Author Topic: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation  (Read 118158 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #350 on: March 13, 2013, 02:11:41 PM »


BTW, it's funny that HRI calls that product "Ultrathin," because it is actually quite a substantial crust.  It is only "thin" relative to their main product, which is thicker than is commonly understood in the world of Chicago thin.

Cheers,
Garvey

Garvey,

I recall reading somewhere that the HRI crusts were called something like thin/thick or something like that awhile ago, but don't recall where I saw that posted.

Norma


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #351 on: March 13, 2013, 02:43:23 PM »
Peter,
Do you think I should or should not use the pie baking technique of "blind baking"(pie weights) when I pre bake my next crust? Thanks.
Bob
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #352 on: March 13, 2013, 02:56:38 PM »
Do you think I should or should not use the pie baking technique of "blind baking"(pie weights) when I pre bake my next crust? Thanks.

Bob,

That's a good question, for which I do not have a good answer. Whenever I have pre-baked or par-baked a crust, for whatever the style of pizza, I would look for the crust to turn a light brown and then remove it from the oven. The time for this to happen could vary from one such crust to another. It perhaps won't hurt to try blind baking but I can't say how that will affect the results. I was trying to emulate what HRI does in its conveyor ovens at its frozen pizza plants but using my home oven.

Peter

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #353 on: March 13, 2013, 03:14:28 PM »
Yes, I mean percentages of water and oil to convert my motherís pie crust recipe into something that is like an HRI dough if that is possible, but if it isnít possible that is okay.

Norma,

You could try hydration in a range of 49-53% and corn oil in the range of 18-20%. Whatever combination you use, you will want to keep the combined percent values of those ingredients at around 72%. If you plan to cold ferment the dough, you could use around 2.5% IDY. That value might also work if you would rather try for an emergency or same-day dough. For salt, I would go with 2%.

If you elect to go with cold fermentation, I perhaps would not go beyond two days. For dough preparation purposes, you might follow the instructions you posted for your mother's pie crust recipe. You might even be able to use the wax paper method for rolling out the dough. However, for a 10" pizza size, if that is what you decide to make, you will have to scale your mother's pie crust recipe back. You might try using a thickness factor of around 0.13 and maybe a bowl residue compensation.

Peter

Online norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #354 on: March 13, 2013, 05:41:24 PM »
Norma,

You could try hydration in a range of 49-53% and corn oil in the range of 18-20%. Whatever combination you use, you will want to keep the combined percent values of those ingredients at around 72%. If you plan to cold ferment the dough, you could use around 2.5% IDY. That value might also work if you would rather try for an emergency or same-day dough. For salt, I would go with 2%.

If you elect to go with cold fermentation, I perhaps would not go beyond two days. For dough preparation purposes, you might follow the instructions you posted for your mother's pie crust recipe. You might even be able to use the wax paper method for rolling out the dough. However, for a 10" pizza size, if that is what you decide to make, you will have to scale your mother's pie crust recipe back. You might try using a thickness factor of around 0.13 and maybe a bowl residue compensation.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me I could try a hydration in the range of 49-53% and corn oil in the range of 18-20%, but keep the combined percent values of the water and corn oil at about 72%.

I had thought for dough preparation purposes I would try to follow the instructions I posted for my motherís pie crust recipe.  I am not sure I understand if I use a 10Ē pizza size about having to scale back my motherís pie crust recipe.  If I used my motherís pie crust recipe, but changed the hydration percentage and change the corn oil percentage then what size pizza would I be making?  I think you know I would not be good at trying to scale my motherís pie crust recipe back.

Norma

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #355 on: March 13, 2013, 05:53:42 PM »
I had thought for dough preparation purposes I would try to follow the instructions I posted for my motherís pie crust recipe.  I am not sure I understand if I use a 10Ē pizza size about having to scale back my motherís pie crust recipe.  If I used my motherís pie crust recipe, but changed the hydration percentage and change the corn oil percentage then what size pizza would I be making?  I think you know I would not be good at trying to scale my motherís pie crust recipe back.
Norma,

Sure you can do it. You know the size of pizza you want to make (10"), you know the baker's percents for the salt (2%) and IDY (2.5%) and you will pick percents for the water and oil, and you have the thickness factor (0.13). Plug all of those numbers into the expanded dough calculating tool, along with a bowl residue compensation value, and you will have your dough formulation.

