Author Topic: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina  (Read 150246 times)

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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2008, 01:26:18 PM »
While I have not tried it, I've seen many on this website indicate that they thought the crush tomatoes in the Walmart house brand (think it's "Great Value" brand) is a pretty good substitute for 6 in 1.


Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2008, 02:01:21 PM »
Back from the store with Red Pack Crushed. Cento organic diced? Bobs Red Mill Semolina, some rice flour for the peel (later) and Pete The Hormel Pep. was on sale 2 pkg for $4 thats the best I have seen! date on back March 09 they will be lucky to make it to Dec 08! I think thats just a sell by date? I keep this stuff around a month or 2 with no prob. after opening. Another tid-bit I picked up was some Marscapone cheese just because I think I remember reading about it?  I'll do the simple search here, and sure you could dig me up a few links peter? 
On a side note; I was there looking for the  bobs red mill which I knew they sell because I got it from their web site. The manager was there doing some pricing or whatever the manager does  and he pointed me to it. "great"  I said I plan to use 25% of this and the KAAP flour to make a deep dish. The reply was " why go thru all that I just call pizza hut"  after the shock, with the recent posts burning on my mind,  I prepared to give a dissertation on the ailing chain. Nope, I just smirked and said "That works"  if she only knew ;D

Back to the Pie.
Thats exactly how I reversed loos formulation as well peter. 1.5 " up, straight pan .125 TF and a 1.5 waste. so I guess I finally do have it figured out.
Allways open and grateful for suggestions and advice
Thank you in advance for a slice of the good stuff.
John
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 02:06:18 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2008, 02:37:45 PM »
Sorry I didn't jump back in sooner.  Now I haven't read everything back to my last post but real quick, and sorry I didn't post this in my original, I know better, I use a thickness factory of .130 without adding a % for bowl residue.

Loo
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 03:03:03 PM by loowaters »
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Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2008, 03:02:15 PM »
Loo
That sounds great! I am also making this Manalti style this weekend I may just double your recipe and use whatever dough it takes to make a 14 " I think 6G ADY yeast may be too much?( My new deep dish pan 14X2 :D) and mini pie the balance, or if Peter or someone can give me the calculation for a 14" that would be great! I just don't have the Calculator tool worked out yet . I am stumped with the thickness factors. I do have a few questions if you could please.
You use ADY instead of IDY for same day from what I have both  but from what  I have read IDY would be better for a same day? Or just does not matter? I will be doing overnight refrigorated rise
What type of cheese are you using? Block? shred? part skimand how much (weight and thickness?)
Did you pre cook your sausage, or nuke your pepperoni?
Crisco vs. oil on pan
Thats lower rack at 475  20 min. right? Did you finish it on stone out of pan?
Sauce is 6 in 1 Drained or undrained?
I have the new york style pretty wired so I am excited to advance my repertiore so please anyone BTB,MM,DKM feel free to help me out I do appreciate it. Based on what I have been making with Caputo 00 I know my brain is going to tell me " this dough is not right" I have never made this shaggy/flaky type so thanks for all the pictures, They say 1000 words! Thats whats so cool about this forum.
Thanks all
JOHN



John, I'm sorry, if I had more time this morning I would have gone into greater detail about how I made this. 

To answer the questions:

-I ferment as I can.  Yesterday I had to do it same day because it struck me that I haven't made a DD in months and I wanted one.  I'm a bachelor this week and don't have to explain it to my wife. :P  I'm going to make my dough on Thursday for Friday night's use and it will get less ADY and fridge rise.

-I use only sliced part skim low moisture mozz but occasionally will go 50/50 with provalone.  Whole milk doesn't seem to reheat as well.

-I never precook my sausage but have nuked my pepperoni before.

-I like to use Crisco because a solid fat is easier to work the dough into the pan with than the oil.

-I went middle rack at 475 but it's more about distance from your element.  Trial and error that one.  No stone involved.

-For sauce I do something different than everyone else in this thread, I hand crush whole, peeled, tomatoes.  Crush into pieces the size of a quarter or a little larger, de-seeding as I go.  I'll then add puree back in to those crushed, drained tomatoes.  Salt and pepper is all they get.  I usually use Wal Mart's Great Value crushed tomatoes but prefer 6in1's, they just aren't usually available to me.  I don't drain them but if I was using them by themselves on a pie I would.  I make my puree from the crushed or ground tomatoes.

A lot of what I usually do is in this thread - http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4070.40.html

Good luck.

