Author Topic: Little Black Egg  (Read 408644 times)

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Offline November

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #325 on: July 21, 2008, 04:43:54 PM »
Well, the only other thing that might be happening then is the body perhaps expanding a bit under the heat, tightening the lid. That's the only other logical explanation I can up with.

That's a far more likely scenario, and short of coming over to inspect what's going on, that would be my long-distance diagnosis.


Offline November

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #326 on: July 21, 2008, 04:56:19 PM »
November.....Seems that the reflectivity of certain shiny materials distorts the measurement made with the IR thermometer. The IR guns are calibrated to a certain emissivity standard and some materials fall outside of that standard. http://www.allqa.com/IR.htm

    Villa Roma

Technically that's comparing apples to oranges.  The reference you linked to has been written for the lowest common consumer.  What I'm saying is that your IR thermometer is probably quite accurate for what it's measuring.  It's not like you're measuring the temperature of the lid from inside the grill.  The emissivity standard is only there so the non-scientist consumer doesn't think he can measure the contact temperature of a super shiny object with a non-contact thermometer.  Most consumers wouldn't know any better otherwise.  What I'm also trying to tell you is that you probably aren't interested in knowing the contact temperature of the lid because what you're cooking isn't coming in contact with the lid.

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #327 on: July 22, 2008, 05:36:09 AM »
Technically that's comparing apples to oranges.  The reference you linked to has been written for the lowest common consumer.  What I'm saying is that your IR thermometer is probably quite accurate for what it's measuring.  It's not like you're measuring the temperature of the lid from inside the grill.  The emissivity standard is only there so the non-scientist consumer doesn't think he can measure the contact temperature of a super shiny object with a non-contact thermometer.  Most consumers wouldn't know any better otherwise.  What I'm also trying to tell you is that you probably aren't interested in knowing the contact temperature of the lid because what you're cooking isn't coming in contact with the lid.

OK so let me run this by you, if I coat the aluminum with some carbon that will change it's IR characteristics? I tried an experiment and took a small piece of aluminum and heated it up on the stove. I then melted some mashmallows slathered in butter on the aluminum. I measured 100 degrees on the uncoated side and 200+ degrees on the carbonized side.

    Villa Roma

Offline November

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #328 on: July 22, 2008, 06:54:37 AM »
OK so let me run this by you, if I coat the aluminum with some carbon that will change it's IR characteristics?

It will change how much thermal radiation is emitted.

I tried an experiment and took a small piece of aluminum and heated it up on the stove. I then melted some mashmallows slathered in butter on the aluminum. I measured 100 degrees on the uncoated side and 200+ degrees on the carbonized side.

I don't understand the purpose of your trials.  It has already been established that darker material emits more thermal radiation.

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #329 on: July 26, 2008, 04:15:53 PM »
I noticed a new Weber store opened near my town here in Mexico, and after having read abit about the LBE was interested in how much the same thing cost here in Mexico. Casual interest has I have a very good pizza oven I built.$1,100 pesos, or about $110 US dollars, over twice as much. Yikes, but I see it all the time here. Cheers, Don in Mexico

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #330 on: August 02, 2008, 02:05:54 PM »
Meet the newest member to the LBE family (drum roll please). Introducing the Mini Me LBE or M2LBE. :-D This one only took me about an hour to modify and I still have to cut a disc for the lid and make a support for the hose end of the burner but that will have to wait for another day.

The M2LBE sports a 12" stone and the burner is borrowed from the original LBE.  The burner is massive overkill so I may have to use a HD blow torch as an alternative. If you bought everything new this setup would only set you back about 70 clams. Not a bad ante to jump into the high heat arena, eh?

The versatility doesn't stop there though friends, install the lower grate and burn wood or charcoal, remove the legs and burner and park this puppy on the gas burner of your range. Wallah, instant indoor pizza oven! You can even plank it on the side burner of your gas BBQ. How can you not love this?

       Now you're cooking with gas.....Villa Roma
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 07:28:53 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #331 on: August 02, 2008, 10:52:11 PM »
Villa,

You gave your LBE a little brother, the M2! Reminds me of the BMW M3, only racier.  ;D

Jokes aside, I like your idea and even more the fact that it's portable and versatile to the point where the M2 is usable indoors. Now some members have access to a high-heat stove top AND can go on a camping trip, having pizza out in the sticks, without investing top $$$.

Great design, bro!
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 01:02:02 AM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #332 on: August 03, 2008, 12:04:08 AM »
Villa,

Come to think of it, if you fire up that burner I think it'll blow the lid right off.

It already looks like a flying saucer on steroids. I guess you could call it the M2-SOS  ;D

« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 12:10:13 AM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #333 on: August 03, 2008, 12:40:29 AM »
You gave your LBE a little brother, the M2! Reminds me of the BMW M3, only racier.  ;D


Essen....your reference to the BMW M3 gave me a brain storm.

