings, and especially ones with high water contents, are used on De Lorenzo/Robbinsville pizzas, the slices/pieces can be droopy from time to time. But that is something I would expect, at least some of the time.

Also, can you comment on how the pizzas tasted, both in absolute terms and in relation to the two De Lorenzo pizzas you had recently?

Peter

Peter,

I know I had some problems with the heat and humidity yesterday, but I have no idea why the Sloan dough ball bubbled in the deli case.  That deli case is kept cold because all the drinks stored there are kept really cold for customers.  Customers comment that my sodas and water are colder than most other food stands.  I can understand why the De Lorenozo/Robbinsville/Hudson dough bubbled at the ambient room temperature yesterday because it was very hot. 

Maybe it would be better if I didn't do anymore experiments for a De Lorenzo/Robbinsville/Hudson clone pizza.  I wonder how there would have been a two or three day cold ferment at Hudson years ago when there sure probably would not have been enough refrigeration to do that.  If I recall right years ago most pizza businesses did not have a lot of refrigeration space. 

I don't know if you recall, but my home oven sure doesn't get up to 550 degrees F and is very anemic in temperatures.  I am not sure either if I can get the right bake temperatures and right bake times in my BS.   Both of those would be more variables until I could figure out how both of my ovens work for any formulation you might have in mind. 

I really have no idea if my results suggest that the hydration value of the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone dough formulation should be lowered to get a more uniform crispness across the entire pizza.  Since we were previously told that not much oil was used in the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville dough maybe there is no use trying more experiments.   

I did think the thickness factors were in the ball park.  Thanks for telling me you do not think the extra toppings on the two pizzas made a big difference between the two pizzas I made. 

The reasoning as why I would not offer a De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone pizza at market if we were able to create one is because I don't think enough customers in my area really like really thin pizzas and I already have two doughs to handle and don't want to have to handle having more ingredients on hand all the time.  Right now my boardwalk style of pizzas are gaining in popularity and I don't want to mess that up because customers are telling me that they are the best pizzas they have eaten.  Who knows if that will continue, but at least in the last two months I had many favorable comments on the boardwalk style of pizzas I am making now from customers from all over.  I had many customers ask me if I have a regular pizza shop somewhere.

To answer your question on how both pizzas tasted in absolute terms and in relation to the two De Lorenzo pizzas I had recently is the Sloan clone dough pizza tasted very close to me to the pizza I ate at De Lorenzo/Robbinsville, except there was not enough of char on some of the edges and bottom crust.  I have no idea if other members might think that though, because I only ate one pizza at De Lorenzo/Robbinsville, so I am no expert on how they are supposed to taste.  To compare how the Sloan clone dough pizza tasted in relationship to the pizza Trenton Bill and I tried at De Lorenzo/Sloan I posted before I really didn't like their pizza and thought the one I tried yesterday was much better.  I sure have no idea how De Lorenzo/Sloan pizzas taste across the board, because I only tried one and our pizza sure wasn't very dark in the rim crust or bottom crust.  Maybe I am not even the right person to evaluate either pizza because I haven't tried them enough times.  To me and Steve the De Lorenzo/Robbinville clone pizza was almost like any other pizza in that is was somewhat soft in the middle crust, but with a little crisp or crunch on the rim crust.  The cheese and sauce blend did give the pizza a nice different taste though. 

To comment a little more I think even with the higher temperatures and humidity yesterday there is still something wrong with the Sloan clone dough ball in how it acted.  It was not elastic or extensible enough.  I think that the skin would have wanted to fall apart too quick if I fooled around with it too much.

Maybe testing should go to Stuart since from now on since he knows more about De Lorenzo/Robbinville/Hudson pizzas and was given more information.  As Stuart just posted I guess we are Dancing in the Dark.

I am not usually a person to give up, but there seems to be two many different things said about De Lorenzo/Robbinsville/Hudson pizzas to have enough information to figure out it all out.

Norma 
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #590 on: September 12, 2013, 07:49:42 AM »
Stuart,

I have been involved in reverse engineering and cloning pizzas of others for many years. And, to be honest, a good part of that time I danced in the dark. Until Norma came along, I pretty much danced in the dark alone. When Norma arrived on the scene with the desire to make pizzas that she might be able to sell at market, I at least had a dance partner--one who had access to professional ingredients and a commercial deck oven no less-- but we still spent a good part of our time dancing in the dark. The reality is that people do not easily and willingly part with secrets of their businesses. They might tell you that their pizza dough is made up of flour, water, yeast, salt and maybe oil and/or sugar, and "a little of this and a little of that", but all that does is describe the haystack. The needle that I want is the baker's percents. Some of the younger pizza professionals have learned how to use baker's percents, most likely because of people like Tom Lehmann who spent years getting them to understand and use baker's percents, but the old timers were (and still are for the most part) volume oriented. If you ask an old timer about baker's percents, you are likely to draw a blank stare or they may tell you they have no idea of what your are talking about. Instead, they might talk about or show you water containers and measuring cups and bags of flours.

