Author Topic: NYC Pizza for Evelyne  (Read 10507 times)

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Offline pizzanapoletana

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NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« on: October 09, 2006, 04:53:23 AM »
Evelyne,

I had time lately to check out the old post and found your introduction in the Newbie section. I am not sure you had the chance to read my background, and myself I have only heard your name a couple of times..

Anyway, I was interested in some clarity about what you call the Lombardi/Totonno formula and what they call the NYC formula (TOM's) on this website. Are these the same thing?

You see, I believe that Gennaro Lombardi and many other pizzeria founder never made pizza in Naples. This still happen nowadays in Europe, where Neapolitan Emigrants, looking for a business opportunity and trying to fill the gap in their memories, start pizza businesses... however they had never made pizza in Naples. Neapolitan pizzamaker of the time worked in and owned their on shops, and as still happens today, all the family was involved. So there was no need for them to emigrate... The people who emigrated was people that did not really have a business or job opportunities in the unified Italy of that time.....

I believe that the idea of pizza did emigrate from Naples, but the dough tradition didn't. I am not sure Antonio Pero, being older, had actually been a baker back home and/or pizzamaker.

I would like to clarify some of the specs of this old formula you are mentioning, just to make some clarity on the similarity with the Ancient Neapolitan.

I have no doubt that having had the possibility to get a proper Neapolitan oven and their own flour, and themselves being real pizzaioli, NYC pizza would have just stayed the Neapolitan one...

Ciao
« Last Edit: October 09, 2006, 08:25:33 AM by pizzanapoletana »


Offline gottabedapan

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2006, 10:50:37 AM »
Since Neapolitan ingredients and equipment were not readily available— if they were available at all—in NYC at the turn of the 20th century, it is unlikely in the extreme—if not impossible—that NY pizza would have "just stayed the Neapolitan one."

Quote
Neapolitan pizzamaker of the time worked in and owned their on shops, and as still happens today, all the family was involved. So there was no need for them to emigrate... The people who emigrated was people that did not really have a business or job opportunities in the unified Italy of that time.

Believe it or not, people can and DO immigrate for reasons other than economic necessity.

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2006, 11:41:19 AM »
Gottabedapan,

I did not want to start a polemic, I am just expressing my view.
I did study quite in details the emigration to US and Germany of Soutern Italian after the unification of Italy as well as after the great wars. What is more I know the hystory of the 12 families that started the pizzeria phenomenon in Naples between the beginning of 1700 and the end of 1800.....

Italian ingredients were shipped anyway (see tomatoes cans, olive oil etc...) and flour was shipped the other way around after 2nd world war as part of the Marshal plan. There was no mixer being used in Italy at the time, so the main thing would have been the oven.

Anyway, all this was an introduction to the main point I would like to discuss with Evelyn, the symilarity with the old Lombardi/Totonno formula.

Ciao


Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2006, 05:47:57 PM »
I just realize that I missed the whole discussin between P. Taylor and Evelyn .... (I was in Italy at the time).

Just to add to my point above in light of reading those posts:

Gennaro Lombardi seams to have arrived in US at 14... That was an age at which, even if he had really worked in a pizzeria in Naples, would have only selected the wood for the oven and/or being shouting outside to attract clients.... So he was not a pizzamaker. He was indeed trying to replicate a food he loved from Naples, probably with some help of bakers, so I assume that even that first pizza was inspired by, but not adapted from a NApoletana.

Also Raffaele Esposito did not invent the Pizza with Tomatoes and Mozzarella, that was already around from at least 80 years earlier. Also the tomatoes were first recorded in Naples as food and in cooking in 1660 circa (All reference documented and to be included were you guys know.... ;-)

I wonder if an American writer  ??? start writing about riposo, or other things I talked about on this website, would it be properly referenced too? It has already happened with the Guide to the Food and wine of Campania, were the author has admitted researching pizza.it, but all the terminology and explanations of the "crisceto" and other authentic methodology and history was not referred back to the original writers (myself and Ciro Salvo)...

Saluti
« Last Edit: October 09, 2006, 05:50:21 PM by pizzanapoletana »

Offline varasano

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2006, 06:49:16 PM »
This is my favorite thread of all time.

