Author Topic: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation  (Read 89734 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #540 on: March 23, 2013, 07:41:26 PM »
This was my next attempt at an HRI pizza tonight.  I used the skin that I had fermented for two days.  It kind of surprised me that the skin didnít rise much at all in the two days it was in the refrigerator.  I weighed the skin before I place it on the wooden peel and it weighed 14.7 ounces.  I had thought it weighed 15 oz. before I placed it in the fridge.

I had a loading error, I guess because I didnít flour my wooden peel enough.  I only dusted my wooden peel lightly with flour.  A little of the cheese and one pepperoni slice fell off when I went to slide the pizza off of the wooden peel.  I did retrieve the pepperoni slice with my tongs from the bottom of my oven and put it back onto the pizza.  Where the cheese melted it left a mess on my pizza stone. 

The pizza was baked at 490 degrees for about 14 minutes.  I did have to turn the hot pizza stone while it was in the oven to get the struck cheese unstuck before I could rotate the pizza.  I thought there might be more layers when the bubbles began to appear at the beginning of the bake.  The pizza weighed 725 grams after the bake.  I used 10 oz. of the Foremost Farms LMPS, 4.5 ounces of Full Red, and 14 slices of Ciao pepperoni.  The pepperoni weighed 1.2 oz.  I also sprinkled a little oregano on the pizza before the bake. 

I thought the HRI attempt was very tasty and it did have good bottom crust browning and also some rim crust browning.  I thought the rim crust had a little bit of chew and also was crunchy, but the crunchiness was very easy to bite.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #541 on: March 23, 2013, 07:44:50 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #542 on: March 23, 2013, 07:47:55 PM »
Norma
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #543 on: March 24, 2013, 09:48:44 AM »
Norma,

You previously indicated that you were using 17% corn oil and that you had reduced the amount of yeast. Can you tell us how much yeast you used and also the hydration value? Since I have been estimating that HRI is using more than 2% dry yeast for the dough for its frozen pizzas, based on analysis of the Nutrition Facts for its basic pizzas, like their cheese and pepperoni pizzas, I wondered how the dough would hold up in the refrigerator at the high yeast levels. I suspect that the skin that you made, even when folded in quarters, had a profile and shape that allowed it to cool down faster than if it had been in the shape of a rounded ball. I now tend to think that you could use the higher quantity of yeast and not have the folded skin change volume in any material way while in the refrigerator. Out of curiosity, did you weigh the skin after it had been formed to see if it was 15 ounces? I know from experience that that is something that can be hard to achieve when, at the same time, you are trying to get a uniformly round skin of the desired diameter.

By and large, I think your weights of the dough ball, cheese, sauce and pepperoni were in line for an HRI clone, even with the slightly underweight dough skin, but from the before and after weights you gave for your pizza, it looks like the weight loss of the pizza as a result of baking was around 16%. That is considerably higher than I saw with the defrosted HRI frozen pizzas I tested, but it might well be that the weight losses are higher when using a freshly made pizza and baking directly on the stone surface of a deck oven. Also, you may have loss some weight during the loading mishap.

I scoured your post looking for the word "flaky" or "flakiness" but did not find either word. Since that has been the subject of much discussion, can we conclude that the crust did not have a flaky character?

Peter

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #544 on: March 24, 2013, 10:05:07 AM »
Norma,

I forgot to mention it in my last post, but if you decide that you would like to try a dough press, I think I found one that might do a good job of imparting a gread deal of pressure per square inch of your dough skin:

http://katedeering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/sumo-wrestler1.jpg


Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #545 on: March 24, 2013, 10:56:48 AM »
Norma,

You previously indicated that you were using 17% corn oil and that you had reduced the amount of yeast. Can you tell us how much yeast you used and also the hydration value? Since I have been estimating that HRI is using more than 2% dry yeast for the dough for its frozen pizzas, based on analysis of the Nutrition Facts for its basic pizzas, like their cheese and pepperoni pizzas, I wondered how the dough would hold up in the refrigerator at the high yeast levels. I suspect that the skin that you made, even when folded in quarters, had a profile and shape that allowed it to cool down faster than if it had been in the shape of a rounded ball. I now tend to think that you could use the higher quantity of yeast and not have the folded skin change volume in any material way while in the refrigerator. Out of curiosity, did you weigh the skin after it had been formed to see if it was 15 ounces? I know from experience that that is something that can be hard to achieve when, at the same time, you are trying to get a uniformly round skin of the desired diameter.

By and large, I think your weights of the dough ball, cheese, sauce and pepperoni were in line for an HRI clone, even with the slightly underweight dough skin, but from the before and after weights you gave for your pizza, it looks like the weight loss of the pizza as a result of baking was around 16%. That is considerably higher than I saw with the defrosted HRI frozen pizzas I tested, but it might well be that the weight losses are higher when using a freshly made pizza and baking directly on the stone surface of a deck oven. Also, you may have loss some weight during the loading mishap.