If you have a problem, let me know and we will work everything out.

Peter

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #356 on: March 13, 2013, 06:39:52 PM »
Norma,

Sure you can do it. You know the size of pizza you want to make (10"), you know the baker's percents for the salt (2%) and IDY (2.5%) and you will pick percents for the water and oil, and you have the thickness factor (0.13). Plug all of those numbers into the expanded dough calculating tool, along with a bowl residue compensation value, and you will have your dough formulation.

If you have a problem, let me know and we will work everything out.

Peter

Peter,

Lol, yes I know how to do that.  I think I was thinking I needed to do something different than I really needed to do.  I did tell my mother today that I am going to try to make a pizza using her pie crust recipe and she seemed interested in knowing how that turns out.  My mother had to laugh about that.

Norma

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #357 on: March 13, 2013, 06:58:37 PM »
Peter,

Lol, yes I know how to do that.  I think I was thinking I needed to do something different than I really needed to do.  I did tell my mother today that I am going to try to make a pizza using her pie crust recipe and she seemed interested in knowing how that turns out.  My mother had to laugh about that.

Norma

^^can't wait to see that, that's one of the coolest things i've ever heard!   :chef:

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #358 on: March 13, 2013, 07:01:58 PM »
^^can't wait to see that, that's one of the coolest things i've ever heard!   :chef:

CDNpielover,

It hits my "funny bone" even thinking about using a pie crust recipe to make a pizza dough.   :-D 

I'll see what happens.

Norma


Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #359 on: March 13, 2013, 07:07:59 PM »
Speaking of "funny bone", the title of this thread is hilarious/ironic.

"Success" and "final formulation"?   Ummm....not so fast!   :-D

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #360 on: March 13, 2013, 08:15:02 PM »
Speaking of "funny bone", the title of this thread is hilarious/ironic.

"Success" and "final formulation"?   Ummm....not so fast!   :-D

Garvey,

Five years ago, none of us had a good idea as to how to reverse engineer and clone pizzas of third parties. Also, back then, the information wasn't as good as it now is, quantitatively or qualitatively. I went back into my folder on the HRI project and saw that there were Nutrition Facts back in 2008 but I found little analysis or evidence of depth of understanding of that information. The best we were able to do was to conclude that there was a lot of oil in the HRI dough, more than we originally thought. Also, back then, HRI was not selling their frozen pizza into Texas so that I could at least have analyzed them as I did recently. It has taken HRI several years to penetrate Texas. Maybe others closer to the action could have helped more at the time, but these projects tend to be fairly lonely pursuits with few volunteers.

Peter

Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #361 on: March 13, 2013, 08:22:29 PM »
I think we're agreeing here.

Cheers,
Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #362 on: March 14, 2013, 09:21:15 AM »
I decided to mix an attempt at an HRI dough this morning, because I was curious to see what happens.  I used the expanded dough calculation tool to figure out the formulation and used PeterĎs recommended amounts to try for the corn oil and water at Reply 353 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242888.html#msg242888  I used my motherís instructions for mixing her pie crust dough.  The flour, salt, and IDY were sifted in my motherís sifter that she gave me.  The HRI attempted dough mixed well.  The final dough temperature was 74.3 degrees F.  I scaled the dough ball down to 489 grams.  I tasted the attempted HRI dough and it does taste like pie dough to me.  The dough was finished mixing at 8:41 AM. 

These are pictures of the process so far.

I think I am going to try cheese, sauce and pepperoni on this HRI attempt.

I am not sure what temperature to use to try and pre-bake the crust if I want to try something like what HRI does in its dough making facilities.  From the post of Peterís at 348 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242823.html#msg242823  it seems like the yeast is not really killed with using a dough press if the formed dough can be fermented 10-15 minutes more after it comes out of the hot dough presses.

