Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?  (Read 216645 times)

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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1250 on: January 28, 2012, 09:20:29 PM »
more  :chef: :pizza:


Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1251 on: January 28, 2012, 11:14:03 PM »
CDNpielover,

You did a great job on your first clone “Fiery Hawaiian” MM pie!    :)

You are right that corn meal is used in place of bench flour.  I don’t use a lot of cornmeal to open the MM doughs or very much on the peel.  I used just enough on the peel so the pie will slide easily into the oven.  I haven’t noticed the cornmeal when eating a real MM pie or the clone MM pies I made.  I am not sure if you used too much corn meal or not.  I use toasted cornmeal, but am not sure what kind of corn meal you tried, or if it really matters.

I think you might have over baked a little if the temperature of your pizza stone was between 590-600 degrees F and your bake time was about 8 minutes. 

I also like how the rim puffs up and how the melted butter, garlic, and parmesan go together.  I am not sure about your big bubbles.  They could be just from how you pressed your rim out, before stretching.  I also have gotten some big bubbles, but wasn’t sure why they appeared during the bake.

I wonder since you posted that you didn’t taste sweetness in the crust, whether you are going to have some of the same problems as some of the rest of us, in that the amount of Crosby’s molasses needs to be upped.  I also had the same problem with the Homemaid molasses earlier in this thread and might have the same problem again on Tuesday.  Your crumb does look very light.  Was it really light in color or was it just lighter in comparison to your rim?  I also wanted to ask you what color you dough ball looked like after you mixed and balled it. 

In my opinion the MM clones are the easiest pies to slide off onto the pizza stone.  Don’t get nervous, you did well.  :chef:

Thanks for posting the pictures and welcome to another MM clone pizza maker on this thread.   ;D

Norma

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1252 on: January 29, 2012, 12:00:01 AM »
Dear Norma,

Thanks so much for your feedback!  I think the crumb looks light because of the lighting or my camera flash.  I just looked at the slices in the fridge, and they are definitely darker than the other pies i've made.  the dough was a nice tan/caramel color.  I wish I had taken some pics of it, I will take pics of the dough from my next one.   :chef:

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1253 on: January 29, 2012, 07:36:25 AM »
I wanted to share pictures of the MM pizza i had.  I think the forums version looks much better.
>> The pizza was a couple days old at this point<<
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 07:38:32 AM by Jet_deck »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1254 on: January 29, 2012, 08:11:47 AM »

I wanted to share pictures of the MM pizza i had.



Gene,

Thanks for sharing the photos of the MM pizza you had.  :) The MM crumb does look lighter than most of the attempts I tried.

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1255 on: January 29, 2012, 09:20:51 AM »
Just finished cooking and eating my first MM pie - a "Fiery Hawaiian" like that from Dominos pizza.  It was a success, especially considering that I've never had a real MM pizza, and that this was my first experience with this dough.

I used corn meal in place of bench flour - is that what others have been doing?  I am not too sure whether I used too much corn meal or not - it was definately very noticable when eating the pie.  Is that normal?

I'm pretty sure I overcooked this pie.  The bottom was way too dark for my liking...  It didn't taste like carbon, but was definitely almost black.  Unfortunately, I don't have any good pictures of that, although you can kind of see it in the "side vies" pics below.  The rim and crust were also pretty tough and chewy (although i'm not sure how the cornmeal contributed to that).  I baked on a stone on the bottom rack with the oven set to 525 F (the stone was about 590-600 F).  I baked for 8 minutes, perhaps about 30 seconds longer as I was hoping my dang broiler would kick on (which it didn't) to better brown the cheese.  

I REALLY like how the rim on this pie just puffs right up, and the melted butter with garlic and parmesan are just killer on that rim!  A couple of VERY big bubbles did form along the rim; is that normal?

I read above that others have commented on the sweetness of the crust - this is something that I didn't notice.

Next time, I will definitely cook at a lower temperature, and probably for a shorter time.  I might also try cooking on my 15" perforated pan, as I am not very good sliding pies off of my peel and onto my stone which is probably only 16" ijn diameter.   The dough did slide off just fine, but it still makes me nervous haha!

CDNpielover,

I think you did very well for the first time.

