Author Topic: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation  (Read 90328 times)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #340 on: March 12, 2013, 11:26:47 PM »
Ok great....that mini(6in) one I did Sat. was actually almost overdone(my fault)and it did not have a gum layer, just as my homemade one on Fri. did not have gum. I just went dumpster diving and found that Sats. mini was dated for Sept.'12.

I'm buying some fresh full size ones tomorrow(sending some off in dry ice for Norma too) and hopefully will get to see what the heck is going on here...going to get some Ultra's also.

Bob
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #341 on: March 12, 2013, 11:30:29 PM »
BTW, Bob, I saw earlier that you were lamenting a lack of sauce (or was that someone else?).  I found that odd, because HRI is among the sauciest pies available in the frozen aisle.  Ultrathin is even saucier, relative to the crust thickness, etc.  That being said, I do sometimes get a drier one or a few dry ones that were made on the same date.  But the really saucy ones are more the norm... in my experience, anyway.  (And we pretty much have had HRI weekly for the past eight years or so, since distribution began down South.  If I don't make pizza, we never order out: we have HRI.)

Cheers,
Garvey
No, I think Peter's nutri. facts are indicating a lesser sauce than I was recommending to Norma....I posted that I'm a sauce freak and the "official for cloning" MMV...
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Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #342 on: March 12, 2013, 11:32:17 PM »
FWIW, I've had great luck cooking at a lower temp for longer (e.g., 410o for 20-25 mins instead of 450o for 12-17 ... or whatever the box says).  Of course, "know thine oven" and all that jazz.. :).

Oh--that's right.  I share the "sauce freak" disease right with ya, man.  :chef:

Cheers,
Garvey

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #343 on: March 12, 2013, 11:39:29 PM »
FWIW, I've had great luck cooking at a lower temp for longer (e.g., 410o for 20-25 mins instead of 450o for 12-17 ... or whatever the box says).  Of course, "know thine oven" and all that jazz.. :).

Oh--that's right.  I share the "sauce freak" disease right with ya, man.  :chef:

Cheers,
Garvey
Yeah...I did that mini @ 425 and thawed as per a rec. I saw somewhere....plain chees and the top tried to get away from me but like I said... no gum...jus no damn layers either though.  :(

On a happier note... I found out the place I'm buying from tomorrow also has Geno"s East frozen DD. Gonna give that a whirl too what the hey. Have you had that Geno's frozen yet Garvey?
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Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #344 on: March 13, 2013, 12:07:19 AM »
I don't think I've had that one.  Uno, perhaps...

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #345 on: March 13, 2013, 09:00:34 AM »
Norma,
 
Your mother's pie crust recipe that you referenced essentially looks like this from a baker's percent standpoint, although the actual baker's percents will depend on how the flour is measured out volumetrically:

All-Purpose Flour (100%):
Water (28.98%):
Salt (1.1%):
Crisco Oil (42.72%):
Total (172.8%):
255.13 g  |  9 oz | 0.56 lbs
73.94 g  |  2.61 oz | 0.16 lbs
2.81 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
108.99 g | 3.84 oz | 0.24 lbs | 8 tbsp | 0.5 cups
440.87 g | 15.55 oz | 0.97 lbs | TF = N/A

If one were to play around with the above hydration and oil amounts, and add some yeast and double the amount of salt, you would essentially have an HRI type of dough. Unfortunately, there is no way of calculating the hydration of the HRI dough used to make their frozen pizzas. In part, I believe that that is because there is an error in the HRI Nutrition Facts. If I am correct on this, it could be that that error was used to do other calculations that are now reflected in the Nutrition Facts.

As you know, until recently, I assumed that HRI cold fermented the dough that it uses for its frozen pizzas. Now, I am not so sure. For example, if you look at the article about the HRI frozen pizza oprations at http://www.bsimagazine.com/Features/Company%20Profiles/US%20Archive/At%20its%20new%20plant%20Home%20Run%20Inn%20makes%20frozen%20pizza%20the%20pizzaria%20way.aspx?p=1&cck=1, you will see the following description of how HRI made its dough at that time (around 1996):

After mixing, the pizza dough is allowed to ferment in tubs containing 40-lb batches. The company likes the unique flavor that natural fermentation produces. Tubs are cleaned and sanitized between batches.

