Author Topic: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?  (Read 114 times)

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Offline abacus

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So,
I recently received the Blackstone oven. I tried letting it get to around 625 air temperature, took about 10 minutes of preheating.  I used perfect pizza flour pre made mixture from sur la table. I also tried Trader Joes pre made. It gets crispy brown around the outside edges no problem. The sauce and cheese bubble and start burning slightly, but the bottom still remains soft with a slight golden tan type of color. I never get the spotted crisp burnt bottom i see most of you get. Im not sure if the oven has to be hotter. I have to take the pizza out before the cheese really burns. I have 00 flour not caputo that I bought but haven't tried. I was thinking on the next pizza to just put in the dough without any topping wait till hopefully it browns a little, then pull it out and add the sauce and cheese. I've seen some of you do this. The Blackstone oven should give me a nice crust as it seems hot enough, but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I do have a little excess flour on the bottom so that it won't stick. I've also used semolina flour on the peel to help it slide around.If anyone can shed some light on this topic i'd appreciate it. thanks.


Offline mkevenson

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abacus, welcome to the forum. I do not own the BS, but, if you give us a bit more info, we may be able to direct you towards your ideal pie.
Can you provide a recipe for your dough and a work flow or process you use including ferment time and temp. Then it would be helpful if you could measure the floor heat temp in the BS just before you launch and the baking time. From your description it sounds like the top heat is higher than the floor heat. Do you have any pics both from the top and bottom of your cooked pies?

There are many experienced bakers here who use the BS and I am sure you will get some help.

Mark
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Offline jsaras

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625 air temperature? How are you measuring that?  If "crisp" is you goal, then the solution will generally involve lower bake temperatures, longer bake times and possibly the addition of some oil and/or sugar.

I preheat the bottom stone to at least 800. I then let temp drop to 725-750. I then bake withe platter turning, but no flame for 2 - 2.5 minutes.  At that point there's some browning on the bottom and the top is still pale.  I then get the flame going and I'll ride the knob while using tongs to place the pizza such that the overhead flame is hitting the rim area.  Note that I use a "cheeseflector" mod.

You could try a similar tactic, but maybe launch when the stone drops to 650-625 and let it bake sans flame for 3-4 minutes.

Yo
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Offline deb415611

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. I never get the spotted crisp burnt bottom i see most of you get.

It might also help to post a link or picture of what you are trying to produce

Offline abacus

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thanks for all the responses. So, I was using whats called Perfect Pizza Flour, from Sur la table.
it has durum wheat, king arthurs unbleached flour some seasonings. I take 3 1/2 cups of that add 1 1/4 tea of salt, 2 tablespoons of olive oil, 1 1/4 cup of warm water and 2 teaspoons of instant or bread yeast. I start the whole process using a cuisinart with the dough blade for approx 45 seconds until it creates a ball of dough. Then take it out, knead it for approx 5 min. let it rest for 5 repeat 3 more times.  I tried using the dough that day as well as making the same batch but using only 1 teaspoon of yeast. When i only use one teaspoon of yeast I have used the cold fermentation method of putting it in the refrigerator for a slow rise for three days. That came out better, but still no charr.  The Blackstone oven I left on leaving it rotating for 10 min approximately on super high flame. My infra red gun pointed at the open space said the air temp was approx 600-625 degrees. I wasn't able to get a read on the stone as when i pointed at it it said like 425, which probably wasn't accurate.  I put the pizza in it..and like i said the outside crust turned solid like brown. I saw no bubbling forming in the crust nor the pie which i've seen happen in the videos on youtube i've watched many times. The toppings melted and started boiling and the mozzarella starting spotting here and there burnt brown, I tried keeping the pie in longer thinking maybe it just needed to be in longer for the char to start taking effect on the bottom. The one thing is the dough in all cases was a little too sticky so I put a thin layer of flour on my workspace a granite counter and patted it on the bottom and top to take some of the stickiness away. After when i transfer it to the peel I put down a light layer of semolina flour. I will take some pictures next week of the result and post them in this thread.  The dough i've seen done here looks extremely silky smooth, which is the consistency i'd like to achieve as i think this may be one of the reasons, I'm not able to get to the crispness I'm attempting. So at this point thats all i can tell you.  I do have 00 flour not caputo, which i'll try next week and i ordered an electric mixer with a dough hook as i'd like the machine to knead it if possible.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:25:54 PM by abacus »