I agree with everything that Norma has said about the bake time and temperature. On the matter of the top crust bake to get more cheese browning, instead of using the broiler you might just want to move the pizza off of the stone onto a higher oven rack position. I have not used the broiler on any of my MM clone pizzas. There is plenty enough heat at the top of the oven to do the job without having to use the broiler. However, if you find over time that using the broiler does a better job, then you might use it. I might also add that in most of the photos I have seen of MM pizzas, the cheese is not overly brown. I think that part of the reason is that many of the MM Specialty pizzas--which are among the most popular in MM's stores--have many toppings, and that keeps the cheese from getting much browning. I personally like the cheese to retain its natural white color.

With respect to the cornmeal, that is what I use and the amount is what sticks to my dough. I don't taste it in the finished crust although I can see signs of it.

On the matter of bubbling, from the timeline I put together from your recent posts, it looks like you made and froze the dough on Wednesday night, defrosted it on Friday, and made a pizza out of it on Saturday night. I don't recall reading how long you allowed the dough to warm up at room temperature before using and what that temperature was. Frozen dough balls don't get much fermentation (it is zero fermentation when in the frozen state), and it is common for bubbling to occur when the fermentation has been brief. In fact, the only fermentation takes place during the defrost period (and it takes a long time for the dough to completely defrost) and the temper period. When I have experienced bubbling in an MM clone crust, the bubbles have been soft and they sometimes deflate on their own or I simply pierce them with the tip of a kitchen knife. You can also get bubbling if the dough is overproofed or overfermented. Your dough wasn't old enough to experience that type of bubbling. Next time, you might try two days of defrosting. In one of the videos that Norma and I saw, the owner of an MM franchise said that their MM dough took two days to be ready to use. I personally like three days because that allows for more fermentation. But two days is also good.

The sweetness problem has been a vexing one. Trying to get the proper balance between dough/crust color and sweetness with existing brands of molasses, including some from commercial sources, like the Homemaid Molasses from Domino Specialty Ingredients, has been a real challenge. It is also hard to advise on these issues because it is not possible to get a reliable benchmark color against which to compare our efforts. Different cameras and different lighting conditions are just too variable and unreliable. For that reason, I have been using a brown coffee filter for color comparison purposes. In Norma's case, she has a sample of a real MM dough so she is in better shape than the rest of us. However, seeing photos of the your next iteration of an MM clone dough might at least tell us if you are clearly too light or too dark with the color.

Good luck on your next MM clone.

Peter

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1256 on: January 29, 2012, 12:45:35 PM »
Dear Pete,

I should have been more descriptive about my dough procedures.  It was in the freezer for 24 hours, refrigerator for 48 hours, and warmed on the counter at room temperature (about 70 F) for a bit over 2 hours.   :chef:

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1257 on: January 29, 2012, 05:31:22 PM »
I mixed a color test clone MM dough ball today, to see how close the color of the MM clone dough I am using is compared to the frozen dough ball from MM.  I didn’t do that test before, because I didn’t think about it last week. I did the test for color from the formulation I am using that Peter set-forth at Reply 834 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg161938.html#msg161938  but I used KASL flour which I normally do.

The dough looks shaggy because it was just taken out of the mixer, but the color of the clone MM dough ball doesn’t look too far off from a real MM dough ball, at least in my opinion.  I took the picture in natural daylight so maybe the colors of the two doughs could be seen better.

Today when I was at the supermarket I looked at Lyle’s syrup again to really see what color Lyle’s syrup was.  It is very light in color, unlike the molasses products we have been trying.  Lyle’s golden syrup comes in a glass container so I could see the color. Lyle’s golden syrup looks like the picture under the Production heading on this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_syrup  I would have bought a glass container of Lyle's to test, but it was rather expensive for a small glass container, and I didn‘t know it using Lyle’s for tests would help this thread or not.  In the future in someone wants me to do tests on the Lyle’s syrup for a clone MM dough I will buy a glass container.

Norma

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1258 on: January 29, 2012, 08:46:29 PM »
Have you considered adding white sugar or non-diastatic malt powder to the dough formulation? On my tongue malt powder imparts almost the same or more sweetness to the dough as regular table sugar.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1259 on: January 29, 2012, 09:45:51 PM »
Have you considered adding white sugar or non-diastatic malt powder to the dough formulation? On my tongue malt powder imparts almost the same or more sweetness to the dough as regular table sugar.

Dan,

From its founding in 1974, and to this day, Mellow Mushroom has said that there are no refined white sugars in its dough or sauce. And the only sweetener used in the MM dough is molasses.

I tried a combination of Grandma's Original molasses and Eden barley malt syrup in an MM clone dough formulation and the barley malt did not contribute much to the overall sweetness. As you can see at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Relativesweetness.png, maltose has a relatively low sweetness factor compared to sucrose.