Offline tonymark

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2006, 08:13:39 PM »
Jeff,

You can't possibly make a Patsy's pizza.  I don't care how many of their pizzas you ate during your childhood.  You never worked for Patsy's.
Making Pizza is not cooking, it is Performance Art!

Offline varasano

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2006, 08:42:07 PM »
LOL... Hey watch it or you'll be eating McDonald's Wed night. Are you making that arugula thing you called "a pizza"?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2006, 08:44:04 PM by varasano »

Offline tonymark

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2006, 09:46:51 PM »
I first had the arugula (I would swear that one time it was baby chicory leaves) on a flatbread (wheat-based dough topped with tomato sauce and mozzarella cook in a wood-fired oven) in the Veneto province.  If I remember correctly, the chicory was on a flatbread in Tuscany.

TM
« Last Edit: October 09, 2006, 10:25:32 PM by tonymark »
Making Pizza is not cooking, it is Performance Art!

Offline SLICEofSLOMON

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2006, 01:43:13 AM »
pizzanapoletana,

With all due respect Marco, I've been researching and making pizza since the mid 1970's. I researched and wrote the history of pizza back in the day when no one was interested in taking the tradition and craft of pizza making seriously.  I was the first to categorize American regional pizza and to write about the different Italian pizzas. Back then no one knew that there were different regional specialties. I do not claim to be the expert on Neapolitan pizza as you are, however my terms for riposo etc did not come from reading anything on this site. I learned those terms first hand from Italian pizza makers back in 1992 when I was the first American judge at the World Pizza Championship in Italy. Before that, I had adapted a "rest" period in my pizza making process that was based on Calvel's autolyse technique. I learned that from American artisan bakers. I was one of the founding members of the Bread Bakers Guild and was very interested in adapting various artisan bread techniques to pizza. The key word being "adapting" because pizza is a different animal than bread, but much can be learned from bread. My Italian experience is based on travelling and visiting with other pizzaiolos in their pizzerias.

As far as Gennaro Lombardi is concerned, he indeed was a pizza maker in Naples before he came to America. And yes, he was 15. At the time, when a man's life expectancy wasn't much beyond 42, a 15 year old was not considered a child--remember child labor? Those laws weren't passed until the early 20th century. There is a pizzeria in Naples called Lombardi's that is still owned by the family and still operates today. Lombardi first earned his trade as a baker in Brooklyn for a few years before he had the opportunity to open the pizzeria. He moonlighted at the bakery making pizza and selling it at the market below his flat for a few years. When he had the opportunity to buy the market and the building from the owner he wasn't even 20 years old. Lombardi was quite well known for sponsoring scores of young Italian men from Naples into the United States--some may have been pizzaiolos, or bakers--or not--back in Naples, but they all had to "dissappear" into the New World. Lombardi gave them room and board and trained them on how to make pizza. Anthony Pero was one of those men. He may have been a pizzaiolo before he came to the United States, but it was Lombardi who sponsored him into this country. He may or he may not have "taught" him how to make pizza, but  for sure, Lombardi already knew how to make pizza and Pero worked for him until he opened his own place in 1923. I have this information from several sources including Pero's son Jerry Pero--the legendary pizza maker of Totonno's and records from Ellis Island.

Why do I refer to this formula as the Lombardi formula? When Lombardi attempted to recreate the pizza of his hometown, he found the flour and the technology ie: oven technology to be vastly different from what he knew back in Naples. I've already posted somewhere on this site how Lombardi had to adapt Neapolitan pizza to the New World. I call it the Lombardi formula because I think it is not neo-Neapolitan but a whole new style of pizza. They called it pizza Napoletana because that is what they knew. I do not call it that, it is very unlike authentic Neapolitan pizza. Recently, people tend to blur the distinction between the two because very few people actually still remember what the old formula pizzas tasted like. The formula was almost lost back in the 80's. I've also posted about the Tom Lehmann formula, which is actually my formula. I gave it to Tom because he had no idea how to reverse engineer the type of pizza I was making in New York City utilizing the old methodology of Lombardi and Pero when I started teaching at AIB.

