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[BTB]

38 hours in the refrigerator is fine.  Many would say that's preferable.  I've only done that several times and hadn't noticed any obvious improvement, but it certainly didn't hurt.  Once I did a 4 or 5 day refrigerated dough, but that didn't turn out well.             --BTB

[JConk007]

BTB,
 He has 14 hrs, Fri. night 7 pm to Sat. noon Lunch, not the 38 hrs.? you mention. I think he could leave it out until bedtime  3-4 hrs and take it out around 9-10 am another 2-3 room rise. Longer warmer rise time, instead of all fridge will help fermentation take place. Do I have this right? Either way Marley with all the oils and stuff I do not feel it will make a measureable difference in the taste of your finished product. I would be willing to bet your guests will not know if it was 8hrs or 40 hr fermentation. I  a lot of doughs are made in less than 14 hrs.
Try it then next time do like 35 hours and see if your taste buds can tell  the difference
John

[MarleyEds]

He has 14 hrs, Fri. night 7 pm to Sat. noon Lunch, not the 38 hrs.? you mention.

I had posted a follow-up asking if I could make the dough tonight and give it 38 hours in the fridge.   

I think I will make the dough tonight so I can hit Cheeseburger in Paradise Fri night and try to shake these Chicago weather blues!!

[MarleyEds]

I tried this recipe again, but with a 25% semlina mixture - and both my wife and I liked it best of the ones I've made to date.  I also made a corn flour mix pie as well - that story, as well as some other notes about this pizza, are in the Deep Dish with Semolina and Corn Flour post.

The family cut it up before I was able to take pictures of the pie in tact   

[Lou Dog]

First off, kudos to BTB and loowaters for perfecting this outstanding, spot-on recipe.  The addition of the semolina really does make a difference.  I just used a 1/2 cup for the 14" recipe, but I may up it to a whole cup next time.  Also, I added a little melted butter on top of the crust prior to cheesing it.  Adds a nice golden browness.  I'd love to try a version of Lou Malnati's "The Lou" pizza with spinach, mushrooms, sliced tomatoes & cheddar.  Any attempts yet by anyone?  Here's the sole pic I took:

[JConk007]

Lou Dog ,
Really nice! The boys will be proud! I tried this and loved it too, waiting to go for it again. I too may up the anty on the cornmeal next time.
GREAT WORK!
John

[jimmy33]

BTB or Anyone else that can help!!!
     Can i use a combination of olive oil and butter instead of corn oil?  If I use more oil or butter than you recommend what does that do to the dough? Can I use a bread maker to make the dough?

[BTB]

Can I use a combination of olive oil and butter instead of corn oil?  I don't see why not, but I've never tried it as I prefer either corn oil or vegetable oil. There's only one way to tell .  .  .  experiment. Suggest using regular olive oil as opposed to the virgin variety as it imparts too much of an olive flavor, I think.  Also be cautious using too much butter and remember that since butter is approx. 16% water (I think I read that here somewhere) to cut back a little on the amount of water you use.  I've also learned to melt and cool the butter before adding it into the dough mixture, rather than churning in softened butter like I used to do.  (Churning in softened butter has a tendency to lead to overworking the dough, which is inadvisable.) 

If I use more oil or butter than you recommend what does that do to the dough?  Not sure on how to answer that.  This can become a fairly oily dough, which deep dish pizza often is, so just be prepared to deal with a very oily dough.  I just made a deep dish dough ball a few hours ago and added about a teaspoon and a half of melted and cooled butter along with 4% olive oil and 18% vegetable oil and it was a very oily dough ball, so I just kept adding flour a little more at a time until it formed a nice drier (a little more so) dough ball.  It rose nicely after 2 hours and I punched it down and looks like it will make for a really nice pizza.  While I like a little butter added to the mix, I don't like the taste of the  dough with too much butter.  But one has to try and compare to see for themselves.

