Author Topic: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers  (Read 8830 times)

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Offline canadave

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Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« on: January 09, 2007, 10:09:32 PM »
Hi all,

I've recently joined the ranks of DLX mixer owners, and I've been tinkering with my original New York-style recipe to try to take advantage of its kneading technique and high capacity.  I've improved things enough that I can now share it with the community.  Some of you may be familiar with my old NY style recipe...this new recipe is a significant improvement and upgrade.

Note that it is specifically designed for the DLX's capacity and technique; if someone without a DLX wants to take a stab at converting it, feel free.

Thanks go to many people on this board, especially to Pete (who I'm still not quite convinced is human) and Jeff Varasano, whose website (http://jvpizza.sliceny.com) was an invaluable resource—this recipe builds on many of his ideas and is in fact very similar to his.

So, without further ado, here goes:

CANADAVE'S AUTHENTIC NEW YORK STYLE PIZZA RECIPE
(and I am an actual New Yorker, so believe me when I say that I know of what I speak and eat)
===================================================================

YIELD: Eight 16-inch pizzas

INGREDIENTS:
  • 9½ cups cold tap water (exact temp not important; use the coldest water that your tap will naturally produce)
  • approximately 8 pounds of QUALITY high-gluten flour (more on the “quality” later)
  • 2 Tablespoons instant dry yeast (IDY)
  • 1½ Tablespoons fine sea salt
  • 2½ Tablespoons sugar
  • 6 Tablespoons regular olive oil (I use Philippo Berio brand)

BEFORE YOU BEGIN:
  • Make sure you have a smooth, floured work surface handy BEFORE you start, on which you can handle a large dough mass.  Have some extra flour handy just in case.
  • It also REALLY helps to have a dough cutter/scraper ready (cheap to buy if you don't have one already).
  • Set up your DLX with its scraper and dough hook—not the roller (thanks to scott r for that tip).
  • Have eight containers ready.  I use both Tupperware and cookie tins—as long as it's a sealed container that's big enough, it doesn't seem to matter too much what it's made of.
  • Unless your refrigerator's freezer is quite large and/or quite empty, you'll probably need an outside chest freezer to store this many doughs.
  • This dough is designed to be baked at high heat on unglazed quarry tiles or the equivalent (i.e. a baking stone).  Remember that the tiles need to be at least 16” in diameter or 16” square.

STEPS:
1. Pour all the water into the DLX bowl.  Weigh out about four pounds of flour separately (no need to be precise at all here), start the DLX on lowest speed, and add the flour to the bowl.

2. Mix on lowest speed until the mixture is smooth and relatively non-lumpy.  You may need to unhook the dough hook and manually pivot it back and forth to achieve this.  It should take about three minutes or so, but don't go by time—go by the observed texture.  Stop when it's fairly smooth and creamy-looking.

3. Turn off the DLX and let the mixture rest no less than 20 minutes.

4. After 20 minutes, make sure the dough hook is secure to the armature pin, turn the DLX back on to lowest speed, and add the yeast, sugar, salt, and olive oil (the order isn't really important, but I recommend the oil last to prevent sticking of ingredients).

5. Gradually add flour.  The dough should start to bulk up. Add flour until the dough is dry enough to handle, but still slightly wet.  NOTE: There is no exact magic amount of flour here.  Go by your eye and feel.  Poke the dough if you're not sure how wet it is.  You want the dough to wind up being as wet as possible, but not so wet that you can't work without it sticking all over the place.  Trust me—you'll know when that is.  There's no hurry in adding the flour—just slowly add until you feel it's right. It may take 10 minutes; it may take 15.  There's no time limit, and no set amount of flour you need to add.  Just keep adding flour until you think you can start working with the dough on your countertop.

6. If the mixer starts to slow down under the bulk of the dough, slightly increase the speed.

7. When the dough is dry enough to handle, stop.  You will be able to tell when it's there.  Try to handle the dough when it's still a bit on the wet side; if it's too wet, just add some more flour.  Remember, you can always add more flour if the dough is too wet; it's harder to take flour away or add water if it's too dry.  Yes, your hands will get sticky with gooey dough!  Do this near a sink so you can quickly clean off your hands a bit...it's going to be a bit of a messy process.  But it's worth it.