I know that many on this site are very into preferments--so am I, but authentic New York pizza, as it was made back in the day, was made with a direct mix method. No one was using preferments of any kind. Before refrigeration, the dough was made early in the day and used later in the day just as with traditional Neapolitan pizza. Refrigeration allowed the pizza maker to better control fermentation. Long, slow and cold fermentation influenced New York pizza makers at least 50-60 years ago. Although Totonno continued to make his dough as it was always made---with a long slow room temperature rise on the same day. Lombardi went on to embrace the refrigerated long slow fermentation method. Totonno and Lombardi were my mentors, they taught me how to make this type of pizza, it doesn't get any better than that.

And finally, I'm not sure if I'm reading what you wrote properly because I know English is not your first language, but I hope that you are not insinuating that an "American writer" such as myself is not properly referencing your posts on this site. Are you trying to say that I learned about these techniques from you and that I'm not giving you the proper credit? Do you really think that it would be impossible for me to have gone to Italy and learned these things for myself--first hand? I know that you are extremely knowledgeable about Neapolitan pizza and well respected on this site, but aside from here, I've never heard of you. I have been reading your posts since last spring and I have found them to be very helpful, sometimes condescending and quite provincial. I totally understand your zeal and passion for authentic Neapolitan pizza and I hope that you respect my knowledge and passion for all great pizza.

I encourage experimentation in the name of pizza and I am glad that there are literally thousands of you on this site who are dedicated to great pizza--Neapolitan or other.

PS: you may want to check my credentials on the History Channel: American Eats: Pizza, I helped them on the historical aspects quite a bit, and closer to home for you, there is a French documentary full length feature film coming out  on European television this fall which actually goes back to Naples and interviews the Lombardi family. The documentary will eventually be shown here as well, but probably not for a couple of years.

Evelyne




Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2006, 04:37:22 AM »
Hi Evelyn,

Thanks for replying to my message.

I respect your work and have now also read your history of Pizza from the Pizza book. We could argue extensively on the pre-America history, but that is not my purpose. I am quite glad to talk to you as I read in your posts a similar-self-confidence that has been a signature of my posts ;) I also appreciate your dedication, but let me assure that I also appreciate all baking product and flat bread and I have studied extensively also bread baking and technology, microbiology applied to bread baking as well as history and tradition.


Anyway, I would like to start by saying that my MUM family name is LOMBARDI and her Family is the first line that has the title of Marques given to them by the Arragon's.....
Having say that, Lombardi is also a common surname in the whole of Campania if not the south. The Two Lombardi pizzerias are quite recent in the "Neapolitan world of pizza" having opened in the early 1900', believe it or not, after the Lombardi in NYC. The first Lombardi pizzeria, was near Piazza del Gesú in Naples, near the current "Lombardi a Santa Chiara" but closer to the above mentioned square. It was originally a "Friggitoria" making fried pizza and contorni. The wood oven for them came later. Few years later, a close relative opened Lombardi a Foria.... I do not believe that the Lombardi in NYC was related to any of the pizzeria in Naples, that by the way were not even in The pizza business at the time of Lombardi moving to NYC (1895 or around that time). (added later) However, to complete the picture, let me add that the owner of Lombardi a Santa Chiara suggest that the Founder, Enrico, use to fry pizza from a mobile station at the port from the second half of 1800. According to the same person,  Enrico then moved to three different places before settling down in the shop near the current location;  his son Luigi, later started the woodfired oven pizzeria. Fry pizza is a parallel tradition that developed out of bakers' wife initiative.

Also, there are several books and pictures that document the work of PIzzaioli at the end of 1800s which are clear of the age related job in the pizzeria. Kids at around 10 only attracted clients by shouting outside, then they start selecting the wood, until the age of 20s when they would have probably moved to the mansion of pizzaiolo. Also note that only 1 PIzzamaker, the most experienced, was allowed to make the dough......