I believe that Norma has samples of malt products from Malt Products Corporation but has not to date used them in MM clone dough formulations. Maybe when this project has been concluded, we can consider some kind of dough formulation that might benefit from the malt products.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1260 on: January 29, 2012, 10:58:21 PM »

I believe that Norma has samples of malt products from Malt Products Corporation but has not to date used them in MM clone dough formulations. Maybe when this project has been concluded, we can consider some kind of dough formulation that might benefit from the malt products.

Peter

Dan and Peter,

Yes, I do have 3 different samples of malt products.  I don’t plan to use them in the MM thread, but would be interested when this thread has concluded to try them in another dough formulation.

Norma

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1261 on: January 30, 2012, 12:06:59 AM »
At lunch today, within my earshot, 2 groups asked for molasses syrup for their 'hoe cakes'.  The product brought to the table was "syrup". On the bottle, the ingredients were listed as "ribbon cane syrup, corn syrup".
Hoe cakes = Corn bread cooked like pancakes.
In the South, Molasses = Cane/ Sorghum/ or Ribbon cane juice cooked until thick and dark.

In the real word molasses is the by-product of sugar making.  Very thick, not sweet, and something only cows or hogs could love. :-X
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1262 on: January 30, 2012, 08:10:50 AM »
At lunch today, within my earshot, 2 groups asked for molasses syrup for their 'hoe cakes'.  The product brought to the table was "syrup". On the bottle, the ingredients were listed as "ribbon cane syrup, corn syrup".
Hoe cakes = Corn bread cooked like pancakes.
In the South, Molasses = Cane/ Sorghum/ or Ribbon cane juice cooked until thick and dark.

In the real word molasses is the by-product of sugar making.  Very thick, not sweet, and something only cows or hogs could love. :-X

Gene,

You didn’t happen to get the brand name of molasses syrup for the “hoe cakes” did you?  I wonder about all the possibilities about Molasses products.  It is mind boggling to me.

Recently I have been seeing the commercial on TV on the Food Network Channel that goes like this.

It claims, "When it comes to corn sugar or cane sugar, your body doesn't know the difference. Sugar is sugar."

http://www.naturalnews.com/032281_HFCS_sugar.html
http://www.drgangemi.com/2011/05/hfcs/
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/09/16/sugar-sue-high-fructose-corn-syrup-over-name/

I think about this thread every time that commercial comes on TV and chuckle.  :-D

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1263 on: January 30, 2012, 09:23:02 AM »
In the South, Molasses = Cane/ Sorghum/ or Ribbon cane juice cooked until thick and dark.

Gene,

That is a point that you made way back at Reply 576 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg158654.html#msg158654, and seconded by dwightsharpe. At the time, we were struggling to find a molasses product that could provide the requisite sweetness yet not produce a dough and finished crust that were too dark. A pure cane syrup, like the Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup, seems to come closest to the mark. For example, I can use 18-19% Steen's and the color of the dough will still not be quite as dark as a brown coffee filter. As mentioned recently, Paulette at Domino Specialty Ingredients had no problem considering the Steen's to be a molasses, even though Steen's does not refer to it as such. If MM is using such a product, the question remains where are they getting it, especially if they are using a lot of it?

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1264 on: January 30, 2012, 10:11:30 AM »
I think we can rule out Steen's as the source of "molasses" for MM.

After my last post, I decided to call the Steen's mill in Abbeville, LA (337-893-1654), where I spoke with a Steen's employee about the mill and their products. My first question was whether they sold their 100% Pure Cane Syrup at the foodservice level, in large quantities. The Steen's employee said that they make molasses whenever they have sugar cane or cane juice but do not make the syrup with large users in mind and on a regular basis. It was clear from our discussion that they are not making hundreds of gallons a week with large, regular end users in mind. The largest size containers they use is 55-gallon drums.

When I asked where they get their sugar cane, the employee told me that his boss still does grow some cane but the cane juice they use comes mostly from Baton Rouge. When I mentioned Domino, the employee said that that is their principal supplier of the cane juice that is used at Abbeville. But any sugar cane used at Abbeville is grown in the U.S. None comes from Guatemala or any other place outside of the U.S. But, we already know that Domino gets much of their cane from Guatemala (and over twenty other countries).

