Author Topic: My 16 inch NY pizza  (Read 5983 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SteveVit

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Portland, OR
    • Yo!
My 16 inch NY pizza
« on: March 22, 2006, 12:46:05 AM »
I've been lurking for a while and learing so much about making pizza. I've been making pizza for about three months and my pizza has come a long way. Here is a 16 incher using a Modified NY Dough Formulation I saw on this page. The sauce is San Marzano based with onion, garlic, pork and bay leaves - a sauce handed down from my grandmother. The pizza is topped with fresh mozzarella, chopped garlic, fresh basil and a pinch of fresh oregano.

Steve


The top three Pizza
----------------------------
DiFara's (B'klyn) The absolute best! The King!
Top Road Tavern & Pizza (Trenton, NJ) NJ's best tomato pie!
Palermo's (Bordentown, NJ) NJ's second best!


Great Pizza
--------------
DeMarco's (NYC)
Patsy's (NYC)
Grimaldi's (B'klyn)
Totonno's (B'klyn)
Frank Pepe's (New Haven, CT)
Vic's (Bradley Beach, NJ)
Santillo's Brick Oven Pizza (Elizabeth, NJ)
Delorenzo's (Trenton, NJ on Hamilton Ave)

Honarable mentions
-----------------------------
John's (NYC)
Sal & Carmines (NYC)
Sac's (Queens)
Denino's (Staten Island)
Joe & Pat's (Staten Island)
Brooklyn's (Hackensack, NJ)
Delorenzo's (Trenton, NJ on Hudson St)
Delucias (Raritian, NJ)
Maruca's (Seaside Park, NJ)
Scorintino's (South Amboy, NJ)
Kate & Al's (Columbus Market, NJ)
Spirto's (Elizabeth, NJ)
Coffaro's (South River, NJ)
Pepe's (Seaside, NJ) r.i.p. 1970's
Zaffiro's (Milwaukie, WI)
Santucci's Square Pizza (Philly, PA)

Highly Overrated
L & B Spufunky Gardens (B'klyn)
Kinchley's (Ramsey, NJ)
Rizzo's (Queens)
Pete and Elda's Bar (Neptune, NJ)
Escape from NY (Portland, OR)
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy


Offline chiguy

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 560
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2006, 01:14:55 AM »
 Hi stevevit,
 It looks marvelous..
                   Chiguy

Offline SteveVit

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Portland, OR
    • Yo!
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2006, 02:06:42 AM »
Here's another 16 incher.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

Offline fliplap

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Phoenix, AZ
  • Where can I get Harpoon Ale out west?
    • AZBMW.org
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2006, 02:17:15 AM »
Thats a seriously good looking pie

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22007
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2006, 07:12:50 AM »
stevevit,

Great looking pies. You've come a long way in just four months.

Would you mind telling us which specific recipe you used and the modifications you made? I'm especially interested in how you achieved the small rim. I assume also that you used a big peel (maybe 18"?) to get the 16" pizza into your homemade "Hearthkit". Is that correct?

Peter
« Last Edit: April 19, 2006, 07:50:48 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline SteveVit

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Portland, OR
    • Yo!
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2006, 12:36:07 AM »
Yup I have an 18" peel and the dough is based on the Modified NY Formula.  The homemade "Hearthkit" is a copy cat from a posting on this site made from Red Blaze unglazed quarry tile I nabbed from Dal Tile. Squeezing a 16 inch pizza in an oven that's 17 inches deep can be tricky.

I picked up a 16x18 aluminum peel in March and started making bigger pies. I didn't realize sliding a pizza off a metal peel was going to be much different than my old wooden 14" and the first pizza I made was a mess. The pizza stuck to the peel folding the pie and spilling sauce and cheese into a big blob in my oven. The second pizza even though I thought the bottom was floured and cornmealed enough it still stuck. I was so frustrated I cut a paper bag and taped it to the peel for the next few pies. I've made 4 or 5 pizzas after removing the paper bag with success but it is very tricky to slide a 16' pie into a regular oven. My oven is 17 inches deep so there is very little room for error. In one of the photos you'll see a part of the pizza is bent up a little. I have problems either hitting the back wall or the door of the oven but I'm getting better and better at throwing a pie in there.


Steve Viterali


http://www.instawares.com/
$9.92 USD  AMM3016 Aluminum Peel w/ Wooden Handle - 16'' x 18'' - 12" Handle
$7.69 USD  Shipping
$17.61 USD Total
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

Offline SteveVit

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Portland, OR
    • Yo!
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2006, 01:26:16 AM »
I pretty much use the "Modified NY Dough Formulation for 14" Pizza" but I did change it a little. Even though the recipe states 14" the dough can be pulled to 16 inches if you work the dough right. I didn't realize I changed the original recipe until I wrote this message. I guess I was tweaking recipe and measurements in very small increments. I thought the original recipe was a bit too dry so I made some small changes. I've been sticking with the measurements from the second recipe and I really like what I've been making.

