Author Topic: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style  (Read 84944 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #150 on: January 06, 2009, 01:58:50 PM »
John,

What I find interesting and amusing is that everyone says to roll the dough out to 1/16" thickness, yet they end up with different thickness factors. I tend to doubt that anyone actually uses an instrument of any kind to actually measure the thickness of the skins. Also, in a home setting using a rolling pin, there is bound to be some variation in thickness across the entire skin.

Peter


Offline JConk007

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #151 on: January 06, 2009, 04:12:43 PM »
Yes Peter, these thickness posts are baffling me as well ??? Is says 16" pan it says roll 1/16"  and at least 1-2" beyond pan, thread shows in many pictures just how thin it should look, but alas a .12 cracker crust?
Key here is we all keep experimenting, trying new things and sharing like you do , thats the priceless stuff.
I did not heat the dough but gave it at least 3hr room temp 67 degree before rolling after 20 hrs of refridgeration. As mentioned many times dough rolled right out, don't worry about the shape! just keep working it slowly outward, and don't worry about getting off the work surface because it is so thin, if you follow the recipe it should come right up (using the roller for a little help) to place in pan.
John

PS I am sure Red November may have a digital pizza caliper or other measuring device he could share with us.

come to think of it I have one (not digital) in my woodshop, I never thought to use it?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 04:17:12 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #152 on: January 07, 2009, 09:53:12 AM »
John,

There was further clarification by Tom Lehmann on the Lehmann cracker style skin thickness in a recent PMQ Think Tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=42310#42310, as follows:

Most operators today use one (1) dough ball to make one pizza skin without any scrap. When making something like a Chicago style thin, cracker crust, the dough must be processed through a sheeter/roller and trimmed to size, resulting in some scrap dough generation, typically to the tune of about 2-ounces for each dough skin produced.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor


On the above basis, allowing for 2 ounces of scrap, a 12-ounce weight for a 12" skin would translate into a thickness factor of 12/(3.14159 x 6 x 6) = 0.1056075. That is still high in relation to the DKM recipe (as best I can tell) and the values I have used, but it is about the value that member fazzari (John Fazzari) uses for his cracker-style skins in his pizza restaurant and many of the skins that he has made and reported on here on the forum.

Peter

Offline IRHusker

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #153 on: April 08, 2009, 07:56:31 PM »
Thanks Pete as always - you da man!  I've tried so many of your recipes and books, never to be disappoointed!

Offline IRHusker

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #154 on: April 08, 2009, 08:00:22 PM »
I forgot to ask you Pete, do you use a screen/rack like the your 'za is on in the picture to cook it on? 

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #155 on: April 08, 2009, 08:09:12 PM »
I forgot to ask you Pete, do you use a screen/rack like the your 'za is on in the picture to cook it on? 

No, that rack is only for cooling purposes and to keep the bottom of the crust from getting soggy. I usually use a cutter pan to bake the cracker-style pizzas, or else I bake directly on a pizza stone.

Peter

Offline IRHusker

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #156 on: April 08, 2009, 09:13:45 PM »
Thanks!  I don't have a screen or rack to cool, I'll have to invest in both as they are not very expensive. 

Do you think the Caputo flour works well for this crust?  Based on your many recommendations I use it often!  I have a white sauce/seafood pizza I love to especially use it with.  Very thin with great flavor.  I've found the flour on both http://www.fornobravo.com/ and http://www.americasfavoritefood.com

I'm more of a thin crust guy but would like to get better at the Chicago style. Better do more reading there.

Thanks again!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #157 on: April 08, 2009, 09:44:39 PM »
Do you think the Caputo flour works well for this crust? 

I have never tried a Caputo 00 flour for a cracker-style pizza. I believe that it can be made to work for that style pizza but the crust color will perhaps be very light. The weakest flour that I used for the cracker style was a basic all-purpose flour, and I thought that the crust color even for that flour was lighter than I personally preferred. If you decide to give the Caputo flour a try for the cracker style, I hope you will report back on your results.

Peter

Offline IRHusker

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #158 on: April 08, 2009, 10:15:29 PM »
Pete what flour would you better suggest for the cracker style?  Funny, I have never heard of "cracker style" and to be honest using your thin crust recipe to me was cracker crust.  Now seeing your pics I see the difference.  Thin and together(for lack of better term) versus cracker makes sense. What is it about the recipe that you show for cracker vs think(caputo) that gives it color? Is it the veggie oil vs olive oil? 

Very much planning on making this new style(for me) pizza!



Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #159 on: April 08, 2009, 11:54:46 PM »
Pete what flour would you better suggest for the cracker style?  Funny, I have never heard of "cracker style" and to be honest using your thin crust recipe to me was cracker crust.  Now seeing your pics I see the difference.  Thin and together(for lack of better term) versus cracker makes sense. What is it about the recipe that you show for cracker vs think(caputo) that gives it color? Is it the veggie oil vs olive oil? 

When I started this thread, I used DKM's dough recipe at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizzainnstyle.php that was described as "Thin, Crisp & Crackery Pizza". I later discovered that there are several species of cracker-style pizzas. Some have fairly thick crusts that are quite tender and break like a soda cracker whereas others are very thin and very crispy, almost like a potato chip but thicker. There are also versions between those two. I eventually ended up making more of the thin and crispy cracker-style pizzas.

I found that I liked the Harvest King bread flour. At the retail level, that flour has since been replaced by General Mills with the Better for Bread flour. Other members have expressed a preference for high-gluten flour. I did not try that flour myself because I did not have any on hand when I did all of my experiments. DKM says that you can use all-purpose, bread or high-gluten flour with his recipe.