Norma

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #363 on: March 14, 2013, 09:39:49 AM »
Norma,

What size pizza are you planning to make?

Peter

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #364 on: March 14, 2013, 09:57:04 AM »
Norma,

What size pizza are you planning to make?

Peter

Peter,

I entered the desired pizza size at 13" in the expanded dough calculation tool for a 12" pizza.

Norma

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #365 on: March 14, 2013, 10:07:43 AM »
I entered the desired pizza size at 13" in the expanded dough calculation tool for a 12" pizza.
Norma,

That is what I thought you did.

I suggest that you use a total of 15 ounces of dough, or a bit over 425 grams. You will want to stretch or roll the dough out to around 13" and flute the edges to form a rim. At that point, the total diameter is likely to be close to 12". The baked pizza should be close to 11.5".

As for the pre-bake temperature, I would use something around 475 degrees F, and bake the skin until it starts to turn a light brown. If underbaked at this point, the final crust might be too soft; if overbaked, it might be too hard and too dark. These are judgment calls that are necessitated by the fact that not all ovens bake the same.

Peter

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #366 on: March 14, 2013, 10:19:34 AM »
Norma,

That is what I thought you did.

I suggest that you use a total of 15 ounces of dough, or a bit over 425 grams. You will want to stretch or roll the dough out to around 13" and flute the edges to form a rim. At that point, the total diameter is likely to be close to 12". The baked pizza should be close to 11.5".

As for the pre-bake temperature, I would use something around 475 degrees F, and bake the skin until it starts to turn a light brown. If underbaked at this point, the final crust might be too soft; if overbaked, it might be too hard and too dark. These are judgment calls that are necessitated by the fact that not all ovens bake the same.

Peter

Peter,

Also to let you know more, I entered a bowl residue compensation of 3.0%.  I will scale back the dough ball to 15 ounces.  I will stretch, or roll out the dough to around 13Ē and flute the edges to form a rim.

Thanks for telling me to use a temperature of about 475 degrees and bake the skin until it starts to turn a light brown. 

Thanks again for your help!

Norma


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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #367 on: March 14, 2013, 10:48:12 AM »
I took the dough ball out of the plastic container and scaled the dough ball back to 425 grams, or 15 oz. on my scale and gently reballed.  The dough sure looked weird.  :-D Maybe I didnít mix the dough enough, but I didnít want to over mix the dough.

Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #368 on: March 14, 2013, 10:55:43 AM »
I think you did good with "Dough Brain" Norma....I would be hesitant to mix it very much too.  :chef:
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #369 on: March 14, 2013, 10:56:11 AM »
How much oil did you end up using in this dough?

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #370 on: March 14, 2013, 11:25:59 AM »
I think you did good with "Dough Brain" Norma....I would be hesitant to mix it very much too.  :chef:

Bob,

I thought the dough almost looked like a brain too.   :-D  I wondered what might happen if the dough was mixed too much, so that is why I didn't mix a lot.

Norma

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #371 on: March 14, 2013, 11:27:43 AM »
How much oil did you end up using in this dough?

adletson,

I used 57.42 grams of corn oil in the dough. 


Norma

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #372 on: March 14, 2013, 01:56:21 PM »
I had to run a few errands and had saved the leftover part of the dough I had scaled back earlier.  I decided to test the leftover part of the dough to see how it baked and then tasted.  I sure donít know what a real HRI crust tastes like, but I think this crust was very good.  It can be seen there are some flaky areas and the crust did taste somewhat like a pie crust.  I didnít bother to try to figure out how thick I should have rolled the extra dough out.  The dough did ferment a lot since earlier this morning.

Now, the test will be to see what happens with the regular dough ball.

Norma

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #373 on: March 14, 2013, 01:58:53 PM »
Norma, that is looking very promising!  Of course it's hard to tell without seeing and tasting it in person, but it appears as though you've got layers there!!!   :chef:

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #374 on: March 14, 2013, 02:04:58 PM »
Of course it's hard to tell without seeing and tasting it in person, but it appears as though you've got layers there!!!   :chef:

CDNpielover,

It appeared to me that there were layers too.  See how the whole pizza works out. 

Norma