Online Donjo911

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I like Sur la Table. However, in addition to charging $10 (plus shipping cost if online ordering) is highway robbery for 3# of an AP flour blend.  I looked up this product and I think what they are stating as fact seems a bit dubious:


Manufacturer: King Arthur Flour
  • Ingredients: King Arthur unbleached flour (wheat flour, malted barley), durum wheat, inactive yeast, leavening (monocalcium phosphate, baking soda, cornstarch)
  • Note: Product contains wheat and is processed in a facility that also packages products containing eggs, milk, soy, and tree nuts
  • Size: 3 pounds
  • Made in the USA
  • BENEFITS:
    • Makes delicious pizza crusts, chewy or crispy
    • Features the ideal blend of unbleached all-purpose flour and durum flourA touch of baking powder in the formula ensures that your crust will always riseAll-natural flour contains no preservatives
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Offline mkevenson

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abacus, pointing the IR at the air is recording a temp at whatever surface is at the back of the air. The temp on the floor IS the temp you are recording with the IR gun, 425F. Your IR gun should produce a red light at the surface being measured. Bottom line, you need to get the floor temp up to at least 600F but probable more like 650F. Of course that depends on what kind or style of pie you want to bake?
In the early days of pizza making I also tried some "pizza flour". I would suggest that it is a lot cleaner for you to use regular flour of some kind and add your own ingredients, salt, yeast at a minimum, this way you know exactly what you are working with.

Mark
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Offline tinroofrusted

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Abacus, jsaras has given you the key to crispy pizza in the Blackstone. First, get it nice and hot, then cool it down to about 600F or so. Then, bake your pizza slowly, with just a very low flame. You don't want any of that jet rocket sound coming out of the burner. Another tip I just realized last night is that a lower hydration dough will lend itself to a crispier crust.  My normal hydration is around 65% (as a percentage of flour).  For last night's bake, I went down to 57% and I got a super crispy crust. Really crispy. The pizza took maybe 6 minutes to cook (which is nearly forever in the Blackstone). But it was by far the crispiest crust I've been able to make.  So, the crispier you want the crust to be, the slower you need to bake. And that means  you can't have the bottom stone too hot when you start or your bottom will burn.  So no higher than 600F, maybe even go down to 575F, but make sure you heat it good and hot before you go down to that number for the bottom stone.  You want the oven itself (top stone and interior). The preheating is important to be sure that the top of the pizza bakes right.  When you start getting even browning on the bottom and on the top crust, you can juice the flame a bit (a bit!, not too much) to get the final browning you are looking for. 

Also, I agree with ditching the Sur La Table flour. Just go with a good bread flour or HG flour. For last nights bake I used half King Arthur All Purpose and half Power Flour.  Worked out great at 57%. I reheated a slice for breakfast this morning and it was heavenly reheated.  See my post on last night's bake here. I guess Aimless Ryan and Andrew Bellucci know what they are talking about! 

Online Donjo911

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For last nights bake I used half King Arthur All Purpose and half Power Flour.   See my post on last night's bake here.

TRR, Would you mind sharing what your bakers %'s were for your flour percentages.  I'm going to try a blend in my next batch and would appreciate your input on the matter. I'll check the KA flour data in comparison so I get a close match to the same Power flour/AP flour blend.  Thanks in advance!
Cheers,
Don
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How do you spot a Norgay?
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Offline tinroofrusted

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I used half of each, so it would have been 28.5% Power Flour and 28.5% King Arthur AP.  I used this recipe, but I did a 12 hour preferment of a pinch of yeast mixed into 1/4 of the recipe flour (again, 50-50 Power and KAAP) and an equal amount (by grams) of water.  Then just subtract your preferment amounts from the final dough recipe quantities. 


Online Donjo911

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I used half of each, so it would have been 28.5% Power Flour and 28.5% King Arthur AP.  I used this recipe, but I did a 12 hour preferment of a pinch of yeast mixed into 1/4 of the recipe flour (again, 50-50 Power and KAAP) and an equal amount (by grams) of water.  Then just subtract your preferment amounts from the final dough recipe quantities.