Modified NY Dough Formulation for 14" Pizza
100%, Flour (high-gluten), 10.05 oz. (284.75 g.)
56.3%, Water, 5.65 oz. (160.17 g.)
3.1%, Oil (Classico), 0.31 oz. (8.80 g.), between 1 7/8 and 2 t.
0.66%, Instant dry yeast (IDY), 0.07 oz. (1.88 g.), 5/8 t.
0.92%, Salt, 0.09 oz. (2.63 g.), a bit less than 1/2 t.
Total dough weight = 16.16 oz. (458.23 g.)
Thickness factor (TF) = 0.105


Modified Modified NY Dough Formula for two 16" Pizzas
552 g Gold Medal Bread Flour
321 g tap water
2 TBS Classico olive oil
1 tsp Instant dry yeast
1 tsp salt

I think kneading and technique make a very big difference in the end product. If you're measuring all ingredients and adding them all at once to a Kitchen Aid mixer I think you'll never develop dough properly.

I add water and salt to mixer and run at low speed while adding the flour/yeast mixture a bit at a time using the paddle attachment until I add enough flour to make a stiff batter. I'll guess you'd use about 40% of the flour, maybe less. Let rest 10-20 minutes. Get mixer going again on low speed and add flour little by little until the dough starts to stiffen a bit and it will start to what I call "ribbon" which is means the dough even though still batter like gets pulled and stretched. I usually knead for 10 minutes before I add more flour. I'll continue to add flour little by little and you'll see the dough thicken and might even ball up a little in the center of the paddle but it's still working, stretching and getting pulled - i think this is a critical part of the knead. I'll keep kneading and adding flour until it balls up and it's wadded up on the paddle. Change to dough hook and add remainder of the flour and knead for 5 or 10 minutes.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2006, 01:58:58 AM by stevevit »
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

Offline SteveVit

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Portland, OR
    • Yo!
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2006, 01:39:21 AM »
You can see the crust is a bit puffier in my first photo, that wouldn't be a bad size crust for an 18 inch pizza but I like a thinner crust for a 16 incher. It took me a little while to learn how to pull a thinner crust. I do very little palms down with the pizza draped over the knuckles stretching. Instead I flatten the dough into a disk with the heel of my palm until I have a round about 10 inches in diameter with a nice fat edge maybe 1-2 inches thick (crust). I work the edge a bit pulling with index fingers underneath the dough in a partial fist with thumbs on top pulling the fat edge apart. As the pizza gets stretched I change to a palms up and fingertips curled up a little stretching the rim, my fingertips are at the very edge of the pizza pulling the very edge of the pie. Once the dough get to about 12 or 14 inches gravity really tugs the dough and to prevent tearing I usually lower the dough so part is actually resting on the counter as I continue to pull the edge. It takes some time but it's all in pulling the edge.

I'm not the best writer so I'm sorry if my description is a bit vague or confusing. Iím no expert when it comes to pizza making but I do enjoy it. Iíve learned so much here on this site so I'd like to thank every member for making this page the very best on the internet.

Steve Viterali
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22007
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2006, 06:22:34 AM »
Steve V,

Thank you very much for your explanations and photos. They should be a big help to those who like a NY style crust with a small rim.

It took me a while to recognize the formulation for the "Modified NY Dough Formulation for 14" Pizza". The formulation is one that originated with Steve Z. (and posted on the front page of this forum) but modified to provide a thinner crust in a 14" size. I put together the modified formulation for the benefit of member PizzaEater who was looking for help in making a NY style pizza with a small, flattish rim (see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2796.msg24176.html#msg24176, and particularly Reply 3).

Since you have modified the "modified" formulation, I took the liberty of running your numbers through my spreadsheet. This is how your new version looks from a baker's percent standpoint:

Stevevit's NY Style Dough Formulation for Two 16" Pizzas
100%, Flour (Gold Medal bread flour), 19.47 oz. (551.27 g.)
58.2%, Water (tap), 11.32 oz. (320.84 g.)
5.07%, Olive oil (Classico), 0.99 oz. (27.95 g.), 2 T.
0.55%, Instant dry yeast (IDY), 0.11 oz. (3.03 g.), 1 t.
1%, Salt, 0.19 oz. (5.51 g.), 1 t.
Total percents = 164.82%
Total dough weight (for two 16" pizzas) = 32.05 oz. (908.60 g.)
Individual dough ball weight (for one 16" pizza) = 16.02 oz. (454.30 g.)
Thickness factor (TF) = 0.0797
Note: All measurements are standard U.S./metric

From the above information, you should be able to make any number and size of pizzas while keeping the crust characteristics reasonably constant. I briefly described how to do this at the abovereferenced thread, but if you need any help, let me know.