I scoured your post looking for the word "flaky" or "flakiness" but did not find either word. Since that has been the subject of much discussion, can we conclude that the crust did not have a flaky character?

Peter

Peter,

This is the print out from the expanded dough calculation tool of the formulation I used.  If you recall I did use part of that dough so my great-granddaughter would have some dough to roll.

I think the skin held up good using a IDY amount of 2.0% for a two day cold ferment.  I guess it might be all the corn oil in the dough that keeps it from fermenting more, but really donít know.  I did weigh the dough after I took off what was leftover for my great-granddaugther and that weighed 15 oz., but no I didnít weigh the skin after it was rolled.   

Since you did the calculation I think 16% bake loss weight was a lot too.  I donít know either how a fresh pizza baked on the stone relates to bake loss weights in an HRI clone attempt.  When I rolled out the skin it felt like a normal dough ball and I think I could have stretched it like a normal dough ball into a skin, but since I didnít do that I donít know if that would have been possible.  I know there would be some more bake weight losses from the cheese landing on the stone in the back area of my stone.

The crust did have a flaky character in the rim and bottom crust and I thought that tasted very good.  I tasted two slices after the pizza was cold and the flakiness was still there in the bottom crust and rim.  I am sure not an expert on what a real HRI pizza is like in the flaky crust though, because I never had a real HRI pizza.  I can say though that the pizza made yesterday was more flaky in the crust and rim than the one HRI frozen pizza I baked.  What has me puzzled is the layer thing in the bottom crust.  I sure donít know what bake temperature HRI used years ago, but maybe if I would have used a higher bake temperature, maybe there could have been some layers.

These are also the two pictures of when I ate the slices cold. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #546 on: March 24, 2013, 11:04:08 AM »
Norma,

I forgot to mention it in my last post, but if you decide that you would like to try a dough press, I think I found one that might do a good job of imparting a gread deal of pressure per square inch of your dough skin:  :-D

http://katedeering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/sumo-wrestler1.jpg


Peter


Peter,

Lol, yep I agree that guy sure would be able to do a good job of imparting a great deal of pressure per square inch on my dough skins.

This is what I wished I would have kept though.  That heated dough press in the background at my pizza stand.   ;D

Norma
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #547 on: March 24, 2013, 12:45:40 PM »
I think the skin held up good using a IDY amount of 2.0% for a two day cold ferment.  I guess it might be all the corn oil in the dough that keeps it from fermenting more, but really donít know.  I did weigh the dough after I took off what was leftover for my great-granddaugther and that weighed 15 oz., but no I didnít weigh the skin after it was rolled.   
Norma,

You indicated 2% IDY in the above quoted material but the formulation that you posted from the expanded dough calculating tool shows 1.75%. Also, I note that you dropped the hydration quite a bit. That perhaps slowed the fermentation down also, much as happens with cracker style doughs with low hydration values. I also think that the high oil quantity slowed down the fermentation process, and most likely that would also happen with higher hydration values. The dough should also be firmer to the touch than a dough with much less oil (and even with a higher hydration than you used).

Your dough preparations and management aside, it is quite possible that your most recent dough formulation falls outside the ambit of the HRI dough formulation if the HRI Nutrition Facts for their frozen pizzas is a good measure of their formulation. It is hard to say for sure since, as previously noted, I believe that there is an error in the HRI Nutrition Facts, and the suspect item is involved in some of the calculations required by the FDA.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #548 on: March 24, 2013, 01:28:24 PM »
Norma,

You indicated 2% IDY in the above quoted material but the formulation that you posted from the expanded dough calculating tool shows 1.75%. Also, I note that you dropped the hydration quite a bit. That perhaps slowed the fermentation down also, much as happens with cracker style doughs with low hydration values. I also think that the high oil quantity slowed down the fermentation process, and most likely that would also happen with higher hydration values. The dough should also be firmer to the touch than a dough with much less oil (and even with a higher hydration than you used).

Your dough preparations and management aside, it is quite possible that your most recent dough formulation falls outside the ambit of the HRI dough formulation if the HRI Nutrition Facts for their frozen pizzas is a good measure of their formulation. It is hard to say for sure since, as previously noted, I believe that there is an error in the HRI Nutrition Facts, and the suspect item is involved in some of the calculations required by the FDA.

Peter

Peter,

It was my mistake that I quoted 2% IDY, until I looked at the picture I took of the dough formulation I used.  I did drop the hydration quite a bit.  Thanks for telling me the hydration perhaps slowed the fermentation some too. 

