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[scott r]

November, thanks for keeping us posted on this recipe.  I am having fun seeing it evolve and have it on my list of things to try.  Beautiful crumb shots!

[November]

Thanks, Scott.  These are for you.

EDIT: I might as well throw in a whole slice while I'm at it.

[Pizza_Not_War]

Those slices look good enough to eat!

I have read the Ultragrain website trying to figure out how that product compares with KA White Whole Wheat. Can you shed some light on the subject?

White Whole Wheat Flour

Milled from white whole wheat, rather than red, unbleached King Arthur White Whole Wheat Flour has all the fiber and nutrition of traditional whole wheat, with milder flavor and lighter color. Thus, white whole wheat is a great way to add whole grains to your family's diet. Start by replacing 1/3 of the all-purpose flour in your favorite recipe with white whole wheat flour; gradually increase the percentage of whole wheat until your baked good's flavor and texture are just the way you like them. We find that in cookies, muffins, pancakes and quick breads, using white whole wheat flour in place of the entire amount of all-purpose flour yields a baked treat that's just as tasty as the original, with the benefit of increased fiber, vitamins and minerals.

What I want to do is substitute it for the Ultragrain. I have used the KA WWW in place of White All purpose for pie crusts and they came out as good if not better, of course all that butter can cover many errors!


Thanks

PNW

[November]

Those slices look good enough to eat!

You may find this hard to believe, but eating the pizza was the goal.

I have read the Ultragrain website trying to figure out how that product compares with KA White Whole Wheat. Can you shed some light on the subject?

I do not work for ConAgra so I do not have any inside knowledge of their process.  You and I have access to the same information.  I understand it to be a whole grain flour that has been milled differently than standard whole grain flours.

[November]

I'm going to go ahead and pre-post the dough formula I will be using in the next Eagle Mills batch.  When I find a flour, combination of ingredients, or dough making process I like, I once every so often deal with proportions that are easy for someone using volume measurements to follow.  The ingredients are also very easy to find in this case.  The following formula is optimized for both baker's percentages and volume measured quantities given a batch size for two 14" pizzas:

100	4 + 3/4 cups	Eagle Mills All-Purpose flour
66.8	1 + 1/3 + 1/4 cups	water
1.8	1 tbs	kosher salt
1.5	2 tsp	cane sugar
1.2	1 + 1/2 tsp	soybean oil
0.6	1 tsp	ADY

The fermentation schedule is the same as last posted.

- red.november

[Pete-zza]

100	4 + 3/4 cups	Eagle Mills All-Purpose flour
66.8	1 + 1/3 + 1/4 cups	water

November,

Do you have a recommended way for measuring out the flour and water by volume?

Peter

[November]

Do you have a recommended way for measuring out the flour and water by volume?

Same as usual: Stir, scoop, and level for the flour; and observe the bottom of the meniscus for measuring water in a glass measuring cup or just use individual (e.g. plastic, metal, etc.) measuring cups.

[November]

As previously noted, this formula is optimized for volume measurements and common ingredients.  If following the volumetric amounts listed, this is for making two (2) 14" pizzas.  The flavor was great, and it was very crispy on the surface.  If I had to change anything it would be to underknead it.  With that much protein, and with that much preferment time and yeast, it takes far less kneading than usual.  I think this particular fermentation schedule works best if 50% of the flour is a bread flour or a flour with a lower amount of protein.

Dough Formula
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6290.msg55090.html#msg55090

Fermentation Schedule
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6290.msg55074.html#msg55074
[Note: Half of the flour was used in the preferment.]

(The toppings were turkey pepperoni and pineapple.)

- red.november

[pizzoid]

For anyone who has been looking, my local Shaw's in SE Massachusetts appears to have just put the Eagle Mills 30/70 mix on the shelves this week.

- pizzoid

[November]

I wasn't planning on reporting on another 50/50 blend, but I have changed the formula a bit, and the results have been consistently good.  The slight change-up in ingredient percentages was in order to give the crust a better balance in sweetness.  For fun I started with getting the various sugars (sucrose, glucose, fructose, and lactose/maltose) closer together in quantity.  I also used 40% potassium chloride for the salt because of the recent discussion on the subject of this salt.

 100   50% Eagle Mills All-Purpose, 50% King Arthur Bread
65.0   water
2.00   honey
1.75   60% kosher salt, 40% potassium chloride
1.50   malted milk powder
1.25   soybean oil
1.00   turbinado sugar
0.30   ADY

- red.november

[November]

 100   88% Eagle Mills All-Purpose flour
     :   8% Bob's Red Mill Brown Rice flour
     :   4% Arrowhead Mills Soy flour
66.9   water
2.00   turbinado sugar
1.82   kosher salt
0.30   ADY

[2stone]

November,

Beautiful pies.....stunning ......did they taste as good as they look?

willard

[November]

Willard,

Thank you.  [I just extracted a leftover slice from the refrigerator to consume as I compose this.]  The crust was very good.  I used the brown rice flour and soy flour to "scrub" the whole-wheat-grainy flavor and to balance out a few of other characteristics.  For instance, rather than adding oil in this formula, I relied on the lecithin and fat from the soy flour to achieve the texture I wanted.  Also while not having as much gluten, making the dough easier to work with for a dough containing whole grain, the overall amount of protein was raised a bit with the soy flour, contributing to good browning.  The gluten-containing wheat source of protein came to around 11.7%, while the overall protein content was about 13.7%.  Those percentages were intentionally meant to surround the 12.7% of King Arthur's bread flour.

