Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?  (Read 162067 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #580 on: November 01, 2011, 10:05:16 PM »
My attempted MMís clone today turned out good in some ways, and bad in some ways.  The good news was it was it looked like the same color as a real MMís dough ball, and had about the same color as a MMís baked pie in the crumb. Picture 362jpg. is the saved crust crumb (that was frozen) from a real MMís pie compared to my crumb. The dough ball handled well, and could be stretched, twirled and tossed.  It could have been tossed for a long while, and I donít think it would have ever tore even if I had tossed it many more times than I did.  That darn Steve wouldnít stopped taking a video of me, after I had finished tossing the dough.

The bad things about the MMís attempt with the Homemaid molasses. was the hydration was too low in my opinion, because now the crumb was too tight and bready.  I have no idea what MM's is using in their dough besides molasses, but this crust and crumb didnít have any sweetness, even though I did used 11% Domino Homemaid molasses in the formula.  It leads me to believe that MMís must be using some kind of ďunrefined sugarĒ in their dough.  I could be wrong, and maybe they did find a ďfancy molassesĒ that I donít know about.  I would have thought that 11% Homemaid molasses would have given at least a little sweetness in the crust and crumb, but it didnít.  Maybe even Gene and Dwight are right about sorghum molasses.   ::)

Norma
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 10:09:12 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #581 on: November 01, 2011, 10:06:45 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #582 on: November 01, 2011, 10:10:11 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #583 on: November 01, 2011, 10:12:15 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #584 on: November 01, 2011, 10:15:46 PM »
Picture of MM's real pie crumb beside my crumb.

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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #585 on: November 01, 2011, 10:16:26 PM »
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Offline Biz Markie

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #586 on: November 01, 2011, 11:30:54 PM »
Sorry to hear that your crust didn't taste sweet even after all that molasses!  It sure looks tasty, though!  The color looks practically identical to the real thing, in my opinion too.

As for my attempt on Sunday, with the formula I most recently posted, it turned out really well.

I was pleasantly surprised by the dough performance, being my first time using KABF+VWG in a while.  I had been using KASL but ran out. 
The dough was easy to handle and held up to some pretty vigorous tossing (though I think I nearly put a hole in it in the end).

This was also the first time to use my brand new Fibrament stone.  I got a 16x21 stone so that it takes up almost my entire rack.  It was so nice to finally be able to slide the pie onto a big stone instead of having to precisely guide it onto a tiny circular disc.  I can't say that I necessarily saw a performance improvement or not.  . .I mean, it got hot and it cooked the pizza - nuff said!  It probably didn't preheat long enough since my new stone is so much bigger and thicker than the old one.  I also used to heat my old stone on the very bottom rack which is only an inch from the element, and I did not do that with the Fibrament since it's so honkin' heavy.

Anyway - back to the pizza.  The crust had a great texture as far as I'm concerned - not soft or bready.  A little crispiness on the outside.  Mmmm.
The crust was sweeter due to the added brown sugar, but it didn't seem to me to have that MM taste.  It may have been imagined, but I felt like I could taste the brown sugar in a bad way.  Also, the color I think was too dark/golden compared to what I've seen in my recent MM visits.  But I really am just concerned about flavor.  Oh, and I didn't miss the wheat germ.

Since I am stuck with Brer Rabbit Mild at least for now, and especially given Norma's lack of sweetness even with 11% Homemaid, I think I'll try some other additional sweetener.  Most likely honey.  If not honey, just white sugar (organic).   Or any other suggestions from out there.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #587 on: November 01, 2011, 11:47:54 PM »
....  Maybe even Gene and Dwight are right about sorghum molasses.   ::)

Norma

I am glad to hear that the last attempt did not meet your taste test for the MM crust.  At least you can mark that formulation off the list of possibilities, right ? ;)

Norma, is there any possibility that the MM pizza that you have sampled was sweet only in the outer crust?  Maybe something like a quick brush of ? (something) after the pizza exits the oven, then a non refined sugar dust is applied to the outer rim?  The only reason I mention this is that reading all the remarks about the crust, they seem sporadic about the sweetness.  That suggested something done at the store level that may not apply, neccesarily, to the exact frozen dough balls that they recieve at each store regionally.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #588 on: November 02, 2011, 08:09:13 AM »
I am glad to hear that the last attempt did not meet your taste test for the MM crust.  At least you can mark that formulation off the list of possibilities, right ? ;)

Norma, is there any possibility that the MM pizza that you have sampled was sweet only in the outer crust?  Maybe something like a quick brush of ? (something) after the pizza exits the oven, then a non refined sugar dust is applied to the outer rim?  The only reason I mention this is that reading all the remarks about the crust, they seem sporadic about the sweetness.  That suggested something done at the store level that may not apply, neccesarily, to the exact frozen dough balls that they recieve at each store regionally.