Can I use a bread maker to make the dough?  I know many on this site do so, but I am not a big advocate of using the bread machine.  For one thing, you are likely to way overwork the dough resulting in finished pizza dough that is much too bread-like and not the biscuit-like texture that classic deep dish style is.  Kneading the dough for a very short period of time (est. 1 to 2 minutes) is preferred, as many have given testament to. 

You also asked about Malnati's.  Do not use corn flour, as they do not, but they do use a lot of corn oil in their dough, however     --BTB.

[koloa101]

hi,
can i substitute the ADY with IDY and use the same percentage? i plan on trying this recipe this weekend.

thank you!

[JConk007]

Koloa,
I think it takes less IDY, there are conversion tables somwhere for that or use the Dough caculator tool and check off ADY complete the formula then change that to IDY should change amounts for you? I am also having another go of it this weekend adding a bit more semolina this time. The corn oil is key also.  Are you doing sausage? spinach? pepperoni? and Remeber its ok if the dough seems oil, it is. Good luck ! Lets compare notes/pics on Monday
Have Fun
John

[Pete-zza]

can i substitute the ADY with IDY and use the same percentage? i plan on trying this recipe this weekend.

Technically, for whichever of the dough formulations you decide to use you should reduce the amount of ADY by about 25%, by weight, to get the amount of IDY to use. That is the number you would use in one of the dough calculating tools to adjust all of the ingredient quantities (the differences should be slight). The conversion table that John is referring to is at http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm.

Peter

[koloa101]

hey all,
here is my attempt at my first deep dish. i am glad my first try is consider a success thanks to this thread! very tasty pie and good enough to serve! i had some trouble at first shaping so the crust had too much of the dough; therefore a bit thin in the center. also, something in my ingredients contain way too much water. the first slice a bunch of water came leaking out. it may of been from the spinach/sausage/or redpack tomatoes?

i followed BTB's recipe posted on page 3 using all trumps and 25% semolina, also used the yeast chart Peter posted earlier to convert ADY to IDY. This pie was a sausage/green pepper/onion/spinach/mozzarella/whole peeled plum red pack tomatoes/ and a sprinkle of Parmigiano-Reggiano...it was awesome 

[JConk007]

Sweet Koloa!
Did you use fresh Mozz.? and how much ? or just eye it. I think the spinach could have some moisture, but most I think is in the sauce. I drained the 6-in1s' for a few hours before using. Also when shaping I start with the ball in the middle press it out, wait a few minutes, press some more, then wait some more. Repeat this until I have the whole base of pan covered with an extra rim at the edge then press it up the side. Did you use anything on the bottom of your pan? Oil, crisco? I used a bit of crisco, but nothing on the sides to keep dough from pulling off.
Great job! BTB will be proud. Goes quick once cut eh!
John

[koloa101]

thanks JConk007.

for the bottom, i used a little 50/50 mixture of flour and semolina to coat the dough ball right before stretching out. i also buttered up the pan. for the sauce, i used a can of whole peeled plum tomatoes. i took out each tomatoe, deseeded and then blended with a little olive oil and spices. from the sounds of it, it seems that the sauce is the cause for the much water content. next time, ill drain more and give that a try. also, yes i did use fresh bella gioso mozzerella, about 1/2 a lb.

[BTB]

I agree with John, Koloa, great deep dish first try.  Looks very tasty, indeed, altho I'm not much of a spinach fan.  Coating the pan with butter often leads to a darker outer color, but it looked fine to me as I like it a little browned with some burnt edges.  Very nice job with the tomatoes.  I loved the appearance and consistency of the tomatoes and the "dabs" of fresh mozzarella, altho I suspect that the great tasting fresh Bella Gioso is the primary source of excess water in the pizza.  While a little of such provides some very good tasting aspects to the pizza, none of the great classic Chicago deep dish pizzerias use "fresh" mozzarella on their products.  Not that it isn't good tasting, but just because of watering problems I think (and probably because of cost $$, too).  A half a pound may be too much (assuming in addition to other cheeses, whole milk, skimmed, etc.)  And tomatoes need to be drained somehat, also.  Just experiment a little and see how it goes next time.  But your did a terrific job on you "first."  (Some things are always nicer the "first time," eh.)         --BTB

