Author Topic: Uncooked dough  (Read 3387 times)

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Offline mrjb

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Uncooked dough
« on: February 12, 2008, 04:58:23 PM »
Hi Guys,
I have recently made been making the bread flour version of "Randys" recipe .

I have found that on occasions that the pizza will come out with raw dough towards the centre. The underside of the pizza is always well cooked and the outside edges perfect.

Ive listed below some basic points to my procedure. I folow the recipe to the letter:

My oven is a fan oven and it cooks at a maximum temp of 250 celsius.

I hand stretch half the amount of dough to 12 - 14 inches.

I cook the pizza on an circular tray which has holes in similair to a pizza screen. It is aluminium and silver in colour.

The pizza will come out completely cooked through if i leave it in the oven slightly longer so the edges are starting to burn in places.

I have done a fair amount of searching of the forum, and from what i can conclude this could be due to the hydration level, the temperature of my oven or the fact that my pizza tray is unsuitable and not transmitting heat effectively.

Any ideas would be appreciated.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2008, 05:55:46 PM »
mrjb,

There are many versions of Randy's American style recipe on the forum so it might help to know exactly which one you are using. However, if I had to guess I would say that it is the pan that you are using. If it is aluminum and bright, then it quite likely reflecting too much heat rather than absorbing it. You really should use a pizza screen if you can locate one or else bake directly on a pizza stone or use a perforated dark pan (preferably one with a baked-in finish rather than a coated one). Your oven temperature may be a bit on the low side (482 degrees F), but I don't think that that is the cause, at least not alone. If you are using too much dough for the size of pizza, that can also lead to the problem you mentioned. If you can tell us which of Randy's recipes you are using, I may be able to tell you if your weight of dough is out of line for the size of pizza you are making.

Peter

Offline scott r

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2008, 06:16:54 PM »
You could also try using less sugar so the pizza can cook longer before the bottom browns.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2008, 06:49:27 PM »
You could also try using less sugar so the pizza can cook longer before the bottom browns.


That's a good point. Most of Randy's American style dough recipes call for fairly high percents of sugar (usually raw sugar) and honey and, in most cases, he recommends that one use a screen rather than a stone. However, he has indicated that it is proper to use a stone, as he does here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4284.msg35778.html#msg35778 (Reply 2). That post was in response to a post I entered just before Randy's, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4284.msg35774.html#msg35774 (Reply 1). Professionals who bake directly on a stone tend to use little or no sugar (usually less than 2%), or else they use screens under the baking pizzas so that they don't end up with burnt bottom crusts.

Peter

Offline mrjb

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2008, 04:56:23 PM »
Sorry for the delayed reply, im in the Uk and have to work fairly long hours  :(

I used the bread flour version of randys recipe. Unfortunately i cannot post links as i am a new member.

The recipe was in post 19 of " www pizzamaking com\forum\index.php\topic,1698.0.html" (I know this url has spaces but i need to get it past the filter)

When i made the pizza i didnt weigh the dough ball  in its final state. I divided the finished dough into two halves visually and seperated.

Il try and get hold of a pizza screen but there a fairly rare item over here so i will probably have to mail orer it.

Thanks for the replies Im hoping to have another go this weekend

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2008, 07:08:59 PM »
mrjb,

The link to the recipe you used is this one: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1698.msg15290.html#msg15290.

The recipe you used makes around 28 ounces of dough, or two 14-ounce dough balls for two pizzas. If you used the dough balls to make 12” pizzas, they would have been medium-thickness pizzas. If you used the dough balls to make 14” pizzas, they would have been thin pizzas. Either way, you should have been OK. I think that it was perhaps the bright aluminum perforated pan that was the main problem, even with the slightly lower oven temperature.

FYI, the latest posting of Randy’s recipe is at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5721.msg48500.html#msg48500.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 02:14:13 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline mrjb

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 08:01:52 AM »
Hi Pete,
thanks for your reply. Il try cooking without the bright aluminium pan.

I did see the latest version of randys recipe that you posted, but it uses high gluten flour. I havent got any idea of brands of hg flour  and I dont think any are easily available to the public in the uk, hence i went for the recipe using bread flour.

Thanks

Matt

Offline mrjb

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2008, 08:46:53 AM »
Hi pete,
   this is the flour brand which is most easily obtainable. www allinsonflour co uk/rootpopups/p_flours_bread_swf.cfm
(obviously youl have to add the "."''s in the url

Would you class the strong or very strong bread flours as high gluten comparable to the the one randy quotes in his recipe?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2008, 09:38:54 AM »
Matt,

This is the link to the flours sold by Allinson: http://www.allinsonflour.com/products.cfm. Once you get to five posts, you should be able to post links of your own.

Of the flours shown and described in the popups at the Allinson website, the best flour to use for Randy's recipe, and especially the one calling for high-gluten flour, is the Allinson Bakers' Grade Very Strong White Bread Flour. That flour has a protein content of 13.9%, which is very good and compares favorably from a protein content standpoint with high-gluten flours in the U.S., which are typically around 14-14.2%. The other Allinson flours are 11.5% and below, which are more like a high quality all-purpose flour in the U.S. You can use the lower protein Allinson flours with Randy's recipe but you will want to lower the hydration percent by a couple of points to be more in line with the absorption characteristics of those flours. One of the best versions of Randy's recipe that I made was a modified "thin" version using all-purpose flour.

