Author Topic: Very satisfied - please comment  (Read 3726 times)

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Online GarlicLover

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Very satisfied - please comment
« on: November 07, 2013, 09:38:56 PM »
So I switched from German Type 405 flour to Type 550. The result is noticeable improvement in dough quality, although for the first time I used a digital scale, so I'm sure this played a role as well. :D

650 g. Flour (Type 550)
400 g. Water
3.5 g. IDY
1 teaspoon oil
1 teaspoon sugar
2 teaspoons salt

This yields three medium-sized pizzas after about 15 hours cold-temp rise. The pizza in the picture was made from this dough after a room temp rise of three hours. Normally I leave it in the fridge for about 15 hours, but this time I wanted to try it only with room-temp, and it tasted super.

The pizza was topped with homemade tomato sauce, two types of cheese (Edamer & Tilsiter), salami, and jalapeno peppers. The crust, although nothing spectacular, was the best crust I've made so far. Maybe it has to do with the flour... but perhaps also with the fact that I used my new digital scale for the first time. :D Before that I've only used a simple measuring cup, which resulted in the dough almost never being the same.

The pizza was baked on a screen, middle oven rack, temp 250c for 13 minutes. So far I'm very very satisfied. The only thing I would love to be able to improve is a "fluffier" crust, so-to-speak. Is there any way to do this with my oven which maxes out at 250c?


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 11:32:24 PM »
Your pie certainly is pretty.

What do you mean by a "fluffier" crust? Can you post a picture of what you would like it to look like?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Surffisher2A

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2013, 07:08:04 AM »
Very good on opening up the doughball! I don't think i have seen a rounder pizza with such symmetrical placement of the sauce and cheese!


Offline TomN

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 11:25:13 AM »
Very nice looking pizza. Good Work!!!

TomN
PS
What is you sauce recipe? Could you share it with us? Thanks

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2013, 11:27:34 AM »
You may not know it yet, GL, but you've already figured out the most important tricks: making pizza regularly, staying active on the boards, keeping your mind very open to people's suggestions, and trying new things. This is evident in the fact that you've been a member for at least two years but mostly haven't been active until lately (and because you've been very active lately).

Just like anything else, if you don't make pizza regularly, it's hard to keep learning and improving. I haven't made a pizza in a few months, so I know if I decided to start making it again right now I'd be a little rusty at first; I'd have to refamiliarize myself with at least a few parts of the process, even though I've done some of it thousands of times over the years. Interestingly, though, I think staying current with the boards keeps me from getting as rusty as I would if I just didn't think about pizza at all during my periods of inactivity. By keeping up with the boards, I kinda still make pizza regularly in my mind, even if I don't make it in my oven.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2013, 11:37:01 AM »
I want to add one more thing to that: I learn a ton just by reading posts from newer, less-experienced members, and from looking at their pictures. So I appreciate it immensely whenever someone new comes around and sticks around. Especially people like yourself, who don't have access to the same equipment and ingredients as me. It forces me to learn things I wouldn't really be able to learn in any other way. So thanks.

Online GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2013, 07:19:59 PM »
Thank you all for your comments! This encourages me to practice and become better. :D

What is you sauce recipe? Could you share it with us? Thanks
I basically use this recipe, but minus the honey: http://www.pizzapie24x7.com/gosauce.shtml

Very good on opening up the doughball!
I learned it from this video, although I'm not as good as the guy in the video (yet):



What do you mean by a "fluffier" crust?
Well, it's hard to describe. Considering my oven maxes out at 250c/482f and considering I don't use a pizza stone, I think I'm doing a very good job. Perhaps I didn't use the right word, as fluffy is not a good word to describe it. I just meant the crust could have just a little bit more "bubbles"... although the more I think about it, it's fine the way it is. The crust is chewy without crunch, which is how I like it. On the other hand I know how to make a crunchy crust as well.

Here are some pictures of today's pies. Friends and relatives were really amazed, as was I. ;D

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2013, 08:23:52 PM »
Thanks for posting the video. As my repertoire of pizza styles has expanded considerably the last few years, from exclusively NY style to almost everything but NY style, my NY style skills have kind of stagnated in ways. Particularly my stretching skills. Actually, it's not really my skills, I suppose; it's more like my stretching direction. (I will use this opportunity to remind you that I have no clear direction. That's what 'aimless' means.)

Anyway, I like the video. I think that guy does a good job of making it easy for the viewer to understand; even experienced pizzamakers who have lost a little confidence.

Online GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2013, 09:31:13 PM »
Tell me Aimless Ryan, does my "crumb" look okay? I never paid much attention to it until now.

I'm also interested in how much truth is in this article: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/09/the-pizza-lab-how-long-should-i-let-my-dough-cold-ferment.html

Basically it says that the longer the dough cold-ferments, the more airy/bubbly the dough texture will be, and the crust will have a better (lighter) crumb. Is this true?

It also says "three to five days of cold fermentation is your best bet for dramatically improving your dough's flavor, texture, and workability."

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2013, 10:09:27 PM »
Tell me Aimless Ryan, does my "crumb" look okay? I never paid much attention to it until now.

I think it looks really good.
Pizza is not bread.