Over the years, I have spoken and/or exchanged emails with countless people from all parts of the pizza business in the U.S. (and occasionally in Canada, the UK and other companies in Europe via email), including ingredients and equipment suppliers and vendors, pizza operators, food brokers, an occasional executive chef, and customer service reps. Of these, I would say the least productive sources of information on dough formulations have been pizza operators and customer service reps. Often, they simply don't know the answers to questions posed to them, or they will politely say that they don't know even if they do. Sometimes, rather than say that they don't know the answers, I think that they just guess and end up giving you information that is either wrong or conflicts with information from other parts of the same enterprise. I also think that some people try to throw you off of the scent by intentionally giving answers that are wrong. Customer service reps are especially good at not revealing the trade secrets of the companies they work for because they are trained not to to do so. Once in a while someone will slip up and reveal a useful piece of information, but that does not happen very often.

It takes time to successfully reverse engineer and clone pizzas of others, especially when your are on the outside looking in. A while back, while I was at Craig's Pizza Summit 2, I had the pleasure of talking with Zane and Brandon Hunt. These are guys who moved from the Detroit area to Austin, Texas to start a business (called Via 313) that was to sell Detroit style pizza. They now have two mobile pizza operations and are in the process of starting a fixed (non-mobile) pizzeria. They have received national acclaim for their pizzas. They were very open with me and most likely would have answered all of my questions. However, I joked with them that I was not going to ask them questions about their pizza dough, and that I would just reverse engineer and clone it. But when I asked the Hunt brothers how long it took them to come up with the dough formulation they used in their business, my recollection is that they said that it took them two years. And these are guys who had spent most of their lives in the Detroit area and had eaten and studied the Detroit style pizzas of all of the big names in the Detroit area. They spent a lot of their time in their kitchens making test pizzas and getting feedback from the people who ended up eating the test pizzas.

Peter



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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #591 on: September 12, 2013, 08:15:30 AM »
Norma,

Whatever you decide to do at this point is fine with me. With all of your work and family obligations, you already have a lot on your plate. And, if anyone deserves to take a break or breather, you do. I thank you for all that you have done, not only on the De Lorenzo project, but on all of the other projects on which we collaborated (and often danced in the dark :-D), and in everything else that you have done on the forum. You have been an inspiration to many of our members. Like Walter (waltertore), you are one in a million.

As for me, I will perhaps just labor on in search of more answers. Until the weather cools down, I will play around with some more test doughs, one of which will be a dough with a lower hydration value and a bit more oil, as I mentioned yesterday. In retrospect, I think that it was a good idea to make the Sloan dough. The results you achieved with that dough may be telling us that the answer may lie in something between the Sloan dough and the Robbinsville dough.

Peter

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #592 on: September 12, 2013, 09:50:25 AM »
Norma,

Whatever you decide to do at this point is fine with me. With all of your work and family obligations, you already have a lot on your plate. And, if anyone deserves to take a break or breather, you do. I thank you for all that you have done, not only on the De Lorenzo project, but on all of the other projects on which we collaborated (and often danced in the dark :-D), and in everything else that you have done on the forum. You have been an inspiration to many of our members. Like Walter (waltertore), you are one in a million.

As for me, I will perhaps just labor on in search of more answers. Until the weather cools down, I will play around with some more test doughs, one of which will be a dough with a lower hydration value and a bit more oil, as I mentioned yesterday. In retrospect, I think that it was a good idea to make the Sloan dough. The results you achieved with that dough may be telling us that the answer may lie in something between the Sloan dough and the Robbinsville dough.

Peter

Peter,

I am not ready to throw in the towel yet, but when you mentioned maybe I might be better off taking my experiments to my home environment it made me think of more variables I would have to deal with in trying to use my home oven or BS to make more De Lorenzo clone attempts.  I could try a formulation in my BS when I understand how it works more.  I enjoy trying to try to clone or reverse engineer other pizza businesses pizzas, although sometimes I am not the best in knowing what to try to do and sometimes lead us on a wild goose chase with information I give.  I know we have often danced in the dark here on the forum, which has been fun.  You know much more information about how to go about cloning or reverse engineering pizzas than I ever will.  I have enjoyed working with you on all of the reverse engineering or cloning projects we have worked on together.  I am not really ready for a break or breather.  Having something to occupy my mind is what keeps me going and I always like to learn anything about pizza dough and pizzas.   