8. Once the dough is ready, take the bowl off the DLX and dump the dough (as best you can) onto the floured work surface. The dough will be LARGE.  Knead it a bit with your hands to get any unabsorbed flour into the dough, and then just sort of shape it a bit with your hands into a nice slightly-domed circle on the table. 

9. With your dough scraper/cutter, cut the dough into eight equal portions.

10. Place each portion in a container.  Put one container in the fridge, put the rest in the freezer.

11. Let the fridge dough sit for AT LEAST 24 hours.  Ideally it should sit for 48-72 hours, but it should be at least 24 hours.

12. With unglazed quarry tiles in the oven or a baking stone, preheat your oven to 550 degrees or as high as it will go for at least 45 minutes.  At the same time that you start the oven, take the dough out of the fridge.  I like to place the dough near the oven so that it warms up nicely and gets that last little yeast rise.

13. On a floured pizza peel, spread out the dough until it's about a 16” circle, add sauce/cheese/whatever, and then carefully put the pizza in the oven.  I used to have to dock my dough with a fork, and I used to pre-bake the bare dough in the oven for a couple of minutes before adding sauce and cheese.  No more!  Just lay the dough out and go.

14. Bake for as long as necessary, until the cheese is bubbling and the crust is starting to brown a little on top.  You can experiment with switching to top-down broiling midway through, like I do.  Don't let the cheese burn and brown though!

15. Cut the finished pizza pie into 8 slices and serve.  Enjoy!  I sure did...I just finished eating the best pizza I've ever made.

A note about flour:

Jeff believes that the type and quality of flour used doesn't make much of a difference.  I'll respectfully disagree with Jeff on this point.  I used cheap no-name flours for a long time, and then switched to a quality Robin Hood flour available here in Western Canada, and the difference I tasted in the final product was like night and day.  My advice is to use a quality high-gluten flour like General Mills' All-Trumps, King Arthur's “Sir Lancelot,” or the like.  Many people on the Pizzamaking.com forum seem to have recently recommended some Harvest King flour varieties.

Now, on to my sauce discovery!

AN AUTHENTIC-TASTING NEW YORK PIZZA SAUCE
===================================

YIELD: About nine portions of 13 ounces each (13 ounces is enough to easily cover a 16" pizza with just a tiny bit of leftover; it's a perfect-sized portion).

INGREDIENTS:
  • One #10 can of Stanislaus “Full Red” (or “Concentrated Crushed” as it's known here) Tomatoes
  • Enough water to make the sauce the consistency you desire--probably around 3 cups or so.
  • 1 Tablespoon fine-ground oregano
  • 2 Tablespoons fine sea salt
  • 1 Tbsp dehydrated basil leaves
  • 1/3 cup pizza seasoning (use more or less depending on how strong your particular brand of pizza seasoning is.  I used a cheap “dollar store” bottle of pizza seasoning that's a bit on the weak side, so I use more of it.)

STEPS:
Mix it all together! :)  That's all there is to it.  No pre-cooking, simmering, etc.  Just mix it all together, then apportion the sauce into tupperware and freeze them along with the dough.  The night before you want a pizza, retrieve a frozen sauce and put it in the fridge; it'll be ready by the next day.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 10:15:03 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline nepa-pizza-snob

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2007, 10:24:40 PM »
It sounds great, BUT. I am going to share something I have learned on other forums. This thread is useless without pics! :P

After reading your whole write up - I want to see a picture. How could you leave me hanging? :-D

Offline canadave

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2007, 10:28:28 PM »
lol...sorry, you're right.  Unfortunately I've just made a whole batch...so it'll be a couple of weeks until I make another batch.  However, when I do, I will make sure to have my wife take a bunch of pictures every step of the way.

Incidentally, photos of the process won't enhance your understanding of the recipe all that much.  As long as you follow the instructions, you should be good to go.