The LBE M2, quite possibly the ultimate pizza machine! :-D :-D :-D

      Drive one today at your local LBE dealer.....Villa Roma

         P.S.  BPW stands for Black Egg Pizza Works
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 12:12:12 PM by Villa Roma »


Offline Essen1

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #334 on: August 03, 2008, 12:58:01 AM »
Villa,

Awesome!!  That's some funny stuff!  :-D

Honestly, when I first saw that pic, the game "Asteroid" came to mind...
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Essen1

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #335 on: August 03, 2008, 11:29:21 PM »
Just ordered me a couple of these...for my next pizza party.  ;D

Disclaimer: The T's are only for private use and not intended for anything other than that!


« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 11:31:13 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #336 on: August 04, 2008, 02:53:18 AM »
The first Tee was only a prototype but I ordered it anyways.  ::)

But since then I thought of a couple more, an Italian theme and an American theme.

Both shirts come in a light gray color, long sleeves and the text is printed in each country's respective colors. I also changed the wording a little...we don't know if the LBE is actually the "ultimate" Pizza machine, ...it's just a machine.

Or perhaps just a means to great pizza, if you will.



« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 03:16:38 AM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #337 on: August 04, 2008, 08:55:41 AM »
Villa, I'm really interested in your results when used on a gas stove top...we use gas in our kitchen and I bet it will work great right on top of the burners...
Please send pics of your testing!! once again you have created a fantastic invention. Thanks for sharing!

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #338 on: August 05, 2008, 12:01:19 AM »
OMG...I was abducted by aliens again!!! :-D :-D :-D

Ha, Ha, Ha, just kidding but I did make the saucer like discs for the M2 last night. The final countdown has begun with a predicted liftoff for this weekend.

MTPizza....I don't have a gas range so I can only use the propane burner from the cajun cooker. If that is too much heat, I'll switch gears and go with the blow torch.

     T minus 5 days and counting.....Villa Roma

Offline pizzacraver

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #339 on: August 05, 2008, 07:17:46 AM »
Hey Villa, I hate to burst your bubble just before liftoff but after using a 14'' weber style 'LBE' extensively for some months,temps achieved on the average type gas cooktop were quite mediocre. You can expect to get a bottom stone temp of around 550F after about 45min-60min and not much more heat being pushed over the top of a pie. It will be interesting to see however what a blow torch can do???The 50,000BTU burner I used worked pretty well, heating up to speed in 15-20mins tops.
Good Luck bro

pizzacraver.

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #340 on: August 05, 2008, 11:15:45 AM »
pizzacraver.....Thanks for the heads up, I'd hate to have to scrub the mission this close to the launch window. ::) I'm wondering if you experimented with an actual Weber or a similar version. Some of the other versions have a high dome as opposed to the Weber which has a very low ceiling. Also of importance is whether the latest LBE mods had been performed. The aluminum disc and side vent technologies are light years ahead of the competition and not only limits the air space but directs the hot air directly over the pizza and provides some insulation. The stone diameter and stone thickness are both players in the equation. Maybe you could post a picture of your LBE so we could "check it out". I've seen it here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6231.msg53535.html#msg53535 Is this the same setup as you have now? If it is then we're pretty close to the same except for the burner and I only have one stone on the bottom.

I think a stove top Weber based pizza oven is achievable even with a standard 12000 BTU burner but I'm not an expert so I'm just winging it. I'll have to see if I can find someone here with a gas range and give it a shot. Do you know what the BTU rating is on the indoor cooktop burner you used?

     Villa Roma

     
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 01:44:29 PM by Villa Roma »

Offline pizzacraver

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #341 on: August 06, 2008, 03:50:16 AM »
Villa, yes the 14" kettle I've been using is a Weber :) and my set-up was pretty much the same as yours bar the alloy top deflector(which I might add looks pretty interesting). I tried both 1&2 stones on the bottom, 2 stones producing the most optimal results but still quite poor when used in conjunction with the indoor gas top cooker.My stones are 12" Big Green Egg, the indoor gas top was putting out 11mj or in your speak around11,000BTU.The pies were cooking in around 15-20 min at about high 500'sF.Bottom line the pies sucked!!The flame from the cooker would burn bright orange after the first 20mins into the warm up as apposed to the crisp vibrant and blue flame that you need,I think the orange flame was possibly producing CARBON MONOXIDE(as you know....not good dude!) Thats when I stopped using it indoors. the only mod I've made since was a lazy- susan style turntable,the first stone rotating on top of the second buffer stone(way better than lifting the lid to turn the pie every 30sec).Top and bottom stones are 3" apart and I also increased the size of the side vent to access the stone for manual rotation.I think it pulls even more heat over the pies!! Now were talkin' leopard territory baby!!!:D At one point I was looking at building a full blown wood fire oven but the more I looked into it the more I came to realized just how convenient and easy it is to use the LBE.More props to you brother!!!!This little gizmo used in conjunction with the right heat source produces some pretty AWESOME pizza.However feeling the never ending urge to tinker I'm in the process putting together another LBE,slightly larger and cutting the side vent sufficiently enough so as to be able to feed the pies in without lifting the lid,then mounting the whole unit onto a stable stand thats at a good working height. Once I've had some success I'll post some pics :)These 2 shots are of my 14'' LBE
 pizzacraver
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 03:52:40 AM by pizzacraver »


Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #342 on: August 06, 2008, 11:58:18 AM »
Pizzacraver....Thanks for the update, it's nice to know this is an international effort just like the space station. ;) I'll have to pick up a 6er of Fosters for the launch this weekend and hoist one in your honor.

