Author Topic: leoparding  (Read 20121 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #60 on: November 05, 2009, 01:10:39 PM »
Isn't autolyse suppose to be just flour and water?

Mo,

Technically, yes. However, the term "autolyse" has also come to mean a rest period during which a slow acting natural preferment is present with the flour and water, or where a commercial yeast is present but the duration of the rest period is less than that required to start yeast fermentation. Anything else is not technically an autolyse and means fermentation is occurring along with acid production, effects of salt on gluten and enzymes (like protease), etc. As one who pays attention to these kinds of things, the term "autolyse" is now misused more than properly used. I'm afraid the cow is out of the barn on this one.

Peter


Infoodel

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #61 on: November 05, 2009, 01:55:11 PM »
From my own experience, I have found no hard evidence or specific correlation between leopard spots and fermentation time other than ensuring the dough is well fermented.

<edit> I realise that the statement might be a little misleading. What I'm trying to say is that fermentation time does not directly correlate, nor is solely responsible for the incidence of leopard spots.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 02:30:18 PM by Infoodel »

Offline scott r

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #62 on: November 05, 2009, 02:28:52 PM »

I had an awesome conversation this week with a master neapolitan pizza maker about leopard spots.   He brought up a great point which is that here in the states most people are making pizzas with as much leoparding as possible.   Apparently in naples they tend to use a dough that is much less fermented than they do here in the states, and therefore the massive leoparding is seen much less frequently.   In his opinion when you get the dough to the point of being so fermented that there is extreme leoparding it is over ripe.

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #63 on: November 05, 2009, 02:31:49 PM »
I had an awesome conversation this week with a master neapolitan pizza maker about leopard spots.   He brought up a great point which is that here in the states most people are making pizzas with as much leoparding as possible.   Apparently in naples they tend to use a dough that is much less fermented than they do here in the states, and therefore the massive leoparding is seen much less frequently.   In his opinion when you get the dough to the point of being so fermented that there is extreme leoparding it is over ripe.
That's a really good point Scott. From the pictures I've seen (and yes that's the closest I've got so far to Naples!) - the leopard spots on the pizzas in Napoli are present but rarely in 'pox-like' (!) proportions.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #64 on: November 05, 2009, 04:12:33 PM »
In his opinion when you get the dough to the point of being so fermented that there is extreme leoparding it is over ripe.

Great info, Scott. I would agree that less is more when it comes to leoparding. I don't aim for a specific amount of leoparding in my pies. But the ones that have the best texture and taste, IMO, have a relatively small amount of leoparding. But I don't think it is completely a matter of over-fermentation. Sometimes the pie is just overcooked.

 

Offline JConk007

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #65 on: November 05, 2009, 11:13:12 PM »
Cool point!
I was sarting to wonder if I was doing something wrong 24 hr 50-60 degree rise then ball all caputo oven t 750-800 and I just was not getting thepeoparding but the aste afte 2 days was fantastic!
John
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Infoodel

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #66 on: November 05, 2009, 11:20:27 PM »
Cool looking results there John. What hydration were you using, if you don't mind my asking?
Cheers,
Toby

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2009, 02:33:24 PM »
Not sure how meaningful they are, but I got some interesting results on the leoparding front. Today I baked pies with dough from this week and last week.

A. 2-day 60F ferment/proof
B. 1-day 75F ferment/proof then stored in refrigerator for a whole week.

Would you predeict that "B" would have more leoparding? No. Best I could observe, all pizzas from both batches exhibited about the same amount of leoparding. So it seems probable that refrigeration arrests the process.

Here is a video of a pie from "B":

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-0LrZO4TJA" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-0LrZO4TJA</a>

Offline Matthew

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2009, 04:17:42 PM »
Not sure how meaningful they are, but I got some interesting results on the leoparding front. Today I baked pies with dough from this week and last week.

