Pizza Hug original style sauce

[turbosundance]

I would like to make a sauce that is similar to Pizza Hut Pan pizza sauce.   I really like this sauce.  There are many recipes on the internet that list 8oz tomato sauce, oregano, marjoram, basil and garlic salt.  Would this be fairly accurate?

[turbosundance]

I just want a good sauce that tastes like a commercial offering. I always find my sauces taste too... homemade I guess.  Any tips on how to get a better quality sauce?  I generally use Great Value crushed tomatoes from Walmart with a bit of light olive oil, oregano, basil, garlic, black pepper.

[canadave]

Sorry, I can't resist...I know it was just a typo, but I just want to say that I think Pizza Hut should officially change its name to "Pizza Hug"....that is SUCH a better name!! 

[Jackie Tran]

Hey all new here.  I've been experimenting with NY Style pizza using Jeff Varasanos recipe with pretty decent results. I'll post a few pics later.

Looking around the recipes section I took note of the PH pan recipe and would like to try it.  Of course it won't be the same without the famous PH sauce.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?  Many thanks.

[turbosundance]

Sauce definitely requires MSG for the correct flavour. 

[Jackie Tran]

Good tip. I've found a couple of similar recipes on the net.  Thinking about trying it out this weekend. Will add MSG for good measure. Lol

[AJ72]

I just want a good sauce that tastes like a commercial offering. I always find my sauces taste too... homemade I guess.  Any tips on how to get a better quality sauce?  I generally use Great Value crushed tomatoes from Walmart with a bit of light olive oil, oregano, basil, garlic, black pepper.

Try Don Pepino's pizza sauce with a 1/2 teaspoon of Penzey's pizza seasoning and a little sugar, salt and granulated garlic.  You will have a commercial quality pizza sauce that is easy to make.

[Jackie Tran]

Well hell, since this forum doesn't seem to have a Pizza BUTT sauce recipe, I will submit one.  There are 2 basic ones floating around the net and they sorta come close.  I doctored one of the recipes my version is pretty close.

1 (6oz) can of tomato paste.  The orig. recipe calls for 8 oz.  Paste comes in 6 so I' sticking with 6oz.  It makes     
            enoough to make 1 10" pie with leftover sauce for breadsticks.
1/2 cup of bottled or filtered water
1/2 - 1 tsp oregano (depending on how much you like)
1/2 tsp dry basil
1/4 tsp garlic powder
1/2 tsp salt (only use if the paste doesn't have it already.  Consider using 1/8 tsp or omitting if using Hunt's Paste)
1 tsp sugar
1/2 tsp MSG (not in the orig recipe but it makes a difference IMO)
1/2 tsp majoram
1/4 tsp lemon juice (omit if using Hunt's Paste as it contains citric acid already.  Personally
     tomato paste is already acidic so I don't add extra lemon juice).


Warm thoroughly and let it sit for a couple of hours or overnight. 

[Pete-zza]

Tranman,

The latest Pizza Hut ingredients list that I am aware of is the one at http://www.pizzahut.com/Files/PDF/PIZZA%20HUT%20INGREDIENT%20STATEMENTS%202008.pdf. As you can see, for the Regular Pizza Sauce, the ingredients are given as:

Tomato paste, water, salt, spices, garlic powder, and citric acid

That same description goes back to at least 2006. Trying to reproduce that sauce to get what PH may be using in its stores would require insider information to get a clone quickly. Otherwise, you would have to conduct taste tests, most likely quite a few of them, to get something close. Even then, your clone could be different from someone else's, because of differences in taste sensitivities, etc.

The above aside, I think your sauce recipe is as good as any to try at this point. However, you might want to double check the tomato paste you plan to use to be sure that it includes salt. My recollection is that not all tomato pastes include salt. Also, PH does not use MSG. That is an ingredient that FDA regulations would require be disclosed because of allergic and other sensitivities to MSG. However, it is your sauce and if you want to use it, that is your call. You should also decide whether to include sugar, which is not in the Regular Pizza Sauce ingredients list given above. I might add that there is a PH Sweet Pizza Sauce with the following ingredients:

Tomato paste, water, high fructose corn syrup, salt, dry garlic, spices, and citric acid

The main difference between the two sauces seems to be the high fructose corn syrup that is used in the Sweet Pizza Sauce. Unless you have a source of high fructose corn syrup (which I understand is not the same as regular corn syrup), I would use ordinary table sugar.

Please let us know how your sauce turns out and if it is anything like a PH pizza sauce.