Trust me for now though...the dough turned out fantastic.  After we finished the pizza, my wife said in all seriousness that this particular pizza tasted good enough to sell out of a pizzeria on a regular basis.  We actually started calculating what it would take to open a pizzeria :)

Offline canadave

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2007, 10:31:13 PM »
I should add to my previous comment by saying that the finished pizza didn't actually *look* much different than my previous pizzas; in fact, if anything, it probably looked inferior to other pizzas I've seen on this forum.  However, the taste was vastly improved.  As I said, pictures (actually I'll probably wind up just doing a movie) are nice, but the instructions are pretty clear on their own--especially since most of it doesn't involve precise measurements or anything like that.

Offline canadave

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2007, 10:46:54 PM »
I should add AGAIN to my previous comments...I *can* take a picture (and I will take one) of the next pizza I make.  That will probably be in a day or two.  I'll post them in this thread.

Offline nepa-pizza-snob

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2007, 10:58:55 PM »
Ya I was more interested in the finished pie pics anyway. Thanks. Its great when you nail
the ideal taste/ texture etc in your head

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2007, 11:05:03 PM »
Dave,

I couldn’t stand idly by and not do a few calculations. Based on your ingredient quantities, this is what I get for your total dough batch:

Flour (100%):                3628.83 g  |  128 oz | 8 lbs
Water (61.6%):             2235.36 g  |  78.85 oz | 4.93 lbs
Salt (.69213%):             25.12 g | 0.89 oz | 0.06 lbs | 4.5 tsp | 1.5 tbsp
IDY (.4980%):               18.07 g | 0.64 oz | 0.04 lbs | 6 tsp | 2 tbsp
Oil (2.3144%):               83.99 g | 2.96 oz | 0.19 lbs | 6 tbsp | 0.37 cups
Sugar (.82397%):          29.9 g | 1.05 oz | 0.07 lbs | 7.5 tsp | 2.5 tbsp
Total (165.9285%):        6021.27 g | 212.39 oz | 13.27 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:                     752.66 g | 26.55 oz | 1.66 lbs

And for a single dough ball:

Flour (100%):                453.6 g  |  16 oz | 1 lbs
Water (61.6%):             279.42 g  |  9.86 oz | 0.62 lbs
Salt (.69213%):             3.14 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.56 tsp | 0.19 tbsp
IDY (.4980%):                2.26 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Oil (2.3144%):               10.5 g | 0.37 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.25 tsp | 0.75 tbsp
Sugar (.82397%):          3.74 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.94 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
Total (165.9285%):        752.66 g | 26.55 oz | 1.66 lbs | TF = N/A

As you can see, I was not trying to be too precise with the numbers ;D. The thickness factor (TF) for those who are interested is 0.1320431. Its value is very close to the value for your original dough formulation.

Thanks for posting your new and improved dough formulation.

Peter
EDIT: Corrected sugar values and thickness value
« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 12:06:07 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline canadave

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2007, 11:13:27 PM »
lol...Pete, if I asked you to compute the value of pi, would you explode like a robot on Star Trek?  ;D

Seriously, thanks for doing the calcs.  I found the "single dough ball" values especially interesting...I would've guessed the per-ball salt content to be higher for some reason (although it's obvious once I look at it).

The nice thing about the "eight dough-ball" recipe is that there's plenty of leeway, IMHO.  For instance, I bet you could increase the salt content to 2 Tbsp instead of 1.5, and a single pizza would still taste almost exactly the same--maybe a slightly more salty taste, but I'd guess it'd be barely discernable.

Thanks again for calculating everything though...I know some people are religious about such things ;)

Offline canadave

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2007, 11:30:04 PM »
Pete, you'll need to make some slight edits to your calculations :(  :-[ Sorry...I just double-checked my ingredient totals, and it's actually 2 1/2 Tablespoons of sugar, not 3.  Shouldn't make much difference in the final product, but for those who value precision, I figured I'd bring it up.

I've edited my recipe in this thread accordingly and double-checked the rest of the ingredients again...everything's totally correct now :)

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2007, 12:20:13 AM »
Dave,

The dough formulations I posted have been corrected per your revised numbers.