A. 2-day 60F ferment/proof
B. 1-day 75F ferment/proof then stored in refrigerator for a whole week.

Would you predeict that "B" would have more leoparding? No. Best I could observe, all pizzas from both batches exhibited about the same amount of leoparding. So it seems probable that refrigeration arrests the process.

Here is a video of a pie from "B":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-0LrZO4TJA


Bill,
I think you broke the world record.....A pizza in 23 seconds flat! ;)  Keep up the good work.

Matt

Offline JConk007

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #69 on: November 08, 2009, 07:17:27 PM »
In fooodel
I have gone up to 68% hydration but really like the 60-62% range
I have Learned here absorbation rate of Caputo is 58%
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com


Infoodel

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #70 on: November 08, 2009, 10:52:44 PM »
In fooodel
I have gone up to 68% hydration but really like the 60-62% range
I have Learned here absorbation rate of Caputo is 58%


Thanks for that info. Like you, I was using a higher hydration for a long while (65%ish) but have taken it down to 60% recently and finding it comfortable there also.

Cheers
Toby

Offline malvanova

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2009, 12:27:07 AM »
finaly leopardizing voila' high heat 800 floor, 950 dome, 60sec. 58% hydration 20hr.bulk, 4hr. ball rest, 7% comoldoli starter
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 01:17:56 AM by malvanova »

Offline malvanova

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2009, 12:42:04 AM »
 some more of the same, had a little hard time forming perhaps a longer ball rest time? :-\
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 01:16:01 AM by malvanova »

Offline malvanova

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2009, 01:01:44 AM »
it dosen't get better than this  :chef: :-\ or does it ?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 01:05:37 AM by malvanova »

Offline andreguidon

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2009, 04:43:56 AM »
nice pies Malvanova !!

i sometimes have a hard time on the first couple of pizzas, then they start getting loose....
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Matthew

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2009, 06:20:42 AM »
it dosen't get better than this  :chef: :-\ or does it ?

Bravo Phil!

Matt

Offline malvanova

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2009, 01:25:19 PM »
thank you all --- next time I will try longer ball rest, I experienced at 65% hydration and loved the extensibility of the dough but did'nt like all that stickyness had to use lots of dusting flour did'nt care for that either, but at 58% hydration was good manageability low dusting good tossing, but a little too rubberbanding, had to bribe it to stay thin, :-D,I think a  5-6 hr in fridge relaxing could be better, there were so good  the one that looks like a haze over it is actualy melted bue cheese OHHH what flavor  :chef:
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 01:27:34 PM by malvanova »

Offline thezaman

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #77 on: November 13, 2009, 02:11:38 PM »
your pizzas look really good! the chunks of cheese is that block mozzarella ? if ,so does it add more flavor than the fresh mozzarella in brine? i am going to have to order a starter those are beautiful crusts!

Offline malvanova

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #78 on: November 19, 2009, 10:48:47 PM »
your pizzas look really good! the chunks of cheese is that block mozzarella ? if ,so does it add more flavor than the fresh mozzarella in brine? i am going to have to order a starter those are beautiful crusts!


 yes that is block Centrella mozz. I dont know about better flavor  I use this mozz. because its easy to keep in blocks it stores well in the fridge.I would like to use fresh mozz.(Bocconcini) in brine but it melts into liquid on pizza too much moisture, one day I will find a way to make my own with low moisture, I tried a couple of time with fresh unpasturized milk, made nice thick curds but could not get a good melt down of curds, made something so hard it would not melt down on the pizza , like a soft hard cheese it was very good tasting, I guess did something wrong  ::) :-D.
must use 00 caputo 100%  58%-60% hydration high heat necessary for leopading need to be quick with the paddle in the oven.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 10:55:11 PM by malvanova »

Offline pizzaboyfan

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #79 on: November 20, 2009, 11:44:22 AM »
My 2 cents
I've tried just about every moz out there, from 7 lb blocks of Grande, to Italian Buffalo.
I agree that the fresh moz in brine is too waterey to use.
My best results in taste,melting (high heat) and general all around winner is the PolyO fresh


 

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