I also asked whether their 100% Pure Cane Syrup could be considered a "molasses". His answer was that they make cane syrup and also molasses (their only two products) and they don't call the cane syrup "molasses" and they don't call their molasses cane syrup. When I mentioned that it seemed that in the South all of these kinds of products, and also sorghum, seemed to be called molasses. I gave as an example the cane syrup and corn syrup blend that Gene mentioned. The Steen's employee said he had no knowledge of that practice. He also was not aware that Domino sells a pure cane syrup.

As I noted before, Domino can't be ruled out as a supplier to MM. The Domino name keeps coming up in the conversations I have had with people in the industry. Of course, there are other big dogs out there that sell molasses and sugar products. Norma has gotten samples of some of those products but they do not seem to have the particular combination of sweetness and color characteristics that we have been looking for.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1265 on: January 30, 2012, 10:39:31 AM »
This is only a partial list of who might sell Sorghum Syrups.  Golden Barrel sells Sorghum Syrup http://www.goldenbarrel.com/pancake-waffle-syrups.php so does Barry Farms.  http://www.barryfarm.com/nutri_info/sugars/sorghum.html Northern Brewer http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/nb-sorghum-syrup.html Briess Malt & Ingredients Co. http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/GF_Syrups.htm

In this NY time article it says that the only reliable supplier of sorghum is specialty shops like Star Provisions. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/dining/sorghum-a-southern-sweetener-to-remember.html
http://atlanta.eater.com/archives/2011/12/28/times-atlanta.php

I really don’t think MM is using sorghum syrups in their dough, but it an interesting thought.

Norma

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1266 on: January 30, 2012, 09:49:10 PM »
I gave as an example the cane syrup and corn syrup blend that Gene mentioned. The Steen's employee said he had no knowledge of that practice. Peter

I read the Steen's employee's comment so I went by a "Harvey's" and Piggly Wiggly grocery store today in the same town.  I counted 8 brands of syrup.  7 of the 8 were a blend of corn syrup and sugar cane syrup.  One was a blend of refiners sugar and sugar cane syrup.  The Farmers Biscuit Syrup was by far the darkest of all and is a blend of corn syrup and sugar cane syrup.  The others ranged from almost a golden honey color to a semi dark glass of ice(d) tea.  I don't necessarily think any of these are used at MM, but since I was here anyway....
 I bought the Biscuit Syrup and can compare the color and sweetness to the Brer Rabbit I saw in the pantry.  Peter, would you say that the "molasses" that MM uses is sweeter than pancake syrup?
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1267 on: January 31, 2012, 10:54:20 AM »
Gene,

That is quite an impressive array of sweetener products that you found. As for the ones shown in the photos, the closest one to what we have been investigating in this thread seems to be the Roddenbery's Cane Patch Syrup. I had come across that product in my searches some time ago, but Norma recently brought that product back to my attention when she did some research on companies that made and sold syrups, including molasses, in Georgia. We were thinking that since MM was founded in Georgia, perhaps they used, and were still using, a local source for their molasses. Roddenbery was one of the earliest pioneers in syrups in Georgia. I told Norma that I believe that Roddenbery's was strictly a retail product since I could not find any evidence that they had a foodservice or wholesale division that sold in large quantity. However, since one of your photos showed the Roddenbery label for the Cane Patch Syrup with their telephone number on it, I called Roddenbery this morning. A customer service member confirmed that the Roddenbery Cane Patch Syrup is sold only at retail but that they have been considering selling in larger quantities out of a foodservice or wholesale division. When I asked where their mill or processing facility for the Roddenbery Cane Patch Syrup is located, she said that it is in Saison, NC. I was told that the market for the Roddenbery Cane Patch Syrup is strictly the Southeast part of the country.

With respect to your question on pancake syrups in relation to molasses, one would have to know the particular type of pancake syrup you have in mind to answer your question fully. It's been a while since I have looked at labels of containers of pancake syrup in the supermarkets, since I use only maple syrup for pancakes and the like, but my recollection is that pancake syrups can run from pure maple syrup, to blends including maple syrups, to syrups flavored with real or artificial maple flavors, and syrups based on corn syrup and high fructose corn syrup (HFCS), usually with caramel or something equivalent for color, and sometimes preservatives. HFCS can come in many forms, but generally they are equivalent to sucrose in sweetness and, in some cases, consirably sweeter than sucrose. That means that pancake syrups based on HFCS, and even regular corn syrup, or corn syrup/HFCS blends like Karo, will be sweeter than molasses. To compare molasses with pure maple syrup, I would have to analyze the monosaccharides and disaccharides in those products, and their relative amounts, to determine whether pure maple syrup is sweeter than molasses or not. This morning, I compared my pure maple syrup with the Grandma's Original molasses, and to my palate the maple syrup was sweeter than the Grandma's molasses. Maple syrup has more sucrose than molasses but less fructose, so to be certain I would have to work the numbers. But, to my palate, the pure maple syrup was sweeter.