Gene,

You are right, I now can mark my last formulation off the list of possibilities.  :-D There was no sweetness in that rim, even though I thought I used a high amount of Domino Homemaid molasses in the formula.  I donít even think now that the commercial product sample I received from Malt products will give any more sweetness to the rim.  It did taste a little sweeter in a taste test, but donít think it would add much more sweetness in the final pizza rim.  I am becoming more suspicious of what MMís might be adding for sweetness.

You are right on in the sweetness can only be tasted in the outer crust, at least to me. This is just my experience, I canít speak for others that have tried real MMís pizzas.  For me, there are too many flavors going on when the rest of the slices are eaten. 

I know Peter did a test somewhere on this thread, that I think he brushed honey on the outer crust to see if that makes the outer crust sweeter. 

There are many possibilities that could be going on.  My best attempt came from adding molasses and brown sugar in my attempted MMís dough.  That pizza did really taste like a MMís pizza in the outer crust, at least to Steve and me. Sweetness levels can vary in each persons tastes, and I would guess how long (maybe 2 to 3 day ferment) of frozen dough balls can add more sweetness.  I think we still are going to have problems trying to nail this all down.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #589 on: November 02, 2011, 08:16:37 AM »
Sorry to hear that your crust didn't taste sweet even after all that molasses!  It sure looks tasty, though!  The color looks practically identical to the real thing, in my opinion too.

As for my attempt on Sunday, with the formula I most recently posted, it turned out really well.

I was pleasantly surprised by the dough performance, being my first time using KABF+VWG in a while.  I had been using KASL but ran out. 
The dough was easy to handle and held up to some pretty vigorous tossing (though I think I nearly put a hole in it in the end).

This was also the first time to use my brand new Fibrament stone.  I got a 16x21 stone so that it takes up almost my entire rack.  It was so nice to finally be able to slide the pie onto a big stone instead of having to precisely guide it onto a tiny circular disc.  I can't say that I necessarily saw a performance improvement or not.  . .I mean, it got hot and it cooked the pizza - nuff said!  It probably didn't preheat long enough since my new stone is so much bigger and thicker than the old one.  I also used to heat my old stone on the very bottom rack which is only an inch from the element, and I did not do that with the Fibrament since it's so honkin' heavy.

Anyway - back to the pizza.  The crust had a great texture as far as I'm concerned - not soft or bready.  A little crispiness on the outside.  Mmmm.
The crust was sweeter due to the added brown sugar, but it didn't seem to me to have that MM taste.  It may have been imagined, but I felt like I could taste the brown sugar in a bad way.  Also, the color I think was too dark/golden compared to what I've seen in my recent MM visits.  But I really am just concerned about flavor.  Oh, and I didn't miss the wheat germ.

Since I am stuck with Brer Rabbit Mild at least for now, and especially given Norma's lack of sweetness even with 11% Homemaid, I think I'll try some other additional sweetener.  Most likely honey.  If not honey, just white sugar (organic).   Or any other suggestions from out there.

Biz,

You donít have to say your sorry that my crust didnít have a sweet taste even after all the molasses.  It is all in trying different formulas, to find out what works and what doesnít.

I am glad your experiment at a MMís clone went well!  :)  Nice to hear that KABF in combination with VWG worked well too.  I find your experiments interesting.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #590 on: November 02, 2011, 08:52:17 AM »
Gene,

 I think we still are going to have problems trying to nail this all down.

