Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?  (Read 167060 times)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1000 on: January 14, 2012, 02:10:34 PM »
Peter

12 ounces for a small dough ball eh? Well,now we're getting pretty close to the 13 ouncer that they sold me!Too bad that they said it was a medium though!! :-D I think that was just the fault of the "worker" who boxed them up.Maybe he had got ahold of a bad mushroom,man. I had to correct him when he told the kitchen manager ,who rung up the sale, that it was a LARGE... ::).   I'm going to be there a lil later this after noon and will report back my findings. Do you think they'd object to my walking in there with my scale under my arm and slapping it up on the counter !!   >:D  "ok guys, lets get to the bottom of this groovy scene !"  :chef:
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 02:14:14 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1001 on: January 14, 2012, 02:57:04 PM »
Norma,

I did analyze the MM Nutrition Facts and came to the conclusion, after several different sets of calculations, that the small MM dough ball is most likely 12 ounces. I can't give an exact weight because of the nature of the MM Nutrition Facts that prevents exact calculations. Also, there are other factors to consider. For example, I don't know it the MM Nutrition Facts take into account the cornmeal that cover the frozen dough balls as shipped from the MM commissary and also the cornmeal added at the bench. I also don't know at what point the workers at the Jacksonville Beach, FL MM location (who gave me the set of dough ball weights I requested) actually weighed the dough balls, and whether they brushed the cornmeal off of the dough balls before weighing.

In addition to the above factors, the commercial dough rounding equipment that MM uses at its commissary has operating tolerances that result in slight variations in actual dough ball weight. For example, in the article at http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2010/05/31/story3.html?page=6 that discusses the Papa John's commissary operation, the dough ball weight variation is +/- one-quarter ounce. We also shouldn't forget that the MM Nutrition Facts in the case of pizzas and other baked items of interest to us in this thread are based on weights after baking. Unfortunately, MM does not give baked weights of their baked items, only serving size (e.g., a slice or order size) and number of servings (e.g., number of slices for the three sizes of pizzas). That means that one must either conduct bake tests to try to determine the losses during baking or estimate such losses.

Peter

Peter,

I wonít even ask how you did analyze the MM Nutrition Facts, and did several different sets of calculations, but it is interesting that you came to the conclusion, that a small MM dough ball is most likely 12 ounces.  I can understand you wouldnít know if the MM Nutrition Facts take into the account the cornmeal that cover the frozen dough balls when shipped from the MM commissary and also about any cornmeal that is added on the bench. 

I have seen rounding equipment like MM and Papa Johnís uses at their commissaries and see from the link you posted that the dough ball weight variation is +/-one-quarter ounce.  I know we shouldnít forget that the MM Nutrition Facts that are of interest to us in this thread are based on the weights after baking.  That article from Papaís Johnís was interesting.

When I get my dough ball from Bob, I can conduct a bake test, in addition to a hydration test, but wouldnít know exactly how much sauce and cheese to apply for the bake test.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1002 on: January 14, 2012, 02:59:25 PM »
Peter

12 ounces for a small dough ball eh? Well,now we're getting pretty close to the 13 ouncer that they sold me!Too bad that they said it was a medium though!! :-D I think that was just the fault of the "worker" who boxed them up.Maybe he had got ahold of a bad mushroom,man. I had to correct him when he told the kitchen manager ,who rung up the sale, that it was a LARGE... ::).   I'm going to be there a lil later this after noon and will report back my findings. Do you think they'd object to my walking in there with my scale under my arm and slapping it up on the counter !!   >:D  "ok guys, lets get to the bottom of this groovy scene !"  :chef:

Bob,

Lol!  :-D

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1003 on: January 14, 2012, 03:08:33 PM »
Norma,

Would it be of benefit to this thread if when I go to MM today I get a small dough ball (I'm going to ask for a frozen one) and also get a cooked small cheese pizza to take home ? Any special instructions for the "to-go" pie..."don't cut it" etc. ?
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1004 on: January 14, 2012, 03:41:53 PM »
Norma,

Would it be of benefit to this thread if when I go to MM today I get a small dough ball (I'm going to ask for a frozen one) and also get a cooked small cheese pizza to take home ? Any special instructions for the "to-go" pie..."don't cut it" etc. ?