   ďOur dough is given the time to develop flavor naturally,Ē Mr. Perrino said. ďNo additives are used to speed up the process. We follow Ďold world' methods that rely on time and natural fermentation.Ē

   After the proper amount of floor time, the dough is dumped into a Benier bread system that divides and rounds individual dough pieces and puts them through a period of intermediate proofing. From the proofer, the dough balls travel along an overhead delivery conveyor into the pressing room. A chute sends the balls to a shallow bin, and an operator manually places the balls on the conveyor leading to the presses. Company engineers are working on an automatic placement system to be installed later.

   Dough balls travel through one of two hot crust presses. When Home Run Inn first automated its pizza crust process in 1990, it switched from manual stretching to hot press processing and achieved a threefold increase in throughput. The dough is formed in the cavity of the press and enough heat is applied to ďsetĒ the shape. The company anticipates installing a third press within a few months.

   Formed crusts then leave the presses and enter a impingement-style forced-air oven. A short bake stabilizes the crust, which is still warm as it continues into the topping room. Here a series of depositors, custom-configured into three lanes, apply the proper proportions of sauce, cheese, sausage and other condiments. Operators stand alongside the topping lanes to visually inspect each pizza for proper coverage.

   Conveyors carry the pizzas into the oven room where a U.S.D.A.-compliant, all-stainless-steel Stein JSO III Jet Stream oven fully cooks each pizza.

   Pizzas emerge from the oven hot, at temperatures around 165įF (74įC).


As I read the above quoted material, I conclude that the fermentation is an ambient temperature fermentation, not a cold fermentation.

Now, if we fast forward to the latest article we know of that describes what appears to be the current HRI frozen pizza operations, at http://digital.bnpmedia.com/publication/?i=37488&p=14, you will see a discussion at pages 24 and 26 (of the article) that essentially describes the dough management as follows: 1) Make the dough as described at page 26, 2) put the dough into to the dough chunker to form 40-lb blocks, 3) divide the dough into pieces and form them into round balls, 4) manually check the weights of the dough balls, 5) rack the dough balls, and 6) form the dough balls into skins using the dough presses.

Where is the fermentation step(s)? We really don't know. Maybe it is between steps 5 and 6 described above. And I believe docking takes place after step 6.

Now, to answer your specific question about how HRI manages its dough in its pizzerias with the high amounts of yeast as we have been discussing, it is possible that HRI uses less yeast for the dough for its pizzerias than it uses to make its frozen dough. I'm not sure where I read it, but I believe that the dough for the HRI pizzerias is made at a facility that is separate from the frozen pizza facilities (although the frozen pizza facilities make the sauce and processes the cheese and sausage for the entire HRI operations, including the pizzerias). However, even if I am wrong about the amount of yeast used for the dough for the HRI pizzerias, my cold fermentation tests show that even with 2.5% IDY, the dough during cold fermentation does not explode out of its storage container. The dough will rise fairly quickly as it cools down in the refrigerator, and may even double or triple in volume (after about 8 hours in my refrigerator), after about a day of cold fermentation everything comes to a halt, and the dough no longer rises and just sits there. I believe that the high amount of oil is at least partly responsible for the orderly behavior of the dough. The dough is firm to the touch, not soft and billowy that it tempts you to want to punch it down. You can read more about how the dough is handled in HRI's pizzerias in the article excerpted at Reply 6 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6009.msg51590.html#msg51590.

Peter


Norma,

I'm not sure if this is where I first read that the HRI pizzeria and frozen pizza operations are kept separate, but this March 2012 article at 
http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/inc-well/Home-Run-Inns-Joe-Perrino-on-How-to-Break-into-the-Frozen-Foods-Market-140004953.html says:

My plant basically produces all of our raw ingredients for our restaurants out of the same location and then half of the plant is support for restaurants and the other half is for frozen pizza production.