Norma

I don't know.  The crumb/ color shots from post 584 look dead nuts on to me.  Maybe as people joint this thread, there will be a "concensus" on the sweetness level of the actual dough.  Then they can each choose to modify the sweetness after the bake with what they brush on the rim.  Since MM only says what they use in the dough, they could be using High Fructose Corn Syrup on the dough. :-D
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #591 on: November 02, 2011, 09:11:31 AM »
I don't know.  The crumb/ color shots from post 584 look dead nuts on to me.  Maybe as people joint this thread, there will be a "concensus" on the sweetness level of the actual dough.  Then they can each choose to modify the sweetness after the bake with what they brush on the rim.  Since MM only says what they use in the dough, they could be using High Fructose Corn Syrup on the dough. :-D

Gene,

The color of the crumb looked like the crumb I ate at MMís, and the piece of the crust seemed to match the color too, but the crumb on the MMís pizza I attempted yesterday was too dense and bready.  The bready issue probably could be resolved with using a little higher hydration in the formula.

I am like you, MMís seems to say only molasses is used in their dough, but I wouldnít be surprised if something like corn syrup is in the dough or on the dough.  :-D  I have some corn syrup here at home, and maybe at some point in time I will do an experiment with corn syrup.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #592 on: November 02, 2011, 10:14:06 AM »
..... I did a search to see if there is a "standard of identity" for molasses at the FDA....
Peter

The USDA does have a standard.  http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELDEV3011896

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #593 on: November 02, 2011, 10:32:29 AM »
When I had the MM pizza in Florida, the rim of the pizza was indeed sweet, but a pleasant sweetness with some complexity. However, that doesn't mean that the rest of the crust wasn't also sweet. The sweetness there might have been masked by the sauce, cheese and pepperoni. In my own experiments, I have found that I have gotten the best results from a sweetness standpoint by using the Grandma's Original molasses and light brown sugar. Right now, I am looking for the right balance between those two ingredients. For example, when I tried using 7% Grandma's Original molasses and 4% light brown sugar (Imperial brand), the crust had decent sweetness but the sweetness of the brown sugar predominated too much over the more complex sweetness that molasses imparts to the crust. I think that that is the phenomenon that Biz referred to in his post of the results of his latest Saturday night MM clone pizza. In my most recent experiment, I am using more Grandma's Original molasses (9%) and less light brown sugar (1.5%). I am less worried about the dough and crust coloration, although the dough with that combination looks to be close to a real MM dough.

The above said, there is no reason why MM can't be adding something to the rims of their pizzas, at least in some of their stores, to get a sweeter rim. The only closeup I have seen of the garlic butter that is brushed on the rims of the MM pizzas is at 0:33 in the Dustin MM video at . While it looks like the water, milk solids and maybe the garlic powder have settled out at the bottom of the container, to make what looks more like ghee (clarified butter), there is no reason why a sweetener could not be added to the garlic butter. I have not read or seen anything to support that possibility, but the possibility can't be ruled out either. A sweetener in the garlic butter could also impart a shine to the rim of the finished crust.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #594 on: November 02, 2011, 10:46:33 AM »
The USDA does have a standard.  http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELDEV3011896

Gene,

Thanks for that link. I did the bulk of my searching at the FDA website, where I did not find a "standard of identity" for molasses. I assume that producers of molasses have to comply with the USDA standards on molasses.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #595 on: November 02, 2011, 11:13:55 AM »


The above said, there is no reason why MM can't be adding something to the rims of their pizzas, at least in some of their stores, to get a sweeter rim. The only closeup I have seen of the garlic butter that is brushed on the rims of the MM pizzas is at 0:33 in the Dustin MM video at . While it looks like the water, milk solids and maybe the garlic powder have settled out at the bottom of the container, to make what looks more like ghee (clarified butter), there is no reason why a sweetener could not be added to the garlic butter. I have not read or seen anything to support that possibility, but the possibility can't be ruled out either. A sweetener in the garlic butter could also impart a shine to the rim of the finished crust.

Peter

Peter,

Since you posted that there is no reason why MM might not be adding something to their rims in some stores to get a sweeter rim, (by brushing whatever is in the container in the video on the rim) and maybe also that could impart a shine to the rim I wanted to post about my experiments.  I still havenít gotten that shiny rim.  I mostly have been using Land Oí Lakes butter, but did use other butters, and also Imperial margarine, in combination with the same garlic powder. (a commercial garlic powder.)  I never got the shine that most MMís pies seem to have.  It makes me wonder if something else is added to the butter and garlic powder.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #596 on: November 02, 2011, 11:43:57 AM »
Norma,

On the matter of the shine on the crust, when I look at the photos that Brian posted starting at Reply 553 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg158419.html#msg158419, it seems to me that he achieved that shine not only on the rim, which could have been due to the fresh application of garlic butter, but on the bottom of the crust also, especially near the rim area. I know that Brian uses a different oven than the rest of us but maybe he can explain how he achieved the shine on his crust.