Peter

EDIT (4/20/13): For the Wayback Machine link to the above Pizza Hut pdf document, see http://web.archive.org/web/20100602083641/http://www.pizzahut.com/Files/PDF/PIZZA%20HUT%20INGREDIENT%20STATEMENTS%20September%202008.pdf

[Jackie Tran]

Thanks for the reply Peter.  I looked in my pantry late last night and had 2 cans of tomato paste.  One by Hunt's and the other Contina something or other.  The Contina (sp?)  had italian herbs in it and using the same recipe tasted horrible.  It also had a terrible color and not as red as the Hunt's.  No surprise to anyone I'm sure, but it REALLY is a low quality tomato paste. 

I followed one recipe I found off the net to a T, and thought it was way too salty, so I had to add extra sugar.  Next time I will omit the salt if using Hunt's tomato paste.  I also thought the sauce was a bit too tart initially.  This is where lemon juice or majoram (so I've read) will substitute for the citric acid.  Well I didn't like it so I would just as well omit either of those ingredients as well. 

With a bit more sugar to cover the salt up, I thought the Hunt's sauce looked like PH's but the taste was not spot on.  So taking turbosundance's suggestion I put 2 pinch's of MSG to it and BAM, it made the difference.  Instantly tasted a lot closer to PH's sauce.   

I checked it this morning after letting it sit in the fridge overnight, and it's pretty darn close to PH's sauce.  But again, I realize everyone's taste buds have different levels of sensitivity.   Knowing myself as well as I do, I'd have to say that I'm pretty darn picky about food and flavors.  I'm a tough critic when it comes to fastfood and such.   

I'm planning to buy some better tomato paste this morning and remake the sauce with the new changes for tonight's Pan pizza.  I'll definitely post a pic or 2 when the pie is finished and give my thoughts on the sauce with and without the changes.  For the time being, I am very satisfied with the result of last night's sauce experiment.  I'm rarely impress by a first batch of anything, but this one's close guys.

Got my wife to taste some it this morning, and she said "well I'm not crazy about PH's sauce, but it taste just like it" 

[Pete-zza]

Tranman,

While I was shopping today at a couple of local supermarkets, I checked their entire inventories of tomato paste, including national brands and house brands. The only brands that I found that contained salt were the Hunt's brand and the Contadina brand with herbs. Many of the brands indicated that the only ingredient was tomatoes. Some of the organic brands indicated that there was naturally-occurring citric acid. I assume that citric acid is specifically added to the non-organic tomato paste products.

What you might want to try sometime is to buy a pizza of the desired type from PH and ask for a sample of their regular pizza sauce on the side. I have done this successfully a few times at Papa John's. I usually tell a little white lie by telling them that my granddaughter won't eat their pizza without the extra pizza sauce, which she uses as a dipping sauce. I tell them I don't want the sauce in the little tubs because my granddaughter says that it "tastes funny" (they are actually usually loaded with all kinds of chemicals). With the sample in hand, I go to my kitchen and try to replicate it. I start with the base tomato product and add the other ingredients while trying to keep the ingredient pecking order intact. You can get a better idea as to the methodology I use by reading this thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6633.0.html. In your case, you could start with the tomato paste, then get the desired consistency by adding water, and then get the salt level right. From that point on, it is a matter of trying to identify the herbs in the PH sauce and their quantities. I usually look at the real sauce itself to see the particle size of the herbs, and then try to copy that particle size with the herbs I use. I have found that you have to be very careful with the garlic powder. It can easily overtake the sauce if you use too heavy a hand.

Another cross-check would be to taste the sauce you made recently, or your next batch, against a real PH pizza sauce sample, to see if they are really close.

I look forward to your progress report.

Peter

[Jackie Tran]

Peter those are some great ideas and methods for replicating the sauce.   I may really do that someday BUT for now, this sauce comes extremely close.   I made a Pizza Butt pan pizza using the dough recipe on this forum and the sauce (posted above) tonight and I was Truely Amazed!  It was so very close.  The only thing that was off was that my crust was a bit thicker than theirs but that's an easy fix.  The softness of the dough was right on, the oil crunch of the bottom was right on, the sauce was right on.  If I had served it to friends in a PH box, they wouldn't know any better.  It was so very tasty and a nice change from NY style.

[Pete-zza]

Tranman,

You did a terrific job with your pizza. Congratulations.

I don't know which specific PH clone dough recipe you used, but I scaled down the recipe in the recipe section of the forum to a 22-ounce dough ball size, at Reply 6 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4607.msg38909.html#msg38909. Was it the scaled-down recipe that you used or the original? And what is the pan size you used?