(amended):
Riposo applied to pizza during the mixing phase is a Neapolitan term/method, not Italian (obviously the word is Italian and means rest), and was never mentioned on any official documentation and or baking manual in Italy before Ciro Salvo and myself use it.  I have introduce the term and context to this site and now is normally used by many (even on site). The actual time is very important and is not 10 minutes either 40 (without knowing the science behind it ancient Neapolitan pizzamaker were making this way  to form a better gluten...). Yes, I was wondering if you and others researching the net to write a book on pizza (I know another three authors are doing the same at this time) would mention their sources also from websites.

Going back to your writing, for instance, you have mentioned that Neapolitan pizzaioli have emigrated in the rest of Italy and the world "exporting" the idea of Pizza Napoletana. You may not be aware of this, but the "vast majority" (amended) of these pizzerie were founded by a parallel current coming from Tramonti, near Salerno, which produce/ed a different kind of pizza.

Ciao
« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 03:38:33 PM by pizzanapoletana »


Offline Harv

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2006, 06:11:08 AM »
You may not be aware of this, but 95% of this pizzerie were founded by a parallel current coming from Tramonti, near Salerno, which produce/ed a different kind of pizza.

Marco, 
Could you provide a reference for the above statistic?
Thank you.

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2006, 06:17:54 AM »
Marco, 
Could you provide a reference for the above statistic?
Thank you.

Ok, ok, it is not guarantee 95% but it is as close as 100% it can get. Again people from all around Campania migrated and "sold" themselves as neapolitan (this still happen). I am an "Emigrant" myself.... And I am talking about the first after 2nd wolrld war and especially in Italy. If you go on the Tramonti local governement webiste you will find some info on this. Here is a link: http://www.comunetramonti.it/Comune%20di%20Tramonti%20-%20La%20pizza%20di%20Tramonti.htm

« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 08:37:20 AM by pizzanapoletana »

Offline Harv

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2006, 06:24:15 AM »
Marco,

Are you referring to the pizzerias in other parts of Italy that were opened or Italy and other countries?

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2006, 06:32:40 AM »
Marco,

Are you referring to the pizzerias in other parts of Italy that were opened or Italy and other countries?

Apologies, I should not have used a percentage and have said "vast majority". Yes I was referring to both opened in Italy (which by the way appened after the second world war) and around the world from around 1900 to 1970s. For example, the only pizzerias opened by Neapolitan pizzamakers (grown up in the pizza business in Naples) until the end of 70s start of 80s could be counted as 1 in Turin, 1 in Rome, 1 in Florence and 1 in Paris (France).

Offline pam

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2006, 01:38:43 PM »
I have been reading your posts since last spring and I have found them to be very helpful, sometimes condescending and quite provincial.

More than "sometimes" and not "quite," but "extremely."
When an eel bites your eye and the pain makes you cry, that's a Moray.

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2006, 02:00:18 PM »
More than "sometimes" and not "quite," but "extremely."

Pam,

I like to have a "provocative" tone in my post. At least I have covered large subjects on this forum, making some informative discussion. I chose to disclose some, not all, but I believe it is still much better of the misinformation and confusion there was before my posts. Many things accepted in US may not be as firstly believed...

Ciao

Offline SLICEofSLOMON

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2006, 04:16:42 PM »
"Many things accepted in US may not be as firstly believed..."

Hi Marco,

That can also be said of Italy... :)

Wow, your mom's name was Lombardi--cool. However, I do agree with you that it is a very common name. I know Lombardi came from Naples because I looked up his records from Ellis Island and I looked up Anthony Pero's as well as many other men who Lombardi sponsored into the  US (his name is listed as their sponsor). I'm not sure where you are trying to go with all of this. Are you saying that Lombardi did not know how to make pizza--that he couldn't have possibly learned enough about it as a kid in Naples to be able to make it in NYC? I am not going to argue with you regarding the working age of pizzaiolos in Naples in the 19th century because I have not researched it. I do all of my own research first hand, I do not use the internet as any kind of final word on research. I've had my own work ripped off and plagiarized constantly for the last 25 years and I can even point to those who made mistakes in taking information and then posting the error on the internet whereupon others have used that wrong source and reproduced the same error. As for the family owning and operating a pizzeria in Naples, I did not research that thread personally, so I do not have physical proof of when they had a pizzeria in Naples, however, they make the claim that they did. Families love to make claims, and I haven't proved them right or wrong. I leave that up to you Neapolitan experts.