[koloa101]

wholly mackeral, what a difference in texture and taste with using AP flour. also, after i cooked the sausage, used a paper towel to absorb the excess moisture. i also used preshredded maggio mozzerella. i noticed the pie had much less runny water after the first slice. this is definitely my favorite pie now! i was running low on sauce too.

[JConk007]

Koloa,
Really Nice ! Glad the AP worked out for you It appears you were  able to get a much thinner edge / rim side as well. What % semolina did you use on this one? or just change to AP? I am in Hilton Head SC so no posts or good pizza  that I know of, a soggy NY style with bromated flour is all I can  find back to the fish I quess. There is a brick oven place Called Venti,  opening soon in a strip mall but it has been opening for over a year? glad I am not paying rent on that one!
keep em comin Koloa!

[tsmys]

I noticed much discussion of sausage on this thread so I thought I'd add this technique to the discussion.  This is a recipe I found on another site.  I haven't made the sausage from scratch yet but I have been nuking store brand Italian sausage as suggested and just slicing the "loafs" to place on the pizza.  You don't kneed to get the sausage cooked all the way through.  This method does a good job of de-greasing the sausage and slicing it gives it a very different texture.  I even tried mixing a 1# chub of Italian with a 1# chub of Hot breakfast sausage once and it was pretty tasty also.

Italian Sausage (Chicago Style)
By David Aleksy

4 lbs. pork shoulder (or pre-ground from the grocery in a pinch)
4½ tsp. salt
2 tsp. freshly ground black pepper
4½ tsp. fennel seed
Red pepper to taste, about 1½ tsp.
 

Grind pork and mix in spices. Do not saute the sausage, as it hardens it. Try forming the sausage into 6-inch oblong loaves and microwave them on the defrost setting until the pink barely disappears. Let the loaves cool, then break them into bite sized chunks. Freeze and use as you desire.
 

[foodblogger]

I'm going to give this one a shot tonight.   

[BTB]

tsmys, while I've been tempted at times, I haven't tried to make my own sausage yet, and don't know if I ever will -- as I have so much "on my plate" already to try to accomplish -- but your recipe is very interesting.  Good Italian (or other) sausage is sometimes hard to come by, but around me I have some really great Italian deli's that make their own brand of homemade Italian sausages that are terrific. 

Also, for pizza making purposes, good sausage almost never needs to be degreased, like pepperoni does.  I almost never get a watery pizza that's attributed to the sausage.  Instead it is always either the tomatoes (not drained enough) or "fresh" wet mozzarella (sometimes even whole milk, but rarely) that is the chief culprit when a "too wet" or watery pizza is noticed IMO. 

Almost all Chicago pizzerias, especially the classic famous deep dish pizzerias (like Gino's East, for example), always (repeat . . . always) put the sausage on without pre-cooking it.  Overcooked sausage isn't very tasty -- at least to me -- and I've never made a pizza in which the sausage had turned out "undercooked."  To me, "nuking" sausage would not be an option.  And I know many people like it, but it would be a rare Chicago pizzeria that would have "hot"sausage as their mainstay sausage option.  But once in a while . . . it fits the bill.

Koloa, your latest pictures showed that you are getting really good at making deep dish pizzas.  AP flour is the way to go with deep dish, I think, but others have different tastes and have been successful at using other kinds, too.  I'm glad you pinched or crimped the edges or rim of the pizza as you did, as I think you'll enjoy the taste and texture of it even more.

Good luck guys . . . and/or gals . .  with your pizzamaking adventures.  You'll see how much fun it is.          --BTB