Did you stick with the sauce recipe you posted, along with the MSG, or did you change it at the last minute? Was the MSG the Accent product? And what brand of tomato paste did you use, and was the "garlic" garlic powder?

Peter

[Jackie Tran]

Thank you Peter.   The recipe I use came from the recipes section posted by xPHmngr.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/panpizza.php.  I halved the recipe since it was a first for me.
The recipe is for 3 pies, and I made 1 after halving the recipe so no wonder it was a bit thick.  Next time I'll make a pizza and some bread sticks. 

The really funny thing is that I didn't have dry milk on me at the time and used some whey protein.  They tast very similar and the end product didn't suffer at all.

I was going to remake the sauce but I ran out of time and used the sauce I made from last night.  It's similar to the one posted but not exactly.  It's the Hunt's sauce that had salt and I added more salt from the recipe I found off the net.  I'll go back and remodify the sauce with notes so others can try it they like.  My sauce was a bit too salty and acidic so, I had to add more sugar.  The sauce i used did have a slight bitter after taste, but i think that is due to the citric acid.   Next time i will buy a different brand (without salt or citric acid) and follow the modified recipe.   Oh yes, the garlic was garlic powder and not fresh garlic. 

Here's a little background.  My cousin use to work at PH some 20 yrs ago. He would bring home pizza at times and sauce and dough to make it at home.  He was a manager so I guess he did what he wanted.  Anywho, I remember the dry spices came in a package and was mixed with tomato paste and water.

Peter I did add a little less than a 1/2 tsp of MSG to this sauce I used tonight, and I'm convinced it made a difference.  I know you mentioned PH doesn't use it or they'd have to divulge it, but it could be part of the "spices" they listed.     Before the msg, the sauce was close but tasted like it was missing something.  After the msg, it's like the lightbulb went on in my head.  In my head, I was jumping around saying "that's it!".  It tasted a lot closer to PH's sauce after the msg.  I'm not gonna say 100% b/c well that's ludicris but I'd say it's at least 95%+ close to the original.

The pan used to bake the pie in is a pampered chef deep dish pizza stone.  It measures about 10" in diameter at the base and 11" in diameter at the rim.  It's about 1.75" deep.   I baked it in my Primo ceramic outdoor oven at 400 for about 10min.  The bottom was browning too quick so I had to pull it out and broil it in the indoor oven for a few mins. 

Hope that helps.  New pics up btw.

[Pete-zza]

Tranman,

According to the FDA, MSG and similar free glutamic acid ingredients are required to be identified by their common names, as is discussed, for example, at http://blog.foodfacts.com/index.php/2009/06/01/msg-exposed-where-is-it-hidden/. That would seem to preclude burying the MSG in "spices".   

Was your MSG the Accent brand?

Peter

[Pete-zza]

The really funny thing is that I didn't have dry milk on me at the time and used some whey protein.  They taste very similar and the end product didn't suffer at all.

Tranman,

You might be interested in knowing that in an early dough formulation that PH used, which I believe may be the one that xPHmngr based his recipe on, whey was one of the ingredients used. It was part of a dairy blend that included whey, nonfat milk and buttermilk. There was more whey than nonfat milk and buttermilk, by weight. If you would like to try such a dairy blend, you can order a convenient 50-lb. bag at http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/food/ItemDetail.aspx/ItemID/129fb46d-3f5f-43a0-8aef-39f33e4d8a70  .

Peter

[Jackie Tran]

Peter.  The MSG I used was some I had laying around as I do some asian cooking here and there.  The brand is Aji-No-Moto and it's manufactured in Teaneck, NJ.     I bought a bag years ago and rarely use it. 

I actually went and bought some non fat dry milk and several different brands of tomato paste and will be using that for future PH pan pizzas.  This is a great pie to make but something I wouldn't eat every weekend.  Everyone now and then I'll get a hankering for a pan pizza, at least now I can make it.   

Thanks for all the info. 

[sear]

ill have to try this, i just have a hard time believing anything good can come from a can of tomato paste

[Jackie Tran]

Sear, if you try the sauce NOTE the ingredients of the paste.  If there is salt and citric acid in it which there likely will be, omit salt and lemon juice from the recipe. 

Just try it out.  It's not identical but it's very close, espcially with a bit of msg and refridgeration.  I bet it will fool the toughest of critics. 

[Modegolf]

Hello,

I am fine tuning my "go to" pizza sauce and have determined (with this forum's help) that it should not be cooked.

But what about onion powder?  It seems that few recipes consider it a core ingredient.   I know I can add it if I like it, but does anyone have an insight into how the pros view onion powder as a core sauce ingredient?

As always, thank you for your time and attention.