Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?  (Read 223339 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1125 on: January 20, 2012, 08:48:11 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1126 on: January 20, 2012, 08:50:10 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1127 on: January 20, 2012, 08:51:36 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1128 on: January 20, 2012, 08:53:01 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1129 on: January 20, 2012, 08:54:36 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1130 on: January 20, 2012, 08:55:54 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1131 on: January 20, 2012, 08:56:47 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1132 on: January 20, 2012, 08:58:15 PM »
MM clone dough baked into a pizza.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1133 on: January 20, 2012, 08:59:11 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1134 on: January 20, 2012, 09:00:11 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1135 on: January 20, 2012, 09:01:48 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1136 on: January 20, 2012, 09:02:50 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1137 on: January 20, 2012, 09:04:03 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1138 on: January 20, 2012, 09:05:59 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1139 on: January 20, 2012, 09:06:43 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1140 on: January 20, 2012, 09:07:19 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1141 on: January 20, 2012, 09:28:34 PM »
Norma,

Mouth water feel pictures,that is great!
Even I'd like you to conclude:
"The resulting pizza baked almost the same, but the bottom crust was almost the same."
"The two pizzas were very good. "

Since the Chinese lunar new year is around the corner,Jan 23rd,let me refer your last phrase in that post:
"have some wine to celebrate." CHEERS!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!


Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1142 on: January 20, 2012, 09:45:46 PM »
Norma,

Mouth water feel pictures,that is great!
Even I'd like you to conclude:
"The resulting pizza baked almost the same, but the bottom crust was almost the same."
"The two pizzas were very good. "

Since the Chinese lunar new year is around the corner,Jan 23rd,let me refer your last phrase in that post:
"have some wine to celebrate." CHEERS!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!


Gray,

I hope you have some wine to celebrate the Chinese lunar new year!  Cheers, and Happy New Year to you too!  :)

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1143 on: January 20, 2012, 10:05:59 PM »
Norma,

It is good that you were able to do a side-by-side comparisons of the two pizzas. I'm not sure that even an MM customer would be able to tell which pizza was which.

What you reported seems to confirm my suspicions on the matters of color, amount and type of molasses, and increased hydration. To get both a light tan color and detectable sweetness, MM has to be using a light molasses molasses, and a fair amount of it. When I worked the numbers for the Steen's, the amount needed to meet the MM Nutrition Facts was quite high--higher even than for the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses. By any chance, were you able to detect any differences between the flours, such as textural differences that might reflect different protein contents?

Peter

Offline grayman

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1144 on: January 20, 2012, 10:23:54 PM »
Gray,

Norma gave a nice explanation of the situation. To what she said, I will add that you might be able to use bread flour, which I understand you will be purchasing soon. I have been using bread flour supplemented with vital wheat gluten to approach the protein content of a high-gluten flour, which is what MM says it uses to make its dough. On the matter of the molasses, I did a quick Google search last night and while it appears that there are molasses products in China, they may be hard to find in stores. Molasses is an essential ingredient to an MM pizza and without which you cannot make such a pizza. If you do find a source of molasses, be sure that it isn't a "blackstrap" molasses. That form of molasses has great flavor but it is not sweet enough to use all by itself to make an MM pizza, and it is also too dark and will make your dough and pizza crust and crumb too dark. A regular molasses might also make an MM clone dough too dark but that is something that is not necessarily bad. The pizza can still taste great. Some people might ever prefer the taste over a real MM pizza.

Another thing to keep in mind is that an MM dough is low in hydration (around 50% and a few percent higher when the water content of molasses and the oil are taken into account). That means that you will need a good mixer. It is not a dough that is easy to prepare and knead by hand, and using an electric hand mixer will not be particularly helpful. I have been using a food processor because the weight of dough balls that I have been making--12 ounces--is too small to use my home stand mixer. When I start going to 11+-ounce dough balls, I will still use my food processor. What Norma uses for larger batches of dough is a commercial mixer that operates much like a home mixer, but much better.