I also found an older article through a library search that I couldn't cite, but when HRI opened up one of its frozen production facilities, the article said:

The restaurant commissary will be relocated to the new production facility. All of the raw products are prepared at the commissary and trucked to the three restaurants for assembly.

I would think that HRI would want to have a separation of its two businesses so that the pizzeria side is not subjected to the same kind of governmental and regulatory scrutiny as the frozen pizza side.

Peter


Peter,

Thank you for doing the calculations to figure out what my motherís pie crust recipe looks like in bakerís percents.  I find that if one were to play around with hydration and oil amount, and add some yeast and double the amount of salt, then that would essentially have an HRI type of pizza dough.  Do you how any idea of percents I should try for my next attempt and also what TF I should try?

I find it interesting that you believe that there is an error in the HRI Nutrition Facts.  Only you would be able to figure that out.

I know you assumed that HRI cold fermented the dough that it used for its frozen pizza operations.  I see why you now concluded that the fermentation is an ambient temperature fermentation, not a cold fermentation.  I can see why there is a question about the fermentation steps.  I find it interesting that you believe docking takes place after step 6.

Thank you for answering my specific question about using how amounts of yeast in HRI dough for its pizzerias.  I can understand that the high amount of oil could be partly responsible for the orderly behavior of the dough.  I also enjoyed hearing about your recent cold fermentation tests showing that even with 2.5% IDY that the dough during cold fermentation does not explode out of its storage container.  I also find that interesting that after about a day the fermentation everything comes to a halt. 

Thanks also for posting that you would think HRI would want to have a separation of its two businesses so that the pizzeria side in not subjected to the same kind of governmental and regulatory scrutiny as the frozen pizza side.  That makes sense to me.  I think I also read something about that on the web, but I didnít save where I read it. 

I donít know if you saw this article from a blogger how HRI was back in 1960.  http://onekentuckywriter.blogspot.com/2008/01/home-run-innand-louie.html  I think the blogger does a good job of explaining how the workers tossed the HRI pizza dough high in the air and what HRI was like back in 1960. 

When you did your experiments for the HRI frozen pizza dough could you also toss the dough?  I find it hard to imagine basically what is a pie crust dough could be tossed, but I havenít tried any experiments to see if that might be able to be done.

Norma
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #346 on: March 13, 2013, 10:24:30 AM »
Garvey,

You raise some good points.

With respect to the HRI Ultra-Thin crust pizzas, I have never read anything about how they are made in HRI's frozen pizza plants. However, while some thin-crust pizzas, like cracker-style crusts, can be laminated (member fazzari of this forum is an expert on this approach), it isn't absolutely necessary to get what appears to be a laminated, flaky crust. However, to get the flaky characteristic in an Ultra-Thin type of product, it definitely helps to have the skin very thin (for example, a thickness factor of around 0.05-0.07) and to pre-bake or par-bake the skin. Docking the skin is also often a good idea. These steps seem consistent and compatible with HRI's methods used in its frozen pizza plants. Like you, I am inclined to believe that the same dough is used for the thin crusted pizzas as the basic ones.

I believe I was the one who commented on the paucity of sauce on the HRI pizzas that I dismembered. However, in actual practice, I am sure that more sauce is used than what I measured. What I measured reflected a loss of water during baking. Typically, a pizza sauce has around 88-92% water. However, not all of the water is lost during baking. Unfortunately, there is no good way to calculate the weight loss of sauce on a pizza, and especially one that has undergone some baking before it is in the hands of the consumer. There are also weight losses for the mozzarella cheese (a low moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese is around 46-48% water) and in the dough. Since it is difficult to assess these losses, the approach I take is to make an estimate of the extent of those losses and factor them into the quantities of ingredients used to make the unbaked clone. For example, for a basic HRI frozen pizza, like a plain cheese pizza, or a pepperoni or sausage pizza, I would use something like 10% as a loss percentage.

