Author Topic: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!  (Read 39834 times)

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Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2007, 02:41:33 PM »
ManChicken....I have the coated spiral hook that I run on my K5SS Kitchenaid mixer. It has the narrow bowl and I haven't had any problems with the dough clinging to the hook. My batch size is usually around 1500 grams with a 66-68 hydration level. I mix on stir speed for a total of 4 minutes. The flour I use is 10-12% gluten.

As Randy suggested, you may want to try increasing your batch size. The KA mixers don't do well with small batches. I don't think you'll see a big difference between the burnished hook and the coated hook.

Another technique that works well is to hold back about a cup or so of flour and let the mixer knead a wet dough. Then slowly add in the remaining flour toward the end of the mix.

High gluten flour will have a tendency to ball up so you may want to try a lower gluten flour.

So increasing your batch size, wet kneading and lower gluten flour should solve your problem.

Here's a few videos of my mixer in action with the spiral hook and a 1500 gm dough batch.





     Hope this helps.....Villa Roma

« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 02:51:58 PM by Villa Roma »


Offline ManChicken

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2007, 01:56:39 AM »
Thanks for the suggestions.  Unfortunately doubling my recipe is not really feasable, as I am single and live alone - As much as I love it, I just can't eat pizza for 4 days in a row or my butt will explode into gargantuan proportions! :)

I will keep playing and try some of the other suggestions.

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2007, 03:44:00 AM »
MC....I make 8 pizzas, eat 1, and freeze the rest. Then you don't have to cook for awhile ::).

     Villa Roma

     
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 03:36:33 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline canadianbacon

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2007, 09:55:48 AM »
The main reason is becaus the sprial hook puts *much* more stress on the bearings in the head of the mixer, when you
see the KA in action with the sprial hook, you can see how much more intense the mixing is, vs the "C" dough hook that
in my mind, should never have been even put on the market.

That being said, - I do believe that if you don't stress the mixer, you could prob get away with using the sprial hook.

Me ? - I may take the plunge and buy the spiral hook, but would limit my dough mixing to enough dough for 1 medium pizza.

I've had my KA mixer now for, hmm, maybe 12 or 13 years, and it is still in mint condition.  I wouldn't want to ruin it in a few months
by stressing it.  ( I also have the DLX mixer however, and use that now for all pizza doughs ) ( but being a gadget guy, I do like that sprial hook )

That sprial hook is a thing of beauty isn't it !  ;D
Villa Roma,
It's funny, I was just thinking about this just yesterday. I've been considering doing the exact same thing you did and was going to start researching this morning. :o
I have the KSM150. My dough batches are generally in the 500-900g range. I can't see why I would have a problem using a spiral hook with my machine. I wonder why KA doesn't recommend this.
Pizzamaker, Rib Smoker, HomeBrewer, there's not enough time for a real job.

Offline canadianbacon

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2007, 10:05:46 AM »
Hi Villa Roma,

These images that you posted below, are these images from a company that actually does these modifications ?
If so, that's interesting, because I never knew there was a place out there willing to modify KA mixers.

If so, where did those images originate ? maybe they have info posted on where to send the mixer etc, for those
interested.



MTPIZZA....I bought the propane burner solely to use with the LBE to cook pizza. You can use the burner for many things like brewing beer, boiling lobster and corn or frying turkeys etc. as you mentioned.

Here are 2 solutions to the issues surrounding useage of the spiral hook on a C hook mixer. The fix would simply involve removing the planetary housing and performing 2 machining operations. The illustration is for the K5SS mixer. The first illustration is the original design, followed by the 2 solutions.

Solution 1:
The first operation would be to widen the retaining ring groove on the attachment shaft to accept a new heavy duty retaining ring.

The second operation would be to remove some material from around the planetary housing to allow space for a thrust washer and a nylon washer. A metal washer can also be used in lieu of the nylon washer. A machine shop would be able to do this work or someone with a lathe and drill press.

Solution 2:
The second illustration shows another fix using a redesigned bushing. It's a little more involved as the original bushing would have to be pressed out and replaced with a redesigned bushing but would be a better solution. The machining operations are similar to solution 1.

Seems like someone could make a fortune modifying these mixers. Charge $30 and make $20 profit. You can easily modify 4 per hour so that would be $80 per hour or $640 a day!!! :o :o :o Let's just say there are 1 million mixers out there, can you say..... CHA-CHING?  Sure, I knew you could!

       Villa Roma
Pizzamaker, Rib Smoker, HomeBrewer, there's not enough time for a real job.