It is possible to make a cold fermented version of an MM clone dough. I have done very little with this approach but I believe Norma has done a test or two using cold fermentation. The MM pizza chain does have some stores in the Atlanta, Georgia area where their commissary is located that use fresh dough balls but most of the MM stores use frozen dough balls from the commissary. That has been the focus of our efforts. If and when we are able to come up with the best version of a frozen MM clone dough, maybe someone will try to come up with a cold fermentation equivalent. I like the frozen dough ball method personally since it allows me to make frozen MM clone dough balls and freeze them until I am ready to use them (usually within fifteen days of making them). In your case, if you are able to make and freeze MM clone dough balls, you can let them defrost in the refrigerator for up to three days and then use them.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your detail explanation and help,as well as Norma too.

I went to the market for the ingredients last afternoon,(since the new year is coming,people will get a long holidays),but I just get back a big bag Golden Statue Bread Flour as I said in my thread. Regarding the other ingredients,I almost could not say out what they are when the market guy ask me while I only know the English name as you guys mention,and I only translate them from my dictionary without knowing the actual thing...For example,the Wheat Germ,the shop owner said there is no supply of this now since it is very cheap(I do not know if she said is real).and the cornmeal,their are some different size,I do not know which to pick.and VWG,they took out some not only four but with many wheat flakes in...and I do not see any molasses maybe,I think I need to do more searching and note to match the right ingredients first.

And I do not have a thought that food processor could mix dough before,is it running too fast?and I see one commercial mixer yesterday,the volume of dough is 5kg,I think I need to try in small batch first.

Regarding the dough holding window is one another issue I always think since it is not possible mix the dough all the time,one time per week would be fine I think.After Norma's explanation,I have a though: We mix two batch(or two different situation dough),one for cold fermentation in cooler with lower yeast level,maybe 0.3%,to supply from the early 3 days(maybe Tuesday to Thursday,when we make the dough on Monday),and another in frozen with 0.6% yeast while defrosted under requirement from Friday to next Monday.Peter,do you think the solution could work?  

There is another question about MM recipe,do you think it is good match to bake at the conveyer air impingement oven?

Sorry that there are so many questions to take you so many time...

Gray
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 02:02:26 AM by grayman »

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1145 on: January 20, 2012, 10:27:02 PM »
Norma,

It is good that you were able to do a side-by-side comparisons of the two pizzas. I'm not sure that even an MM customer would be able to tell which pizza was which.

What you reported seems to confirm my suspicions on the matters of color, amount and type of molasses, and increased hydration. To get both a light tan color and detectable sweetness, MM has to be using a light molasses molasses, and a fair amount of it. When I worked the numbers for the Steen's, the amount needed to meet the MM Nutrition Facts was quite high--higher even than for the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses. By any chance, were you able to detect any differences between the flours, such as textural differences that might reflect different protein contents?

Peter


Peter,

I donít believe a MM customer would be able to tell the differences in the pizzas either, unless someone told them to try and really taste differences.  I had even forgotten about the exact sweetness the MM crust had until I baked the MM dough tonight.  There is something about the MM crust sweetness that is different than when tasting my MM clone pizza in the rim. 

Good to hear what I reported seems to confirm your suspicions on the matters of color, amount and type of molasses, and increased hydration.  I can now understand that MM has to be using a light molasses and a lot of it to get both the light tan color and detectable sweetness.

To answer your question if there could be any textural differences tasted, although the crumb seemed denser or not as airy, the crumb was softer when a bite was taken, if that makes any sense. 

I have a few more days to decide, but do you think it would be a good idea to defrost the MM dough ball on Monday and reball like I did with the part of the dough ball for today?  I can take a picture of what the frozen dough ball looks like tomorrow if you want to see it first before you make a decision.

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1146 on: January 21, 2012, 08:58:33 AM »
Gray,

And I do not have a thought that food processor could mix dough before,is it running too fast?and I see one commercial mixer yesterday,the volume of dough is 5kg,I think I need to try in small batch first.