I also agree with you on the need to bake the pizza long enough and at the right oven temperature to get the crust to simulate a frozen HRI crust. In my case, by completely defrosting the HRI frozen pizzas to conduct tests on them, I no doubt changed the thermodynamics of the pizzas and also the bake times. However, based on my limited experience with an HRI type of dough, specifically, in a home clone setting, I would suggest that the skin be docked and pre-baked for several minutes, maybe three minutes on a dark anodized perforated disk or cutter pan, at around 475-490 degrees F, before dressing and baking it. In its frozen pizza plants, HRI reportedly uses a 90-second pre-bake. That is for a crust without a carrier. That might work in HRI's conveyor ovens but I do not think that that is long enough in a typical home oven, especially if a carrier is used. Since ovens vary by type and from one brand to another, this is something that will usually require some experimentation to achieve the desired end results. The advantage of the pre-bake or par-bake is that it allows one to use more toppings without turning the pizza crust soft. The impression I have gotten from my reading is that the HRI pizzas from one of its pizzerias have a more tender crust than the frozen ones.

Peter

Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #347 on: March 13, 2013, 10:31:13 AM »
Great stuff, Peter.  Thanks for the details.

BTW, it's funny that HRI calls that product "Ultrathin," because it is actually quite a substantial crust.  It is only "thin" relative to their main product, which is thicker than is commonly understood in the world of Chicago thin.

Cheers,
Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #348 on: March 13, 2013, 11:17:38 AM »
Norma,

Thank you for doing the calculations to figure out what my motherís pie crust recipe looks like in bakerís percents.  I find that if one were to play around with hydration and oil amount, and add some yeast and double the amount of salt, then that would essentially have an HRI type of pizza dough.  Do you how any idea of percents I should try for my next attempt and also what TF I should try?


Do you mean percentages of water and oil to convert your mother's pie crust recipe into something that is like an HRI dough?

I find it interesting that you believe that there is an error in the HRI Nutrition Facts.  Only you would be able to figure that out.


I am sure you will recall how Craig and I were so positive that the Carbohydrate number for Pepe's frozen dough was in error. In HRI's case, I feel just as strongly, maybe even stronger, but for a different item in HRI's Nutrition Facts. Unfortunately, I may never know, or I will have to wait to see if they ever do anything about it on the pizza boxes for their frozen pizzas and on their website. The FDA is pretty good about giving companies a reasonable grace period to use up existing packaging materials.

I know you assumed that HRI cold fermented the dough that it used for its frozen pizza operations.  I see why you now concluded that the fermentation is an ambient temperature fermentation, not a cold fermentation.  I can see why there is a question about the fermentation steps.  I find it interesting that you believe docking takes place after step 6.


I have read that the HRI skins are docked on both sides. And, indeed, when I have examined the HRI crusts for their frozen pizzas, the docking holes are visible in the crusts, both top and bottom. I do not believe that HRI actually docks on both sides but rather docks the skins from the top but with sufficient penetration to have the docking holes show in the bottom of the crust. From page 24 of the article at http://digital.bnpmedia.com/publication/?i=37488&p=14, you can see the dough balls heading toward the hot dough presses. So, the docking must take place after the skins come out of the dough presses. At page 26 of the article, you can actually see the docking holes, with about 1" spacings. If you use the Zoom feature, it looks like the docked skins are emerging from the dough press area.

When you did your experiments for the HRI frozen pizza dough could you also toss the dough?  I find it hard to imagine basically what is a pie crust dough could be tossed, but I havenít tried any experiments to see if that might be able to be done.


I did not try to toss the dough skins. I think a 12" skin should be manageable but I will have to try it sometime. Much has been said by HRI and others that the dough formulation now used is the same as was used back in the 1940s. I have wondered about that. The key thing with an HRI clone dough is to get the hydration and oil quantity in proper balance. By that, I mean that you should be able to get the hand-formed fluted rim to be able to stand up and stay there without falling or drooping too much for at least until you have been able to dress the pizza. The photo that I use as a guide for the fluted rim is the one at Reply 195 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg235707.html#msg235707. But even if there is a little droop, it is easy to reform the rim. It can even be done with a pre-baked skin if the pre-bake time is not too long and has set the skin too much. In HRI's pizzerias, they even let their skins proof for about 10-15 minutes after they come out of the hot dough presses. So, the heat of the presses (for about 10 seconds) does not stop the dough from fermenting. The proof time also helps the skins recover from the degassing of the skins by the application of pressure to the skins by the dough presses. Of course, the latter step is not one that is used at HRI's frozen pizza plants.