I believe it is the higher protein content of the bread flour and high-gluten flour that is most responsible for the greater degree of crust coloration. I believe you can get more crust color by using a dark form of malt in lieu of table sugar, like barley malt syrup (nondiastatic), but I have not tried that with a cracker-style dough. I don't think that there is enough oil in the dough formulation to be a major contributor to crust coloration even though oil has good heat transfer characteristics.

Peter

Offline katef

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #160 on: April 24, 2009, 05:36:04 PM »
I had tried a cracker crust a few times in the past and the last one I killed myself rolling out and ended up with a crust that wasn't very tasty and very tough.  I just gave up trying for a bit, because I was having good success with other crusts I hadn't really given it much thought.  But you always return to your first love, right?  So I finally bought a food processor to give it another go.  Previously, I didn't recall the advice of the proofing box, or blew it off because I didn't have one, but other interests (sourdough bread) prompted me to secure a proofing box.  So here I go again with a thin and crispy crust.

I used Pete-zza formulation from reply #16, I wanted to read the whole thread before starting, but I just couldn't wait. 

After making the dough, I wrapped it and put it in the proofer, since I had some starter in there too, I didn't raise the temperature as much as Pete recommends, but rather left it around 90F.  And house issues, like an overflowing sink from mystery source kept me from rolling it out in a timely manner and the dough was in the proofer for about 6 hours.  But rolling out the dough was breeze compared to before and I don't feel like I worked the dough to the point that it'll be tough. 

Tonight, the pizza gets made and I'm just so excited, I can't wait to taste it.  I'll definitely post some photos. 


Offline katef

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #161 on: April 24, 2009, 09:47:50 PM »
Well, after all that anticipation, I got a middling response.  Because of past issues with our oven, I baked the pizza on the second to lowest shelf instead of the lowest shelf and the resulting pizza was not crispy or crackery on the bottom.  However, the flavor was excellent.  So next time I'll bake the pizza on the lowest shelf and anticipate a better end result.

I was surprised at the amount of odor (pleasant odor) the dough got in just a few days in the fridge and I did enjoy the easy with which I can put the pizza together.

I'll be making this again next week.

Thanks for all you do, Pete!

Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #162 on: April 23, 2012, 08:55:23 AM »
I am making another attempt at a cracker style pizza.  I wasnít successful before on the dough enhancer thread, so I thought I would give it another shot since I do have a decent cutter pan now.  This is the formulation I used with Ceresota flour.  I didnít think about it when choosing the flour, but think I should have tried Better for Bread flour.   

I mixed the dough in the food processor and it sure was dry.  I gathered it together and formed the best ball I could.  The dough ball was left in my homemade proofing box for a little over two hours.  I rolled out the dough ball and then put it in plastic wrap and a zip-lock bag.  I didnít cut the rolled out dough and will do that at market tomorrow. 

I used Reply 16 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5762.msg49138.html#msg49138 as the guidelines for making this dough. 

This is the formulation I used and also the pictures of the process.  The dough was made early last evening.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #163 on: April 23, 2012, 08:56:51 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #164 on: April 23, 2012, 08:57:47 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #165 on: April 25, 2012, 02:08:27 PM »
This is my half-failed attempt at a cracker style pizza, if it can be said that something is half failed.  :-D The crust was crunchy and I thought it was okay, but it sure wasnít crackery.  Some of my taste testers did like this pie and other ones didnít.  At least this attempt was better than my other attempts.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #166 on: April 25, 2012, 02:09:59 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #167 on: April 25, 2012, 02:11:33 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #168 on: April 25, 2012, 02:12:43 PM »
Norma
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Offline nick57

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #169 on: April 25, 2012, 02:48:17 PM »
Nice looking pie! It looks thin and crispy. On my last pie I double the amount of oil, and that gave me more of a cracker texture. Not sure if it would help on this recipe. Anyway, a tasty  looking pizza mama mia.

Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #170 on: April 25, 2012, 04:00:17 PM »
Nice looking pie! It looks thin and crispy. On my last pie I double the amount of oil, and that gave me more of a cracker texture. Not sure if it would help on this recipe. Anyway, a tasty  looking pizza mama mia.

Nick,

The attempt was thin, but not as crispy as I would have liked.  Maybe I will try out your formulation with more oil.

Norma
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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #171 on: April 25, 2012, 04:11:53 PM »
How about Lard instead of the oil?
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Offline nick57

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #172 on: April 25, 2012, 05:18:30 PM »
From what I've seen on the forum, lard may be the way to go. I was thinking about using Crisco in the future. I was wondering if I use it straight out of the can or heat it up a little so it is in liquid form?

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #173 on: April 25, 2012, 07:27:54 PM »
How about Lard instead of the oil?

From what I've seen on the forum, lard may be the way to go. I was thinking about using Crisco in the future. I was wondering if I use it straight out of the can or heat it up a little so it is in liquid form?

Craig and nick57,

See Peterís post at Reply 1 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17558.msg170313.html#msg170313

I donít  know if that applies to a cracker style dough or not.  I might not have made my TF right as I have done before when trying to make a cracker style pizza.

Norma
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Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #174 on: April 25, 2012, 08:10:07 PM »
How about Lard instead of the oil?

Beware of too much fat (shortening or oil) in this recipe, too, because it can also soften the dough so much that the final crust will not be crispy but rather soft.  It's a fine line with a cracker style crust.  I recommend adjusting in very small increments.

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