Bob,

If you plan to buy a pie, these are directions Peter gave Tommy on what to do after buying the pie on the Jetís thread at Reply 109  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg157979.html#msg157979  This is what Tommy posted next at Reply 117 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg158072.html#msg158072  Peter posts more at Reply 120 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg158085.html#msg158085

Pies that are baked do lose weight in a short while, after baking.

If Peter sees your post he might have other ideas for you.

You could weigh the frozen dough ball, to make sure they all weigh the same, if you plan on buying a frozen dough ball.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1005 on: January 14, 2012, 04:02:18 PM »
Would it be of benefit to this thread if when I go to MM today I get a small dough ball (I'm going to ask for a frozen one) and also get a cooked small cheese pizza to take home ? Any special instructions for the "to-go" pie..."don't cut it" etc. ?

Bob,

Getting the weight in grams of the 10" small cheese pizza (preferably uncut) might turn out to be useful. Also, any estimates of the amounts of cheese and sauce would be helpful, even if it is subjective, like a "lot" or "little".

Peter

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1006 on: January 16, 2012, 12:27:41 AM »
Peter,

I was finally able to truck on down to my local 'shroom shack earlier this evening and I now have some really sock-it-to-me facts an figures to lay on this scene. The cute 20 something 'Sunday night shift leader' gal was dig'in my vibe in a down- with- it way...till she found out I was not part of a typical Duke student scavenger hunt. But the senior "pizza worker" restored justice to the hip knowledge pursuit when my five spot bill $ slapped him some skin! My Spanish is a lil rusty, but I'm quite sure he indicted that I'm a cool cat whom he will help out in the future.


Lets get down to business...a black-light poster bulb went off in my cranium,let's see if we can get a par-baked ! Total weight measurements will be more accurate,no?   Durham,NC MM small,10 inch pizza...
Total weight as measured on my digital scale on the trunk lid of my ride in the MM parking lot :502 g
Measured weight of cheese topping removed from par-baked pizza:164 g
I am pretty good at eagle-eyeing sauce amount's Peter,and with this par-baked pie's predominant gum layer and minimal sauce cling to the removed cheese layer...I'd have to call this one's sauce amount to be 3 1/2 to 4 Tbls. Absolutely no more than a quarter of a cup.
Senior "amigo" was adamant that they use no measuring cups or spoons for sauce and cheese...I stepped behind the counter and confirmed this.
Was able to discover that this MM shop does NOT make their dough own dough the night before as previously posted by myself.
Today I also purchased a FROZEN small dough ball to compare (hopefully) against this small plain cheese pizza that I am discussing here.......after shaking off the magic mushroom cornmeal from this frozen small dough ball it's weight comes in at a svelte 11.05 oz.

Personal opinions about this small plain cheese MM prepared pizza....remember,this is merely my limited experience on flavor diagnosing
sauce appears to be 6n1's,light salt an pepper..hint of garlic and a milder oregano than I (tone's brand} use
cheese seems to be like Grande 50/50,part whole milk mozz. part provolone (currently a member of my arsenal)
After finishing the bake on this pie,the crust has the same garooveey intoxicating flavor as previously noted in the pie I made with a MM dough ball.

I hope this info is able to help the cause. I did learn one last thing thing tonight about MM pizza....while enjoying the taste of it,your experience will be enhanced if on your stereo you play some Tommy James and The Shondells! Just something about that Crystal Blue Persuasion tune fits rite in with the Mellow Mushroom...

Anything I spaced out man,jus lemme know!