Offline canadianbacon

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2007, 10:09:05 AM »
Somebody mentioned you can buy the sprial hook on ebay, or you could simply call KA again
and order the spiral hook for "your" "Pro600 mixer  ;)


In search of a spiral hook, I called Kitchenaid to make sure I was ordering the right one, I have a tilt-head Artisan model, and they said my mixer wasn't made to use the spiral hooks, so I'm out of luck. She even said, "yeah the C-hook makes the dough climb up the hook and they don't work that well." REALLY?? Then why do you offer it? Guess I should have splurged and gotten the Pro600.

Bart
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Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2007, 03:09:08 PM »
Hi Villa Roma,

These images that you posted below, are these images from a company that actually does these modifications ?
If so, that's interesting, because I never knew there was a place out there willing to modify KA mixers.

If so, where did those images originate ? maybe they have info posted on where to send the mixer etc, for those
interested. A machine shop would be happy to do it for a small fee.




CB....I made those drawings as proposed solutions to the spiral hook issue. I'm not aware of any company that would modify the mixers. It seems like the third solution could be performed easily and inexpensively by someone that was handy. A machine shop would be happy to do it for a small fee.

     Villa Roma
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 03:39:41 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline abc

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2007, 04:50:17 PM »
KitchenAid KSM90 is what i have. 

Is the spiral hook physically not able to lock in place on some of the older KA mixers, is that the problem?

If it can, i have no problem buying one, thanks.

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2007, 12:25:10 AM »
KitchenAid KSM90 is what i have. 

Is the spiral hook physically not able to lock in place on some of the older KA mixers, is that the problem?

If it can, i have no problem buying one, thanks.

I don't know if the spiral hook will fit on a KSM90 but you may want to go to a store that sells that type and take the hook off the spiral model and see if it fits on a model similar to yours. I believe the mounting shafts are the same on all the mixers and it's the bowl clearance that could be an issue. The KSM90 has a 4.5 quart bowl and the other mixers are 5 or 6 quart.

My K5SS mixer is 12 years old and the spiral hook works perfectly.

     Villa Roma
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 10:10:05 AM by Villa Roma »


Offline pcampbell

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2007, 02:42:46 AM »
So does the spiral hook fit on an Artisan mixer (regardless of whether or not it is recommended) or yes only with modifications?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 02:59:35 AM by pcampbell »
Patrick

Offline pcampbell

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2007, 04:17:49 PM »
One of the things I noticed is the spiral hook you never had to stop the mixer and stop the dough from rising.  I have been making 3 22oz balls (1000 grams of flour) at once in the Artisan mixer, and while I don't really think it is too much for the motor or the bowl, the dough just keeps riding up and up. 

I  also noticed my mixer is leaking a little bit of oil.

In your new design, would you make a new grove for the snap ring, lower, or are you pulling the attachment shaft down enough to fit a larger washer and using the original spot for the snap ring?  I have not taken my mixer apart to see how this works exactly..
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 04:22:17 PM by pcampbell »
Patrick

Offline jimd

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2007, 07:40:51 PM »
I have a four quart Kitchen Aid mixer (I think this is their smallest). I bought the spiral hook and discovered that, while it fits onto the shaft no problem, the hook is too "long" and hits the bottom of the bowl. Thus, it was not usable "as is".

I found that if I raise the mixer arm (i.e., the large half of the unit onto which the hook is attached) about half way up, the hook is able to clear the bottom and also make its complete turn around the bowl. Rather than stand around holding the arm in the correct position, I fashioned a crude block or shim to keep it in the correct position.

So far so good, and the spiral hook is a huge improvement over the old "C" hook.

I understand that using the spiral hook in this fashion could, perhaps, damage the mixer, but I will take that chance and see how it goes.

Jim

Offline pcampbell

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2007, 04:23:51 PM »
Could someone measure the overall length of their spiral hook?  Is there any difference between the white and "burnished" aluminum in terms of length?
Patrick

Offline doughboy

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2007, 05:06:10 PM »
Could someone measure the overall length of their spiral hook?  Is there any difference between the white and "burnished" aluminum in terms of length?

I just bought a KA prof 600, the metal alum spiral measures 7 inches from the top to the tip in a straight line. When I bought it, I was disapointed that it didn't have dough hook, well, now I'm pleasantly surprised it is for the best.....have always mixed my pizza doughs by hand.  I now have to read a millon posts to get the right technique for the KA mixer.  Already made several batches with very good results, just need to zero it in.