I am not sure how valid this blogger post is, but he says the two De Lorenzo's did employ similar pizza making techniques, formulas and recipes at both locations.  He goes on to say that he thought additional De Lorenzo outposts have surface as well.
 
http://www.johnandelana.com/blog/2012/2/17/capital-pizza-de-lorenzos-in-trenton-new-jersey.html

Also, another reason in my opinion that doesn't make much sense is articles like this one on Slice http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2005/01/delorenzos-toma.html  that says that the correspondent said he had been patronizing De Lorenzo/Hamilton for about 15 years and said the slice he had some cornmeal he guessed to keep it sticking to the to the peel or oven and the slice stood straight out and that there was charring on the rim crust and bottom crust.  That wasn't the case in the pizza Bill and I shared at De Lorenzo/Sloan, but if that poster had eaten there for about 15 years he must have know what he was talking about.  As I posted before that other customers pizzas at De Lorenzo/Sloan looked darker than ours did, so I sure don't know how they would have tasted compared to the one Bill and I shared.  The poster goes on to say that every bite snapped, crackled and popped.  He says more too in the article on Slice about the sausage part of the pizza. 

He then goes on to post about the pizza he had at De Lorenzo/Hudson.  If both pizza photos from De Lorenzo/Hamilton/Hudson are compared those pizzas look very similar to me except the one at Hudson had a little bit less edge rim than the one from De Lorenzo/Hamilton.  He also comments that the pizza at De Lorenzo/Hudson was thinner and says what I guess meant there was is an inconsistent crunch sometimes at De Lorenzo/Hudson too.  On the commentors Slice Keith W. goes on to report what they thought of De Lorenzo/Hamilton pizza.  Keith also commented on the crispness of the crust, but said the blandness of the crust is what killed it for him.  That is the same thing Bill and I experienced at De Lorenzo/Sloan the blandness in the crust in addition to I don't think our pizza was baked enough. 

More commentors on that article post that Hamilton Ave was more consistent.  I am not sure, but it sounds like to me that the commenter The Kitchin worked in the kitchen at De Lorenzo's and he is the dude that ran the back room.  I wonder how we could talk to him.  The Kitchin might have now move away from De Lorenzo's by now.

I could also post more about the different tomatoes and different cheeses the two different De Lorenzo's uses now in how those two pizzas taste different, but what concerns me most is the TF and if their doughs might be very similar but not for the weight of the dough balls.

Norma
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #593 on: September 12, 2013, 12:26:23 PM »
Norma,

The two original De Lorenzo operations discussed in the blog article did, in fact, "employ similar pizza making techniques, forumulas (sic) and recipes at both locations." Both locations made 14" and 16" pizzas. Both of the dough formulations included flour, water, oil, yeast, and salt. The brand of flour used at the two locations was likely the same. The pizzas at both locations were baked in Blodgett deck ovens. The sauce at both locations was kept in large buckets from which sauce was ladled into glass measuring cups and spooned onto skins. Both locations used containers of flour on the bench to dust the dough balls/skins and both used metal oil cans and wooden peels. Both locations had antique cash registers. Someone visiting both locations and ignoring the restaurant decor and seating arrangement could easily conclude that the two locations were peas in a pod.

What may not have been evident to the writers of the blog article is the differences between the products produced at the two locations. These included different tomato products, and different crust thicknesses. There may have been other differences such as the brand of cheese. On the matter of crust thickness, if the two locations used different dough ball weights to make the same size pizzas, the thickness factors had to be different. It would be mathematically impossible to be otherwise. The Slice article you referenced, which was the article I had in mind when I commented recently about reports of a "sibling rivalry" between the two sides of the De Lorenzo/Amico clan, noted the difference between the crust thicknesses of the pizzas made at the two locations. In your recent experiment using the same size Sloan and Robbinsville dough balls to make 14" pizzas, the thickness factors were identical. The results were noteworthy because the Sloan pizza baked up with a more uniformly crispy crust than the Robbinsville pizza and without any slice droop. Unless there were other factors that were also responsible for the different results, your results suggested that the hydration of the Robbinsville dough should be reduced. That is the sort of information I was looking for.

As I mentioned before, the balance between the dough, the amounts of cheese and toppings, and the finished crust is a delicate one, and maybe even more so with the Robbinsville dough than the Sloan dough. If the dough isn't just right in terms of its fermentation condition, or if the skin is a bit larger than 14", or if the amounts of cheese and toppings are excessive, or there are a lot of wet toppings, you can end up with a finished crust that is not uniformly crisp across the entire diameter of the pizza. Since all of the pizzas are hand assembled and there is no weighing of cheese and toppings, it doesn't take much to throw off the balance. Also, the dough ball weights may not be identical, if they are even weighed to begin with. It is for these reasons that I have not paid a great deal of attention of reports on the nature of the pizzas made at the two locations, and why I have placed greater weight on the reports of our members who visited both locations over a period of many years, even decades.