I have used a rolling pin to form the skins, much like was done in the early days when HRI used dough sheeters to get a uniform thickness, and quickly, but it is almost as easy to form the skins to the desired size by hand. You should, of course, make the skin a bit larger than the desired size to allow for the formation of the rim. For example, for a 12" skin, you might use 13" and form the rim with one inch of that (1/2" on each side). After baking, you can expect to lose about a half inch on the pizza. All of the frozen HRI pizzas I tested were 11.5", so that is the desired final diameter. The importance of this is because you want the part of the crust inside the rim to be of the right thickness and of the right texture (and, hopefully, flaky). I have found that the skins can be docked either before placing on the carrier (in my case, a dark anodized perforated disk or cutter pan) or while on the carrier, as is apparently done in HRI's pizzerias. I would not dock on a pizza screen.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 11:27:48 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #349 on: March 13, 2013, 02:08:47 PM »
Norma,

Do you mean percentages of water and oil to convert your mother's pie crust recipe into something that is like an HRI dough?

I am sure you will recall how Craig and I were so positive that the Carbohydrate number for Pepe's frozen dough was in error. In HRI's case, I feel just as strongly, maybe even stronger, but for a different item in HRI's Nutrition Facts. Unfortunately, I may never know, or I will have to wait to see if they ever do anything about it on the pizza boxes for their frozen pizzas and on their website. The FDA is pretty good about giving companies a reasonable grace period to use up existing packaging materials.

I have read that the HRI skins are docked on both sides. And, indeed, when I have examined the HRI crusts for their frozen pizzas, the docking holes are visible in the crusts, both top and bottom. I do not believe that HRI actually docks on both sides but rather docks the skins from the top but with sufficient penetration to have the docking holes show in the bottom of the crust. From page 24 of the article at http://digital.bnpmedia.com/publication/?i=37488&p=14, you can see the dough balls heading toward the hot dough presses. So, the docking must take place after the skins come out of the dough presses. At page 26 of the article, you can actually see the docking holes, with about 1" spacings. If you use the Zoom feature, it looks like the docked skins are emerging from the dough press area.

I did not try to toss the dough skins. I think a 12" skin should be manageable but I will have to try it sometime. Much has been said by HRI and others that the dough formulation now used is the same as was used back in the 1940s. I have wondered about that. The key thing with an HRI clone dough is to get the hydration and oil quantity in proper balance. By that, I mean that you should be able to get the hand-formed fluted rim to be able to stand up and stay there without falling or drooping too much for at least until you have been able to dress the pizza. The photo that I use as a guide for the fluted rim is the one at Reply 195 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg235707.html#msg235707. But even if there is a little droop, it is easy to reform the rim. It can even be done with a pre-baked skin if the pre-bake time is not too long and has set the skin too much. In HRI's pizzerias, they even let their skins proof for about 10-15 minutes after they come out of the hot dough presses. So, the heat of the presses (for about 10 seconds) does not stop the dough from fermenting. The proof time also helps the skins recover from the degassing of the skins by the application of pressure to the skins by the dough presses. Of course, the latter step is not one that is used at HRI's frozen pizza plants.

I have used a rolling pin to form the skins, much like was done in the early days when HRI used dough sheeters to get a uniform thickness, and quickly, but it is almost as easy to form the skins to the desired size by hand. You should, of course, make the skin a bit larger than the desired size to allow for the formation of the rim. For example, for a 12" skin, you might use 13" and form the rim with one inch of that (1/2" on each side). After baking, you can expect to lose about a half inch on the pizza. All of the frozen HRI pizzas I tested were 11.5", so that is the desired final diameter. The importance of this is because you want the part of the crust inside the rim to be of the right thickness and of the right texture (and, hopefully, flaky). I have found that the skins can be docked either before placing on the carrier (in my case, a dark anodized perforated disk or cutter pan) or while on the carrier, as is apparently done in HRI's pizzerias. I would not dock on a pizza screen.