Bob

p.s. cooked pizza was exactly 10 in. round and 1 in. high at the rim.

p.s.s.  Ya gotta cook her reeeel hot though to bring back life in this type of dough....
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 02:08:49 AM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1007 on: January 16, 2012, 10:30:30 AM »
Bob,

Thank you very much for your MM trip report. I think what you did should help us get closer to what MM is doing.

With respect to weights, I have found the best weight information to be "before" and "after" weights. Those weights are good because they allow you to determine the weight loss during baking. Par-baked weight data isn't as useful because there may be a material amount of moisture still remaining in the pizza in the par-baked state. In this case, this might not matter much because you aren't going to get the weight of a real unbaked small MM cheese pizza anyway and the MM Nutrition Facts do not give weights for the MM pizzas, either whole pizzas or slices. They are one of the few companies that do not give weights. I am aware of only one other chain pizza company that does not give that data.

Summarizing you data, this is what I get:

Par-baked pizza weight = 502 grams = 17.70 ounces
Cheese = 164 grams = 5.79 ounces
Sauce estimate = 3.5-4 tablespoons

In order to get a weight for sauce, I weighed 4 tablespoons of a sauce I have been using and it came to 65.78 grams, or 2.32 ounces. On a volume basis, it was about 1/3 cup. One thing to remember about sauce on a baking pizza is that sauce is typically around or over 90% water. On a simple cheese pizza, I would say that a good part of that water is driven off through evaporation during baking. I have stripped off cheese from purchased pizzas before and it looked like there was just a small amount or film of dehydrated tomatoes. And some of the sauce may adhere to the cheese if the cheese is stripped off of the baked pizza. Most generic mozzarella cheeses contain around 50% water. However, I do not believe that much of that water is driven off during baking. There will be some moisture driven out of the dough, but since the dough is covered by sauce and cheese, it will perhaps give off less moisture than if it were baked without anything on it (for bread dough used to make loaves, a typical number I have seen is around 10-12%). You indicated that the MM employee told you that the sauce is not measured out. I can't speak for the MM location you visited, but many, if not most, of the MM locations use a portioning device that is often referred to as a "Spoodle", which is a combination of a spoon and a ladle. From what I can tell, the workers use only one size but they know from practice and experience how to use that portioning device to measure out different amounts of sauce for the different size pizzas. I think you may be correct on the types of tomatoes that MM uses for its sauce. I don't know if they use the 6-in-1s but MM has reported before that they use a fresh-pack style tomato, which Escalon, Stanislaus and San Benito offer.

Further to the cheese, the only brands of cheese that I have seen from my reading (and from information that I believe Norma supplied in relation to an MM litigation matter) is Grande and Premium Saputo (at the MM Tempe, AZ location). MM has always touted that they use a low-fat mozzarella cheese (shredded). This is in keeping with their promotion of a "healthy" pizza with less fat. When I looked at the MM Nutrition Facts, and using the Grande low-moisture part skim shredded mozzarella cheese Nutrition Facts (at http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=18), and specifically the cholesterol numbers (which relates to the cheese only), I get an amount of that cheese as used on a small cheese pizza of about 4.33 ounces. You are correct that the MM workers do not weigh out or otherwise use portioning cups for the cheese. Everything I have seen point to free-throwing of the cheese.

If we assume that a small dough ball weighs 11 ounces, and that the cheese is 5.79 ounces (your number) and that the sauce is 2.32 ounces (my number), then the total weight is 19.11 ounces. For all intents and purposes, this is for a small unbaked cheese pizza. Subtracting 17.70 ounces from 19.11 ounces yields a presumptive loss during baking of 1.41 ounces. That is a loss of 7.4%. That is not an unusual number. In fact, when I made my Papa John's clone pizzas, using a basic pepperoni pizza as a benchmark, I routinely got losses of around 7-8%. For my calculations for this project, I have been using the same number but with respect to a 12-ounce dough ball. Pending more data on weights, I would say that an 11-ounce dough ball is a credible number.

