Author Topic: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!  (Read 76107 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« on: October 13, 2007, 02:47:04 PM »
Ba-Boooooom!!!!!!

What the hell was that? Quite simply it was the sound of the whole wheat pizza barrier being shattered. ;D

That's right folks, I made pizza with 100% whole grains and it tasted great and was nice and light. I used 100% Gold Medal stone ground whole wheat flour. I know it's hard to believe so I have pictures to prove it.

This batch was 90% hydration but it had too much elasticity so I'm going to ratchet it up to 100% next time.

Isn't it time you jumped on board the stone ground whole grain pizza crazy train?

      All abooooooard......Villa Roma
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 03:55:57 AM by Villa Roma »


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22453
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2007, 03:51:51 PM »
Villa Roma,

The pizzas and the bagels look great.

Can you tell us what dough formulation and dough processing/management methods you used to break the barrier?

Peter

Offline abatardi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 432
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Santa Clara, CA
  • It's MOOPS!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2007, 07:35:39 PM »
haha nice.  looks great.  I'm assuming about 70% hydration?

- aba
Make me a bicycle CLOWN!

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2007, 04:48:48 AM »
I still have a few more tweaks before this recipe is ready for prime time but here's a basic outline of the procedure.

1. Preferment
2. Wicked High hydration
3. Fine ground flour
4. Small amount of yeast
5. Long room temp rise
6. High heat oven
7. Mixer is optional (really)

Mixer optional, say what? ??? That's right, as an example the attached whole grain pizza was mixed by hand. I'm gunning for a lite, healthy, great tasting whole grain pizza that everyone can make using basic ingredients found in the supermarket. I'm out to change the way America eats.....pizza.

Once I get this recipe fine tuned I'll post a video so you can see this first hand. I'm so close, I can almost taste it. 8)

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 03:45:45 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline MTPIZZA

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 273
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2007, 11:17:25 AM »
Thanks Villa Roma for taking the lead here. I've always wanted to up the healthy benefits of my pie by cutting down on the white flour. Of course no one wants to loose the great crust we all strive to achieve. I have added in the past the King Arthur all natural whole wheat WHITE flour... yup its white whole wheat. So for maybe people who don't want the dark looking whole wheat type crust -- this flour keeps it white but still uses the benefits of whole wheat.
I haven't formulated a recipe yet, but you have got my pizza enthusiasm going for sure!... Lead on!

Offline 2stone

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 523
    • 2stone blog
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2007, 05:50:06 PM »
Villa Roma

wow....nice crust
making wwp like that is
no small feat.. I've been working on it
myself...since I really need to cut down
on the white bread.

willard
2Stone blog: www.2stoneblog.com

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2007, 02:57:14 AM »
Villa Roma

wow....nice crust making wwp like that is no small feat..

willard

Yeah I know, I take a size 13 shoe myself! :-D :-D :-D

But seriously folks, this recipe is really well suited for high heat devices like the LBE and the 2Stone ovens. It should also work equally well in a brick oven at about 650 degrees. At 500+ degrees in a home oven you won't see as much spring and it will take a little longer but it still comes out great.

On my last batch I used 90% hydration and the elasticity was too much using the mixer. I have a test batch at 100% hydration going and I think that will be ideal. The 90% batch is good when mixing by hand as hand mixing does not develop the gluten like the mixer can.

Once I get the recipe nailed hopefully 2stone, MTPIZZA and others can road test it and we can tweak it up some more.

      Villa Roma
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 05:16:40 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline DWChun

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2007, 11:27:45 PM »
Wow, great looking WW pizzas, Villa Roma. I have a bunch of WW flour just waiting for use. I'm going to jump on board the crazy train!


DW

Offline scottfsmith

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 117
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2007, 09:18:28 AM »
WOW, that is awesome!  I sprung for a 2stone a few days ago and can't wait to try some whole wheat recipes.  I have made a few whole wheat pizzas in the past and even though they didn't rise as much, the flavor is outta site.  I'd appreciate at some point if you would flesh out the recipe in terms of how long a preferment and ferment, how much kneading, how fine the flour was, etc.

Scott

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2007, 03:18:57 PM »
Glad to hear there's interest in whole grain healthy eating. Here is the ingredient list for the pizza crust. I was using a preferment but found it wasn't necessary. This is for 400 grams of flour, you can scale it up or down to suit your needs. I used 1/32 of a tsp IDY per 100 gm of flour. You can find mini measuring spoon sets on e-bay or at kitchen stores from 1/64 through 1/4 tsp.

400 gm Gold Medal stone ground whole wheat flour (100%)
200 gm water (50%)
200 gm cold milk (50%)
8 gm honey (2%)
8 gm sea salt (2%)
8 gm lite olive oil (2%)
1/8 tsp IDY
small pinch ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

I start this the night before and it's literally a dump and stir. I put the flour in a bowl and dump everything else in and stir it with the end of a long plastic spoon. Let it sit for an hour and stir it again, then just let it sit overnight. In the morning stir it again. About every 3-4 hours give it a stir, at this point you can either refridgerate it or toss it in a mixer or processor to really develop the glutenus to the maximus. :-D You can also scale it and use it with just the hand mixing.

I'll be making a video later this week and I plan on making three batches. One will be hand mixed, one I'll use my mixer and the last I'll hand mix and retard in the refer. I made a test refer dough and I took it straight from the fridge and cooked it with no warm up time and it was fantastico, ::) as they say in Italy. I'll post a link to the video probably late Saturday or Sunday.

      Villa Roma




« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 03:06:15 AM by Villa Roma »


Offline enchant

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 307
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Marshfield, MA
  • World-class pizza maker in the making
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2007, 05:43:06 PM »
Do you use sea salt because it's superior for this particular recipe, or is that simply your salt of choice for most things?
--pat--

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2007, 12:26:56 AM »
Do you use sea salt because it's superior for this particular recipe, or is that simply your salt of choice for most things?

enchant....Yeah, I use sea salt just because it's more natural. It won't make a bit of difference in the final product.

The 3 big players in this recipe are the GM WW flour, ultra high hydration and the vitamin C. If you use a different flour than GM WW you're probably going to have to adjust the hydration level somewhat. Fortunately GM WW is available at most supermarkets in the U.S.

For the vitamin C, I just use 500 mg chewable C tablets and grind off a pinch with a fine cheese grater.

The key point is to keep it as simple and basic as possible.

       Villa Roma
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 03:29:51 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2007, 07:25:10 AM »
Hello whole grain fans,

I have good news and not so good news. The good news is that I made pizza this weekend. ;D The bad news is that I didn't have time to make a video. :'( Too many other "commitments" took priority.

This batch acted somewhat different than my last few batches. I started on a new bag of flour and although the expiration dates are within 4 hours of each other, this bag was not as easy to work with as the previous bag.

One issue may be that the flour is old as the date on the bag is 06 Dec 07 :(. Being a US civilian working at an Air Force base in Germany, I'm at the mercy of what they stock in the commissary. Seems whole wheat flour is not a big mover so it sits on the shelves a long time and it usually gets tossed out when it reaches the expiration date.

This bag just didn't seem to have the elasticity that the other bag of flour offered. Next go around I'll lower the hydration back to 90% and see if that solves the problem. It would be nice if I could get my hands on a nice fresh bag of flour.

Here's a picture of one of the pizzas. This one I retarded in the refer for about 30 hours and used it straight from the fridge. Not the best but far from the worst. I think if I would have let it come back to room temp I would have a lot more spring to it.

      Villa Roma

« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 07:28:32 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline 2stone

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 523
    • 2stone blog
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2007, 11:16:51 PM »
Villa Roma

the freshness of whole wheat makes a big difference,
I have some neighbors that always grind their own wheat and
when they upgraded I got the old grinder. It works great the new one is
just quieter. I'm going to have to get some and grind it.
There are different types winter, red, white etc. you know much about
the various wheats?

willard
2Stone blog: www.2stoneblog.com

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2007, 03:04:57 AM »
Willard....I'm not an expert on whole wheat flour. I know the GM whole wheat flour uses hard red spring wheat and it can have a harsh, grassy taste to it. That's why I use a small amount of yeast and long fermentation. That seems to develop the small amount of gluten as well as temper the strong taste of the HRS wheat.

I understand from what I've read that when you grind your own grain you should allow the flour to age as this oxidizes the gluten and makes it stronger.

    Villa Roma

Offline Furo

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 29
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Kansas City Mo
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2007, 08:29:45 PM »
Willard,
You might want to try Kamut wheat. It is a very large kernel with a great taste, no bitterness and seems to work into a nice dough without oxidation. It has a high protein content too. I have used it straight from the grinder and any that is not used goes into the freezer. I buy mine at the local Wild Oats Store, which was just bought out by Whole Foods. It is a type of durum wheat. Don't know if the history of it is true or not but still a great wheat. Have even used it to make a wild yeast starter with grapes from my yard and a sprouted wheat type of "Essene" bread.
Woody.
Being crazy isn't a necessity but it sure is FUN!

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2007, 02:37:12 PM »
Furo.....The kamut flour sounds very interesting. Could you post some pictures of your pizzas?

    Thanks....Villa Roma

Offline Furo

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 29
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Kansas City Mo
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2007, 08:34:07 PM »
Villa Roma,
Unfortunately the only digital camera I have is on my cell phone and the picture quality is poor. I hope to convince the wife that we need a good camera to take pictures of our ferrets ( and my fig trees to post on a  different forum). The style I have made with it is Sicilian since that is the kind we have always made. I just picked up 3 pounds of Kamut kernels at  Whole Foods yesterday and since I am on vacation next week I might be able to whip one out. The wife already has scheduled me to make some goodies for her office pot luck, nothing too fancy, Sicilian olive salad, some aged provolone and Asiago cheese with Volpi salami.   
Will try to get some pictures of the pizza if the folks here can forgive the low picture quality. Will have to use regular yeast, don't have any starter going at this time (no grapes this year). Still have some fresh Principe Borghese tomatoes, probably the last fresh from the garden for this year, and some fresh basil.
Looks like I will be in the kitchen this vacation.
Woody.
Being crazy isn't a necessity but it sure is FUN!

Offline 2stone

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 523
    • 2stone blog
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2007, 08:48:11 PM »
Furo,

You got my interest up on the Kamut,
I have gotten the gospel on how all of the
good nutrients in whole wheat are only preserved
if you grind the wheat and make the bread immediately.
Then I read that it should rest for two weeks and oxidize.
So you kind of get to pick between good nutrients and good gluten.
I've got a good source for specialty grains nearby. I will pick some up
and give it a try.

thanks,
willard
2Stone blog: www.2stoneblog.com

Offline Furo

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 29
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Kansas City Mo
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2007, 10:30:05 PM »
Willard,
I never could understand why they would want to age the flour since the oil in the wheat germ will quickly go rancid and give it an off taste. I know in refined flours that they remove the germ and only mill the inner parts of the kernel, what a waste. The first thing I noticed when I ground up the Kamut was that it didn't have that strong smell like the packaged whole wheat flour, more of a nutty sweet aroma. The first thing I made with was a pizza, took more water than usual to get the feel right for the dough (old habit of cooking by the feel and taste). Used the wife for a guinea pig since I knew if she liked it then it was good, she is kind of like the Mikey kid in the old "kix" cereal commercial. Tried it next in a sprouted wheat loaf, very moist and dense but pleasantly sweet with nothing in it but the wheat and the moisture from the sprouted kernels.
I use the milling attachment on my kitchenaid mixer, it gives kind of a coarser flour so I sift it and regrind the bigger pieces, still not as fine as a good mill can do or what comes out of a sack but I kind of like the texture it gives. A little coarseness is good for the GI tract, I understand it also takes longer for the system to break down the starches to sugars. My wish list includes a better mill so I can use the Kamut flour in other baking applications, I think it would be great in a pie crust and even biscuits. Might even try it in cookies some day. Hope your trials with it come out good.
Woody.   
Being crazy isn't a necessity but it sure is FUN!