Peter

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1268 on: January 31, 2012, 12:36:26 PM »
Peter I agree that it makes no practical sense for MM to rely on some local mom and pop syrup makers.  It seems that it would take a national company to reliably deliver the quantities we are considering.  But I do wonder because of some inconsistencies in reported sweetness.
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1269 on: January 31, 2012, 03:58:43 PM »
Peter I agree that it makes no practical sense for MM to rely on some local mom and pop syrup makers.  It seems that it would take a national company to reliably deliver the quantities we are considering.  But I do wonder because of some inconsistencies in reported sweetness.

Gene,

I'd like to take a stab at the sweetness inconsistency issue, now that I gave gone around the block several times.

First, the molasses used by MM in its commissary can itself vary, with each crop and with each production operation. When I spoke with the nice lady in the Crosby laboratory in Canada, she told me that the Nutrition Facts for molasses change regularly. In Crosby's case, they use certified outside laboratories to test their products and determine what goes onto the Crosby molasses labels. In Crosby's case, it looks like they go through this process a couple of times a year. When I spoke with Paulette at Domino Specialty Ingredients and asked her why the ingredient variations for the Homemaid Molasses were so wide, she said it was because they were getting product from multiple suppliers. So, they use the values from those suppliers in creating the ranges. She also said that there were variations in their molasses products because of crop issues, weather, heat and other such factors. Also, in their case, they get sugar cane from about 23 different countries. Just that factor alone might mean fairly wide variations in the nature and quality of the molasses produced from crops from so many countries.

Second, even with sophisticated machines and test equipment in MM's commissary, a wet and sticky product like molasses can be difficult to work with. I envisioned that MM procures its molasses in very large quantities, if not in bulk (like tractor trailer loads) then in 55-gallon drums. What I don't know is how the molasses is introduced into the dough making process. Is it siphoned off from a large molasses holding container into one or more dough making lines, or is is siphoned off or drawn off into pails by volume rather than by weight and then emptied by workers into the dough making equipment? Either way, I can imagine variations that can affect how much molasses goes into the machines and ends up in the dough balls. Moreover, we already know that there are normal variations in dough ball weights. Once the dough balls are made, we don't know how much molasses is in each dough ball. Hopefully, the percent of molasses is the same.

Third, it seems to me from my experiments with MM clone doughs that the line between achieving the desired degree of sweetness and missing that point is quite narrow. If for example, you need say, 14% of a particular type or brand of molasses to get the desired degree of sweetness, and instead you end up with say, 13%, you might not get that sweetness. In the MM commissary, I doubt that they recalculate the amount of molasses they need for each dough ball run. Unless they test each shipment of molasses they receive, based on whatever quality and other test criteria they use, they might just use the standard amount, whether there are variations in the nature and the quality of the molasses or not.

Fourth, I can envision scenarios at the MM store level where there can be losses in the sugars in the dough to the point where the losses might manifest themselves in a loss of sweetness. For example, if the dough balls are allowed to defrost for too long, or are defrosted at temperatures in their commercial coolers that are too high, or if the dough balls are tempered for too long, or at too high an ambient temperature, or if unused defrosted dough balls are refrozen and redefrosted for future use, or some combination of the foregoing, I can see how at the time of use to make pizzas the finished pizzas might have crusts that lack the normal degree of sweetness. As noted in the last paragraph, it might not take much in the way of loss of "sugars" to miss the desired degree of sweetness.

Fifth, when I reviewed the Yelp reports for several MM store locations, it wasn't as though everyone commented on the matter of sweetness. Whether it was because sweetness is not an issue of concern, or because detectable sweetness is not unusual for a pizza crust (with Papa John's being a good example), or because most MM pizzas actually are not always sweet, I do not know. As I previously noted, there were only a few people who commented on the sweetness of their MM pizzas, and only one of them complained that the crust was too sweet. But there was no hue and cry that the crusts weren't sweet, or sweet enough. Since both Norma and I (and Biz on occasion) detected sweetness in the finished MM crusts we sampled, maybe we came to an erroneous conclusion that sweetness was normal and desirable. Maybe instead they were anomalies and not normal for MM pizzas.