You didn't indicate whether you weighed the cornmeal that I believe the MM dough balls come with from the MM commissary. I also believe that the frozen dough balls are wrapped with clear plastic wrap. To get an idea as to how much cornmeal might be used for a small MM dough ball, this morning I took a small MM clone dough ball (without any cornmeal on it) that I have been defrosting in the refrigerator and dusted it in some cornmeal. I used a basic house brand enriched degermed yellow cornmeal. I weighed the dough ball before and after adding the cornmeal. Since my regular scale does not have a good enough accuracy to measure a small amount of cornmeal, I removed all of the cornmeal from the MM clone dough ball and weighed it on my small digital scale. The weight of the cornmeal (about 0.8 grams) represented 0.23% of the weight of the dough ball. So, in my case, the difference is almost negligible. Moreover, according to the Nutrition Facts for generic cornmeal at the nutritiondata.self.com website at http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5693/2, the moisture content for generic cornmeal (the same type as I used) is about 11.29%, or not much less than the generic 14% number for most white flours. That is good news since it means that our numbers (baker's percents) do not have to be changed solely because of the cornmeal. I should also mention that I ran an additional test where I weighed both the cornmeal and a sheet of clear plastic wrap of a size to adequately wrap my dough ball. The results indicated an added weight to my MM clone dough ball of 0.54%. For an 11-ounce dough ball, that would increase its weight to 11.06 ounces (without plastic wrap, the dough ball with cornmeal comes to 11.03 ounces). As previously noted, we do not know what weights MM uses for its Nutrition Facts.

I will await the results of your hydration tests (and Norma's as well if she conducts a similar test) before testing out numbers for an 11-ounce MM clone dough ball. In the meantime, I will also play around with the MM Nutrition Facts for a small cheese pizza even though the Nutrition Facts do not give weights for that pizza.

Thanks again, Bob. You are a real trooper.

Peter
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 11:21:40 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1008 on: January 16, 2012, 01:14:54 PM »
Peter,

You are quite welcome. Anything I can do to help,anytime, just ask! What you do is really far-out and amazing...a lot of fun for me to be participating with this.

I did mention that I shook off the cornmeal before weighing the small frozen dough ball. It was getting late though when I was writing the post and I was starting to talk a lil "Corny" so that's probably why you missed that. Sorry that my bright idea to get a par-baked was the wrong approach. I can always do it again anytime...I like their pizza!  ;D

By the way,I did your hydration test a few days ago and it was 40 % .......but I'm waiting for Norma and I will be performing it again to have a second example to compare it to.

Any info you need,just let me know!

Bob
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1009 on: January 16, 2012, 01:38:06 PM »

By the way,I did your hydration test a few days ago and it was 40 % .......but I'm waiting for Norma and I will be performing it again to have a second example to compare it to.

Bob

Bob,

When did you send me the real MM dough ball to do the hydration test on?  If you didnít send it yet, or donít want to, that is okay.  

Good to see what your hydration test was.  

Thanks also for your help in this thread!  :)

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1010 on: January 16, 2012, 03:51:28 PM »
By the way,I did your hydration test a few days ago and it was 40 % .......but I'm waiting for Norma and I will be performing it again to have a second example to compare it to.

Bob,

I can't tell you how important that piece of information is to me. In only took us about 11 months--since Biz entered his post on February 21 of this year at Reply 14 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg127848.html#msg127848--and a total of 1010 posts spread over 51 pages to get this far. I estimate (from recent-year numbers from Health and Human Services) that there were close to 4 million babies born in the U.S. over that time period. But I will try to contain my enthusiasm until Norma has had a chance to attempt a further hydration test. In the meantime, I would like to see if I can make out an 11-ounce dough ball from the MM Nutrition Facts. Maybe if I torture the MM Nutrition Facts long enough and hard enough they will give up their secrets. If that doesn't work, I may have to resort to waterboarding.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1011 on: January 16, 2012, 04:32:14 PM »
Peter,

Please step back away from the nutrition facts.....we have the building surrounded! :-D  Waterboarding...Ha!...you crack me up.

