Author Topic: Yeast amount discrepancies...  (Read 1771 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline joejoepizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3
  • I Love Pizza!
Yeast amount discrepancies...
« on: February 21, 2007, 02:35:12 AM »
Hey everyone,
I've been making my dough using the Lehmann dough recipe.  The variation I use calls for 0.24 tsp of ADY and makes 22 oz. of dough.

In Tony Gemignani's NY dough recipe in his book Pizza, he lists using one package (2 tsp) of ADY for 45 oz. of dough, which he says is enough for 3 x 15" pizzas.  Also, in the March issue of Bon Appetit, Giada De Laurentiis lists an amount of 2 tsp for her recipe.

Why so much yeast?  I understand that the rising of the dough depends on the amount of yeast and temperature of the water in the dough.  In a cold ferment, though, how important are those variables?

Thanks to anyone who can help clear this up for me.


Offline November

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1877
  • Location: North America
  • Come for the food. Stay for the science.
    • Uncle Salmon
Re: Yeast amount discrepancies...
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2007, 04:14:33 AM »
joejoepizza,

I would say the easy explanation is that Tom Lehmann caters to commercial pizza makers where cost is everything and using very little yeast for cold fermentation is important for long storage, while the books and articles are meant for the average consumer who buys his yeast in 7g sachets and wants his dough to be ready within just a couple hours.

However, the more complicated side to this is that half a sachet is fine for almost any bench (room temperature counter) rise pizza dough (up to 35 oz).  It's not like we're making bread dough.  So the question could still be legitimately posed even in the light of knowing the two market segments being vied for.  Here's a speculation you can run up a flag pole and see if it waves: Tony and Giada get kickbacks from Fleischmann's of Canada.  Either that or they don't know any better.  I once witnessed Giada claim an inaccurate number of ounces in half a cup on her Everyday Italian show (I believe she said "8 ounces or a half 'a cup" while emptying an 8 fl oz container of something), so it's possible that she's being fed a recipe from somewhere and as a celebrity she unwittingly furthers its legitimacy.

Another possibility which is just as likely as any, is that these two recognize how infrequent the average person makes pizza at home.  The target audience isn't the diehards that come to this site, but the person who wants to impress his or her family with a homemade pizza once in a while.  With this being the case, who wants a half teaspoon of yeast left over from a batch of dough sitting around until the next time?  The line of reasoning is, it can't hurt to add all the yeast from the sachet, it's more convenient to dump all of it in rather than measure out a portion, and it prevents having to instruct the consumer how to store an opened sachet of yeast.

In other words, given all the possibilities, if you really want to know for sure, you will probably have to write them a letter to find out.

- red.november
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 04:32:36 AM by November »

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22126
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Yeast amount discrepancies...
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2007, 09:15:50 AM »
joejoepizza,

What November says about the Lehmann recipe is correct. It is intended for commercial use. In that context, the use of small amounts of yeast, along with controlling finished dough temperature, is calculated to prevent the dough balls from expanding too fast, using up a lot of space in the dough trays, and possibly running into each other in the dough trays. In a home setting, a few dough balls that double or triple in volume while in the refrigerator is unlikely to pose much of a problem, but it can be if you are making hundreds of dough balls at a time. A commercial cooler runs several degrees cooler than a home refrigerator but even then it can take a long while to cool down several trays of dough balls and keep them from growing too fast. So, controlling finished dough temperature and yeast quantity is important from a dough management standpoint in a commercial setting.

If you read what is written on the websites of yeast producers, I think you will see that they favor using larger rather than smaller quantities of yeast and higher temperatures in general. The biggest complaint they receive from home bakers has to do with failures that are attributed to temperature. This aspect was reported as to IDY at the theartisan.net website as follows:

Although warm rehydration maximizes the performance of instant active dry yeast, companies such as Fleischmann and Red Star suggest that home bakers use water ranging in temperature from 120 to 130, which is excessive. Since, leaching of cell constituents is minimized during rehydration when water is between 70-100 F, using lukewarm to warm water temperature in the dough is advised.

We have communicated with Fleischmann and have been informed that the vast majority of home baking complaints that Fleischmann receives about yeast failures stem from the dough being either too cold, or held at cold proofing temperatures. While 120 F. is certainly excessive for the experienced baker who has control of ingredients, weights, time and temperature, using this temperature does help the inexperienced baker to achieve a faster proof and and to obtain something tangible at the end of the baking process. It is important to note that Fleischmann's recommendations for their experienced retail and commercial customers are dramatically different, and comport with The Artisan's findings.


Peter

Offline icemncmth

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 42
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Yeast amount discrepancies...
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2007, 11:08:24 AM »
Hey everyone,
I've been making my dough using the Lehmann dough recipe.  The variation I use calls for 0.24 tsp of ADY and makes 22 oz. of dough.

In Tony Gemignani's NY dough recipe in his book Pizza, he lists using one package (2 tsp) of ADY for 45 oz. of dough, which he says is enough for 3 x 15" pizzas.  Also, in the March issue of Bon Appetit, Giada De Laurentiis lists an amount of 2 tsp for her recipe.

Why so much yeast?  I understand that the rising of the dough depends on the amount of yeast and temperature of the water in the dough.  In a cold ferment, though, how important are those variables?

Thanks to anyone who can help clear this up for me.
One thing you have to remember is that the amount of yeast is has to do with how much time
you need before you use the dough..

I sometimes want a nice sour dough pizza...I only use maybe a gram of yeast I have in the fridge...since I am using a small amount it will take time for the yeast to multiply and convert the sugars. When you use a small amount and take a longer time for the yeast to multiply you are also letting other organisms grow. This will give your dough a stronger flavor.

If you need dough in a hurry you use more yeast and adjust your recipe from there.

I use to make pizzas for a living and we would make hundreds of dough balls and keep them in the fridge...but sometimes you needed more dough than you planned on. You would have to make some and add more yeast for a quicker rise and to keep the same taste in the dough you might add in some of the already made dough balls..

One thing some people don't think about is that if you  make lets say pizza all the time then you will have yeast grown and floating around the air..That is why some pizza's can't be copied because the yeast in the air gives it a special flavor..Same goes for beer..There are a lot of people trying to copy Chimay but it will never be the same because the beer has been brewed in the same place for a long time....

Walk in a bakery and smell the fresh bread...you are also smelling the yeast in the air...

What this means is I only bought yeast to speed things up...I would just mix water and flour in equal portions and let it sit out overnight...I would have plenty of yeast in the morning...

I know there will be people on the list start yelling something about sour dough...but if you are in a place where yeast is abundant then it only sours if you keep feeding the same batch over and over.....