Author Topic: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments  (Read 39584 times)

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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #180 on: August 16, 2013, 10:30:44 AM »
LOL


Offline red kiosk

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #181 on: August 16, 2013, 10:51:07 AM »
Still though, there's got to be a real simple way to (dye?) that top stone.

Not cheap, but enough for the BS forum members who want it, if we share the cost and ship it around .

http://www.rumford.com/store/firebrickstain.html

Take care!

Jim
The pathologically precise are annoying, but right!

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #182 on: August 16, 2013, 11:10:48 AM »
Not cheap, but enough for the BS forum members who want it, if we share the cost and ship it around .

http://www.rumford.com/store/firebrickstain.html

Take care!

Jim

But I wonder if heating would release volatiles that could get into your food.

Offline red kiosk

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #183 on: August 16, 2013, 11:33:40 AM »
But I wonder if heating would release volatiles that could get into your food.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe after a few high temp cycles, the initial volatiles would burn off. They also glaze firebricks per custom order, so maybe they would black glaze the top stone if it was sent to them. Just a thought.

http://www.rumford.com/store/glazed.html

Jim
The pathologically precise are annoying, but right!

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #184 on: August 16, 2013, 12:12:07 PM »
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe after a few high temp cycles, the initial volatiles would burn off. They also glaze firebricks per custom order, so maybe they would black glaze the top stone if it was sent to them. Just a thought.

http://www.rumford.com/store/glazed.html

Jim
I think that is a good thought Jim...if the BS stone is "glazeable", just take it to a local pottery supply place, no?
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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #185 on: August 16, 2013, 12:13:19 PM »
I am an engineer by education... But I have to say... Too much geekiness going on and not enough pizza making.

 :chef:
There are many other BS threads to get that jones off.  ;)
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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #186 on: August 16, 2013, 02:47:42 PM »
I think that is a good thought Jim...if the BS stone is "glazeable", just take it to a local pottery supply place, no?

yes glaze is a great idea... It would be able to handle the high temps, and would be safe as glaze is used for dishes all the time.  I'm sure a local pottery supply place would know exactly what to use.  From a heat transfer perspective, a flat black glaze that could soak into the porous structure (similar to a wood stain) would be ideal.  Of course, the emmisivity varies with wavelength, so that things that look black/dark to the eye aren't necessarily "black" in the IR, but i wouldnt worry about that (main thing being you don't want it glossy).  It would be good to measure the emissivity of a glazed stone though.

Offline Tampa

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #187 on: August 16, 2013, 03:41:01 PM »
Eighth grade science class taught me heating up a magnet generally causes it to lose it's magnetic properties.
Google Curie Temperature.

I'll bet C.Bob is mad about that.  We'll have to find a way around Madame Curie, or C.Bob's branded assortment of Chauflector accessories is in jeopardy.

Here's a quick look at candidate magnets.  I we'll need about 500o C to save Bob.  Does anyone have experience with Samarium-cobalt magnets?  I think Samarium is our best bet based on the oxidation note below.

Magnetic properties
Some important properties used to compare permanent magnets are: remanence (Br), which measures the strength of the magnetic field; coercivity (Hci), the material's resistance to becoming demagnetized; energy product (BHmax), the density of magnetic energy; and Curie temperature (Tc), the temperature at which the material loses its magnetism. Rare earth magnets have higher remanence, much higher coercivity and energy product, but (for neodymium) lower Curie temperature than other types. The table below compares the magnetic performance of the two types of rare earth magnet, neodymium (Nd2Fe14B) and samarium-cobalt (SmCo5), with other types of permanent magnets.[see picture below]

Samarium-cobalt magnet
Samarium-cobalt magnets (chemical formula: SmCo5), the first family of rare earth magnets invented, are less used than neodymium magnets because of their higher cost and weaker magnetic field strength. However, samarium-cobalt has a higher Curie temperature, creating a niche for these magnets in applications where high field strength is needed at high operating temperatures. They are highly resistant to oxidation, but sintered samarium-cobalt magnets are brittle and prone to chipping and cracking and may fracture when subjected to thermal shock.

(Ok, nobody shock it!)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 08:33:24 AM by Tampa »

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #188 on: August 16, 2013, 03:46:27 PM »
I'll bet C.Bob is mad about that.  We'll have to find a way around Madame Curie, or his branded assortment of Chauflector accessories is in jeopardy.

Here's a quick look at candidate magnets.  I we'll need about 500o C to save Bob.  Does anyone have experience with Samarium-cobalt magnets?  I think Samarium is our best bet based on the oxidation note below.