Peter


Offline redox

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #594 on: September 12, 2013, 12:54:18 PM »
I don't why I get these overpowering urges to try pizzas that I've never had before. I have no way of knowing if they are accurate representations of the originals. But now, I'm going to have to try one of these soon. The BS oven at least gives me a shot at coming up with something tasty.

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #595 on: September 12, 2013, 03:21:33 PM »
Norma,

It is for these reasons that I have not paid a great deal of attention of reports on the nature of the pizzas made at the two locations, and why I have placed greater weight on the reports of our members who visited both locations over a period of many years, even decades.

Peter

Peter,

I understand you placed greater weight on the reports of our members who visited both locations over a period of years, even decades.  I won't post about what similarities there are anymore from blogs or other articles.

Norma
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #596 on: September 12, 2013, 04:03:58 PM »
Norma,

I don't mean for you to stop posting on what you find. I look for things myself all the time. But, often I can't tell how good the information is. For example, I recently found a post on a blog dated 2/14/08 that said that De Lorenzo's made 500 pizzas each night. The post didn't say which De Lorenzo's, but maybe it meant both De Lorenzo's combined (at Hudson and Hamilton), possibly on the assumption that both locations were commonly owned. De Lorenzo at Hudson had only 15 booths and tables (55 seats) and was open on only certain days and from 4PM to 9PM. And apparently only Gary and Sam made the pizzas.

I couldn't find the comparable data for De Lorenzo Hamilton, but from what I read, the Hamilton location was bigger than the Hudson location but was once described as "cozy". De Lorenzo Hamilton was open on more days and for longer hours than the Hudson location but I believe they closed between the lunch period and start of dinner. Nothing was said by the poster about pick-up pizza, but maybe the 500 number included those pizzas too. But, no matter how one analyses the data, 500 pizzas a night is a big number, especially when one considers the 8-10 minute bake times. There just wasn't enough information in the post to be able to tell if the 500 number was credible.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 04:16:25 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline BenLee

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #597 on: September 12, 2013, 05:04:53 PM »
This is currently happening right now as I watch the news, but I think its a safe bet that Maruca's just burned down along with a number of other buildings in Seaside.

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #598 on: September 12, 2013, 08:03:03 PM »
Norma,

I don't mean for you to stop posting on what you find. I look for things myself all the time. But, often I can't tell how good the information is. For example, I recently found a post on a blog dated 2/14/08 that said that De Lorenzo's made 500 pizzas each night. The post didn't say which De Lorenzo's, but maybe it meant both De Lorenzo's combined (at Hudson and Hamilton), possibly on the assumption that both locations were commonly owned. De Lorenzo at Hudson had only 15 booths and tables (55 seats) and was open on only certain days and from 4PM to 9PM. And apparently only Gary and Sam made the pizzas.

I couldn't find the comparable data for De Lorenzo Hamilton, but from what I read, the Hamilton location was bigger than the Hudson location but was once described as "cozy". De Lorenzo Hamilton was open on more days and for longer hours than the Hudson location but I believe they closed between the lunch period and start of dinner. Nothing was said by the poster about pick-up pizza, but maybe the 500 number included those pizzas too. But, no matter how one analyses the data, 500 pizzas a night is a big number, especially when one considers the 8-10 minute bake times. There just wasn't enough information in the post to be able to tell if the 500 number was credible.

Peter

Peter,

I see what you mean about not knowing how good the information is.  Thanks for telling me what you recently found.  I agree with you that 500 pizzas a night is a big number, especially when one considers the 8-10 minute bake times.

I think I was trying to make a point in what I saw at both De Lorenzo's locations and I am not sure if my eyes could tell the differences.  I should have taken a video at De Lorenzo/Sloan of the assemblers pressing on the dough balls and opening the skins like I did at De Lorenzo/Robbinsville.  What I saw and can't be sure about is those dough balls looked the same to me in hydration and the way they performed that they did at De Lorenzo/Robbbinsville.  I know I really have no way of knowing if they actually felt the same though, or were the same hydration because I did not touch any of the dough balls from De Lorenzo/Robbinsville.  I had already deleted photos on my memory stick so I would have had enough room to take another video, but I thought we really were not interested in seeing what or how the dough balls performed when opening them at De Lorenzo/Sloan. 

Norma
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 08:08:15 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #599 on: September 12, 2013, 08:06:58 PM »
This is currently happening right now as I watch the news, but I think its a safe bet that Maruca's just burned down along with a number of other buildings in Seaside.

BenLee,

Thanks for posting.  My daughter told me to turn on the TV awhile ago.  I watched and also think it is a safe bet to say that Maruca's burned down along with a number of other buildings in Seaside Heights.  They sure had their share of bad luck in Seaside. 

Norma
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