Author Topic: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina  (Read 188319 times)

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Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #225 on: February 01, 2010, 09:23:44 PM »
Joe, I don't see any real problems with those numbers.  If it's semolina you want in the blend, just replace that amount by weight.  25% for you would be 118.65g based on your numbers above.  The rest would now be 355.95g flour.

You're right, the IDY will be less than the ADY if that's what you're going to use and adjusting downward by 1/3 is a pretty good rule of thumb. 

If you want the dough to be thicker just increase the TF.  You can do this thru trial and error, but for a little help, remember that the TF is the amount of dough in ounces per square inch.

A 16" deep dish pizza is a monster that I would probably advise you to just cut in the pan rather than try to get it out.

Good luck.

Loo
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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #226 on: February 01, 2010, 09:37:42 PM »
Joe, I just ran your proportions in the deep dish calculation tool and got the same total weight, but the weights for all the other ingredients are different.  Am uncertain what we did differently.  Here's my result:

Flour Blend * (100%):  542.4 g  |  19.13 oz | 1.2 lbs
Water (47%):  254.93 g  |  8.99 oz | 0.56 lbs
IDY (.5%):  2.71 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.9 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Salt (.5%):  2.71 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.49 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):  32.54 g | 1.15 oz | 0.07 lbs | 7.23 tsp | 2.41 tbsp
Corn Oil (18.5%):  100.34 g | 3.54 oz | 0.22 lbs | 7.43 tbsp | 0.46 cups
Butter/Margarine (1%):  5.42 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.15 tsp | 0.38 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):  8.14 g | 0.29 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.04 tsp | 0.68 tbsp
Total (175%): 949.2 g | 33.48 oz | 2.09 lbs | TF = 0.126875
    * The flour blend comprises 406.8 grams of AP and 135.6 grams of semolina
      Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.125; pan is straight-sided and 16" in diameter; the dough is pushed
      up the sides of the pan by 1 1/2"; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%. 

A 16" deep dish pizza is really a monster.  You must have an army to feed.  That size pan will not fit in the average home oven, but I trust it does in yours.  Just a suggestion to cut back on the oil 2 to 4 points.

                                                                                        --BTB                     :-\

Offline joe697

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #227 on: February 02, 2010, 04:28:48 PM »
Thank you for the replies Loo & BTB.  Sometimes one can actually hear the click when the proverbial light bulb turns on.  I know I did when looking at BTB's post.  I foolishly had been entering 20% or 25% into the Semolina field of the dd calculator.  I'm glad I now understand how to correctly use the tool. 

- Joe

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #228 on: February 02, 2010, 04:37:33 PM »
I foolishly had been entering 20% or 25% into the Semolina field of the dd calculator.
Um . . . as indicated earlier in this thread, I initially did that too.  So don't feel so bad.  Looking forward to hearing about your successes.                                                                                                      --BTB

Offline peetzabone

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #229 on: February 06, 2010, 04:15:58 PM »
 :o

BTB- my buddy and I agree that those photos are nearly porno. I am salivating like a Mr. Pavlov's dog in a steeple at noon. Or midnight.

Am I ok doubling your dough recipe without correction?  I don't know if you said how large your pan was but I know I want to make two pies and one of them may be stuffed so I may just 3x the recipe.

Thanks for the inspiration!!

Offline firefly765

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina (adding mushrooms)
« Reply #230 on: February 12, 2010, 08:58:59 AM »
 
When adding mushrooms to this pizza do you pre cook them? Or, add them raw above the sausage? Going to try again tonight with 2 new 9" silver cake pans I bought. Wish me luck!

db,

  If you scan this thread back a few pages and you'll see some pics of the result, which wasn't watery at all, despite the addition of cooked spinach and mushrooms.

Michelle

Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #231 on: February 12, 2010, 09:19:06 AM »
I mixed this dough last evening.  Do you see anything wrong with my calculations.  I am going to make the Malnati Deep Dish tonight in a 12" straight side deep dish pan.  I wanted to see if the Durum flour was okay for this formula.

