Author Topic: New New Yorker!  (Read 344 times)

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Offline nybz

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New New Yorker!
« on: September 12, 2013, 12:44:30 AM »
Hello All,
I'm Ben :)
First I want to thank you all already for the wealth of information I have learned before even this first post!!
My story here goes that my family has a kosher catering company and we have contracts with several kosher schools.  For the past few years we have been buying about 50 pies a week and sending them to the schools.  This is expensive! we buy the pies at $13.5 each!!!
The way I saw it was with our current infrastructure we would be able to cut our costs substantially.  I took on the task of learning to make and prepare all these pies and will be officially doing so shortly.  It's probably a crazy undertaking to go from making a few 12" pies on a brick lined oven at home, to make 50 a week of a quality that is NY pizza. 
Tomorrow will be my most hopeful attempt, and I will post pictures when I'm able.  I plan on making five 18" pies.  I currently have the five dough balls fermenting in the fridge.
I will be baking them at the max temp(650? it's faded off) of an old twin deck countertop bakers pride with two new fibrament stones. 

Here's what I made my dough with
2000g Spring King Flour
1100g Warm water
~0.4g IDY
22g Salt
31g Sugar
31g Oil
About 24 hours to ferment overnight. 

Each dough ball was roughly 1.5lbs.  So that will give me a slightly high thickness factor of about .83?
Sauce will just be out of whatever can I have already in stock, and the cheese is currently a kosher one I don't remember the brand, but I plan on searching out Polly-O as I hear it is now an acceptable level of kosher!!


scott123

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Re: New New Yorker!
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 07:56:40 AM »
Ben, welcome to the forum. I applaud your entrepreneurial spirit.  Not only will you be able to make pizzas at a fraction of the price that you're paying, I have no doubt that you'll make a superior product.

Your approach needs a little fine tuning. You're heart's in the right place and you seem to be grasping some pretty advanced concepts (such as a hot oven, spring king flour and thickness factor), but there are a few areas that need tweaking.

First of all, there's nothing wrong with a thickness factor of  .083 for starting out (and then going thinner as you get more comfortable stretching), but this recipe isn't .083.

Make sure you're using the dough calculator

http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html

Other than that, your water, at 55% is kind of low for NY style, your yeast is very low (for a cold ferment, which, imo, is what you want to do), your sugar is high and your oil is a bit low. It's not the worst recipe, but it's skirting the extremities of the style- I would pull everything in to be a bit more traditional. Something like this:

Five 18" pizzas:

Flour (100%):
Water (61%):
IDY (.3%):
Salt (2%):
Oil (3%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (167.3%):
Single Ball:
1789.53 g  |  63.12 oz | 3.95 lbs
1091.62 g  |  38.5 oz | 2.41 lbs
5.37 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.78 tsp | 0.59 tbsp
35.79 g | 1.26 oz | 0.08 lbs | 7.46 tsp | 2.49 tbsp
53.69 g | 1.89 oz | 0.12 lbs | 11.93 tsp | 3.98 tbsp
17.9 g | 0.63 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.49 tsp | 1.5 tbsp
2993.89 g | 105.6 oz | 6.6 lbs | TF = 0.083
598.78 g | 21.12 oz | 1.32 lbs

is closer to traditional NY style. Feel free to use the instructions in my recipe:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20732.msg206639.html#msg206639

A fast bake is important to great NY style pizza, but you may not get an even bake with your oven maxed out.  The fibrament stones should help to slow things down a bit on the bottom, but you might have to bring it do to 600 to let the top catch up. It's going to take some trial and error to dial the oven in- just like it's going to take trial and error to dial in the yeast quantity so the dough is between 2x and 3x volume by the time you stretch it.

You might want to start off stretching 16" pies (use the dough calculator to reduce the dough ball weight) and then move on to 18", as 18" skins are incredibly hard to stretch.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 07:58:28 AM by scott123 »

Offline nybz

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Re: New New Yorker!
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 08:23:56 AM »
Thank you so much for your reply Scott123
About the hydration.  The weights I actually used were 1800g flour and 1150g water, however once mixed the dough was so tacky I needed to add what I estimated at another 200 or so grams of flour.  I'm thinking it might be that the past few days have been super humid here in NY. 
I do agree with everything else you said though, and it's great to have something now to adjust towards if I feel anything is off. 

My oven is preheating now, so hopefully in a few hours I'll get to see how this dough turned out and go from there.  It's exciting and I feel once I get the hang of it will be a lot less daunting then I thought it would be. 

scott123

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Re: New New Yorker!
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2013, 08:47:06 AM »
Ben, much like .083 thickness factor is a type of training wheel for stretching, 61% is kind of a beginner hydration (as opposed to the 63% that I have in my recipe).  You want to generally work with pretty tacky dough, but if you need less tackiness, go with 61% for now.  The extra oil with help with tackiness as well.

Will you be using the Baker's Pride?  How soon are you hoping to make the switch to baking all the pizzas yourself?

Offline nybz

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Re: New New Yorker!
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2013, 10:03:52 AM »
Just did a pie with the Bakers Pride, Hopefully monday I'll be doing them all!! (25 2x a week)
Attached are some pictures of the pizza pre and post bake.  I tried to show the bottom, but realize I didn't get a shot of the crumb/thickness.  Total cook time was approximately 6 minutes.  The only problem I have with it is I'd like the crust a bit browner.  That pie was eaten in about 30 seconds all with great reviews too!!

scott123

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Re: New New Yorker!
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2013, 10:14:02 AM »
Not bad. At this point, it's probably a bit better than what you buy, right?

I just noticed you referenced a 'countertop' BP.  Those are notoriously weak/crappy ovens.  The countertops have low wattage and take a while to recover between pies.  You might get better recovery with a regular home oven.

Nice stretch, btw.  Was that your first 18" pizza? If so, that's pretty impressive.

Offline nybz

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Re: New New Yorker!
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 11:38:50 AM »
Here are Pizza's 2&3, a decent side shot, a folded shot, and 4 and 5. 

Scott:
Compared to what we've been buying.... well there is already no comparison   :-D :chef:  :drool:

I think this oven is rated at 5600Watts, seems to have done a decent job, though I wasn't aiming to do 25/hr today so it had plenty of time to bounce back.  The crusts have been browning more though that it heated up more since the first pie, also the cooking time dropped to about 5minutes!

That first one was my first 18" I was happy with.  Prior to a few weeks ago I've only ever done small pies at home.  I've had a few attempts with bad dough, store bought, wrong ingredients, etc.  Usually the ones I'd try would tear well before even 15".

Thanks for being here with me on my first real day at it!!! I can't wait to read up more and fine tune it till I get a pie I love.