I think you can see that the numbers have a certain liberating effect. For example, if someone wants to make a pizza like yours but the largest pizza that he or she can make is 12”, then by changing a few values we get this:

Flour (100%):                255.15 g  |  9 oz | 0.56 lbs
Water (61.6%):             157.17 g  |  5.54 oz | 0.35 lbs
Salt (.69213%):             1.77 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.32 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
IDY (.4980%):                1.27 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
Oil (2.3145%):               5.91 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.27 tsp | 0.42 tbsp
Sugar (.82397%):          2.1 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.53 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
Total (165.9286%):       423.37 g | 14.93 oz | 0.93 lbs | TF = 0.132043

If someone wants a thinner version, also in the 12” size, we get this:

Flour (100%):                193.23 g  |  6.82 oz | 0.43 lbs
Water (61.6%):             119.03 g  |  4.2 oz | 0.26 lbs
Salt (.69213%):             1.34 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.24 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
IDY (.4980%):                0.96 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.32 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
Oil (2.3145%):               4.47 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.96 tsp | 0.32 tbsp
Sugar (.82397%):          1.59 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.4 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
Total (165.9286%):        320.63 g | 11.31 oz | 0.71 lbs | TF = 0.1

Of course, someone would have to try making the pizzas to see how they turn out.

Peter


Offline canadave

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2007, 01:11:08 AM »
Agreed...very interesting Pete.  I'd be curious if someone were to attempt smaller sizes/smaller batches, and see how well the recipe works in a mixer other than the DLX as well.

Offline ehlaban

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2007, 09:06:05 AM »
Thanks for your new recipe, looks great.
One question i have is why does the DLX give a better result,
i just don't  understand this part.

Ernesto

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2007, 10:18:32 AM »
Ernesto,

Speaking as someone who's used three different mixers (a standard "Wal-Mart" Sunbeam mixer, an expensive DeLonghi DSM-800 mixer, and now the DLX), I think there are three reasons for the DLX's superiority.

First of all, it has a higher capacity than any other consumer-level mixer.  Even my Delonghi, which boasted a 7-quart bowl and 800 watts of motor power, struggled to make three batches of dough (I make 16" pizza dough), and would automatically shut off if more than that were attempted.  But the DLX can make EIGHT batches of the same dough, and probably could handle even more, except the bowl is filled up!

Second of all, the way the DLX works is different from any other mixer (the bowl spins rather than being held in place, and then it uses a roller/scraper action to work the dough), so the kneading action is a LOT gentler.  This gentle knead is a big factor in my opinion.

Third of all is what I just mentioned--the unique action of the mixer allows for reasons (1) and (2) to occur.  Yes, a Hobart high-capacity professional-grade mixer would be better than the DLX, but for the money, the DLX is the best consumer mixer if you're looking to make dough, in my humble opinion.  I couldn't be more pleased (except for the bracket situation...see my other post about my DLX repair).  If the bracket holds up, though, there's no reason this mixer shouldn't last a long time.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 12:19:31 PM by canadave »

Offline scott r

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2007, 02:49:44 AM »

[li]Set up your DLX with its scraper and dough hook, ?not the roller (thanks to scott r for that tip).[/li]


I just wanted to point out here that I actually think the ultimate way to use the dlx is with a batch of dough based on 750g of water and the roller and scraper. That seems to be where it does the best job of kneading.   It is true that at batches over 1 liter of water I find it necessary to use the scraper and dough hook.  Smaller batches are fine as well (with the roller and scraper).

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2007, 03:19:42 PM »
Peter,

Is it possible for you to convert the Sauce Recipe to bakers percents?  ;D



AN AUTHENTIC-TASTING NEW YORK PIZZA SAUCE
===================================

YIELD: About nine portions of 13 ounces each (13 ounces is enough to easily cover a 16" pizza with just a tiny bit of leftover; it's a perfect-sized portion).

INGREDIENTS:

One #10 can of Stanislaus “Full Red” (or “Concentrated Crushed” as it's known here) Tomatoes
Enough water to make the sauce the consistency you desire--probably around 3 cups or so.
1 Tablespoon fine-ground oregano
2 Tablespoons fine sea salt
1 Tbsp dehydrated basil leaves
1/3 cup pizza seasoning (use more or less depending on how strong your particular brand of pizza seasoning is.  I used a cheap “dollar store” bottle of pizza seasoning that's a bit on the weak side, so I use more of it.)