I am sure that there are ways of achieving the shine topically, as is often done with breads, but it might also be that the conditions are right to be able to achieve the shine naturally, with the right temperature, pH and simple sugars and amino acids to allow the Maillard reactions and caramelization to occur and provide that shine. You might also recall that Brian stated in Reply 570 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg158584.html#msg158584 that he gave the dough five days of cold fermentation and 3-4 hours temper time on the bench. Maybe that dough management was responsible for the shine and may not be readily achievable using one or two day thawed frozen dough balls such as MM uses and we have been using in our experiments. If you go back to the MM Dustin video, you will note that the finished pizza has a dull finish on the rim of the pizza. So, it isn't automatic that all MM pizzas will have a shine on the crust.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #597 on: November 02, 2011, 12:11:25 PM »
Norma,

On the matter of the shine on the crust, when I look at the photos that Brian posted starting at Reply 553 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg158419.html#msg158419, it seems to me that he achieved that shine not only on the rim, which could have been due to the fresh application of garlic butter, but on the bottom of the crust also, especially near the rim area. I know that Brian uses a different oven than the rest of us but maybe he can explain how he achieved the shine on his crust.

I am sure that there are ways of achieving the shine topically, as is often done with breads, but it might also be that the conditions are right to be able to achieve the shine naturally, with the right temperature, pH and simple sugars and amino acids to allow the Maillard reactions and caramelization to occur and provide that shine. You might also recall that Brian stated in Reply 570 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg158584.html#msg158584 that he gave the dough five days of cold fermentation and 3-4 hours temper time on the bench. Maybe that dough management was responsible for the shine and may not be readily achievable using one or two day thawed frozen dough balls such as MM uses and we have been using in our experiments. If you go back to the MM Dustin video, you will note that the finished pizza has a dull finish on the rim of the pizza. So, it isn't automatic that all MM pizzas will have a shine on the crust.

Peter

Peter,

I did note when Brian posted those pictures that he did have a shine on the rim and bottom crust, but never thought to ask him how he achieved that.  I do remember that Brian said that he gave the dough five days of cold fermentation and 3-4 hrs. temper time on the bench.  

I saw in the video you referenced, and at my visit to MM, that there wasnít any shine on that pizza, or ones I saw that just came out of the oven.  I had wondered about the shine before because I didnít get to watch the pie makers apply the butter and garlic powder to any of the pizzas at MM.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #598 on: November 02, 2011, 01:00:09 PM »
Check out the black and white pictures from this set.  The photographer says "these are the dough balls we use to test the batches"

Possibly they room temp ferment, put in plasctic wrap and then freeze?  Are you guys/gals doing that?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasongriset/sets/72157601895895177/

« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 01:02:14 PM by Jet_deck »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #599 on: November 02, 2011, 02:52:50 PM »
Check out the black and white pictures from this set.  The photographer says "these are the dough balls we use to test the batches"

Possibly they room temp ferment, put in plastic wrap and then freeze?  Are you guys/gals doing that?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasongriset/sets/72157601895895177/

Gene,

Before you became active in this thread, I found the photos you referenced and mentioned them in Reply 34 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg149968.html#msg149968, and also later at Reply 126 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg153996/topicseen.html#msg153996.

As for fermenting dough balls at room temperature before wrapping and freezing, I did try that, but only for a brief period. I did it because even dough balls that are flash frozen apparently need some fermentation started before freezing. Based on what Tom Lehmann said at the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15785.msg154830.html#msg154830, I believe that MM may be flash freezing the dough balls. In a home setting, and particularly in a static freezing situation as exists with my standard home refrigerator/freezer, I have not worried too much about what the cyclic freezing/defrosting will do my MM clone dough balls because I have been using them within about 10-14 days, as Tom typically recommends. As I understand it, it is only the MM stores that are close to the MM commissary that get fresh (unfrozen) dough balls. The rest get frozen. Since some of the MM locations are as far west as Arizona and receive frozen dough balls, that would seem to suggest flash freezing rather than static freezing at the MM commissary. We have not gotten any information or insights on how the MM stores that get the fresh dough balls manage them.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 04:25:14 PM by Pete-zza »