Magnetic properties
Some important properties used to compare permanent magnets are: remanence (Br), which measures the strength of the magnetic field; coercivity (Hci), the material's resistance to becoming demagnetized; energy product (BHmax), the density of magnetic energy; and Curie temperature (Tc), the temperature at which the material loses its magnetism. Rare earth magnets have higher remanence, much higher coercivity and energy product, but (for neodymium) lower Curie temperature than other types. The table below compares the magnetic performance of the two types of rare earth magnet, neodymium (Nd2Fe14B) and samarium-cobalt (SmCo5), with other types of permanent magnets.[see picture below]

Samarium-cobalt magnet
Samarium-cobalt magnets (chemical formula: SmCo5), the first family of rare earth magnets invented, are less used than neodymium magnets because of their higher cost and weaker magnetic field strength. However, samarium-cobalt has a higher Curie temperature, creating a niche for these magnets in applications where high field strength is needed at high operating temperatures. They are highly resistant to oxidation, but sintered samarium-cobalt magnets are brittle and prone to chipping and cracking and may fracture when subjected to thermal shock.

(Ok, nobody shock it!)
After having thoroughly researched the candidates I believe I will delegate the final decision to my crack team of most capable experts Dave and CDN.
Thank you for your patience.  8)


Magnet schmagnet....whip out the 'ol Bazooka Joe man.  ;)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 04:03:28 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Tampa

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #189 on: August 17, 2013, 01:55:14 PM »
I'm putting the quest for high temp magnets on the back burner for now.  I've searched a fair amount for Samarium Cobalt magnets, and the inexpensive stuff is limited to 572F.  That may not be enough headroom.
Dave


Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #190 on: August 17, 2013, 02:35:01 PM »
I'm putting the quest for high temp magnets on the back burner for now.  I've searched a fair amount for Samarium Cobalt magnets, and the inexpensive stuff is limited to 572F.  That may not be enough headroom.
Dave
When I used to race slot cars we'd send our magnets off to get them supertized....guess that wouldn't work huh?   :-\
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Online tinroofrusted

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #191 on: August 17, 2013, 03:01:42 PM »
Visiting Phoenix, just got my son a BS and we put it together today, baking tomorrow.

Chau.......knock knock

Will you visit Pizzeria Bianco while you're in Phoenix?

Offline Tampa

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Re:Gas Leaks, Adjustments, Natural Gas Conversion
« Reply #192 on: August 17, 2013, 03:18:00 PM »
Fun with gas.

Some may remember that my Blackstone had a pinhole gas leak near the rubber hose connection.  The kind staff at Griddle Guru were quick to send me a replacement thin-wall tube and I finished installing it this morning.

If you have a similar leak, or if you have flashback (aka flaming knob), or if you smell propane, youíll want to read on, but before you do, please turn off the gas to the grill.  If what follows seems too complicated, donít attempt the repair.

To replace diagnose and repair most gas leaks, other than a tube leak, youíll need to gain access to gas control valve.  I think the easiest way is to just use a ľĒ drill and drill off the heads of the aluminum rivets.  Aluminum cuts pretty quickly, and all you need is the outside heads to spin (off), then use a punch or pliers/dikes to pull the backsides of the rivets off.

Once inside, youíll see the control valve.  Referring the numbers in the picture below: the yellow #2 shows the where the tube provides gas to the control valve.  There is a hole between the black tube and the silver/gray control valve which feeds the gas into the system.  To replace the black tube, you only have to remove one 8mm bolt, and the head of that bolt is shown immediately to the right of the yellow #2.  Loosening that bolt loosens the clamp, and thus releases the end of the tube.  It is a bit of a puzzle at first to snake that tube out of there, but all you need to do, is remove the rubber gas line and remove that bolt.

Moving on to red #2.  Look closely and youíll see a brass hex head just under the red #1.  That is the gas orifice and it is properly sized to jet propane.  Notice that the orifice is pulled away from the proper location (inside the hole just to the right of the red #1).  Pulling this away gives easier access to the 8mm bolt Ė and youíll want all the access you can get.

If you want to convert the Blackstone from propane to natural gas, Iím told all you need to do is to drill out that orifice with a 1/16 inch drill.  Iíve done this once on another project, and I didn't even need a power drill.  Brass is a soft material, so I just held a quick-change (hex head) drill and spun it in by hand.  Access to the orifice is easy when you remove the pipe clamp (#2 above) because the entire valve body comes out.

Now is a good time to check for that gas leak.  Hook up the tank line and spray soapy water on the area marked by yellow #2 and black #6.  If the solution bubbles, thatís the leak.  The junction at yellow #2 between the black thinwall and the valve is sealed by a rubber O ring (itís not exactly an O ring, but you get the idea).  If bubbles form near black #3, then the control valve shaft is leaking.  FWIIW, I did have a few bubbles at #3, but not enough to get excited about.

When it comes time to button up the front, there are lots of options.  Harbor freight sells aluminum rivets and a tool for a nominal amount.  Alternatively if you are a hoarder like some people, go into the shop and grab eight stubby, fat SS screws scavenged from some other stupid project and use those (or stop by Ace hardware and pick some up).

One other thing, when you reconnect that rubber gas hose from the tank to the grill DO NOT use the provided rubber o-ring.  The joint seals better without it, per the tech at Griddle Guru.  I tried connecting both ways, and concluded leaving the o-ring off, was the better choice.  Iím sure I violated some code somewhere, but I put a little bit of anti-seize (see google images) on the threads and bull nose so the whole thing went together like butter.  If you think codes are for military communications, be sure not to get anything inside the bull nose Ė you donít want slop plugging the orifice.