It sounds like the indoor stove burner you used was oxygen starved so you might try using a wok ring. It will lift the M2 up and allow more air to flow to the intake. They're only about $5-10 on-line if you can't find one locally.

I performed a test firing of the main rockets on the M2 and have very good news to report from mission control. I set the gas valve at just above idle and the M2 came up to 700 degrees in less than 10 minutes. It had good airflow out the side port so all systems are go for the launch window. ;D The max temp at idle was 800 degrees but I know I could get well above 1000 degrees with no problem if I kicked in the retro rockets. I removed the screws on the air shutter and gave it max thrust, the flame was a nice crisp blue color. In theory the M2 could cut the fuel consumption by 75% or more over the original LBE. I weighed the complete M2 and it tipped the scales at only 16 pounds. This gives an entirely new meaning to the term, "sweet 16".

On my last foray to the supermarket I discovered a new kid on the block in the bakery section so I picked up a bag of Gold Medal organic AP flour. It doesn't have malted barley in it so it should be great for a high temp test run. It may even be a good alternative to the high priced Caputo.

The question that remains to be answered is this. Is the M2 capable of a sub 1 minute pizza? I think so and I'll be sure to video tape this momentous event when it happens.

   T minus 3 days and counting..... Villa Roma
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 01:56:37 PM by Villa Roma »

Offline jasonmolinari

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #343 on: August 06, 2008, 01:26:42 PM »
I've been following this thread on and off and haven't seen a few thoughts i have, tested...any input is appreciated.

From reading it sounds like the hardest part with teh LBE is getting the top temperature hot enough to cook the top of the pizza before the bottom burns. Couple of thoughts:
1) Has anyone tried completely lining the inside of the lid of the weber with unglazed quarry tiles? I was thinking if the inside surface was nicely roughed up with sand paper, refractory cement might be able to stick the tiles to it. Basically create a mosaic of tiles on the inside surface of the dome. This would create a dome effect on the inside of the LBE. I would leave a vent area open/untiled. I think this might work better than having a single hung disk of tile from the lid.
2) It would seem that cutting a slot out for loading and unloading pizzas like Pizzacraver did in this last post would be better than opening and closing the lid. Once hte lid is opened i think too much heat is lost from the ambient. Having a sliding cover on this might make it even better.

If either or both of these have been tried i'd like to hear results.

thanks
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 01:41:42 PM by jasonmolinari »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #344 on: August 06, 2008, 01:41:27 PM »
Jason,

My LBE is undergoing a major update and it is exactly what you are describing. However, I'm not using refractory cement nor tiles. I am installing a new lid, the Weber Smoky Mountain, lined with ceramic fiber blanket (Superwool) in the ceiling and body, which will also include a top ceramic coating.

http://www.axner.com/axner/equipment/superwool-607max-blanket.php

As far as the opening goes, a buddy of mine is currently cutting out a "door" which will eliminate the removal of the lid every time I have to turn the pizza. What also helps, and thanks for Red November and his suggestion, is to carbonize the underside of the ceiling stone.

All in all, the new mods should allow for better heat retention and save more fuel. I'll post some pics when I get my lid back.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline jasonmolinari

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #345 on: August 06, 2008, 01:45:05 PM »
Essen, so you're going to envelop the dome with ceramic blanket on the inside and out in an attempt to retain heat?

Will there be no stones on the dome to retain and emit heat onto the top of the pizza? Does the LBE rely only on airflow over the pizza to cook the top? I thought it used the top stones to retain heat and emit it. You ceramic blanket would only retain heat in the dome area. This would work as long as you don't open the dome at all...i think.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #346 on: August 06, 2008, 01:49:39 PM »
Jason,

I have a 14" Big Green Egg pizza stone installed in the ceiling, which currently hovers about 2.5" above the pizza. And it will be installed in the new lid.

The lid will only be lined on the inside with heat insulation, not the outside.
Mike

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Offline jasonmolinari

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #347 on: August 06, 2008, 01:56:31 PM »
Ah, i understand now. Looking forward to the results.

Offline November

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #348 on: August 06, 2008, 04:48:35 PM »
A cutaway illustration of what I believe is the design intent.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 04:59:37 PM by November »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Little Black Egg
« Reply #349 on: August 06, 2008, 05:08:54 PM »
RN,

That's spot on! Cool graphic...
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein