Author Topic: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza  (Read 500254 times)

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Offline tdeane

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #720 on: September 07, 2008, 09:43:24 AM »
Thanks Peter. I didn't really mean to come on too strong. I'm kind of a say what I think kind of guy.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #721 on: October 04, 2008, 09:42:18 PM »
In light of the recent interest by some of our members in using frozen pizza dough (see, for example, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6623.msg56822.html#msg56822, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7198.0.html and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7216.0.html), I thought that it might be useful and instructive to take another stab at making a frozen dough version of the basic Lehmann NY style dough formulation. Since the last time I made such a frozen dough, I have read and learned more about how possibly to make a more credible frozen dough in a home environment using a standard refrigerator freezer compartment.

As a result of my research, I incorporated the following attributes and features into the latest frozen Lehmann dough: 1) I used a flour with a medium protein content (in my case, I used King Arthur bread flour at 12.7% protein); 2) I lowered the hydration from 62% usually used with the King Arthur bread flour to 59% (which reduces the amount of water to be frozen that might harm the yeast); 4) I increased the amount of yeast (IDY in my case) by threefold to compensate for damage to the yeast during the static home freezing process, and to allow enough yeast to leaven the dough during the defrost and bench warm-up periods; 5) I used ice cold water (at 33.7 degrees F) to lower the finished dough temperature, except for a small amount which I used to rehydrate the IDY at around 105 degrees F for about 10 minutes (this was done to prevent the IDY from being shocked by the ice cold water); 6) I increased the amount of salt (to 2%) to improve the stability of the dough, and used oil (at 3%) to improve the texture of the dough; 7) I used honey (at 3%) in lieu of table sugar because of the rheology (flow) benefits from using the honey, and to feed the yeast;  8) I used soy flour (at 5%) and a pinch of ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) to strengthen the dough (the soy flour also increases the protein content); and 9) I used short mix/knead times to limit the heat imparted to the dough during the mixing/kneading steps. The King Arthur bread flour and the soy flour were sifted before using to improve the hydration of that blend.

Once the dough was prepared, it was lightly oiled and placed in a zip-type storage bag, flattened (to allow the dough to freeze faster), and then placed into the freezer compartment of my standard home refrigerator. The dough remained in the freezer compartment for 10 days, whereupon it was removed to the refrigerator compartment to defrost for one day (the recommended period) before using.

The specific dough formulation I used (as provided using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html) is set forth below. In using the tool, I used a nominal thickness factor of 0.105, and a bowl residue compensation of 1.5% to compensate for minor losses during the preparation of the dough. The dough weight was selected to make a single 14” pizza.

King Arthur Bread Flour (100%):
Water (59%):
IDY (0.75%):
Salt (2%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3%):
Honey (3%):
Soy Flour (5%):
Total (172.75%):
269.24 g  |  9.5 oz | 0.59 lbs
158.85 g  |  5.6 oz | 0.35 lbs
2.02 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.67 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
5.38 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.96 tsp | 0.32 tbsp
8.08 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.78 tsp | 0.59 tbsp
8.08 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.16 tsp | 0.39 tbsp
13.46 g | 0.47 oz | 0.03 lbs | 6.73 tsp | 2.24 tbsp
465.11 g | 16.41 oz | 1.03 lbs | TF = 0.106575
Note: Added pinch of ascorbic acid; pizza size = 14”; nominal thickness factor = 0.105; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

To prepare the dough, I started by rehydrating the IDY for 10 minutes in a small amount of the formula water, which was heated to 105 degrees F. The rest of the formula water, at 33.7 degrees F, was added to the mixer bowl of my standard KitchenAid stand mixer, followed by the salt, ascorbic acid, honey, oil, and the rehydrated IDY. Using the flat beater attachment at stir speed, I then gradually added the flour/soy blend to the mixer bowl. Once the dough mass pulled away from the sides of the bowl and gathered around the flat beater attachment, about 1-2 minutes, I cleared the dough mass from the flat beater attachment and switched to the C-hook. The dough was then kneaded at speed 2 until the dough was smooth and cohesive but still a bit on the sticky side, about 4 minutes. I then removed the dough from the mixer and kneaded and shaped it by hand to form a round ball, about 30 seconds. I estimate that the total dough preparation time between the time I started adding ingredients to the mixer bowl to the finished dough was about 6 minutes. The finished dough weight was around 16.2 ounces, and its temperature was 76.5 degrees F. The dough went straight into the freezer compartment of my refrigerator, as noted above.

Once the dough was removed from the freezer compartment, it was put into the refrigerator compartment for one day so that it could thaw out. After the one-day defrost period, the dough was re-kneaded (as Tom Lehmann recommends), placed on my work surface, covered with a sheet of plastic wrap, and allowed to warm up for two hours. The dough was ready to use after about one hour of warm-up but I decided to let it ferment another hour in order to get more by-products of fermentation. The dough was then formed into a 14” skin. The dough handled very well, with a good balance between elasticity and extensibility. After the skin was dressed (basic pepperoni style), it was baked on a pizza stone that had been placed on the lowest oven rack position and preheated at around 525 degrees F for an hour. It took six minutes to bake the pizza.

The finished pizza is shown below. The finished crust had good color and a good-sized rim, with a few large bubbles, and a soft, open and airy crumb that I would best describe as bread-like. However, the crust was a bit too salty and it was not particularly chewy or crispy as is characteristic of the NY style. Also, the finished crust did not have the crumb texture or flavors and aromas that come from long fermentation times. As noted above, the defrost period was only one day, and a lot of that time was devoted to defrosting the dough rather than fermenting it. A good part of the fermentation by-products were no doubt produced during the warm-up period on the bench.

While making the frozen dough version of the Lehmann dough formulation was a success in my opinion, there are many tradeoffs. For example, while the use of high levels of sugar (honey, in my case) and oil help to make a dough that can be successfully frozen, the result is a crust that is soft and tender and breadlike rather than chewy or crispy, and the sugar at the level noted will cause the crust to brown before becoming crispy. Also, by freezing the dough, there is a diminishment of the usual by-products of fermentation that contribute to the color, texture, flavor and aroma of the finished crust and crumb. I could tell immediately from looking at the smooth outer surface of the rim and after the first bite of the pizza that it lacked many of the attributes of a long-fermented dough that I personally prefer and work hard to achieve. However, I understand and appreciate that such attributes aren’t always needed and that having some frozen dough balls on hand can have value under certain conditions and situations. It is also possible that the frozen dough I made may be improved, as by using less sugar and oil and allowing the frozen dough to defrost over a 2 or 3 day period rather than one day, even if the longer fermentation time produces a more extensible dough with attributes of a somewhat overfermented dough. It might also be useful to use vital wheat gluten in lieu of the soy flour, both of which are commonly used for doughs that are to be frozen.

FWIW, I estimate that my dough ball cost me around $0.75 in materials based on supermarket prices. I made my frozen dough to learn more about the principles and processes involved, but if one is not interested in such things it might be cheaper and more convenient to buy frozen dough balls from Wal-Mart or Sam’s or other such stores rather than trying to make them at home.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 03:44:19 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #722 on: January 03, 2009, 10:41:11 AM »
Recently, at Reply 48 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg64308.html#msg64308, I described a Papa John’s clone dough that I made with a window of usability of eight days. To achieve that long window, one of the measures I took was to use active dry yeast (ADY) in dry form, that is, without first rehydrating it in water, as is the usual recommended method. Rather, I simply mixed the dry ADY in with the flour, much as I would do if I were using instant dry yeast (IDY). Because of the success of that dough, and the pizza that was made from it, and at the urging of Mad Ernie at Reply 50 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg64316.html#msg64316, I was prompted to examine whether the “dry ADY” method would work with some other dough formulation. With that objective in mind, I decided to modify the basic Lehmann NY style dough formulation to see if the principles I learned from my Papa John’s experiment would extend to the Lehmann NY style. In so doing, I used several of the techniques described previously at the alternative KitchenAid dough making method at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.0.html.

Using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, I came up with the following modified Lehmann NY style dough formulation, for a 16” pizza:

King Arthur Bread Flour-sifted (100%):
Water (62%):
ADY (0.375%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Total (165.125%):
315.34 g  |  11.12 oz | 0.7 lbs
195.51 g  |  6.9 oz | 0.43 lbs
1.18 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.31 tsp | 0.1 tbsp
5.52 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.99 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
3.15 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.7 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
520.7 g | 18.37 oz | 1.15 lbs | TF = 0.09135
Note: For one 16” pizza; nominal thickness factor = 0.09; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

As noted in the above formulation, I used the King Arthur brand of bread flour. As is my usual practice, I sifted it before using. The nominal thickness factor I selected was 0.09 (to yield a finished dough weight of 18.10 ounces), and the bowl residue compensation factor was 1.5%. The water I used was spring water, which was at refrigerator temperature, at 42 degrees F. Even the ADY was cold, right out of the freezer where I store my ADY supply. One of the key techniques to get a long fermentation and long window of usability is to keep everything as cold as possible.

For those who do not have a scale but have a standard set of measuring cups and measuring spoons, the amount of flour specified in the above table, 11.12 ounces, converts to 2 c. + 1/3 c. + 2 T. + 2 ¼ t.  These volume measurements are based on using the “Textbook” method of measurement as defined at Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6576.msg56397.html#msg56397. The 6.9 ounces of water in the above table converts to ½ c. + ¼ c. + 1 T. + 5/8 t. The level of water in the measuring cup(s) should be viewed at eye level with the cup(s) on a flat surface. These conversions were derived by using member November’s Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/.

To prepare the dough, I started by combining the ADY (dry) with the flour. As noted above, even the ADY was cold. I then added the formula water, at 42 degrees F, to the mixer bowl of my standard KitchenAid stand mixer. Next, I added the salt, and stirred to dissolve, about 30 seconds. I then added the oil. With the flat paddle attachment secured, and the mixer at stir speed, I gradually added the flour/ADY mixture to the bowl, a few tablespoons at a time. I did this until the flour/ADY was roughly incorporated with the rest of the ingredients in the bowl and the dough pulled away from the sides of the bowl and collected around the paddle attachment, about a minute. I then replaced the paddle attachment with the C-hook and kneaded the dough mass, at speed 2, for about 6 minutes. The dough was then kneaded and shaped into a round dough ball by hand, about 30 seconds. The finished dough weight was 18.27 ounces, which I trimmed back to 18.10 ounces (based on the nominal thickness factor of 0.09), and the finished dough temperature was 68.7 degrees F. That is lower than the 75-80 degrees F target usually recommended for a home refrigerator application, but the lower finished dough temperature is key to getting a long, cold fermentation that translates to a long window of usability.

The dough was then lightly coated with vegetable oil. In order to monitor the rise of the dough during the fermentation period, I used the “poppy seed trick” as previously described at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6914.0.html. In line with that method, I placed two poppy seeds one inch apart on the middle of the top of the dough ball. The first photo below shows the finished dough, including the two spaced-apart poppy seeds. The finished dough was placed in a tall, clear plastic Food Saver container. For a cover for that container, I used the plastic lid that I normally use with my one-quart Pyrex glass bowl. The lid, with a small opening in the center to allow gases of fermentation to escape while retaining the moisture of condensation, fits perfectly with the Food Saver container. The second photo below shows the dough within that container.

The dough within its container was then immediately placed in the refrigerator. After seven days, I observed that the dough had risen by only 20%, based on the slight increase in spacing between the two poppy seeds. After 11 days, the rise was about 39%; after 12 days, it was about 42%. Concluding that 12 days was perhaps long enough, I decided to use the dough at that point to make pizza. The dough ball was brought out of the refrigerator and put on my counter to warm up. I left the dough within its container so that I wouldn’t disturb the poppy seeds, thereby allowing me to see how much further the dough would rise while at room temperature (about 70 degrees F). After about three hours at room temperature, the dough increased in volume to about 66% (based on the increase in spacing between the two poppy seeds), and then stabilized over the next hour or so while I preheated the pizza stone in my oven. The third photo below shows the dough at this stage. As can be seen in that photo, the dough exhibited some harmless spotting, as is quite common with long, cold-fermented doughs after several days. The spotting was limited to the top of the dough, not the sides or bottom of the dough in contact with the container.

I then shaped and stretched the dough into a 16” skin and placed it onto a 16” pizza screen. The dough was quite extensible, more so than I had expected based on the rise performance of the dough, but I had no difficulty handling the dough. The pizza was dressed in basic pepperoni style, using about 6 ounces of pizza sauce, 10 ounces of diced low-moisture, part-skim mozzarella cheese, and slices of Hormel pepperoni that I had previously “nuked” in my microwave unit to reduce the fat content. I should add at this point that I used the 16” pizza screen since my pizza stone cannot itself accommodate a 16” pizza. So, as is my practice in situations like this, I use a combination of screen and pizza stone to make a pizza that is larger than my pizza stone.

The pizza was baked, on the screen, at the topmost oven rack position, until the rim started to rise and turn a light brown, about 4 minutes. I then shifted the pizza off of the screen (which was then removed from the oven) onto the pizza stone, which had been preheated for about an hour at a temperature of about 525 degrees F. The pizza remained on the stone until the bottom turned brown, about another 2 to 3 minutes. To get a bit more top crust browning, I moved the pizza back to the topmost oven rack position for about another 1-2 minutes. The photos in the next post show the finished pizza.

I thought the pizza turned out quite well. It had good overall crust coloration, the rim was crispy and chewy with good oven spring, and slices were soft and easily foldable in classic NY style. The texture of the crumb was similar to that of an artisan bread, with good pull (like a rubber band) when stretched. There was also a profusion of little blisters in the rim area, which is characteristic of a long fermented dough and something I have experienced many times before in very long fermented doughs. The flavors and aroma of the crust were also reminiscent of those achieved with an artisan bread, no doubt due to the substantial byproducts of fermentation produced over a period of 12 days. What I was especially looking for was whether the crust would be mildly sweet--despite the lack of any added sugar in the dough--which is a characteristic that I observed, and came to like, when I used IDY in prior long fermentation doughs. I did not detect that sweetness. It is possible, however, that using the dough before 12 days may retain enough residual sugar to produce a slight sweetness in the finished crust. In general, I think that a dough with 6-10 days of cold fermentation represents a good target.

As noted above, the objective of the latest experiment was to determine whether the dry ADY method has utility and applicability to the preparation of pizza dough in general. Based on my results with the above experiment, I would say that the answer is clearly yes.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 11:23:18 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #723 on: January 03, 2009, 10:45:38 AM »
And the photos of the finished pizza...


Offline Mignanelli Pizza

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Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza- First attempt
« Reply #724 on: January 11, 2009, 11:49:41 PM »
I took the exact recipe that was posted and the results are below. I substituted ADY for IDY but everything else is copied closely. I used my house oven at 525 w/ a stone vs. my LBE but still pleased with the results. Other than the technical aspect of the pizza, everything was very good. Nice spring, good taste, noticeable air bubbles, and just a nice pie to eat. I have family in town from New Jersey and they truly enjoyed the pizza which I can't say for several other experiments. The best part of all of this, it's possible to produce high quality pizzas with no sourdough starter or high heat (at least this is a first for me). Thanks for the great step-by-step guide.


Offline Mignanelli Pizza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza- First attempt
« Reply #725 on: January 12, 2009, 12:45:50 AM »
The other difference was the size.....I cut the final dough in half and made two pizzas. As I mentioned in the previous post, I'm not there technically.


Offline haybot

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #726 on: February 09, 2009, 02:24:58 PM »
Hey,
i wanted to try the 12" hand kneading recipe for the Lehmann Dough postet by Pete-zaa.
Unfortunately the pizzastone i ordered didn't arive today like i expected it to do.
Now since i prepared the dough yesterday and it was in the fridge for  roughly 28 hours i wasn't sure if the dough would still turn out good if i left it in the fridge for another day so I had to bake the pizza on a baking paper.

It was easy to shape the dough and it rose quite well in the fridge.

What disappointed me was that crust didn't rise to well in the oven. From the pictures on this thread it looks like you get large air bubbles and a thick, light crust. Does using a stone affect the amount the dough rises in the oven?
One thing i also noticed was that my crust looked on the top a little bit like wet paper  and was pretty even while you often get a crust that looks more like a ciabatta bread.

I don't think that its because of the temerature in the oven since it was set to about 500°F.

Is there a way to improve the crust expecially on the top? What setting do you use on your oven(like heat from above/below, do you turn the ventilation on)?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #727 on: February 09, 2009, 03:35:32 PM »
haybot,

I assume from your explanation that you baked your pizza on a sheet of parchment paper or its equivalent directly on an oven rack. If so, that might have been why you did not get as much rise out of the crust as you would have had you baked the pizza directly on a pizza stone that had been preheated to around 500 degrees F for about an hour. I conducted an experiment recently using a modified Lehmann dough and parchment paper on the middle rack of my oven, and the dough did not rise that much either.  A hot stone will usually do a better job with the oven spring.

I am not sure what you mean by your comment that the "crust looked on the top a little bit like wet paper". If you have a photo, or can take one next time if the problem persists, I might be able to offer you some advice on the matter. However, in my oven, which is a standard electric home oven (with no convection feature), I will sometimes move the pizza off of the stone (preheated to around 500 degrees F for about an hour) toward the end of the bake to the topmost oven rack position for a final minute or so to get more top crust browning. On occasion, I will turn the broiler element on for the same purpose. However, I am more likely to do that with a dough that uses a weaker flour (lower protein content), such as an all-purpose flour or an Italian 00 flour. The particular method I use in any given instance is usually based on watching the progress of the pizza as it bakes and then deciding what I need to do, if anything, to get the particular outcome I am looking for.

Peter

Offline haybot

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #728 on: February 22, 2009, 04:19:51 PM »
My pizza stone finally arrived and the results were great. Unfortunately i could only take a picture of the third pie.

The Pizza tasted really well, the only thing i need to work on is the sauce and i think especially the amount of sauce i use.
I think the taste of the sauce was way too strong compared to the rest of the pizza. What i'm also unsure about is how thick the sauce should be. I think the strong flavour comes from the tomatoe paste i add to the sauce.

How wet can the sauce be when used with this dough?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #729 on: February 22, 2009, 05:06:53 PM »
haybot,

Your pizza looks real good. Did you ever figure out what was causing the top of the crust to look like "wet paper"? Or did that problem go away?

With respect to your question on the sauce, if the particular Lehmann dough formulation you used calls for a thickness factor of around 0.10-0.105 (or a dough weight/pizza size that corresponds to that thickness factor), you should be able to use a fairly wet sauce and also a fair number of toppings. However, if you use a much lower thickness factor, say, around 0.06 or less, the risk of the sauce seeping through the thin skin increases and can lead to a couple of potential problems, particularly if there are also a fair amount of cheeses and toppings on the pizza: either the skin sticks to the peel or the crust sticks to the stone during baking. If a metal peel is used to dislodge the pizza from the stone in the latter case, it is quite easy to damage the pizza because of thinness of the crust at the point of sticking. The blade can shear through the pizza at the point of sticking and make a real mess. I suspect that in your case your thickness factor is the normal one used for the basic Lehmann dough formulation and, if so, you shouldn't have the above types of problems and you should be able to use a fair amount of sauce.

Peter


Offline haybot

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #730 on: February 28, 2009, 07:32:51 AM »
I did another Pizza today and it didn't turn out as well as the last one. Since i didn't change anything like the type of flour or anything i came to the conclusion that maybe the dough temperature was causing the bad results (no oven spring).

I had the dough out of the fridge roughly 1 hour before making the pizza. Is it possible that the dough was too cold when it came into the oven that the outer crust was stiff before the rest got warm preventing the dough to rise in the oven? Last time i had the dough out 3 hours before.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #731 on: February 28, 2009, 08:12:14 AM »
II had the dough out of the fridge roughly 1 hour before making the pizza. Is it possible that the dough was too cold when it came into the oven that the outer crust was stiff before the rest got warm preventing the dough to rise in the oven? Last time i had the dough out 3 hours before.

Without a lot more detail on what steps you took to make the dough and bake the pizza, it is hard to say what caused the problems you experienced. However, unless your kitchen was on the cold side, I don't think that the one-hour bench time was responsible for the results you got. You might go back to the three hours of bench time to see if that resolves matters.

Peter

Offline Pizzacrazy7

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #732 on: February 28, 2009, 12:25:37 PM »
I've looked through this topic quite a bit and am just looking for the standard % or formula for the Lehmann's NY.  I see there is variation after variation and I'm just wondering if there is a standard/recent formula/autolyse, etc. to use in bakers %.  Looking back on the first posts from Pete-zza from 5 years ago(2004) and not in bakers %.  I love the second post/pic on this subject of Pete-zza's "And a Lehmann NY slice"(Awesome oven spring).  Looking for that "recipe".  24 hr cold ferment?
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #733 on: February 28, 2009, 02:25:10 PM »
Tony,

The original Lehmann NY style dough formulation came from PMQ at http://www.pmq.com/tt2/recipe/view/id_151/title_New-York-Style-Pizza/. As you can see from that formulation and instructions, there are many possible variations, depending on the type of flour used, the type of yeast used, and the hydration value. Back when I first started playing around with the Lehmann formulation, the various dough calculating tools did not exist and I was still a novice at working with and manipulating baker's percents. All the calculations were done manually with a calculator, and I converted the flour and water weights to volumes in my kitchen using my digital scale. The pizza you liked actually was as result of an error, in which I ended up using a lot more yeast than I was supposed to. I noted the correction, but the pizza with all of that yeast was actually quite good. With all of the fermentation with the excessive amount of yeast and the high hydration (around 65%), the dough was quite extensible, to say the least. Had the dough gone another day or so, I think it would have ended up DOA. Since the purpose of the thread was to convert Tom's dough formulation from a commercial setting to a home setting, I tried to stay true to the basic formulation as much as possible, as Steve had asked me to do when I volunteered to adapt the formulation to a home setting. Even the many later variations maintained the core and basic integrity of the original formulation.

If you'd like, I think I should be able to convert the errant formulation you liked to a modern set of values using one of the dough calculating tools. This can be done for any pizza size.

Peter

EDIT (3/22/13): For the updated link to the PMQ recipe, see http://www.pmq.com/Recipe-Bank/index.php/name/New-York-Style-Pizza/record/57724/
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 10:01:23 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pizzacrazy7

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #734 on: February 28, 2009, 03:03:14 PM »
Peter,

        The "errored" conversion would be great!  I wouldn't consider that an error.  That's one of the best looking slices I've ever laid my eyes on.  I also want to try a standard version of Lehmann's.  In your opinion, should I use the original standard from http://www.pmq.com/tt2/recipe/view/id_151/title_New-York-Style-Pizza/, or do you have a (Pete-zza or ?) modified version that you think is better?  I'll probably be going 12" with KABF. 

Thanks,

Tony    :chef:

Sidenote:  Is it worth adding vital wheat gluten(High gluten flour unheard around these parts) to KABF(which I almost exclusively use)for different pizzas?  Main Advantages of VWG or High Gluten Flour?

EDIT (3/22/13): For the updated link to the PMQ recipe, see http://www.pmq.com/Recipe-Bank/index.php/name/New-York-Style-Pizza/record/57724/
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 10:00:06 AM by Pete-zza »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #735 on: February 28, 2009, 04:26:05 PM »
Tony,

Fittingly, I used the eponymous "Lehmann" dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html to tidy up the dough formulation you requested, for a 12" pizza, as noted below. While I was at it, I added a bowl residue compensation of 1.5% to compensate for minor dough losses during preparation of the dough. That is a nice little feature that we were not able to conveniently use when I first started this thread. The nominal thickness factor is 0.099445, or just about 0.10.

High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (65%):
IDY (1.69491%):
Salt (1.75%):
Oil (1%):
Total (169.44491%):
191 g  |  6.74 oz | 0.42 lbs
124.15 g  |  4.38 oz | 0.27 lbs
3.24 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.07 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
3.34 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.6 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
1.91 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
323.63 g | 11.42 oz | 0.71 lbs | TF = 0.1009367
Note: For 12" pizza; nominal thickness factor = 0.099445; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

If you plan to use KABF in lieu of high-gluten flour, as you indicated, I would use a hydration value of 62%, along with the more conventional Lehmann values for the Lehmann NY style dough formulation, as follows:

King Arthur Bread Flour (100%):
Water (62%):
IDY (0.40%):
Salt (1.75%):
Oil (1%):
Total (165.15%):
197.06 g  |  6.95 oz | 0.43 lbs
122.18 g  |  4.31 oz | 0.27 lbs
0.79 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.26 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
3.45 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
1.97 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.44 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
325.44 g | 11.48 oz | 0.72 lbs | TF = 0.1015
Note: For 12" pizza; nominal thickness factor = 0.10; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

You might note that I specified 0.40% IDY. That is the value I use in the winter. Otherwise, I use 0.25% IDY as my standard value.

If you would like to try supplementing the KABF with vital wheat gluten (VWG) to raise the protein level of the KABF so that the blend is at around 14.2%, which is the protein content of the KASL high-gluten flour (or the All Trumps), the way to do that is to use November's Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/. For example, if you use the Bob's Red Mill VWG with the KABF, you would use 0.1673 ounces of the Bob's Red Mill VWG together with 6.7827 ounces of the KABF (note that 0.1673 oz. + 6.7827 oz. = 6.95 oz. from the above table). The 0.1673 ounces of the VWG converts to 1.90 t., or just under 2 t.

I very frequently supplement the KABF with VWG. Doing so doesn't miraculously turn the KABF into KASL but the added gluten theoretically should give a bit more lift to the dough and it should add a bit more flavor and crust color and maybe a bit more chew. As with most things, there are people who like the combination and others who don't. Given a choice of using KASL or KABF supplemented with VWG, I would go with the KASL. You can read about VWG in the forum's Pizza Glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html#V. However, you should ignore the last sentence because it is not quite correct. The Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator supplants that last sentence.  

Peter

EDIT (3/4/13): Replaced Calculator link with the current link.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 07:36:20 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pizzacrazy7

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #736 on: March 01, 2009, 09:55:48 PM »
Thanks for the calcualtions Peter.  I'm going to give the "Errored Pete-zza does Lehmann NY Style"   ;D  recipe a try this week.  I will add some VWG as KASL is not available at the time.  I'll post the results.

Tony
"You cannot live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." - John Wooden

Offline haybot

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #737 on: March 13, 2009, 03:09:51 PM »
I made another Lehmann Pizza today. I used the 12" hand-kneading recipe again.
Besides using just crushed can tomatoes with a little bit of tomatoe paste and sea salt for the sauce, I changed the position of the stone in the oven. I put it on the highest rack and and turned on the broiler at the end for additional browning.
The only thing i'm still struggeling with is getting the dough out of the plastic container i use (Tupperware containers).
Adding flour doesn't seem to be enough and oil will prevent the dough from sticking to the bottom, but as soon as the dough rises it sticks to the sides.

Anyway the Pizza was great!


Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #738 on: March 13, 2009, 03:20:54 PM »
Haybot,

The last one looks great! Nice work!

« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 03:28:16 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline haybot

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  • Posts: 31
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #739 on: March 25, 2009, 06:59:33 AM »
Just a short question regarding the Lehmann Dough.
I made quite a few Pizzas using the 12" hand  kneading recipe and was wondering wether you strecht the dough or toss it or both.
At least i think ive read about tossing the dogh somwhere in this thread.

The thing is that my dough is easy to stretch but far to soft to pick it up from the counter. (It would probably extend to the floor) Is this normal for the dough or is there a reason for a dough being so soft ?(to less kneading or protein value of the floor etc.)

Greetings from Germany,
haybot