-



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Offline mmarston

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2008, 10:09:30 AM »
When calculating the amount of Semolina do you use a % of the total flour or the Semolina entry in the Dough calculator?
Each method provides different amounts???

Is there any significant difference between using Canola, Corn or Safflower oil in the deep dish style?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 10:12:17 AM by mmarston »
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2008, 10:16:16 AM »
MM,
Good ? before I begin. I am planning to use % of total flour for semolina no entry 0 in that box choice.
I have all the oil so I'll wait on that one I think the canola is prefered here.
J
 
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2008, 10:30:02 AM »
When calculating the amount of Semolina do you use a % of the total flour or the Semolina entry in the Dough calculator?
Each method provides different amounts???

Is there any significant difference between using Canola, Corn or Safflower oil in the deep dish style?

Michael,

The deep-dish dough calculating tool was designed primarily to work with existing dough formulations where the baker's percents and weights are already known or can be readily ascertained. When creating a brand new dough formulation, as BTB has done, the better method to use is to treat the flour and semolina together as a blend rather than as separate entries in the tool, just as BTB has been doing most recently. That way, the hydration is treated with respect to the blend. It is possible to use semolina separately in the tool, but then it becomes necessary to re-calculate all of the baker's percents for all of the ingredients because the tool uses hydration only with respect to the flour, not the blend. Using the semolina in the tool and doing the recalculation of baker's percents ends up with some strange percents (e.g., the hydration might show up as 85% and the semolina might show up as 82%) that distort what the dough formulation really is. So, the better way is to treat the semolina and flour together in the tool as the 100% entry.

I will leave to others the question you posed relative to the different oils.

Peter

Offline mmarston

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2008, 10:56:04 AM »
Thanks,

That's what I thought but wasn't sure.
I'm going to try some type of Chicago style this weekend. I'll probably go with this style as it sounds great.

If anyone's interested I have an old recipe for a very thin all semolina dough with baking powder that is cooked in a dry frying pan, flipped, topped and finished in the pan with a cover on top. I've used it as a base for various appetizer ingredients.

Michael
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Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2008, 01:16:53 PM »
Is there any significant difference between using Canola, Corn or Safflower oil in the deep dish style?

They'll all produce a different taste and my personal taste preference is using primarily corn oil.
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Offline mmarston

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2008, 08:54:12 PM »
I had to jerk my bi coastal and honorary Italian self around quite a bit but I made a great Chicago style based on reply 16 (25% semolina) from this thread. I layered Mozz and Parmesan, It sausage (lightly fried and drained) , some chopped baby spinach mixed with a bit of grated Mozz and more Parmesan. Finished with drained 6 in 1s with some added Muir Glen chopped for texture including Basil, Oregano, granulated garlic and a bit of crushed red pepper.

While I still have trouble calling this a pizza it was delicious. I had hoped to try  a Mexican version as well but we had a nasty ice storm here Thursday night and while I never lost power I had a lot of downed trees to clean up.  Next time!

Frankly it's a good thing I only made one 9" pie as my wife and I could only eat half of it.

Michael
« Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 09:00:45 PM by mmarston »
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2008, 08:39:59 AM »
Micheal ,
Looks great !
I also made my first deep dish made 2 nine inch pies 1 sausage one pepperoni slightly nuked to degrease (and 7  NY Neapolitan hey the oven was hot) oh and thanks to Peter 1 BBQ Chicken Dogh tool was perfect final weight was right on!
Thank you BTB and Loo for your input tasted great!! Crust did not look as shaggy but tasted very very similar to the last UNO I had. Used the drained 6-1 and added 1 can of Hand crushed DOP San Marzanos
to chunk it up a bit. Because I could and because I have been buying to many sample tomatoes and the cabinet is full  :D Reduced the liquid from both and used it for the NY style sauce. Yummy.
I will posts pics of the process / results tonight. Guaranteed to make you hungry.
Thanks again
John
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 09:35:04 AM by JConk007 »
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Offline mmarston

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2008, 09:19:49 AM »
Many thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. My first attempt was a great success. I think I'm going to try one of the more biscuity types next time.

If you have never made a Chicago style before keep in mind that the dough is nothing like a NY or Neapolitan. At first I thought something had gone wrong and was horrified by the greasy ball of dough I made. I went back and confirmed the amounts of oil in typical Chicago recipes and was reassured.

This may be obvious but if you like to use Italian sausage it's worth trying to find an Italian deli or butcher that makes their own sausage. I've found it is almost always leaner and of higher quality than what you find at the supermarket.
It freezes very well so you can stock up if the store is not nearby.

