Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina

[BTB]

In many places on these threads it is frequently mentioned that about 98% of Chicago and midwest area pizzerias (non-chain) put Italian sausage (which is the NUMBER ONE pizza ingredient in the Chicago/midwest area) . . . put the Italian sausage on the prepped pizza UNCOOKED.  That is because it will taste much, much better that way (who likes burnt, dried out sausage?).  An exception may be a cheap, fatty sausage that can cause some amount of grease -- but such pizzerias would be put out of business in a short time.

Another exception to this are the new, in-vogue "Neapolitan" or artisan pizzerias in the Chicago area.  Their sausage often comes either par or fully cooked -- the reason being that such style pizzas spend just a few "minutes" in a real hot oven as opposed to either traditional Chicago Style deep dish or thin pizzas that spend considerably more time in the oven at lower temperatures usually from 425 to 500 degrees F. But a lot of Neapolitan pizzas put uncooked sausage on in "thin slices" so it will cook in a very short time.  But remember, with Chicago/midwest area pizzas, the sausage is put on in real clumps and larger pieces and not the little "droppings" that look like breakfast sausage (and other things).  Ten to 15 minutes at midwest pizza oven temperatures is all that is needed to cook (and not over cook) Italian sausage.

I recommend draining crushed tomatoes for a lesser amount of time, like 10 to 20 minutes, and put a very small amount of spices and additives to the sauce.  I've changed 180 degrees from putting a lot of additives to little or none.  And the result was superior -- but that may be just me and mine.  And I don't wish to stir any controversy over canned tomato brands, but Hunts and Contadina would make the bottom on many peoples' lists.  Good luck and I hope your pizza turns out great.  Take pictures and let us know.

                                                                                           --BTB

[Hdale85]

See answer at
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13646.msg136562.html#msg136562

So you don't use the "nesting" pans? They seem to be more straight sided then the stacking ones. I like the source though they are rather affordable for what look like quality pans.



Edit: Actually nevermind, they seem to have more of a taper then the stackers. Some of them are up to 1" smaller on the bottom then the top.

[Klankster]

Thanks for the reply, BTB -- I'll take a shot at spreading the sausage in a layer on top of the cheese like the guy did on the ATK episode.  You're right -- these things cook a lot longer, and I do use good sausage and a heat sink.  Probably a little overly concerned about cooking pork thoroughly from my mom's rantings when I was a kid.

[Hdale85]

Is it like a sin to use anything other then the chunky sauce? I'm not a huge fan of big chunks of tomato haha.

[Klankster]

Made my pizza tonight with this crust and I have to say, it came out AWESOME.  No corn meal, and sure enough, it has the "mouth feel" that I was looking for with that nice texture and taste.  Made it with some Usinger's Italian sausage, mushrooms, onion, black olive slices and some pepperoni on top.  The sausage cooked perfectly and tastes great -- I had always pre-cooked it, this saves me from having to clean another pan!  This is my new standard Chicago-style crust -- I love it!

I'm attaching some photos of the finished product.

[BTB]

Made my pizza tonight with this crust and I have to say, it came out AWESOME.  No corn meal, and sure enough, it has the "mouth feel" that I was looking for with that nice texture and taste . . .

Very nice job, Klankster.  It will only become better and better as you get more experience with this style pizza.  That's a different kind of "pan" that you used, but it seemed to have done a very nice job.  Thanks for the pictures, too, as it gives us all a good feel and view of the great job that you did.

Is it like a sin to use anything other then the chunky sauce? I'm not a huge fan of big chunks of tomato, haha.

Wow, you sound like me a large number of years ago.  I hated chunky type tomato sauce on Chicago Style Deep Dish pizzas.  And now I've acquired such a taste for it on deep dish, that I don't want any without it.  No, it's not a sin to do otherwise, but maybe you can work your way up to it.