Whether Lombardi was a full fledged pizzaiolo from Naples or not (at 15 I would not categorize him as a master by any means) it still does not mean that he did not make pizza--the same type of pizza that he grew up with and that he must have been involved with on a level that he could reproduce a version in America. He was producing pizza for several years at the bakery he worked at before he opened the pizzeria, so whether he was a master or not, didn't make any difference--he was making pizza. I have always said that the Lombardi formula is significantly different from traditional Neapolitan pizza and I stand by that. Are you trying to say that he wasn't from Naples? that he didn't know how to make pizza? I don't know where you are going with this.

I understand your wanting to be exacting when it comes to Neapolitan pizza, I feel the same way about true authentic NY style pizza, but I do recognize that there are several versions out there and that plenty of people abuse the term. I'm sure that after WW2 when many Southern Italians migrated to Northern Italy and beyond for work that many were not making what you consider true Neapolitan pizza--but that didn't stop the spread. The same thing happened in the US where the original recipe was all but lost in a sea of "New York Style" this and that. The fact is that the spread of Neapolitan style pizza throughout Italy and the world really took place after WW2. Authentic? probably not. A watered down version of the real thing? Yes. You and I are on the same side--you champion the authenticity and tradition of real Neapolitan pizza and I do the same for New York Style. As far as I am concerned, the authentic NY pizza derives from the Lombardi formula--the rest is NY "style". For example, the formula I gave Tom Lehmann was for a generic NY style pizza not the Lombardi formula.

In regards to "ripps", you are absolutely right, I did not read about it anywhere, I learned about it first hand from several pizza makers who were competing at the World Championship Pizza Contest. I spent a week with 110 pizza makers from all over Italy--making pizza, discussing pizza and exchanging ideas. Several used this technique and referred to it as riposso. We are talking about 14 years ago. I didn't give it that name, they did. So, the term has been around for quite some time. I'm sure that those pizzaiolos had never heard of autolyse, but somehow, they had figured out that giving the dough a rest produced better results. I was pretty excited to learn about this because of my experiments with autolyse. I never called it that, I called it giving the dough a "bowl rest", so when I saw these Italian pizza makers applying the same technique and calling it riposso, I began to use the term. I also use Tom Lehmann's BGD for the same process. Did Tom invent that term? I don't think so, but he uses it. I would love to read your work on the subject--where can I find it? Have you published your research yet? 

I wish I could say that publishing your work was the final word on pl agerism, but through experience, I can tell you that it is a constant problem, especially in the world of food writers who never qualify their research because all they do is rip people off without even giving them any kind of credit. I have been burned quite a bit in this respect, so I am especially sensitive to being accused of using someone else's research without giving them the credit. In this case, I came upon this technique quite independently from your research. Hey, look at it this way, great minds think alike!

Evelyne






Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2006, 04:36:59 PM »
Evelyne,

Great Post.

I did not invent the riposo method for sure but I believe to have helped make it known. I apologies if I have touched you with the "reference" thing, but I was quite puzzled when I found some of my writing re-arranged with no reference on the Campania guide I have mentioned. I am not sure if you are also referring to me, but my research was done on hard copy books. Luckly, I have also relatives in the old book trade and re-publisher of ancient book. Thanks to them I was able to find quite a lot of new material never published in a pizza book.

Going back to Gennaro Lombardi: I do not think he was a pizzamaker. Probably the son of bakers and thus undertsanding of dough making. This coupled with knowing the pizza (from a customer point of view) may have helped him creating the producct that catered for so many homesick. This still happen today. A guy in NYC now runs a succesfull pizzeria but he never made pizza in Italy (around Campania). He was an home baker from the country side (where they syill have a wood burning oven and bake bread 2-3 times a week). The thing is that Neapolitan dough making for bread, also differ from other bread style in Italy, and has a very similar hydration to pizza. Symilar hydration but different methodologies and salt/yeast quantities as well as proofing etc... So he could have started from a common root (Pizza Napoletana was started in bakeries and only in 1700s the first dedicated ovens were born)

I do believe Gennaro Lombardi was from Naples, but not really sure about being a pizzamaker...