Online GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2013, 10:14:34 PM »
I think it looks really good.

Thanks! :D

What do you think about the info on the website I posted regarding cold fermentation?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2013, 10:53:57 PM »
Thanks! :D

What do you think about the info on the website I posted regarding cold fermentation?

I'm the wrong person to ask. I'm not a fan of cold fermentation.
Pizza is not bread.

Online GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2013, 11:10:39 PM »
Oh okay. :)

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2013, 11:17:49 PM »
Tell me Aimless Ryan, does my "crumb" look okay? I never paid much attention to it until now.

Man, you're putting me on the spot. I just admitted that I don't feel real confident about my own NY style pizzas these days. Too much pressure, man.

I guess your crumb looks fine. I really don't even worry about crumb, and crumb is certainly not one of the things that has made me feel uneasy about my NY style. If you buy a slice in New York, I don't think you're gonna pay much attention to the crumb. And if you do pay attention to it, I think you'll find that it tends NOT to have the open, intricate structure that a lot of members here shoot for. To me NY style pizza is about simplicity. Conversely, intricate crumb structure is about complexity and overthinking.

I haven't read the Slice article, and I've never found Slice to be a particularly useful source of pizzamaking information. To me Slice's contributors are expert pizza consumers, not expert pizzamakers. No disrespect intended. Also, I may be wrong.

I'm a pretty patient dude when it comes to making pizza, but 3 to 5 days of fermentation seems pretty pointless to me, unless it's an experiment. (Yes, I am aware that the dough I used for my two most recent documented pizzas fermented for 5 days, and I'm also aware that these pizzas were both pretty awesome.) I tend to approach my pizzamaking with an objective of trying to do what would be most practical in a pizzeria setting. And 5 days of fermentation is one of the least practical things you could ever do in a pizzeria. All that dough has to be stored for five days, along with four other days' worth of dough. That's a lot of space, and space costs money; a lot more money than you'll ever make from the dough that occupies that space. Especially in New York City.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2013, 11:37:05 PM »
...and crumb is certainly not one of the things that has made me feel uneasy about my NY style.

I want to take that back. Actually crumb IS one of the things that has made me feel uneasy about my NY style. But not in the way you might think. I feel like I've been making my NY style rims too thick, which I'd say actually contributes to a more open, complex crumb. I don't want that in my NY style pizzas.

Online GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2013, 07:08:42 PM »
Thanks for the info, Aimless Ryan. So far I've been baking my pizzas in what I thought was a pizza screen (LoL9, but actually it's a cutter pan with some holes in it: http://bilder2.eazyauction.de/gartenhaushalt/artikelbilder/4919.jpg

In any case, now I'm thinking about getting a real pizza screen, particularly this one:

http://www.amazon.de/Contacto-Pizza-Screen-Aluminium-35/dp/B002SU24WC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1384041465&sr=8-2&keywords=pizza+screen

What do you guys think about this? I mean I'm getting good results already... but I think that this pizza screen would be even better. Am I right or wrong?

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2013, 07:42:53 PM »
I thought it looked like you must have been baking on a pan, which is why I wasn't sure whether I should say 'screen' or 'pan' in an earlier post.

I have a small stack of screens like that. I used to bake pizzas on them (because I didn't know any better and because it's easier to use screens than a peel), but now I only use screens as makeshift cooling racks because I realized that the tenth of an inch or so that separates the dough from the hot stone might as well be a foot. Screens pretty much make the stone useless. Of course, you can start baking on a screen, then finish directly on the stone, but that's just not the same as baking directly on stone from start to finish.

Just keep trying new stuff, though, even if me or anyone else says it's not the best way to do it. The more different things you try, the more you'll truly understand about pizza in the end. The only reason I know I don't like screens is because I've baked countless pizzas on them. I used to consider screens an acceptable pizza-baking vessel, but now I don't (for MY pizza).

Online GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2013, 09:04:31 PM »
Screens pretty much make the stone useless. Of course, you can start baking on a screen, then finish directly on the stone, but that's just not the same as baking directly on stone from start to finish.
Oh, but I'm not baking on a stone. I stopped experimenting with it because the stone I ordered is way too small for the pizzas I make. Maybe I'll get a new larger stone or a 1/2 inch steel plate in the future. More about it in this thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,28333.msg286938.html#new

Quote
Just keep trying new stuff, though, even if me or anyone else says it's not the best way to do it. The more different things you try, the more you'll truly understand about pizza in the end. The only reason I know I don't like screens is because I've baked countless pizzas on them. I used to consider screens an acceptable pizza-baking vessel, but now I don't (for MY pizza).
I understand what you're saying... but let's say if you were not using a stone at all, would you prefer a pan or a screen? It just seems to me that a screen would work better. Please tell me your thoughts. :D

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2013, 10:08:50 PM »
... but let's say if you were not using a stone at all, would you prefer a pan or a screen?

For NY style, a screen.

Online GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2013, 10:12:59 PM »
Is aluminum the right material, or should I look for something else? I'm planning to order a couple one of these, and they're made from aluminum:

http://www.amazon.de/dp/B002SU24WC/?tag=pizzamaking-20
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 09:18:12 PM by Steve »