Try some Escalon 6 in 1 tomatoes.  It has very fine crushed tomatoes and you won't even notice it.  Then afterwards try adding some small diced tomatoes along with the 6 in 1's.  I'm betting that you may then become a believer.  But I know that there are some people who don't like chunky sauce and I was one of them in the past (and still am on some pastas).

                                                                                                --BTB

[Hdale85]

Yeah I'm just not a fan of straight tomatoes really. The chunky kinds usually taste more like pure tomatoes.

[Klankster]

Very nice job, Klankster.  It will only become better and better as you get more experience with this style pizza.  That's a different kind of "pan" that you used, but it seemed to have done a very nice job.  Thanks for the pictures, too, as it gives us all a good feel and view of the great job that you did.

Thanks!  That's a 10" stoneware pan my wife got me a while back -- It gives excellent results, nice even browning.  I have a similar one with a shallower angle on the sides that I use for deep-dish pies (making an apple pie from my Red Rome Beauty tree as I write this).  They're heavier than metal pans but I do like the results.

The chunky tomatoes discussion is interesting -- I'll try some of your recommended tomatoes next time (and as much as I like this crust, that won't be long!)

[BTB]

I made a couple of 9" diameter Chicago Style deep dish pizzas in the last few days.  After hand mixing the dough together for about 15 to 20 seconds (trying to mix as brief as possible), I put each in a covered bowl and let rise in a slightly warmed oven for about 90 minutes.  They both rose nicely.  Then I put each dough ball into zip lock bags and into the refrigerator where they stayed for 3 days.  Taking out about 2 hours prior to preparation for baking, I used two different styles of pans, placed the flattened dough balls in each, and squeezed the dough tightly at least 1.5" up the sides of the pans.  The water hydration was 45% (it gets to be a tad more with the added butter) and the TF was .125 with a 1.5% bowl residue.  With this information, it would be super simple to convert this recipe to a 12", 14" or any size pizza with the use of the Deep-Dish Dough Calculation Tool on this website for any wishing to do so.
 
The formulation for both pizzas was as follows, each differing only in the flour blend.
 
Flour Blend (100%):  206.59 g  |  7.29 oz | 0.46 lbs
Water (45%):  92.96 g  |  3.28 oz | 0.2 lbs
ADY (.8%):  1.65 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.44 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Salt (1%):  2.07 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.37 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):  12.4 g | 0.44 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.75 tsp | 0.92 tbsp
Corn Oil (12%):  24.79 g | 0.87 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.51 tsp | 1.84 tbsp
Butter/Margarine (6%):  12.4 g | 0.44 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.62 tsp | 0.87 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):  3.1 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.78 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
Total (172.3%): 355.95 g | 12.56 oz | 0.78 lbs | TF = 0.126875
 
The flour blend in the first pizza had 80% KAAP (approx. 165.6 g) and 20% semolina (41.4 g).  The flour blend in the second pizza had 80% KAAP (approx. 165.6 g), 12% semolina (24.8 g), and 8% rice flour (16.5 g).  The butter in each was added at the last moment in the mixing cycle and was very soft, but not melted.  ADY was a little more than the .6% that I normally use. And each pan had roughly a Tbsp of OO in each.
 
I used about 4 oz. of skim mozzarella and 4 oz. of whole milk mozzarella (slices) in each pizza.  I added uncooked Italian sausage (w. fennel) on top of the cheese, then added the Malnati's tomatoes on top of that (about 14 oz. ea.), and then the grated parmesan/romano and oregano on top of that.  I cooked the pizzas on my bottom rack at around 430 degrees F for approx. 30 to 35 minutes.
 
Both pizzas were outstanding and delicious with every morsel being consumed.  The first pizza (80/20) was a little softer even tho I cooked it about 5 minutes longer than the second pizza.  We think the difference was in the use of a Bakers Air-Bake pan that may not crisp up as well as the regular style Chicago Metallic pan that was used with the second pizza.  Shows the difference with use of different pans.  The second pizza (80/12/8) was nice and tasty, too, and a good deal crispier than the first.  Besides the difference in the pan, the second pizza also had the small amount of rice flour incorporated into the flour blend, which is our slight favorite.
 
