Author Topic: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's  (Read 78095 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline redox

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1051
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #100 on: August 05, 2013, 05:53:19 PM »
Maybe members can help me think up a name for my BS.  I am not sure what I want to call it, but guess it will be a mans name since I am going on a date with the BS. 
Norma
Stones MacKenzie?



Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #101 on: August 05, 2013, 06:58:45 PM »
those look great Norma

Thanks Deb! 

Norma

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #102 on: August 05, 2013, 07:00:23 PM »
Stones MacKenzie?

Jay,

That is a really good sounding name for my BS. ;)  I see Mackenzie means “fire born; son of the wise ruler”.   >:D http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/0/Mackenzie I think people would get a kick out of watching a fire breathing pizza grill.  For a girls name of Mackenzie it can mean the fair one. 

I will seriously think about your name for my BS. 

Norma

Offline redox

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1051
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #103 on: August 05, 2013, 07:32:23 PM »
Jay,

That is a really good sounding name for my BS. ;)  I see Mackenzie means “fire born; son of the wise ruler”.   >:D http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/0/Mackenzie I think people would get a kick out of watching a fire breathing pizza grill.  For a girls name of Mackenzie it can mean the fair one. 

I will seriously think about your name for my BS. 

Norma
It sounds like you've given it more thought than I did.  :-D
Those books that give the meaning behind names can be scary accurate. My name means "Witless Worm." See what I mean?

scott123

  • Guest
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #104 on: August 05, 2013, 08:22:09 PM »
I think I like NY style pizzas best now since I have the BS to experiment with, but I can always change my mind.

Not to sound like a broken record, Norma, but, if you want to take your market pies in a more BS direction (which I think you should), I can help.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #105 on: August 05, 2013, 08:32:13 PM »
It sounds like you've given it more thought than I did.  :-D
Those books that give the meaning behind names can be scary accurate. My name means "Witless Worm." See what I mean?

Jay,

Why do you choose that name for my BS if you really didn't give it much thought?

I see what you mean about the meaning of your name, but really don't think that fits you.  My name means rule, pattern and standard.  I am none of them.  I did find that Norma is usually credited to Felice Romani, who is said to have created the name for the Vincenzo Bellni opera Norma.  Maybe there is some Italian in me I don't know about.   :-D

http://wiki.name.com/en/Norma

Norma

Offline slybarman

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1060
  • Location: Maryland
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #106 on: August 05, 2013, 08:43:06 PM »
Norma - the crumb on those pies is phenomenal. I am jealous.
Are you sold on the Blackstone?

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #107 on: August 05, 2013, 09:01:54 PM »
Norma - the crumb on those pies is phenomenal. I am jealous.
Are you sold on the Blackstone?

Steve,

Thank you for the kind words!  I am sold on the Blackstone.  I know I would not be able to make those same pies in my deck oven, home oven, or my BBQ grill set-up.  I even dislike going back to my deck oven tomorrow after playing around in the BS.

I think after members play around in their BS more, there will be many temperatures and formulations to try out.

Norma
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 06:11:50 AM by norma427 »

Offline juniorballoon

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 329
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Duvall WA
    • Sirfoodalot
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #108 on: August 06, 2013, 12:13:41 PM »
Norma, Your pies look great and are what I will be aiming for. I'd like to bake at around 650 to 700. Does the stone just keep getting hotter or is there a way to set the flame low enough that get a constant temp?

Thanks,
jb


Offline redox

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1051
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #109 on: August 06, 2013, 07:20:03 PM »
Jay,

Why do you choose that name for my BS if you really didn't give it much thought?

http://wiki.name.com/en/Norma

Norma
I meant that it just popped into my head without much cogitation. I didn't think I was choosing a name for your BS, just giving you an idea to get the ball rolling.
Btw, what dough are you using for your wonderful NY pizzas? I think this is the style that I'd like to work on the most. It's been years since I've been to NY but I do remember their exceptional pies. Your NY style is coming along beautifully.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #110 on: August 06, 2013, 10:02:24 PM »
Not to sound like a broken record, Norma, but, if you want to take your market pies in a more BS direction (which I think you should), I can help.

Scott,

Sorry I missed your post last evening.  You are not sounding like a broken record, but am not sure if you want me to mod my market oven.  I really don't want to mod my oven at market, because I have other repairs to do first at market.  What other ideas do you have to get a NY style pizza like I got in the BS?  I did sell out of pizzas today and had many favorable comments about my pizzas, so I am not even sure if I really want to change them either.