STEPS:
Mix it all together!   That's all there is to it.  No pre-cooking, simmering, etc.  Just mix it all together, then apportion the sauce into tupperware and freeze them along with the dough.  The night before you want a pizza, retrieve a frozen sauce and put it in the fridge; it'll be ready by the next day.

Thanks Peter

MWTC  :chef:

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2007, 06:22:34 PM »
MWTC,

That's an interesting question. My first instinct was to say no, but the more I thought about it, the more I wondered whether it would be possible to apply the baker's percents methodology to a pizza sauce. For example, in such a scenario, the tomatoes might be assigned the baker's percent of 100%, and the rest of the sauce ingredients would have baker's percents based on their weights relative to the weight of the tomatoes. I suspect you may be able to come up with a set of baker's percents but they may not be all that accurate and they would have to be tied to a particular brand of canned tomatoes and the associated weight of tomatoes in the can--the #10 can in Canadave's case. The reason for this is that the weight of the tomatoes in a #10 can size can differ from one brand to another, and from one form of tomato (e.g., whole versus ground) to another. Also, some canned tomatoes, such as whole tomatoes, often come packed in water or other liquid. Those cans usually give a total weight and a drained weight on the label. So, I think you would have to stick to a particular brand and form of tomato and a proven, workable pizza sauce recipe (like Canadave's).

The weights of herbs may not be accurate either. There is standard volume-to-weight conversion data for herbs in both dry and leaf form, but their actual weights can vary based on age, species, and other factors. I discovered this recently when I was following November's pizza sauce recipe. I was using a combination of herbs that I had purchased and herbs that I had dried from my herb garden. My herb weights and volume units did not line up with November's, perhaps because some of my herbs were not the freshest. I wasn't far off but I had to make adjustments. In Canadave's case, he also calls for a pizza seasoning. There are many brands and types of pizza seasonings, so its weight (for 1/3 cup) can vary from brand to brand.

If Canadave can provide the weight of the tomatoes in his #10 can of Stanislaus tomatoes, and more information on the pizza seasoning he uses, then I think I might be able to come up with a set of baker's percents for the total sauce. However, it might only apply to the brand of tomatoes used by Canadave, or the corresponding U.S. version, and it may not be all that accurate in terms of producing a consistent sauce. You will almost always be tweaking the sauce by adding more or less herbs. My inclination would be to follow Canadave's recipe and freeze whatever sauce you can't use in the near term.

Peter

Offline canadave

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2007, 06:26:28 PM »
I'm at work right now, but I'll post the answers to these questions when I get home (in about an hour or so).

Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2007, 07:38:31 PM »
OK, let's see now....

The #10 can of Stanislaus Full Red Tomatoes (also known as "Concentrated Crushed" where I live) is 100 fluid ounces.  The Full Red is basically a very thick sauce (but not as thick as tomato paste).  It needs to be watered down a bit before use.

As far as the pizza seasoning goes, I basically just cheaped out.  There is a dollar store near my house that sells spices made by a generic dollar-store brand called "Venetian Gold."  They happen to sell a "Pizza Spice" in a 3-ounce bottle, for $1.00, which is a basic mix of oregano, basil, thyme, marjoram, etc.  It isn't the most exciting spice mix in the world, but it isn't the worst-tasting either; and for the price, I can live with the slight taste difference between this stuff and what I assume a good pizza spice would taste like (like from Shakey's).

Because the Venetian Gold is relatively non-spicy, I "kick it up a notch" by adding some McCormick fine-ground oregano (it has the consistency of dust), some dehydrated basil leaves, and salt. 

As far as the sauce goes, I'd say the #10 can of Full Red and an added amount of water to achieve the desired consistency are the major factors.  After that, you can add spices to taste.  I will say that from years of experimentation, I can tell you that oregano, basil, and salt are the three big players in an authentic NY-tasting sauce.

--Dave

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2007, 08:24:31 PM »
Dave,

Is there a weight specified on the can of Stanislaus?

Peter

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Re: Canadave's *NEW* and *IMPROVED* NY style pizza--for DLX mixers
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2007, 08:51:13 PM »
Isn't 100 fluid ounces a weight?  ??? :)  If not, then nope, there's nothing else.  The only other measurement is 2.84 litres (1 gallon).


 

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