Also, I used a new brand of semolina, Bellino, that I found at one of my favorite Italian deli's.
 
                                                                                          --BTB

[BTB]

Here are some more pictures showing various stages of the pizzamaking process . . .

[Mick.Chicago]

Yum! 


Interesting Semolina!

I still use Zyad brand, for pizza and making pasta, it's really good.

This one.  It's 1.99 a packet where I get it.

http://www.amazon.com/Ziyad-Wheat-Semolina-16-Ounce-Pack/dp/B001SB2Z30

[mrmackin]

Hello pizza people, this is my first try at making a DD pizza wish me luck!

[Jasonk]

After hand mixing the dough together for about 15 to 20 seconds (trying to mix as brief as possible)

BTB, as you might have noticed in another post, I'm currently at a 50% hydration level and 10% oil, yet it can take me up to several minutes to get a decent enough mix to where I don't have loose flour in the bowl...though I am usually closer to 1 and 2 kg batches admittedly.  How is it that you get a thorough enough mix so quickly?  Even on smaller size experiments of about 500 g total it can take me up to 2-3 minutes...

[Hdale85]

Well I have found most of the ingredients I need to attempt this deep dish. I found Semolina locally, they had some of the vacuum packed stuff like that, but the store also had some in their own containers that it looked like the deli did up. I got one of the stores variety and also one of the vacuum packed so I can see if there is any difference.

I did find the 6 in 1 ground tomatoes so that was nice. Hopefully this weekend I can pick up a digital scale and then I'm also going to make some home made sausage and at that point I'll hopefully be starting on my first Chicago Deep Dish.

What do you guys usually do for the sauces based on the 6 in 1? I do like a sweeter sauce normally.

[BTB]

. . . What do you guys usually do for the sauces based on the 6 in 1? I do like a sweeter sauce normally.

Hdale85, looking forward to hearing about the results of your pizzamaking efforts here.  A scale would be a good investment if you want to get serious into pizzamaking.  

6 in 1's are among the best for use here.  Even tho I've come to add some small diced tomatoes along with the 6 in 1's, I've long made Chicago Style deep dish pizzas with just 6 in 1's and they were great.  Suggest you drain the amount that you may use for 10 to 15 minutes, but not too long as they then get too dry.  You are ambitious with the thought of homemade sausage and that may be a really good thing.  But I've haven't gone that far yet.  Suggest a lot of garlic as Malnati's has such in their sausage and many of the Chicago style deep dish pizzerias, like Malnati's, surprisingly does not contain fennel seed in their pizza sausage.  But that's a matter of personal taste.

I've come around almost 180 degrees on additions to the drained 6 in 1 sauce.  I used to put in a dozen additives and spices, but now lean in favor of a more "purist" approach (meaning little to none).  I no longer like Penzy's or other brand's pizza spices.  At the final "dressing" of the pizza, after some grated parmesan or romano, I pinch on oregano and maybe a little crushed basil. To the draining 6 in 1's, I sometimes put in a pinch or two of garlic/onion powder, or some minced garlic, a bit of salt and white pepper, a couple of pinches of white or light brown sugar, or a dash or two of honey.  But that's about it, if I do that much.

And when I say "pinches," "bits" and "dashes" (which I know some of my pizzamaking friends hate), I am intentionally trying to suggest small amounts.  I've know of too many pizzamakers who voiced displeasure in the results of adding large amounts of teaspoons and tablespoons of additives into the tomato sauce.  Best to start out low and adjust upwards the next time rather than facing a "ruined" pizza.  FWIW, which may be nothing.

Good luck and hope things go well.

                                                                                               --BTB

[BTB]

BTB, as you might have noticed in another post, I'm currently at a 50% hydration level and 10% oil, yet it can take me up to several minutes to get a decent enough mix to where I don't have loose flour in the bowl...though I am usually closer to 1 and 2 kg batches admittedly.  How is it that you get a thorough enough mix so quickly?  Even on smaller size experiments of about 500 g total it can take me up to 2-3 minutes...