Thanks TRR - Perfect!!
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Offline abacus

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sorry that as a newbie i may sound stupid, but first off thanks for all the responses. I see that when everyone talks about how much of the ingredients they use..they always refer to percentages, like 63.5 per cent water ..just an example. How does one translate that into actual measuring amounts. I do much better with 1 1/4 cups for instance and how many teaspoons I need ect. Just wondering how to translate this information into real life measurable amounts. And what is power flour ? thanks

Online Donjo911

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abacus,
Sorry that I bombed your thread here.  The %'s folks are referring to are bakers percents.  They are used to get consistent results as you scale up or down a recepie.  This means that 60% flour is 60% of the total formulation regardless if you are making one 20 oz. dough ball or 200 x 20 oz dough balls.  It's also how all the other ingredients are expressed as a percentage of the weight of your total flour weight.  Flour is always the first thing measured against in a US formulation (European countries frequently use water as their basis for measurement.)  You should consider the purchase of a scale that can weigh down to Grams but also in other measurements (oz, Kg, Lb, etc.)  This will not only help you be sure that you are following recipies but it will also ensure that your measurements are very precise.  I use a scale from MyWeigh - the KD-8000. It is about $40. it' is somewhat unique in that it will calculate the Bakers %'s for you.  You may want to consider this model as it makes measurements very easy.
Cheers,
Don
Few great accomplishments are achieved single-handedly, Most have their Norgays.
How do you spot a Norgay?
You start with the people with the funny names.

Online Donjo911

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And what is power flour ?
Power flour is a brand name for a flour product produced by Pendleton Mills. Also referred to as PMF.  This is a flour high in gluten. Many on this forum will talk about High Gluten flour as a way to make stronger dough for New York style pizza.  As TRR and jsaras have said in your thread - when you're starting out almost the last thing you want to mess around with is flour.  (That that from a guy who did not follow the advice and delayed his learning about pizza dough by 6 months or more.)  If you use a standard flour from the grocery store like an All Purpose flour - you'll get good results. The prevailing wisdom on the forum is that only when you have a handle on how your dough develops, how/when/why your yeast performs well, mixing and kneading time to get good gluten development in your dough, how long to ferment, etc.  then it may make sense to move onto a different type of flour.  I read this advice from many of the experts on the forum and sadly, ignored it.  I think you'll be very happy with something like a General Mills Gold Medal or other AP or Bread flour from your local store.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Don
« Last Edit: Today at 04:52:56 PM by Donjo911 »
Few great accomplishments are achieved single-handedly, Most have their Norgays.
How do you spot a Norgay?
You start with the people with the funny names.

Offline tinroofrusted

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Donjo I think you might have meant to say 60% water rather than flour, correct? We don't want to confuse abacus any more than he was before.  Abacus, as Donjo said, when we discuss baker's percentages here we are always referring to an ingredient's relationship to the total flour used in the recipe. So for example in my recipe, I used a quantity of water that is 57% of the total flour. If I had used 1000 grams of flour, then I would use 570 grams of water. If my salt is 2% of my total flour, then I would use 20 grams of salt in the above example.  So to translate into real world amounts, you have to figure out how much dough you want to make, and work back from there. There are some great calculators here that will help you figure out how much of each ingredient you will need.  You do need to use a scale for this method but it is really much better and easier to weigh ingredients. I use the OXO scale and it works great. 

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Jsaras--   - I use a "cheeseflector" mod.   That's the same as Chausflector, right? How did you make that and attach it? How does it hold up in the high heat? Hope this is still on topic here..

Online Donjo911

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Donjo I think you might have meant to say 60% water rather than flour, correct? We don't want to confuse abacus any more than he was before.  Abacus, as Donjo said, when we discuss baker's percentages here we are always referring to an ingredient's relationship to the total flour used in the recipe. So for example in my recipe, I used a quantity of water that is 57% of the total flour. If I had used 1000 grams of flour, then I would use 570 grams of water. If my salt is 2% of my total flour, then I would use 20 grams of salt in the above example.  So to translate into real world amounts, you have to figure out how much dough you want to make, and work back from there. There are some great calculators here that will help you figure out how much of each ingredient you will need.  You do need to use a scale for this method but it is really much better and easier to weigh ingredients. I use the OXO scale and it works great.

 ^^^
I just picked a random number. In hind-sight that was an error.  Your explanation is much more clear.  Thanks!
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How do you spot a Norgay?
You start with the people with the funny names.

Offline jsaras

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I cannibalized the blade from a cheap cheese grater that I got from the 99 cent store.  Works great.
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