I have also read that Gennaro may have been baking bread, but pizza was introduced to him by other immigrants from Naples... what do you know about that?

I am quite interested in NYC pizza history and how Pizza landed there... Actually, talking about the Ellis Island records, did you find that Lancieri was from Naples? Just for the record Lancieri is not a Neapolitan or Campanian Surname, but quite common in Molise and Apulia. Also this records may be not as accurate (think about The Goodfather movie ..)

Ciao

PS My mum family name IS Lombardi: In Italy women do not change Surname when married.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 04:47:28 PM by pizzanapoletana »

Offline youonlylivetwice

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2006, 04:55:08 PM »
I for one am a great big nobody, but I wanted to chime in all the same to say I really enjoy your posts Evelyne.  Incredibly well written, personable, and easy to read.  So much so I went to Amazon searching for your work.
thanks for your contributions here.

YOLT.

Offline SLICEofSLOMON

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2006, 06:14:56 PM »
Marco,

Since for now, neither of us can prove whether Lombardi was a pizza maker before he came to the States, let us drop that assumption. The fact still remains that he figured out how to make pizza, he was making it at the bakery where he worked and selling it in the store of the building he lived in for several years before he had the opportunity to purchase the building and open a pizzeria. whether he was a baker or a pizza maker back in Naples is moot since he was making pizza in the US. I have always thought that his pizza sensibilities were decidedly on the baking side--which is what made his New York pizza the archetype of all consequent NY pizza. There were other great American pizza makers who started out as bakers before moving over to pizza: Pepe in New Haven and Joe Timpone of Santarpio's in Boston. When you say that you have read that Lombardi was taught by others how to make pizza, I know exactly where that piece of misinformation comes from: Jerry Pero's nephew, who has decided to re-write the history of Totonno's for commercial gain. I got my information from Jerry Pero, not his nephew, who comes along a dozen or so years after Jerry passed away to make up his own story. I'm sorry, but I have a number of different sources from many, many years ago who all seem to have the same information:
Senior Lombardi was the teacher. I believe that on Anthony Pero's immigration papers he was listed as a "baker". The point I am trying to make here, is that this style of pizza is fundamentally quite different from classic Neapolitan pizza, the fact that Gennaro Lombardi learned how to produce it by the seat of his pants has a lot to do with his entrepreneurship and his spirit. I don't expect you to understand it as this is a typically American thing, and Lombardi was very much in control of his own destiny. He made it happen, and helped out scores of other young men who came over from Naples to start a new life.

I did not look up Lancieri's records because I believe he came onto the scene in the late 20's, or early 30's. There are those who say that he learned from Lombardi, but I have never heard this from his wife or the Lombardi family. He was also a baker before he came to the US. Lombardi stopped sponsoring men in the 20's when the new immigration quotas were established.

Last year when I was in NYC and visited with Cookie--Pero's niece, I point blank confronted her with this BS about Anthony Pero as the pizza maker and Lombardi as the "grocer". Jerry Pero told me all about his father and how he worked with Lombardi and how they worked together as pizza makers. Jerry was justly proud of maintaining the same formula as Lombardi did back in 1905--he used to brag that not even at Lombardi's do they still make it this way! When I said to Cookie, "come on, you know that Lombardi wasn't just a grocer, you know he was the one who sponsored Anthony into the US--!" She sheepishly agreed with me because she knows that I got my information straight from the horses mouth and she's also known me personally for all that time too.


Let us not forget when I was gathering all of this information 30 years ago, there was no reason for anyone to lie to me. First of all, none of the families took me seriously, they couldn't figure out why I wanted to learn about them. Many of the key family members and even some of the pizza makers were still alive and I was able to get their personal stories. I was able to check out their stories from other sources as well, so my accounts are quite accurate. But over all of these years, especially after key family members die, the family wants to profit from their reputation and that's when the %$# hits the fan. My research had no ulterior motives, I was simply trying to record the story and find out how these wonderful pizzas were actually made.

Please, no more about this ridiculous notion that Lombardi didn't know how to make pizza and had to be taught by other pizza makers--that is simply absurd.

Evelyne


 

pizzapan