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #72 on: December 15, 2008, 09:42:39 AM »
Michael,

When I first researched the doughs for the Chicago deep-dish style, especially the dough recipes of folks who worked in the business and offered up dough recipes, I found the range of oil to be around 8-24% (or thereabouts). However, the members on this forum sometimes exceed the outer limit.

Peter

Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #73 on: December 15, 2008, 09:43:57 AM »
I forgot to mention the 1 mistake I made. When I was reading "I added water to flour and let stand for about 25 Min." Well I added water and oils then read "after that I added the oils and..."
I still let it all rest minus 1/2 cup of  flour, for like 20Min., and turned out fine. Maybe that affected the hydration and that is why it was not as dry looking> Yes plenty oily but I expected that. Spread into crisco pan nicely.
Same thing here, I cannot wait to make this again  good stuff  and leftovers for lunch today if I make it that long ;D
JOhn
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Offline mmarston

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #74 on: December 15, 2008, 11:27:43 AM »
Peter

This recipe calls for:

Olive Oil (5%)
Corn Oil (18%)
Butter/Margarine (1%):

I'd like to try reducing the corn and perhaps the olive oil. What effect would this have on the dough and what amounts would you suggest?

Michael
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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #75 on: December 15, 2008, 12:48:49 PM »
Michael,

There are others who are perhaps better qualified than I to address your question, but at high oil levels the flour in the dough is prevented from being fully hydrated (reduced cohesion between wheat gluten strands), leading to reduced gluten development (the gluten needs good hydration for development). So, the gluten strands will become less elastic and the finished crust will be tender. To the extent that solid fats are used, like butter or margarine or shortening, their use will shorten the length of the gluten strands (hence, the term "shortening") and contribute to flakiness in the finished crust. As you reduce the amount of oil and/or the solid fats in a dough formulation, you should expect to experience more gluten development, because of more complete hydration, and less flakiness or biscuit-like effect. So, the crust will start to approach that of a crust made from a more standard dough. An additional effect of reducing the amounts of oils and fats in a dough is that there will be some loss of flavor, since one of the purposes of using oil or fat in a dough is to get the flavor profile and richness that they contribute. There will also be a reduced fat "mouthfeel", which some people find very desirable. Of course, the caloric count will be down also.

The amount of oils and fats to use is, to a great extent, a matter of personal taste preference and also what kind of texture in the finished crust you would like to have. Hence, I can't tell you where you should draw the line in your case. If I were trying to draw that line for myself, I would perhaps start at the low end of the range and compare the results with higher oil and fat values. Remember, too, that reducing the oil in a given dough formulation will also require adjustment of the hydration of the dough, with effects that may not be known, or even liked, until you try out the final formulation. That is why I personally would look for an existing deep-dish dough formulation that uses low levels of oils and fats. Even then, you should be able to use some semolina flour as part of the overall flour blend. I did a quick search and found a Tom Lehmann deep-dish dough recipe at http://www.pmq.com/recipe/view_recipe.php?id=54 that uses low oil levels. Surprisingly, the amount of oil is even lower than the lower limit I mentioned in my last post.  Another fairly low-oil deep-dish dough formulation is the one that appears at pages 130-131 of Peter Reinhart's pizza cookbook American Pie. That recipe calls for 5 tablespoons of corn oil, with an estimated baker's percent of around 11%. However, I should caution you that my recollection is that some of the members did not care for the Reinhart recipe. Of course, that doesn't mean that you will react the same way to the Reinhart recipe. 

Peter

Edit (2/15/14): For a replacement for the above inoperative link, see http://www.pmq.com/Recipe-Bank/index.php/name/Deep-Dish-Pizza/record/57725/
« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 09:01:20 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline mmarston

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #76 on: December 15, 2008, 01:04:55 PM »
Peter,

Thanks again, your knowledge and memory are, as always, amazing.

Michael
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #77 on: December 15, 2008, 08:57:27 PM »
Here are the 2 babies from yesterday My first try at BTB recipe
as I said my dough looked slightly different especially after final ball  as seen here but again nice biscuit flavor
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #78 on: December 15, 2008, 08:59:51 PM »
shell , cheese fresh  mozz ,and a touch of provy, sweet sausage deskinned
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #79 on: December 15, 2008, 09:03:49 PM »
viola chicago deep dish and a few NY Neopolitan Style that followed  :chef:
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