Norma

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #111 on: August 06, 2013, 10:15:29 PM »
Norma, Your pies look great and are what I will be aiming for. I'd like to bake at around 650 to 700. Does the stone just keep getting hotter or is there a way to set the flame low enough that get a constant temp?

Thanks,
jb

Juniorballon.

Thanks for saying my pies looked great!  I had better results at baking the second pizza at around 637 degrees F than the higher temperature of the first pizza.  The bottom crust was better in my opinion and so was the rest of the second pizza.  I really don't know what the best temperature is to bake a NY style in the BS.  I have to play around with that more to see if I can even get the same results as I did.  The stone did keep getting hotter until I turned the red knob down.  I tried the dial first, but the temperature didn't go back enough for me.  I really don't know if the formulation I used helped or hurt.  I would have thought the sugar in the formulation I tried would have make the bottom crust too dark, but that didn't happen. 

Norma

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #112 on: August 06, 2013, 10:28:11 PM »
I meant that it just popped into my head without much cogitation. I didn't think I was choosing a name for your BS, just giving you an idea to get the ball rolling.
Btw, what dough are you using for your wonderful NY pizzas? I think this is the style that I'd like to work on the most. It's been years since I've been to NY but I do remember their exceptional pies. Your NY style is coming along beautifully.

Jay,

Thanks for telling me your idea for a name for my BS just popped into your head. 

The dough formulation I used is at Reply 67 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26483.msg270476.html#msg270476 and is almost the same formulation and mixing method I use at market.  I did use All Trumps flour too, just like I do at market.  I did use a little lower TF though.  If you want me to find the link to the dough formulation I use at market, let me know.

Norma

scott123

  • Guest
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #113 on: August 06, 2013, 10:47:48 PM »
Norma, the modifications I'm recommending aren't going to be easy, especially since both involve adding weight to the oven, and, if your floors are having trouble with the weight, then this will exacerbate that issue, but, if, as you consume your BS NY pies, you continue to recognize their superiority and your motivation to match these with your market oven grows, I sincerely think that if there's a will, there's a way.

Basically, as you've witnessed, if you crank the heat on the deck ovens, the bottom burns.  You can correct this heat imbalance using two methods.  The first is adding a brick ceiling.  Since your existing ceiling won't be able to bear weight, you'll have to build some sort of frame for the bricks that sits on the floor.  You should be able to test this with only a portion of the oven- maybe an 18 x 18 area. The brick ceiling is a classic approach at bolstering top heat, but the bricks aren't light.  Kenji, over at Slice, has made considerable headway proving the effectiveness of low thermal mass ceilings.  While I think the bricks are a sure fire way, you might be able to improve the heat balance with something as simple and easy as either a heavy duty foil ceiling or lightweight steel sheet ceiling that's a couple inches lower than what you have now. Both are worth playing around with.

The second method is a bit easier, but may not be quite as effective.  I'm not sure what you have under your stones right now, but I think the flame of the burner hits the exposed stones.  Whatever you have under the stone, my recommendation would be to add a steel sheet with an air gap between the sheet and stones.  This air gap mimics the air gap you get with the washers in the blackstone.

Nothing I'm recommending would irreversibly alter your oven in any way. I know you have other repairs/considerations you're dealing with, so I completely understand if you wanted to wait, but I did want to toss these ideas out there so you could mull them over.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but your "I think I like NY style pizzas best now" comment seems like it's saying "Neapolitan used to be favorite pizza, but, now that I'm doing fast NY style bakes on the BS, those are my favorite."  It feels like Steve's modded grill pies planted the seed in your mind of what fast baked NY style can be, and the BS is proving it beyond any shadow of a doubt.  If this is indeed, where you're preference is currently at, then you and I are in exactly the same place.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 11:26:30 PM by scott123 »

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #114 on: August 06, 2013, 11:27:41 PM »
Norma, the modifications I'm recommending aren't going to be easy, especially since both involve adding weight to the oven, and, if you're floors are having trouble with the weight, then this will exacerbate that issue, but, if, as you consume your BS NY pies, you continue to recognize their superiority and your motivation to match these with your market oven grows, I sincerely think that if there's a will, there's way.