Hope that helps.

Dave
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 03:45:58 PM by Tampa »

scott123

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #193 on: August 17, 2013, 03:31:46 PM »
Well done, Dave.  Fantastic post. This should clear up the flashback problem.

I can't believe they put all this behind a riveted cover.

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #194 on: August 17, 2013, 03:40:53 PM »
Dave, nice post.  I was considering converting to NG, but at present I can only put my grill so it gets either NG or plug in electric for the turntable, and I am more worried about electric, so I am staying with propane for now .   When I looked into converting,  I checked online and found a chart of sizes for different levels of NG  http://www.hvacredu.net/gas-codes/module2/Gas%20Orifice%20Capacity%20Chart.pdf   While I read about drilling out to 1/16 on some websites,  since it is a 60,000 btu burner,  the chart says it needs more like a #30, which is just above 1/8 at a 7 inch pressure of NG.  I also read conflicting info on whether a regulator was needed, and decided it wouldn't hurt to get one,  Lowes sells a kit with the regulator and quick connect hose -  http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=63693-40307-700-0819&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=4573820&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1  though you would still need to get some fittings.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #195 on: August 17, 2013, 04:06:01 PM »
Dave here are a few photos of my chauflector.  Each finger has 2 bends.  The main bend is about 45 deg with the tips of each finger bent in some more.

Offline Tampa

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #196 on: August 17, 2013, 04:25:08 PM »
Dave here are a few photos of my chauflector.  Each finger has 2 bends.  The main bend is about 45 deg with the tips of each finger bent in some more.

Thanks JT, great photos.  I was a tad late to the party in adopting the Chauflector, but I'm with the program now.  I'm assuming that, in your usual manner, you tested several configurations and like this one best.  Latebloomers would be wise to just go with it, isn't that so?

I did figure out how to hold a cutoff tool in one hand and a crutch in the other, thus dispensing with the glowbar.  I just couldn't take the flow constriction anymore; plus the backpressure diverted the flame to behind heatshield.  The glowbar was causing the outside paint to blister.

Dave 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #197 on: August 17, 2013, 04:56:40 PM »
Thanks JT, great photos.  I was a tad late to the party in adopting the Chauflector, but I'm with the program now.  I'm assuming that, in your usual manner, you tested several configurations and like this one best.  Latebloomers would be wise to just go with it, isn't that so?

I did figure out how to hold a cutoff tool in one hand and a crutch in the other, thus dispensing with the glowbar.  I just couldn't take the flow constriction anymore; plus the backpressure diverted the flame to behind heatshield.  The glowbar was causing the outside paint to blister.

Dave

Dave I still don't know how essential this mod really is considering it's purpose is to deflect heat away from the center of the pie and onto the cornice (rim) of the pizza to prevent burning of the cheese and aid in top crust browning.

You have shown that you can likely prevent cheese burning by lowering the steel plate so that there is aout 3/8" gap between the bottom of the steel plate and the metal lip of the mouth of the oven.

Also a few members have shown that NP pizza can indeed be made with an unmodified oven. 

I made this chauflector mod back when I didn't know better and had my steel plate raised about 3/4" up.  Now I have it lowered but still using the chauflector mod.   The specific angle you see happens to work for me, for my particular setup, for the style and size of pizzas I make (230-235gm).   For success to be had with this deflector, it is incumbent upon pizza positioning as well. 

I think the specific angle of the fingers itself is not as important as getting to know one's oven and the mods one chooses to employ.  Know what you are doing and why.  If one uses a 90 degree angle on the fingers and sees that the crust is burning too quickly in under a minute, then common sense should prevail and the angle of the fingers decreased.  Pizza making has been, is, and always will be trial and error

I hope that wasn't too long and answers your questions.  And Dave, I appreciate your enthusiasm and experiments.  Happy pizza baking. 

BTW, I will attempt to bake a 16" NY style pizza in the BS  tomorrow.  For this particular bake, I may opt to remove the chauflector mod and see what happens.

Chau

Offline Tampa

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #198 on: August 17, 2013, 05:59:14 PM »
Great description, thanks for the detail Chau.
Dave

Offline bfguilford

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Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #199 on: August 17, 2013, 07:15:41 PM »
You have shown that you can likely prevent cheese burning by lowering the steel plate so that there is aout 3/8" gap between the bottom of the steel plate and the metal lip of the mouth of the oven.

Also a few members have shown that NP pizza can indeed be made with an unmodified oven. 

I made this chauflector mod back when I didn't know better and had my steel plate raised about 3/4" up.  Now I have it lowered but still using the chauflector mod.   

Chau:

So is your thinking that 3/8" is the optimal spacing for an unmodified BS? I just popped in my bearing before trying it out, and lo and behold, I'm at 3/4". I also have washers sitting under the stone.

Barry
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