Author Topic: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started  (Read 13064 times)

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Offline Cettastomatopies

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Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« on: August 27, 2013, 10:59:56 AM »
Taking over a failing pizzeria in NJ, pizza had no flavor, no air pockets, just flat, slight crunch and tasteless.
Maybe that's why they are going out of biz, including a absentee owner.
Water is very different in NJ vs NY where I'm from.
Can anyone kindly donate some 50lb flour commercial dough recipes to get me going?
I would greatly appreciate it!!!  :) ???


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 11:06:17 AM »
Taking over a failing pizzeria in NJ, pizza had no flavor, no air pockets, just flat, slight crunch and tasteless.
Maybe that's why they are going out of biz, including a absentee owner.
Water is very different in NJ vs NY where I'm from.
Can anyone kindly donate some 50lb flour commercial dough recipes to get me going?
I would greatly appreciate it!!!  :) ???
Chuck,

It might help possible responders to know what style or type of pizza you are after.

Peter

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 07:43:35 PM »
Thanks Peter,
         NY style and Sicilian pies will be the norm.
Also water here is high in clorine.
Any advice?
Thanks !

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 07:49:19 PM »
How versed are you at making pizza on a commercial scale?  I am thinking not very versed or you would not be asking these kinds of questions.  If this is so, I would hire someone skilled in the field to train you.  I was raised in Essex County and in the pizza business.  If you come out of the gate flat you are doomed.  Scott123  here knows a ton about NY style pies and I think lives in the area.  Maybe you can hire him to get you up and going?   Good luck!  Walter
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 07:51:03 PM by waltertore »

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2013, 08:00:37 PM »
Yes Walter I am new at pizza making.
I was a cook in a four star Italian restaurant working for an executive chef that worked for Tom Collichio of "Top Chef " the famous judge". I learned a tremendous amount about rustic homemade Italian food, but no pizza.
I have made bread loaves but I need to master pizza and I know its a craft and art and takes practice.
So with that any advice on NY style pizza dough recipes.
Gold medal all trumps 50lbs I will probably start with. My demographics of customers probably won't pay for Tipo 00 cost.


Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 08:02:43 PM »
Scott123 it is.
Thanks let me reach out to him.
Maybe he will consult for me.
Thanks Walter

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 08:38:49 PM »
Nice backround!  You will figure it out.   Where in Jersey are you?  I am now in Central OH and this is an area where you can learn on the fly.   I worked with a wide  array of cooks including french chef Laurent Manrique and his failed fois gras endevour in Sonoma, Ca, all the way to Stubbs of TX BBQ fame.  Walter
http://www.sfgate.com/restaurants/article/Animal-rights-vandals-hit-chef-s-home-shop-2560809.php
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 08:42:28 PM by waltertore »

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 09:05:13 PM »
Nice. You learned a thing or two around the kitchen!
I'm in old bridge, NJ it's middlesex county, central NJ .
The pizzeria I'm looking to close on is in Brick, NJ
"Jersey Shore". And no I hope I never meet any of those
casts members who give Italians a bad name.lol
I can get around the kitchen, but pizza is gonna be my new hobby
And of course I have to make a name and reputation for myself
If I'm going to succeed.
I'm always learning which is why I came to this forum for help
And advice.
Thanks for responding Walter.

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 09:07:18 PM »
Hey walter,
is water an issue in ohio for good pizza making?
or do you learn to get around it by tweeking your dough recipes.


Offline Chaze215

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 09:08:37 PM »
Cetta, Scott is your go to guy for knowledge of NY style pizza. He has helped me tremendously in the past. Where in NJ are you opening this place? I'm in NJ as well. 
Chaz

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 09:13:35 PM »
hey chaze!
        Scott sounds like a popular guy around here, definitely I hve to reach out to him.
How about you? What town are you in? What exit? haha

Offline Chaze215

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 09:59:07 PM »
Exit 82  ;D
Chaz

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 10:05:20 PM »
Chaze,
Toms river area?

Offline Chaze215

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 10:27:00 PM »
Yes...where are you and where's the new pizza joint located?
Chaz

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2013, 05:55:33 AM »
Hey walter,
is water an issue in ohio for good pizza making?
or do you learn to get around it by tweeking your dough recipes.

I grew up in Bellville and later South Orange.  My parents retired to Toms River.  IMO the shore area pizzas are not near as good as the NYC area pies.  I find it hard to get a good pie down that way.   I use Newark (OH) city water with no issues.  I think the NYC water thing is way overblown and part of the "line" one gets when asking a pizza maker in that area how they make their pies.  One of the funniest I have is when I asked a guy what temp he baked at.  He responded 1,000 degrees.  His ovens, blodgetts, only go to 650.   Walter

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2013, 06:59:28 AM »
Walter and Chaz, thank you for your kind words.