Basically, as you've witnessed, if you crank the heat on the deck ovens, the bottom burns.  You can correct this heat imbalance using two methods.  The first is adding a brick ceiling.  Since your existing ceiling won't be able to bear weight, you'll have to build some sort of frame for the bricks that sits on the floor.  You should be able to test this with only a portion of the oven- maybe an 18 x 18 area. The brick ceiling is a classic approach at bolstering top heat, but the bricks aren't light.  Kenji, over at Slice, has made considerable headway proving the effectiveness of low thermal mass ceilings.  While I think the bricks are a sure fire way, you might be able to improve the heat balance with something as simple and easy as either a heavy duty foil ceiling or lightweight steel sheet ceiling that's a couple inches lower than what you have now. Both are worth playing around with.

The second method is a bit easier, but may not be quite as effective.  I'm not sure what you have under your stones right now, but I think the flame of the burner hits the exposed stones.  Whatever you have under the stone, my recommendation would be to add a steel sheet with an air gap between the sheet and stones.  This air gap mimics the air gap you get with the washers in the blackstone.

Nothing I'm recommending would irreversibly alter your oven in any way. I know you have other repairs/considerations you're dealing with, so I completely understand if you wanted to wait, but I did want to toss these ideas out there so you could mull them over.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but your "I think I like NY style pizzas best now" comment seems like it's saying "Neapolitan used to be favorite pizza, but, now that I'm doing fast NY style bakes on the BS, those are my favorite."  It feels like Steve's modded grill pies planted the seed in your mind of what fast baked NY style can be, and the BS is proving it beyond any shadow of a doubt.  If this is indeed, where you're preference is currently at, then you and I are in exactly the same place.

Scott,

I knew the modifications for my deck oven wouldn't be easy.  :-D  I am not sure if the weight of my oven is giving me the problems with my floor, or if it was all the rain that came in from my vent that caused the problems with my floor.  My floor is sinking under the pizza prep fridge too.  I like your ideas, but don't really want to add anymore weight right now to my deck oven, unless I get my floor problems resolved.  If I have to take all of my equipment out of the space where my stand is and replace the floor, that is going to be very expensive.  What would also happen to my Detroit style pizzas that need a lower bake temperature? 

I don't think there is anything under my stones now, but really don't know.  I think the stones are just supported by some kind of framework.  I really don't know if the flame hits the bottom stone or not, but really don't think it does.  I watch the flames when I light the oven each morning and they don't look nearly as high as my stone on the bottom deck.  There are side places where the heat travels up and then some kind of holes I guess that help the top of the pizza brown. 

The reason I said I like NY style pizzas now best was because this was the best NY style pizza I have ever eaten.  I still like Neapolitan pizzas very much and Craig's Neapolitan pizzas wowed me, but my heart is still with a good NY style pizza.  I know I said before that Steve's modded grill NY style pizzas were the best I had ever eaten, but the BS has changed my mind on that.  I can't wait until Steve has the time to come and try either my doughs or his in the BS.  He is going on vacation next week and is busy at home right now, so it might be awhile until he can come to my place.

I am glad we are in the same place.  I still have to do more experiments with the BS for a NY style pizzas.  As I said, I really don't know if I can repeat my results.

Norma

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #115 on: August 07, 2013, 12:07:25 AM »
Scott,

If you already didn't look how my GP-61 countertop deck oven is built and where the bottom stone is compared to where the flames are, I think in these diagrams on this link it shows what is above the flames.  http://www.webstaurantstore.com/PDF/155GP51.pdf

Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12492
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #116 on: August 07, 2013, 08:08:19 AM »
As I said, I really don't know if I can repeat my results.

Norma
I think that is the best part(besides NP capability)of the BS oven. Everybody is showing remarkably consistent results....pie after pie after pie.  :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #117 on: August 07, 2013, 09:11:09 AM »
Bob,

I agree the BS seems really good at baking different style pizzas at different temperatures, but the difference in the temperatures I used with the same dough did me give different results, although it might not be apparent from the photos.  I am not sure if my different results were from the different toppings I used on those two pizzas, or if it was from a temperature difference that gave me different results.  I know I had similar results when making white pizzas before.  The white pizzas I made before had better oven spring and looked and tasted better overall.  I did post about that before on different threads and never figured out what made those differences in white pizzas.  :-\

Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12492
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #118 on: August 07, 2013, 09:19:08 AM »
Bob,

I agree the BS seems really good at baking different style pizzas at different temperatures, but the difference in the temperatures I used with the same dough did me give different results,

Norma
No doubt Norma. This is only like what, your second bake? It won't take Norma long to find her sweet temp. and then you stick with it and the BS will/has been giving consistent results. That's what I'm saying.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #119 on: August 07, 2013, 09:51:10 AM »
No doubt Norma. This is only like what, your second bake? It won't take Norma long to find her sweet temp. and then you stick with it and the BS will/has been giving consistent results. That's what I'm saying.