- red.november

[Pete-zza]

Papa John's recently introduced a new whole-wheat pizza in all of its stores. According to this website, http://www.kinyradio.com/healthman.html, one of the crust ingredients is Ultragrain. The ingredients list appears to have been garbled (it looks like they put the pizza sauce in the middle of the crust ingredients), but I believe that the proper listing for the new whole-wheat crust is as follows:

Ultragrain Hard White Wheat Flour, water, coarse whole-wheat flour, sugar, soybean oil, salt, wheat gluten, vanilla extract, baker's yeast.

For further confirmation, see also http://www.vrg.org/vrgnews/2008sep.htm and http://www.kval.com/news/health/19402444.html.

Peter

[November]

A different formula using VWG and raw agave nectar:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6747.msg58166.html#msg58166

[November]

With this batch I attempted to diversify this dough's portfolio.  Although this post could just as easily reside in the "Other Types" board, the deal maker was the Eagle Mills All-Purpose flour with Ultragrain.  With a single batch I made naan, parmesan cheese sticks, cinnamon rolls, and a soft pretzel.  The naan was okay.  The parmesan cheese sticks were good.  The cinnamon rolls were really good.  The soft pretzel was the best soft pretzel I have ever eaten in my life.  I have had numerous soft pretzels in my day, including those served by street venders in New York and Philadelphia as well as from skating rinks and sports stadiums from my youth, but I really do think there was something special going on here.  I can't adequately describe just how happy I was eating this pretzel.  If I hadn't already dumped my alkaline water, I would have discarded any notion of making naan, sticks, or rolls with the remaining dough.  For a moment I even considered never making pizza again and just making pretzels henceforth.  It was just a moment though.  (It must have been the alkalinity messing with my mind.)  I was too anxious to sample the goods to stop and take pictures, but here's the schedule and formula:

4.0 hours @ 86°F (preferment)
1.5 hours @ 86°F (bulk)
1.0 hours @ 72°F (divided)
0.5 hours @ 72°F (shaped)

100.0   : 48.7% Eagle Mills All-Purpose
... ...   : 48.7% King Arthur Bread
... ...   : 2.6% Hodgson Mill VWG
62.00   water
03.50   raw agave nectar (2.5 dry)
01.75   sea salt
01.00   malted milk
01.00   rice bran oil
00.33   ADY

The formed pretzel was boiled for about 45 seconds in alkaline water (95% water, 5% sodium bicarbonate), coarse sea salt was sprinkled atop, and finally baked directly on the rack in a 600°F oven for just under 6 minutes.

The Ultragrain based flour really added just the right flavor and texture to make the pretzel stand out.  I could detect a small symphony playing in the background with the nectar and malted milk, but ultimately I think it was how the flour boiled and baked that made the biggest difference.

- red.november

[Pizza_Not_War]

red.november,

Pretzels sound great. Can't wait to try them.

I have been unable to locate Ultragrain locally. Where are you buying it?

Also, what kind of indoor oven do you use that is giving you 600 degrees?

TIA


PNW

[November]

I have been unable to locate Ultragrain locally. Where are you buying it?

The flour I buy is Eagle Mills All-Purpose.  I can get it ay any supermarket in town.  I normally shop at Publix as they have a large organic selection and they're just two blocks away.

Also, what kind of indoor oven do you use that is giving you 600 degrees?

Mine.    It actually goes higher than 600°F, but the insulation around the oven isn't meant to take on more than around 525°F, so I try not to push it too much.  As it is, the surrounding cabinets approach 200°F when the oven is on at 600°F.  And no, it is not a modified self-cleaning oven, nor is it an oven that can be purchased anymore.  It was originally manufactured by General Electric.

- red.november

[Pizza_Not_War]

The flour I buy is Eagle Mills All-Purpose.  I can get it ay any supermarket in town.  I normally shop at Publix as they have a large organic selection and they're just two blocks away.

I received a reply from Con Agra today - I consider it to be "a hoot": As if I did not already attempt that! Duh!!
Anyway for anyone else trying to find the product, here it is.

Thank you for your inquiry.  We are always pleased to hear from our consumers but are sorry to learn that you have experienced difficulty locating our Eagle Mills® All-Purpose Unbleached Flour.

In the future you may want to use our online product locator to find ConAgra Foods products. You can access it at:
www.conagrafoods.com/consumer/storelocator/search.jsp?ftr=true. However, the product you are looking for is not on this product locator.  You may find the Eagle Mills® All-Purpose Unbleached Flour at the following stores around the country (you might also try asking your local grocer to special order it for you):

Eagle Mills Flour - Availability

Hy-Vee
Super Valu Northern Region
Meijers
Associated Wholesale Grocers
Albertson's
Winn Dixie   Are these guys still in business?
Publix
Byerly's
Lunds
Coburns
Cubs
Jewel
Dallas
Schnucks
Sentry
Dierbergs
Acme
United Supermarkets
Price Choppers

We appreciate the time you have taken to contact us and your interest in our products.  We hope this information is helpful in selecting our fine products in the future.

[November]

Albertson's
Winn Dixie   Are these guys still in business?
Publix

The three quoted above are the main stores around here where I live.