Chuck, my NY style pizza recipe can be found here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20732.msg206639.html#msg206639

The baker's percentages are listed, so you should be able to scale it up to a 50# bag of flour.  It's written for home use, but works just as well in a quality deck oven. If you have any problem scaling it up, let me know.

It's a slightly lower protein flour to All Trumps (Spring King flour, which I highly recommend), but, other than that, it's not really that special of a recipe and is similar to most NY style recipes that you find on this forum.

While having a decent recipe helps, truly NY style pizza typically lives or dies on the characteristics of the oven. A good deck oven will give you a balanced, relatively fast bake- the speed of the bake helps to promote oven spring- the air pockets the current pizzeria is presently lacking. Do you know what brand and model of oven you're inheriting?

While I applaud your initiative, and I feel strongly, with the right pizza, you can dominate that area, I have to be honest- this isn't going to be easy.  There's a couple really strong places in that area (such as Denino's) and even mediocre NJ pizzerias tend to generate a lot of brand loyalty that can be difficult to compete with.  Will you be changing the name of the pizzeria?

I think the NYC water thing is way overblown and part of the "line" one gets when asking a pizza maker in that area how they make their pies.

While the typical dissolved mineral content discussions are generally BS, chlorine, especially the chlorine you find in parts of NJ, is a valid concern.  My tap water here in Morristown is like drinking a swimming pool.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2013, 07:55:05 AM »
Scott:  You are welcome.  Your passion and knowledge is a great resource.   I never noticed the Toms River public water to be overly chlorine tasting.  Neither in South Orange or Bellville.  The Newark Ohio water is low too.   I know one guy here that makes terrible pizzas and has some sort of de-chlorinating system.   When my band was passing through Palm Springs one day about 35 years ago we found a pizzeria there that supposedly Sinatra brought in.  The guy claimed to have his water trucked in too.   I agree with not having pizzeria experience and hitting the NYC area is going to be tough.   Ideally Cettastomatopies can hire someone to run things till he gets it down.   I have worked in artisan commercial bakeries (upper crust in austin was one) with bread and the move over to pizza is a big one.   But I am a firm believer in dreams and to dream big!  Walter

My brothers wife is from Morristown.  Gerity is their name and her father, deceased, was big in the parks and rec.  I think they named some stuff after him.  He was an ex pro football player and a wild character. 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 07:57:16 AM by waltertore »


Offline pt

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2013, 10:19:29 AM »
I worked with a wide  array of cooks including french chef Laurent Manrique and his failed fois gras endevour in Sonoma, Ca, all the way to Stubbs of TX BBQ fame.  Walter

Walter, what year did you work at Stubbs?

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2013, 11:15:30 AM »
Walter, what year did you work at Stubbs?

PT:  I never officially worked there.  I played there with my band and would go in early and learn from him.  That was the mid 80's.  I was a full time musician most of my life, or I should say a good part of my life- I am getting older than I think :)  Walter

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2013, 09:16:02 PM »
Walter and Scott,
You guys crack me up, Scott i lost it when you were on the topic of Bruno, the eggs and all!
Hilarious!! i was wondering how six eggs would impact that much pizza dough.
Thank you, thank you for the advice and formula.
Until joining this forum, I never knew my oven that I inherit will be such a strong impact on the dough recipe, etc.
The pizza  oven in Brick are 2 Bakers prides. I have to find out the model #'s.
anyway, I will try to figure the 50lb bag formula. Im new at this.
met with Ferraro foods today, he didn't know the Spring King Flour brand. Where can I find that?
he mentioned pillsbury balancer, potentate pillsbury,bakers best pillsbury, so strong pillsbury, all trumps GM, said caputo only works well 700 degree and higher ovens.??

When and if i get established, broker is being a .... , beer and wings on me!!
Yes, chaze of course your welcome to join.

Anyone who is as helpful to me as you guys are and funny at that, are always welcomed in my house!
talk soon, and last night i fell asleep, sorry for the delayed reply.
chuck
 

Offline norma427

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2013, 08:38:14 AM »
Chuck,

I am curious about what exact type of pizza you are trying to make.  In your screen name you have part of it that says tomato pies.  Is that a type of pizza you might want to make, or do you just like tomato pies?  If it is that is a type of pizza you would like to make I have been working for a long while on tomato pies with many iterations.  I own a small pizza business at our local farmers markets.  I have made many types of pizzas that do have what I think is flavor in the crust, air pockets and a slight crunch on the bottom crust.  I also have made many iterations of Sicilian pizzas.  Do you want to use your same dough to make your Sicilian pizzas? 

Do you understand how to use the Expanded Dough Calculation Tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html  The Lehmann dough calculation tool is also good for a NY style pizza.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html  I don't make as big as batches of dough like you are going to do because my Hobart mixer is only a 20 qt.

I am using All Trumps flour now for what I call my boardwalk style of pizzas, but I have used many other flours before.  For my Detroit style pizzas, which are really a Sicilian pizza, but with a fairly high hydration I am using the Occident flour.  I can link you to where I made different pizzas.  In no way am I saying my pizzas are the best.  It is a learning process and I am constantly learning here on the forum what all goes into making the best type of pizza I can.