For small amounts of dough, a food processor is a wonderful machine. Yes, it does run fast but I use the pulse feature so that the dough doesn't overknead or overheat and I also use cold water so that the dough doesn't warm up too much from heat of friction. For the MM dough made in my food processor, a smooth ball doesn't always form because of the low hydration of the dough. So, I just empty the contents of the food processor onto my work surface and form the rest of the dough ball by hand. It is very easy to do. In a commercial setting, you would want to use a commercial mixer that can handle low hydration doughs.

Quote
Regarding the dough holding window is one another issue I always think since it is not possible mix the dough all the time,one time per week would be fine I think.After Norma's explanation,I have a though: We mix two batch(or two different situation dough),one for cold fermentation in cooler with lower yeast level,maybe 0.3%,to supply from the early 3 days(maybe Tuesday to Thursday,when we make the dough on Monday),and another in frozen with 0.6% yeast while defrosted under requirement from Friday to next Monday.Peter,do you think the solution could work?

Yes, I think that that might work. That approach might also help you decide on which method works best for you. However, somewhere along the way you might want to think about what type of pizza works best for you in your drink shop. The MM pizza is a very unique one, and Norma and I have come to like our clones of that pizza but an MM type of pizza might not be what your customers will like. Maybe sometime you can tell us what kind of drinks you sell.
 
Quote
There is another question about MM recipe,do you think it is good match to bake at the conveyer air impingement oven?

Yes, I think it should work. I mentioned this possibility a long time ago in this thread but I never tried using a pizza screen to bake an MM clone. The bottom of the crust is likely to be softer and less chewy and with a different kind of browning, but I think it should be a viable approach.  My practice when reverse engineering and cloning someone else's pizza is to get the clone right first, as exactly as possible. It is only then that I make changes for different applications and timeframes. If you look at the Papa John's thread (at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.0.html), you will clearly see that approach. That is what Norma and I and Biz and a few other members are trying to do on this thread. Once we think we have mastered the MM dough, that is when changes are likely to come, including the possible use of pizza screens.

BTW, MM no longer uses wheat germ, or so I was told, although I have seen one MM website that makes reference to wheat germ. Even the franchisee doesn't know what is in the dough. MM at corporate headquarters knows, and we know, but not all franchisees know.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1147 on: January 21, 2012, 09:34:48 AM »
Peter would you help me?  Could you give me an educated (you) guess as to how many gallons of "molasses" that the Atlant MM Comissary uses each week? Thanks. ;D

Gene,

That is a tough question but I will see if I can do some research on that matter. MM is a privately-held company, and there is little written about it publicly (and a lot of it is out of date) from which one might be able to estimate pizza volumes. MM units (there are now about 135 of them in 17 states and the District of Columbia) are very high cost operations (high square footage and above-average buildout costs) compared with most franchised retail food businesses. I believe that this has made it necessary for MM to charge a lot more for its pizzas than its competitors. In fact, the major complaint of reviewers seems to be that the MM pizzas are overpriced, sometimes excessively so. This has caused some customers to order the small pizzas and to consider MM stores as "special occasion" destinations, not regular stops. I wouldn't be surprised to discover that MM's pizza volumes are lower than one might expect, given the unique and different artistic design and themes of the stores, the large number of beer options (a good match for the pizzas), entertainment, appeal to families, and the high energy level, especially at peak times such as weekends. I think I can come reasonably close on the amounts of molasses used for the three pizza sizes that MM offers (10", 13" and 16"). What I would need is pizza volumes.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1148 on: January 21, 2012, 02:20:04 PM »

.... That is a tough question but I will see if I can do some research on that matter.
Peter

I agree, but if anyone could do it, it likely would be you.  I'm heading in that general direction (Hotlanta), and will keep my eye's peeled.  Might even walk up to the door and introduce myself, and ask for a deluxe tour. :-D
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1149 on: January 21, 2012, 05:08:03 PM »
I did take the MM frozen dough ball (Bob sent me) out of the freezer for these two pictures.  I put a coffee filter next to the dough ball, since earlier in this thread we were talking about how a MM dough ball was close to the color of a coffee filter. These two pictures were taken outside with the MM dough ball placed on top of white snow.  The MM dough ball is now back in the freezer.

Norma