Lastly, different people have different sensitivities to sugar/sweetness. In my case, I use little sugar in my diet and I can detect even small amounts of sweetness in products, so that may be a factor in my case--and for others as well.

As I see it, there are too many places where a value can swing one way or another and with enough swings in one direction or another the result can be MM crusts with or without detectable sweetness. I think we will need a lot more inputs from diners at MM stores to get a clearer and better defined picture on the sweetness issue.

Peter

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1270 on: February 01, 2012, 11:37:24 AM »
Last night I made another ball using Pete's formulation for a 14" pie with Crosby's Fancy Molasses and KA bread flour (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg169280.html#msg169280).  The dough was a nice tan/khaki color.  I forgot to take a picture, but I will when I make this dough on Saturday night.  I do remember that Pete is interested in seeing how the Crosby's Fancy Molasses affects the dough color.  I plan to take the ball out of the freezer, for a 2 day defrost (same as I did last time). 

The major thing I want to change is the cook temperature.  Last time I made this dough, I set the oven at 525 and cooked for about 8.5 minutes (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg169772.html#msg169772).  The pie was overcooked, with dry crackery sides and a very brown bottom.  Based on these results, I think I will reduce the oven temp to 500 and check the bottom of the crost for brownness at about 7 minutes, and if it doesn't seem done I can leave it in for a bit longer.  It seems that most of you are cooking between 500 and 525 F; does anyone know off hand what their stone temps are?  At 525 F, my stone temp was about 75 F higher than the oven setting.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1271 on: February 01, 2012, 01:33:09 PM »
CDNpielover,

In my standard electric home oven, my lowest oven rack position is fairly close to the bottom electric coil. As a result, the stone on that rack after an hour of preheat at around 500 degrees F can have a temperature of about 25-50 degrees F higher than the oven temperature. The higher stone temperature is good from the standpoint of getting better oven spring, but it can be somewhat of a negative if there are a lot of toppings because the bottom of the pizza might bake too fast and get a darker bottom crust before the top of the pizza has finished baking. That can result in the dough being somewhat underbaked in parts, and require that your raise the pizza to a higher oven rack position to get more top heat. My standard practice is to check the bottom of the pizza after six minutes and, based on the bottom crust color, decide whether to leave the pizza on the stone longer or move it to a higher oven rack position.

Having played around with lower oven and stone temperatures, I favor the higher temperatures but monitor the bake carefully. For example, recently, for an experiment, I tried placing the stone at the middle oven rack position and preheating it to a temperature of about 500 degrees F--the same as the setting I used to heat the oven. I had to actually open the oven door to allow enough heat to escape to equalize the temperatures. The pizza had a deficiency of oven spring as a result, although part of that may have been because I had a lot of toppings on the pizza. In that case, it would have been better to place the stone on the lowest oven rack position, use a higher stone temperature, and carefullly monitor the bake.

Ovens vary from type to type and from brand to brand, and even from country to country, so you have to learn the way that your particular oven works and any peculiarities it might have. I'm sure you will solve any problems with your oven and MM pizzas with a bit more experience baking that type of pizza.

Peter

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1272 on: February 01, 2012, 02:48:27 PM »
Pete,

Great, thanks!  I will set the oven to 500 F and check at 6 minutes.  I'll move to the top rack of the crust is looking done but the toppings aren't cooked enough.  Thanks!   :chef:

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1273 on: February 01, 2012, 03:07:08 PM »
Peter, thanks for the thoughts on sweetness issues.  Your theories all sound plausible.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1274 on: February 01, 2012, 04:41:02 PM »
The first picture is the MM clone dough with the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses and the MM clone dough made with the Homemaid molasses side by side yesterday. 

The MM clone dough with the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses was made first.  It tasted like it always does and the crumb and texture were the same.  The pictures with the veggies are the ones with the Golden Barrel Molasses added.

The second pizza made was the clone MM dough with the Homemaid molasses added.  The pictures are the ones with many blends of cheeses added.  I am stumped that this second MM clone pizza with the Homemaid molasses added did have a sweetness in the crust.  Steve and I both noticed the sweetness, so it just wasn’t me saying the crust had a sweetness to it.  There was a different sweetness though than the clone MM dough with the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses.  The MM clone dough with the Homemaid molasses wasn’t as complex in sweetness as the taste of the pizza with the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses.  I wish someone could explain to me how the clone MM dough with the Homemaid molasses even had any sweetness in the crust.

Norma