Norma

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2013, 10:43:56 AM »
Hey Norma,
            I'm kind of a fan of yours following you throughout the forum.
You seem to have alot of expertise and experience and most of all "the love of pizza"!!
Thank you for contacting me.
Well, I enjoy all kinds of pizza and Italian food. I grew up in Staten Island and was surrounded by mob run pizzerias. But they were real good I have to say. Since moving to new Jersey 15 years ago, I noticed that new jersey pizza was very different from New York in texture and taste.
many Brooklyn and New York "transplants" have brought there recipes and business here.
So Italian food has gotten much better.
I am told by family members in Robbinsville/Hamilton area about the original Trenton style Tomato pies you are on a journey exploring them.
They are all great!! Some better than others of course.
I fell in love with the fresh simplicity of sauce used on these tomato pies.
From what I understand with Italian directly from Italy here, that's how they make it in Italy in addition to wood fired ovens.
So, hence I used my family name, i am still indecisive if I am going to be "Cettastomatopies" but thought of it as a user name in the forum.
I would love to meet with you some time. I am always learning and it brings me joy and makes me happy to cook, talk and do anything involving food. I was a cook in Princeton called "Eno Terra", its a four star rustic Italian restaurant owned by Italians called the "MOMO" group. I just resigned to expore my Pizza venture. I have been selling insurance at the same time for income and I own a cleaning service and small party rental business in which I would like to incorporate the "pizzeria" for catering the parties.
We shall see.
I recently purchased a "la caja china" for pig roasting rentals and the pig come out in 4 hours, juicy and crackling crispy! amazing!
thats another subject.
I just tried the  expanded dough calculation on Scott123's recipe for me, check it out and see what you think. i will be using 50 lb bags, probably All trumps.

(69) 20 oz Pizza Dough Ball Recipe

Flour (100%):    23021.65 g  |  812.05 oz | 50.75 lbs
Water (63.6%):    14641.77 g  |  516.46 oz | 32.28 lbs
IDY (0.56%):    128.92 g | 4.55 oz | 0.28 lbs | 14.27 tbsp | 0.89 cups
Salt (1.75%):    402.88 g | 14.21 oz | 0.89 lbs | 27.98 tbsp | 1.75 cups
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2.98%):    686.05 g | 24.2 oz | 1.51 lbs | 50.35 tbsp | 3.15 cups
Sugar (1.05%):    241.73 g | 8.53 oz | 0.53 lbs | 20.21 tbsp | 1.26 cups
Total (169.94%):   39123 g | 1380 oz | 86.25 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   567 g | 20 oz | 1.25 lbs


Can't wait to get my hands in to find results.
Any criticism on recipe. I have no idea as you see.
Talk soon
and Thanks for reaching out, as I said to Walter, Scott and Chaze, its always good to make new friends!
Chuck

Offline norma427

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2013, 11:30:37 AM »
Chuck,

I would be glad to talk to you.  You can PM me if you want. 

Thanks for telling me more about you and your experiences. 

Do you have any other information about what family members told you about the Robbinsville/De Lorenzo's pizzas that you can share?  I agree that some of the Trenton Tomato Pies are better than others.

Your dough formulation looks fine to me.  Maybe other members that are more experienced them I am will post about it more than I can.  I have found that using that amount of IDY for a one day cold ferment was too much for me though.  Do you have a mixing method down yet?  What kind of flour are you going to try first?  One thing to keep in mind is sometimes a whole big bag of flour might not weigh the same. 

Best of luck! 

Norma

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2013, 04:06:33 PM »
Chuck: We use 62-63% water.  The dough is a bit more difficult to work when it gets well warmed up but I like the crust that way.  I agree with Norma that the yeast amount is pretty high. We use closer to 1/3 cup. I don't use any oil or sugar.  Our ovens, blodgett 1000's do a great job of browning evenly and I bet your Bakers Prides will as well. I look forward to hearing what you think of your dough.  What flour are you using?  We use either all trumps or full strenght.  Both are great IMO.   Walter "still proud to be a Jersey boy" :-D

http://soreservoir.com/history.html

one of our cheese pies
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 04:43:55 PM by waltertore »

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2013, 10:29:16 AM »
Walter,
               Those photos are great, especially your crust!
I know I have to play with the recipe.
Hey, it seems that most pizza establishments who I have been able to get info from are all using all trumps.
What is your opinion on Bromated vs unbromated?
Is the "All Trumps" bromated or unbromated?
This whole cancer talk is something I don't want to get involved with.
But from my understanding, Bromated gives so much better results.
What do you think?, I'm new on the subject.
I don't want to poison myself, family and my customers?
also, Im looking at a new site closer to home, the owner has Blodgetts, will find out what model.
Talk soon!
Chuck