Heck, if I'd known we'd get this big a rise outta ya....I would have mentioned the 40% last Tuesday! Very sorry about that,man. I just didn't know...

Bob

p.s. that's a lot of babies...just think, someday they will grow up and be able to make MM pizza at home...all because of you!  ;D
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 04:54:42 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1012 on: January 16, 2012, 04:38:00 PM »
Norma,

I was told you would receive the package on Tuesday. I was not very happy with that (long story),UPS. But rest assured , I did send them.

Bob
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1013 on: January 16, 2012, 06:46:32 PM »
Bob,

I can't tell you how important that piece of information is to me. In only took us about 11 months--since Biz entered his post on February 21 of this year at Reply 14 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg127848.html#msg127848--and a total of 1010 posts spread over 51 pages to get this far. I estimate (from recent-year numbers from Health and Human Services) that there were close to 4 million babies born in the U.S. over that time period. But I will try to contain my enthusiasm until Norma has had a chance to attempt a further hydration test. In the meantime, I would like to see if I can make out an 11-ounce dough ball from the MM Nutrition Facts. Maybe if I torture the MM Nutrition Facts long enough and hard enough they will give up their secrets. If that doesn't work, I may have to resort to waterboarding.

Peter


Peter,

I never heard the that word ďwaterboardingĒ and had to look it up on Google.  Please donít resort to that.  :-D I hope your 11 ounce dough ball works out for you since Bob gave you the hydration number he got. 

Since Bob posted the dough ball is supposed to be at my home on Tuesday, as soon as I receive my new scale I will do the hydration test just like Bob did. 

You also must be an information factory to know how many babies were born in the US since Biz first posted.  :o I didnít know that either.  That is a lot of babies.

Back to the MM Nutrition Facts.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1014 on: January 16, 2012, 06:52:26 PM »
Norma,

I was told you would receive the package on Tuesday. I was not very happy with that (long story),UPS. But rest assured , I did send them.

Bob

Bob,

Thanks a lot for sending me the dough and telling me when it is supposed to arrive.  I am very anxious to see what it looks like.  To imagine I will have real MM dough in my possession is wonderful!  ;D

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1015 on: January 17, 2012, 08:35:37 PM »
Bob,

Thanks so much!  ;D I received the two real MM dough balls today. You made my day really special by having real MM dough balls in my possession now!  I am excited to do tests on the two dough balls.

I didnít take the two dough balls out of the plastic bags to weight them because I am not sure if they should be reballed. They are flat now.  Thanks for placing the ice bags inside the big plastic bag to keep them cold.  I was at market today when the dough balls arrived around 5:00 pm by UPS.  My daughter took them out of the UPS box and placed them in the refrigerator. When I returned this evening, I took them out of the big bag, and now they are placed separately in the ziplock bags you sent them in.  The two dough balls are now back in the fridge, after taking the pictures.  :)

I placed one MM clone dough ball leftover from today beside the real MM dough balls. and they look exactly the same color.  I will have to wait until tomorrow and see in the daylight if they still look the same color.

I also receive the new scale today by regular mail.

Norma
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 08:43:55 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1016 on: January 17, 2012, 08:36:48 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1017 on: January 17, 2012, 08:37:33 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1018 on: January 17, 2012, 08:39:18 PM »
Peter,

Are there any instructions from you about if I should reball the two dough balls Bob sent me?  I am not sure what to do.  I did receive my new scale today.  I also donít know what I should do to weigh the two dough balls, since they are in plastic ziplock bags.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1019 on: January 17, 2012, 09:09:03 PM »
I placed one MM clone dough ball leftover from today beside the real MM dough balls. and they look exactly the same color.  I will have to wait until tomorrow and see in the daylight if they still look the same color.

Norma,

Was the MM clone dough ball the one based on the MM clone dough formulation that you liked so much with the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses?

I agree that it would be a good idea to compare the real MM dough with your clone in daylight.

Peter