Bob,

I understand what you were saying now.  I made NP pizzas first, then frozen dough pizzas and then the NY style pizzas.

Norma

Offline redox

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1051
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #120 on: August 07, 2013, 12:15:50 PM »
Jay,

Thanks for telling me your idea for a name for my BS just popped into your head. 

The dough formulation I used is at Reply 67 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26483.msg270476.html#msg270476 and is almost the same formulation and mixing method I use at market.  I did use All Trumps flour too, just like I do at market.  I did use a little lower TF though.  If you want me to find the link to the dough formulation I use at market, let me know.

Norma
Norma,
I made a Lehman dough before I asked you about what formulation you use, so after I make this one, I'd like to try your formulation. I really like Chicago thin crust, particularly Garvey's version but NY is the style I most want to reproduce. Since my home oven can't get to 700° the BS is perfect for the job. I'll take a cue from you and start a thread to show what I'm turning out. Hopefully, I'll get some advice about how to improve it. Thanks for showing me where your dough formulation is located.
Jay

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #121 on: August 07, 2013, 04:17:55 PM »
Norma,
I made a Lehman dough before I asked you about what formulation you use, so after I make this one, I'd like to try your formulation. I really like Chicago thin crust, particularly Garvey's version but NY is the style I most want to reproduce. Since my home oven can't get to 700° the BS is perfect for the job. I'll take a cue from you and start a thread to show what I'm turning out. Hopefully, I'll get some advice about how to improve it. Thanks for showing me where your dough formulation is located.
Jay

Jay,

I think almost any Lehmann dough formulation would work in the BS.  There is nothing magical about the formulation I used. 

I think if you want to make NY style pizzas in your BS you should start your own thread.  Keep notes on what temperatures you bake at and also the formulations you use.  I think you will get advice from other members if something doesn't turn out right for you.

Best of luck!

Norma

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #122 on: August 10, 2013, 11:01:19 AM »
I mixed two NY style doughs this morning both using 70/30 All Trumps and Occident Flour.  Both formulations are about the same, except for the Ischia preferment was used in the one formulation.  I was not sure of how much preferment to use to do a comparsion to using IDY to do a bulk ferment, so both dough balls won't be the same, because the preferment dough is going to be controlled temperature fermented in bulk, then balled and controlled temperature fermented again.  I used Craig's mixing methods of mixing both doughs, but the IDY version will be cold fermented.  I wanted to see if when using Craig's method of mixing the IDY formulation if it will give me a better dough that is easier to open.  Both doughs had the delayed method of adding the oil.  I also want to see if using the Ischia preferment will give a better tasting crust on the pizza, with a controlled temperature ferment.  So far Craig's mixing method gave me a dough and dough ball with the IDY that seems much better.  Both dough balls are going to be the same weight.

These are the formulations I am using, how the Ischia starter looked before being used, the preferment dough right out of the mixer, then the preferment dough to be controlled temperature fermented, the dough with IDY right out of the mixer and then the dough ball when it was balled and oiled after the stretch and folds.  Both doughs needed two sets of stretch and folds after letting the dough rest after it came out of the mixer.  Both doughs were mixed with the flat beater only and both doughs used cold water.

The dough balls will be used in the BS later tomorrow to make pizzas if all goes well.

Norma

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #123 on: August 10, 2013, 09:36:21 PM »
These are photos of the Ischia preferment NY style dough after it was controlled bulk fermented for about 12 hrs., then balled.  The controlled ferment was at temperatures between 62-66 degrees F.  The next photos are of how the NY style dough that had the IDY added as the yeast looks after about 12 hrs. in the fridge.  I had thought the NY style dough would ferment a little slower, but there are too many people in and out of the fridge and it is full, so I guess it is fermenting faster than I would like.

I am going to measure how high my bottom stone is raised tomorrow.  I didn't change it any since last week.

Norma

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24066
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Getting the Blackstone oven from Cabela's
« Reply #124 on: August 11, 2013, 10:04:55 AM »
These photos show how the NY style dough ball with IDY and the NY style with the starter are fermenting after about another 12 hrs.  They both look to be fermenting about the same, but the starter dough is much softer.  The IDY photos are first and the starter photos are next.  The last photo shows how far my steel plate is away from the bottom of my BS.

Norma


 

pizzapan