As far as your peel is concerned and the sticking problem, you might want to consider getting an equivalent-sized wood peel. I think you are OK with your metal peel for the hydration levels you are now using, but if you decide to go to higher levels, say, between 60-65%, the sticking problem is likely to get worse. I personally have several peels. One is metal but the rest are wood. I use the wood peels to load pizzas into the oven, and the metal peel to remove them (the sharp, thin metal edge makes it easier to insert under the pizzas to remove them from the oven).

I also wondered about the length of time it takes you to heat up your homemade "Hearthkit" mini-oven and whether you dismantle it to bake other items in the oven. I would think that with all the thermal mass of tile you are using that it would take some time to get the mini-oven up to temperature. Maybe in your case it is not a critical factor since your pizzas are very thin, more like a NY "elite" pizza along the lines of a Patsy's pizza.

Keep up the fine work.

Peter


« Last Edit: April 19, 2006, 07:51:39 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline iceman3876

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 36
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2006, 04:23:00 PM »
Now thats a good looking pizza...AND...Nice pictorial as well.....Thanks So much


Offline SteveVit

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Portland, OR
    • Yo!
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2006, 12:03:33 AM »
Quote
I also wondered about the length of time it takes you to heat up your homemade "Hearthkit"?

I preheat for at least an hour.

Quote
Do you dismantle it to bake other items in the oven?

Nope. I'm single and the only thing I make in the oven is pizza.

 ;D
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

Offline SteveVit

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Portland, OR
    • Yo!
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2006, 12:35:58 AM »
I fixed up my oven so I can use the clean cycle to bake. My first pizza was quite nice. The bottom was a little charred but it taste great.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3098.0.html
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

Offline Big Al

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Chicago / Houston
  • I'm a Pizza Fox
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2006, 05:05:32 PM »
how do you get the tiles not to crack?
I have tried it and my red quarry tile cracked

Offline SteveVit

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Portland, OR
    • Yo!
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2006, 01:43:23 AM »
Hey Big Al, how are you? I'm not sure why your tiles are cracking, I don't have that problem. I picked up a box of Red Blaze tile from Dal Tile and I've only had one tile crack when i moved it when it was still heated. I lined my oven with these tiles and I do not move them. What kind of tiles are you using? Do they crack from heat or when you move them?

Steve
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

Offline giotto

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 411
  • Location: SF Bay Area
  • Italy has DOC, we have NY standards.
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2006, 05:45:38 AM »
I came to the conclusion a long time ago that unless there's a fire coming out of a brick oven, there's a big difference between a char taste and a burnt taste.

My screen from a restaurant supply store has yet to break... And the bottom is always wonderfully crispy. I can control it exactly:

https://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/resize-bottom.JPG

Here's the result from a refrigerated fermentation using my old camera, which used a screen at about 540F. Toppings were added in the last few minutes, with total times around 6 1/2 minutes.  Grande cheese is normally employed, with just thin tomatoes (either Marzano, seasonal from CA farms, or as a last resort Trader Joe's unsalted CA mixed with olive oil)... White sauces are always a worthwhile venture.

https://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/traderjoe-mix.JPG

A consistent chewiness is achieved as suggested from others by starting with around 70% of the flour for a few minutes first, followed by a rest, and then final addition of the flour.  Bigas and starters produce a heck of a chew as well. As mentioned elsewhere, these techniques produce excellent results with a good bread flour, and in some cases, an all-purpose.

While the best San Francisco bakeries only use natural starters for sourdough breads, they often employ simple 1 to 2 day-old refrigerated doughs (bigas) to produce minimal acetic acid to a good Ciabatta.  I still prefer a 2 - 3 day-old refrigerated fermentation using an Active commercial yeast (that doesn't overwhelm the smell of my kitchen). When I want something slightly more complex, which is rare, I work with a short-term room temp starter.  You can always tell if dough has been refrigerated... You'll see small little bubbles evident in the result.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2006, 06:30:10 AM by giotto »

Offline enchant

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 307
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Marshfield, MA
  • World-class pizza maker in the making
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2006, 01:18:58 PM »
Big Al, there's gas in them thar tiles.  They're probably cracking as the gas is trying to escape.  With a new/unused tile, you might want to preheat it to 250 for 15 minutes.  Then 300 for another 15.  Then 350...  Once you get it up to the proper temperature, all of the gas will have had a chance to escape slowly, and your tile should be "seasoned".  From then on, you should probably be able to just fire it right up to the top temperature without any problems.
--pat--

Offline pulco

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 5
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My 16 inch NY pizza
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2006, 03:49:11 PM »
Great looking pizzas! I picked up some quarry tiles yesterday that I arranged in my stove. I think I'll pick up some extra for the second bottom layer and the sides. When people cook with pizza stones, a lot of them recommend putting one of the rack above the pizza as well. Do you think it would be beneficial to put some additional tiles on that upper rack?


 

pizzapan