JasonK, I think your hydration is definitely "in the ballpark" for Chicago Style deep dish, even tho I normally do slightly less (45 to 47%).  And the oil, too, is "in the ballpark", but on the low end of many of the classics.  I would guess Giordano's, tho, to be around 10% plus.  But I think sometimes we put a bit too much oil into the home recipes.

I don't ever make as big a batch as I'm envisioning that you do.  While I use the mixer/processor for some style pizzas, I always hand mix Chicago Style pizzas in small batches (because I do each pizza a little different usually as an experiment), but I found that a shorter mix in the bowl results in a much, much better crust -- at least for me.  So I now do "minimal" mixing.  I don't know what to say, but I rarely come across a situation where the mixture isn't "thorough enough."  And there's little to no loose flour left in the bowl.  I wonder if that isn't because of additional oil that I normally use.

If you're using a big mixer and a lot of flour, then 2 - 3 minutes isn't bad.  You may want to try doing slightly less, but it may be fine as is.  Good luck.

                                                                                                      --BTB

P.S.  I just noticed some of your earlier postings.  Chicago Style deep dish usually involves use of AP flour, not the high gluten flour or 00 that you indicated using.  That could substantially change the mixing time variable.

[Hdale85]

Thanks BTB, I generally don't like the plain tomato flavor on a pizza, nor does my wife the few times we've had it that way. But I'll have to play a bit with it I suppose. I was thinking some basil and a bit of sugar to sweeten it just a little. We both love garlic so definitely don't have a problem putting lots of garlic in the sausage! I don't like fennel much either so not a problem leaving that out. Some pizza place around here we go to a lot seems to sprinkle fennel over their pizza and I hate it. That's the stuff that sort of has a black licorice flavor right?

[BTB]

Some pizza place around here we go to a lot seems to sprinkle fennel over their pizza and I hate it. That's the stuff that sort of has a black licorice flavor right?

No, that's Anise, which is the second most popular spice in Italian sausage. But one never gets, I don't think, both Fennel seed and Anise seeds together.  I love Anise spices, but too many pizzerias or pizzamakers put waaaaay too much of it on or in the pizza sauce.  It's a specialty thing, but in my book it's best for some styles of thin crust pizza, not deep dish. I also love fennel seed, but not in deep dish and not in excess on Chicago thin crust pizzas either.  But I love both on the right pizza.

[Hdale85]

Hmm well then I'm not sure what fennel tastes like by it self. I'm sure I've had it before though.

[Clive At Five]

It's been a few months, but I'm back. Hello everyone once again.

@Hdale85 -- Everyone has their sauce preferences, and I take mine a very different direction from BTB.

My tomato preferences are the Muir Glen CRUSHED tomatoes (28oz) because they are readily available to me in-store (usually in the organic foods aisle). Then I'll use a petite-dice (14oz) of either Del Monte or Red Gold, depending on what's available and what's on sale. I never _EVER_ use Hunts, and I don't even consider myself a tomato snob like of some of the people on these forums. 

For me, the add-ins are important. You mentioned you like a sweeter sauce. I do too. I add maybe 2 - 3 tablespoons of honey to the above tomatoes (which I drained for a few minutes previously). I'll put in roughly a tablespoon of "Italian Seasoning," whatever brand I have in the cupboard. I generally dislike pure oregano (sorry BTB ) which is why I go with the store-bought blends. If I have fresh basil on hand, I will typically add some... (I _love_ me that fresh basil!) Occasionally, I'll add some garlic, FINELY minced because I don't like large chunks. Lastly, since it is a sweet sauce, I add a substantial amount of salt to balance it out... maybe 1 - 2 teaspoons. I never measure any of the ingredients; I just add to-taste. That's what I recommend you do, but ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION. You can always add more honey, seasonings and salt later.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

-Clive