Peter


Peter,

Yes, I mean percentages of water and oil to convert my motherís pie crust recipe into something that is like an HRI dough if that is possible, but if it isnít possible that is okay.

I do recall how Craig and you were so positive that the Carbohydrate number for Pepeís frozen dough was in error.  I understand now how you feel just as strongly, or maybe even stronger about a different item in HRIís Nutrition Facts.  I wish you good luck in finding out what you want to know.

Thanks for telling me that you read the HRI skins are docked on both sides, but their specialized equipment probably is doing that in one step.  I didnít realize anyone could use the zoom feature on a photo, but found that interesting.  I see now that the docking holes  after the skins came out of the dough presses. 

I know that HRI and others said the dough formulation now used is the same dough formulation used back in 1940ís, but I also wonder about that.  I understand the key thing would be to get the hydration and oil quantity in proper balance.  I saw that photo that you use as a guide for the fluted rim at Reply 195.  I didnít know that could be done with a pre-baked skin if the pre-bake time is not too long as to set the crust too much.  I do recall though that in HRIís pizzerias they let their skins proof for about 10-15 minutes after they come out of the hot dough presses.  I can understand that the skins then can recover from the degassing of the skins by the application of pressure to the skins by the dough presses.  I recall when I had a hot dough press how my dough balls wanted to contact back and then never really used that hot dough press anymore, but do recall Tom Lehmann posting that usually something has to be added to the dough so the dough balls donít want to contact back, but I could see if AP flour is used and not a lot of mixing time, then the skins wouldnít want to contact back like mine did.  I now wish I still had my hot dough press to play around with.  :-D I also recall when I was trying to work on pre-baking those UltraThin crusts what steps needed to be taken to make sure they were pre-baked right. 

Maybe I will also use a rolling pin in my next attempt to form the skins.  I didnít think about making the skin a bit larger than the desired size to allow for the formation of the rim.  Thanks for reminding me of that.  I will have to pick up my docker at market again.  I did have it home last weekend, but then took it back to market.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #350 on: March 13, 2013, 02:11:41 PM »


BTW, it's funny that HRI calls that product "Ultrathin," because it is actually quite a substantial crust.  It is only "thin" relative to their main product, which is thicker than is commonly understood in the world of Chicago thin.

Cheers,
Garvey

Garvey,

I recall reading somewhere that the HRI crusts were called something like thin/thick or something like that awhile ago, but don't recall where I saw that posted.

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #351 on: March 13, 2013, 02:43:23 PM »
Peter,
Do you think I should or should not use the pie baking technique of "blind baking"(pie weights) when I pre bake my next crust? Thanks.
Bob
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #352 on: March 13, 2013, 02:56:38 PM »
Do you think I should or should not use the pie baking technique of "blind baking"(pie weights) when I pre bake my next crust? Thanks.

Bob,

That's a good question, for which I do not have a good answer. Whenever I have pre-baked or par-baked a crust, for whatever the style of pizza, I would look for the crust to turn a light brown and then remove it from the oven. The time for this to happen could vary from one such crust to another. It perhaps won't hurt to try blind baking but I can't say how that will affect the results. I was trying to emulate what HRI does in its conveyor ovens at its frozen pizza plants but using my home oven.

Peter

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #353 on: March 13, 2013, 03:14:28 PM »
Yes, I mean percentages of water and oil to convert my motherís pie crust recipe into something that is like an HRI dough if that is possible, but if it isnít possible that is okay.

Norma,

You could try hydration in a range of 49-53% and corn oil in the range of 18-20%. Whatever combination you use, you will want to keep the combined percent values of those ingredients at around 72%. If you plan to cold ferment the dough, you could use around 2.5% IDY. That value might also work if you would rather try for an emergency or same-day dough. For salt, I would go with 2%.