Offline pcampbell

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2007, 05:11:08 PM »
Thank you for the measurement.  I am guessing this also means that it will not work with the Artisan due to the length.  When I put my regular C hook in there, which is about 5.5" in length, there is no more than about 0.5" between the end of the hook and the bottom of the bowl.  I guess this means either save up for a new mixer.... or improvise!  I could be the first 3rd party source for spiral hooks for Artisan mixers  :pizza:
Patrick

Offline doughboy

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2007, 12:43:56 PM »
Thank you for the measurement.  I am guessing this also means that it will not work with the Artisan due to the length.  When I put my regular C hook in there, which is about 5.5" in length, there is no more than about 0.5" between the end of the hook and the bottom of the bowl.  I guess this means either save up for a new mixer.... or improvise!  I could be the first 3rd party source for spiral hooks for Artisan mixers  :pizza:

I measured the spiral from the tip to the top, a full length, but you measure for the tip to the under side, it is 5.5", so it depends where you measure from, and from the sounds of it, other people are using them in their artisans also already.

Offline pcampbell

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2007, 01:38:21 PM »
Well I ordered one.  It was $10 including shipping so how can you go wrong.  But my C hook is only about 5.5" from top to bottom and not a lot of bowl clearance.  I do have a 5 qt bowl if that means anything.  We'll find out.  If it does not work I may look into having some made.  I haven't had anyone with an Artisan be able to give me a yes or no that it fits!
Patrick


Offline zymurgymaster

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2007, 01:49:38 PM »
pcampbell,

Where did you find a sprial hook for $10?  The cheapest I could find one was for ~$20 and that did not include shipping.

Could you please provide me with a link it that is possible.

Offline pcampbell

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2007, 04:03:40 PM »
It was an ebay auction.  They have a bunch for $20 including shipping.  I just happened to catch this at the right time I guess...
Patrick

Offline pcampbell

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2007, 12:03:50 PM »
I just wanted to confirm that there is no way a regular KA600 spiral hook will work with an Artisan mixer.  It attaches correctly but is quite a bit too long.
Patrick

Offline mmarston

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2007, 10:20:41 AM »
Has anyone cut one of these off yet for the smaller mixers?
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Offline pcampbell

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2007, 05:57:42 PM »
I am not sure you will get the same effect by cutting it short because the curve isn't going to "complete".  I was looking into having shorter overall ones manufactured but have come to the conclusion that the easiest way for me to do it is probably to shell out 200 bucks for a used Pro 600 and sell my Artisan for 100 and call it a day. 

I am really getting sick of my C hook especially when you see the videos of how well the spiral works!  I think that the Artisan does a poor job kneading just 1000 grams of dough (entire ball) and that is about 2 pies.  I think at 500 grams it seems to work OK.  So I am in search of a used Pro 600 now - I think I have my wife's approval.  :chef:
Patrick

Offline mmarston

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2007, 06:11:59 PM »
I guess I'll be looking for spousal approval as well. Gonna be tough after the 2Stone investment.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 08:57:58 PM by mmarston »
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Offline pcampbell

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2007, 02:08:47 PM »
I am looking real hard at the Refurbed KV25G0X models on ebay.  This is 1 step down from the Pro 600 but comes with the PowerKnead hook.  Essentially it is a less powerful motor and a smaller bowl, and the handle is not ergo.  They are sold directly from KA and it looks like if you are patient, about $200 including shipping.   

I wonder if Villa or whomever can chime in to let us know if you ever have any dough creeping problems.  I watched your YouTube videos and it doesn't seem like it.  What was the total weight of the dough balls seen in these videos or total weight you feel comfortable with in the 5 qt.

EDIT Wow.  After mulling and comparing specs of KA mixers all day, I found a brand new KV25G0X on ebay for $172 including shipping.  I believe this is quite reasonable so I purchased it.  This is the Kitchen Aid Professional 5 Plus Series Stand Mixer, again one step down from the Pro 600.  Can't wait to receive it and try it out.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 05:17:34 PM by pcampbell »
Patrick

Offline PizzaBrasil

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Re: Spiral hook on a C hook Kitchenaid? Yeah Baby!!!!
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2007, 10:24:32 AM »
I made a spiral or helicoidal hook by myself, just learning and or copying from a lot of information on the WWW.
Basically, the secret is that the spiral needs to rotate to push down the dough, having a shape that be in contact with it in so many places as possible.
It works beatefully with my last three and half pound dough.
Following some pictures.

Luis


 

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