I also thought my most recent dough formulation falls outside the limits of an HRI dough formulation, but since I donít understand the HRI Nutrition Facts for their frozen pizzas I didnĎt know what to try next.  I hope you eventually find out what the error is in the HRI Nutrition Facts. 

Norma
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Offline mrmojo1

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #549 on: March 24, 2013, 03:21:57 PM »
Norma,

I forgot to mention it in my last post, but if you decide that you would like to try a dough press, I think I found one that might do a good job of imparting a gread deal of pressure per square inch of your dough skin:

http://katedeering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/sumo-wrestler1.jpg


Peter


why didn't I think of that!!  thanks for all the info on the dough press and hri info Peter! always appreciated!

norma your latest attempt does indeed again look delicious!  i cant help but go back to that little crust you tested a few days ago, that did seem to have layers!  what was it about that test???  thanks for all that you do!!


Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #550 on: March 24, 2013, 06:08:29 PM »

i cant help but go back to that little crust you tested a few days ago, that did seem to have layers!  what was it about that test???  thanks for all that you do!!



Terry,

I have no idea what is was about that little crust I made at Reply 372 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg243063.html#msg243063 that made it appear to look like it had layers.  I am sure my formulation was way off of a clone HRI crust at that time.  I wasnít using the same formulation as I used in the last attempt. I also think my mixing method was way off in making that dough too.  That is the little pre-baked crust you are talking about isnít it?

I am still trying to figure out what formulation to give a try the next time and if I should just pre-bake the crust.

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #551 on: March 24, 2013, 08:11:10 PM »
Going to give this one a try tonight. Did a 30 min. autolyse with it.

Flour (100%):
Water (45%):
IDY (4%):
Salt (2%):
Corn Oil (24%):
Total (175%):
165.4 g  |  5.83 oz | 0.36 lbs
74.43 g  |  2.63 oz | 0.16 lbs
6.62 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 2.2 tsp | 0.73 tbsp
3.31 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.69 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
39.7 g | 1.4 oz | 0.09 lbs | 8.82 tsp | 2.94 tbsp
289.46 g | 10.21 oz | 0.64 lbs | TF = 0.13

« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 05:19:27 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #552 on: March 24, 2013, 09:38:43 PM »
Bob--did you do the book fold (or whatever that's called)?

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #553 on: March 24, 2013, 09:46:01 PM »
fwiw, when I first heard Peter talking of a dough press used in the manufacturing of HRI pizza crusts....my roots from growing up around Chicago manufacturing plants conjured up visions of some super duty behemoth belching out steam and sparks.  :-\   I now know what one of those 'lil countertop presses are about thanks to the recent links from Peter(and Norma's pic too ;)). Bob feels better now.  :) We don't need no stinking presses!  8)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #554 on: March 24, 2013, 09:47:20 PM »
Bob--did you do the book fold (or whatever that's called)?
I am going to.  ;)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #555 on: March 24, 2013, 09:54:49 PM »
Hey ya'll.....I'm sure it's all been done, but....tonight I tried mixing Classico Heavy Puree, 50/50, with Classico Crushed. Straight mix...no water...this is good stuff and it is wanting me to say it may be a go to for HRI sauce.

I doctored it with about half of Garvey's spice blend but even before doing that I liked it....I liked it real good.  :chef: So I'm looking forward to see how she tastes cooked up on tonight's pizza.
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Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #556 on: March 25, 2013, 11:45:05 AM »
I think I worked up an HRI sauce somewhere.  It was only oregano, pepper, and salt added, IIRC.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #557 on: March 25, 2013, 01:15:33 PM »
I did dried basil,oregano,pepper and ground garlic&onion powder.
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Offline tombiasi

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #558 on: March 25, 2013, 05:28:41 PM »
Flour (100%):
Water (45%):
IDY (4%):
Salt (2%):
Corn Oil (24%):
Total (175%):
165.4 g  |  5.83 oz | 0.36 lbs
74.43 g  |  2.63 oz | 0.16 lbs
6.62 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 2.2 tsp | 0.73 tbsp
3.31 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.69 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
39.7 g | 1.4 oz | 0.09 lbs | 8.82 tsp | 2.94 tbsp
289.46 g | 10.21 oz | 0.64 lbs | TF = 0.13
What do you make with that recipe Bob?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 07:56:57 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #559 on: March 25, 2013, 05:46:35 PM »
What do you make with that recipe Bob?
Believe it or not Tom, the best American style pizza I've ever had.  :-D
It was last night's "pushing the envelope" trial over on the HRI thread. Even though it was a same day dough the 4% idy was too much for even the 24% oil to handle. Pushed the "pie crust" type dough we are playing with into a more lighter an softer sort of very tasty Papa John-ish pizza. Bob was startled!  :o
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