If you elect to go with cold fermentation, I perhaps would not go beyond two days. For dough preparation purposes, you might follow the instructions you posted for your mother's pie crust recipe. You might even be able to use the wax paper method for rolling out the dough. However, for a 10" pizza size, if that is what you decide to make, you will have to scale your mother's pie crust recipe back. You might try using a thickness factor of around 0.13 and maybe a bowl residue compensation.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #354 on: March 13, 2013, 05:41:24 PM »
Norma,

You could try hydration in a range of 49-53% and corn oil in the range of 18-20%. Whatever combination you use, you will want to keep the combined percent values of those ingredients at around 72%. If you plan to cold ferment the dough, you could use around 2.5% IDY. That value might also work if you would rather try for an emergency or same-day dough. For salt, I would go with 2%.

If you elect to go with cold fermentation, I perhaps would not go beyond two days. For dough preparation purposes, you might follow the instructions you posted for your mother's pie crust recipe. You might even be able to use the wax paper method for rolling out the dough. However, for a 10" pizza size, if that is what you decide to make, you will have to scale your mother's pie crust recipe back. You might try using a thickness factor of around 0.13 and maybe a bowl residue compensation.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me I could try a hydration in the range of 49-53% and corn oil in the range of 18-20%, but keep the combined percent values of the water and corn oil at about 72%.

I had thought for dough preparation purposes I would try to follow the instructions I posted for my motherís pie crust recipe.  I am not sure I understand if I use a 10Ē pizza size about having to scale back my motherís pie crust recipe.  If I used my motherís pie crust recipe, but changed the hydration percentage and change the corn oil percentage then what size pizza would I be making?  I think you know I would not be good at trying to scale my motherís pie crust recipe back.

Norma
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #355 on: March 13, 2013, 05:53:42 PM »
I had thought for dough preparation purposes I would try to follow the instructions I posted for my motherís pie crust recipe.  I am not sure I understand if I use a 10Ē pizza size about having to scale back my motherís pie crust recipe.  If I used my motherís pie crust recipe, but changed the hydration percentage and change the corn oil percentage then what size pizza would I be making?  I think you know I would not be good at trying to scale my motherís pie crust recipe back.
Norma,

Sure you can do it. You know the size of pizza you want to make (10"), you know the baker's percents for the salt (2%) and IDY (2.5%) and you will pick percents for the water and oil, and you have the thickness factor (0.13). Plug all of those numbers into the expanded dough calculating tool, along with a bowl residue compensation value, and you will have your dough formulation.

If you have a problem, let me know and we will work everything out.

Peter

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #356 on: March 13, 2013, 06:39:52 PM »
Norma,

Sure you can do it. You know the size of pizza you want to make (10"), you know the baker's percents for the salt (2%) and IDY (2.5%) and you will pick percents for the water and oil, and you have the thickness factor (0.13). Plug all of those numbers into the expanded dough calculating tool, along with a bowl residue compensation value, and you will have your dough formulation.

If you have a problem, let me know and we will work everything out.

Peter

Peter,

Lol, yes I know how to do that.  I think I was thinking I needed to do something different than I really needed to do.  I did tell my mother today that I am going to try to make a pizza using her pie crust recipe and she seemed interested in knowing how that turns out.  My mother had to laugh about that.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #357 on: March 13, 2013, 06:58:37 PM »
Peter,

Lol, yes I know how to do that.  I think I was thinking I needed to do something different than I really needed to do.  I did tell my mother today that I am going to try to make a pizza using her pie crust recipe and she seemed interested in knowing how that turns out.  My mother had to laugh about that.

Norma

^^can't wait to see that, that's one of the coolest things i've ever heard!   :chef:

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #358 on: March 13, 2013, 07:01:58 PM »
^^can't wait to see that, that's one of the coolest things i've ever heard!   :chef:

CDNpielover,

It hits my "funny bone" even thinking about using a pie crust recipe to make a pizza dough.   :-D 

I'll see what happens.

Norma
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Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #359 on: March 13, 2013, 07:07:59 PM »
Speaking of "funny bone", the title of this thread is hilarious/ironic.

"Success" and "final formulation"?   Ummm....not so fast!   :-D


 

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