Keep us posted of your progress.

Peter

Offline mrjb

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2008, 04:50:36 AM »
Hi Pete just out of interest (if you have tried it), using randys revised recipe you posted earlier how thick approximately should the dough at the centre be and towards the edge?


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2008, 08:10:40 AM »
Hi Pete just out of interest (if you have tried it), using randys revised recipe you posted earlier how thick approximately should the dough at the centre be and towards the edge?


Matt,

If you go to http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1707.msg15310.html#msg15310, you will see a "medium" 14" version of Randy's original recipe that I made where I posted photos of the pizza. After that, I started making somewhat thinner versions of Randy's recipe, in other sizes, which were also reported on in the same thread. However, since Randy uses honey in most of his dough recipes, if you do an Advanced forum search using the terms "honey" and "Randy" (without the quotes), you should be able to find other posts for Randy's American style (and other styles) with photos.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 08:52:53 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline mrjb

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2008, 06:44:24 AM »
Pete, one other question. Randys recipe specified the bottom of the oven at 500f. As my oven only goes to 480f should i use the top. I tried using the middle of the oven and this was when the dough was slightly raw under the topping in the middle. When using the top shelf it came out a lot better.

Would it be better to cook at the bootm of the oven where the heat may be less severe so its a more progressive cooking, or shall i stick to the bottom of the oven. Bearing in mind i want to ake the pizzas slightly smaller and therefore thicker. My oven is a fan oven so theoreticlayy their shouldnt be any hot spots but the top is obviously hotter. Im not sure how common fan ovens are in the states now.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2008, 09:36:45 AM »
Matt,

It's possible that your oven is what we refer to in the U.S. as a convection oven. If so, I have had very little experience baking pizzas in such an oven. However, other members have such experience, which you may be able to read about if you do a forum search on convection ovens.

Based on what you have said so far, I would be inclined to bake Randy's American style pizzas on the lowest oven rack position but be prepared to move the pizza to a higher oven position (I use the uppermost oven rack position) when the bottom of the pizza starts to brown, and allow the pizza to finish baking at the higher position. Since your maximum oven temperature is lower that what Randy specifies, the pizza will bake more slowly. Usually, this leads to a drier pizza crust with a more chewy characteristic. If you experience excessive bottom browning using the lower temperature and longer bake time along with a center that still is not fully baked, one possible way to counteract that effect is to lower the amount of sugar and honey in a future effort, so that the pizza has enough time to completely bake before the bottom crust starts to brown too much. Since the sugar and honey total close to ten percent (by weight of flour), you will perhaps want to cut back on those ingredients by at least half as a start. You didn't say what size of pizza you want to make, or a thickness that I might understand on a relative basis, so you may have to do some experimentation on both of those factors. However, if you make the pizzas too small and too thick, there may not be enough time to bake the pizzas sufficiently before the bottom of the crust starts to char.

Ultimately, you will want to marry whichever Randy American style recipe you elect to use with your particular oven and a particular bake protocol (oven temperature, bake time, rack positioning, and type of pan, screen, etc., used to bake the pizza). Often it takes a fair amount of experimentation and tradeoffs to achieve this objective. In so doing, you shouldn't rule out the possibility of changing the recipe. That can be done quite easily if Randy's original recipe is the one you decide to use.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 09:57:56 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline mrjb

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2008, 01:46:52 PM »

A bit of a delay in replying, lots on unfotunately. I think im getting close now and the cooked dough is getting better.

I wondered if someone could tell me how much (in grams) does a packet of SAF IDY contain as it is specified in Randys recipe in some places. I think as a whole sachet. Im using a british equivalent.

Also my cooked dough come out quite dense and compact, with few air pockets. What causes this?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2008, 02:38:06 PM »
mrjb,

A packet of SAF IDY weighs 7 grams (0.25 oz.).

Without knowing exactly how you made and baked your pizza, it is difficult to diagnose why your dough did not bake up with an open and airy texture. However, you may want to take a look at some possible causes as listed in this post by Tom Lehmann at the PMQ Think Tank forum: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=776#776.

Peter

Offline mrjb

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2008, 05:59:15 PM »
Hi Peter,
thanks for the prompt reply, I will take a look at the link. I have made my pizzas exactly as specified in randys recipe. I have followed these to the letter. I hand stretch the dough before cooking. The only variable which I can think of that isnt as randy has specified is the temperature of my oven which Ive mentioned above.

Thanks

Matt

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2008, 06:33:09 PM »
Matt,

Did you use a pizza screen or the perforated pan that you previously mentioned?

Peter

Offline mrjb

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2008, 11:14:36 AM »
Hi Peter
Ive actually been using greaseproof paper, and placing the pizza directly on the rack for maximum heat exposure. Which seems to help the raw dough problem.

But am now getting quite a dense, bread like base.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Uncooked dough
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2008, 01:01:28 PM »
Matt,

Can you post a photo of a slice in cross section? Unless it is your oven, if you followed Randy's recipe to the letter, you should have gotten good results.

Peter


 

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