BTB Manlnati Deep Dish with KAAP and Durum Flour


277.56 g  KAAP Flour        92.52 g Durum Flour

Flour (100%):    370.08 g  |  13.05 oz | 0.82 lbs
Water (47%):    173.94 g  |  6.14 oz | 0.38 lbs
IDY (0.5%):    1.85 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
Salt (0.5%):    1.85 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.39 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):    22.2 g | 0.78 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.93 tsp | 1.64 tbsp
Corn Oil (18.5%):    68.46 g | 2.41 oz | 0.15 lbs | 5.07 tbsp | 0.32 cups
Butter/Margarine (1%):    3.7 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.78 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):    5.55 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.39 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
Total (175%):   647.64 g | 22.84 oz | 1.43 lbs | TF = 0.1275723

Thanks,

Norma

Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #232 on: February 12, 2010, 11:11:24 AM »
That looks like a pretty heavy dough ball.  Using my calculations 12" at .1275723 comes in at 579g.  It looks like you went the full two inches up the sides of the pan, I usually go 1 1/2".  There's the difference.  Looks good and should work out fine.

Loo
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #233 on: February 12, 2010, 11:22:43 AM »
Norma,

There are three pieces of information that we need to know to enable us to tell if what you came up with is correct: 1) the thickness factor, 2) how far up the sides of your pan the dough goes, and 3) the bowl residue compensation. BTB uses a thickness factor of 0.125, the dough goes up the sides of the pan by 1.5", and the bowl residue compensation is 1.5%. I tried different combinations in the deep-dish dough calculating tool and couldn't come up with your results. Using BTB's values for the above three numbers for a 12" straight-sided pan, I get the following:

Flour (100%):
Water (47%):
IDY (0.5%):
Salt (0.50%):
Olive Oil (6%):
Corn Oil (18.5%):
Butter/Margarine (1%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (175%):
329.31 g  |  11.62 oz | 0.73 lbs
154.78 g  |  5.46 oz | 0.34 lbs
1.65 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.55 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
1.65 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.3 tsp | 0.1 tbsp
19.76 g | 0.7 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.39 tsp | 1.46 tbsp
60.92 g | 2.15 oz | 0.13 lbs | 4.51 tbsp | 0.28 cups
3.29 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.7 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
4.94 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.24 tsp | 0.41 tbsp
576.3 g | 20.33 oz | 1.27 lbs | TF = 0.126875

Peter


Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #234 on: February 12, 2010, 11:29:55 AM »
Norma, that does seem like too much dough for a 12" diameter deep dish.  My use of the deep dish calculator came up with 576.3 g (with 1.5" up the side of the pan and 1.5% bowl residue, and a .125 TF).  I would suggest that you simply just not use all the dough.  Save the excess for a little thn crust.  Your flour proportion shows 25% semolina flour. 

Opps, I see Peter had already responded.  Let us know how the pizza turns out.

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Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #235 on: February 12, 2010, 11:40:42 AM »
loowaters,

Thanks for looking over my calculations and telling me it looked like the dough ball is heavy.  Hopefully it works out okay.  Here is a picture of what the dough ball looks like now.

Thanks,

Norma

Peter,

I went by the formula at reply #226 and used the deep dish calculating tool.  I did use a thickness factor of 0.125 and 1.5 bowl residue.  I put in the calculator 12" pan and 2" deep.  I didnít save the all of the numbers I put in, just the formula I thought I needed to mix. 

Thanks,

Norma

BTB,

Thanks for also going over my calculations.  I will follow your advise and not use all of the dough.  I did use 25% for the Durum flour, in place of Semolina.  I will let you know how the deep dish turns out.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #236 on: February 12, 2010, 11:52:50 AM »
I think I know what I did wrong.  I have to look in this thread.  I think there was another place here that I saw a thickness factor of 0.1275723 and that is what I used.  I will look and see if that is where I went wrong.  I did look and can't find out why I used this thickness factor of 0.1275723 .  ::)

Norma
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 12:26:18 PM by norma427 »

Offline mkc

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina (adding mushrooms)
« Reply #237 on: February 12, 2010, 05:52:24 PM »

When adding mushrooms to this pizza do you pre cook them? Or, add them raw above the sausage? Going to try again tonight with 2 new 9" silver cake pans I bought. Wish me luck!


Hi Firefly,

I precook the sliced mushrooms in a small amount of olive oil and with some minced garlic.  I cook them past the point of giving off moisture and to the point where they're fairly dry.  Mushrooms contain a lot of water and would result in a soggy 'za.

Good luck with the new pans!  Are you going to try the lower (450 F) temperature as well?

Michelle (doing my first Glutenboy recipe NY style tonight...)

Offline dbgtr

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #238 on: February 12, 2010, 06:03:57 PM »
Firefly, I concur with Michelle.  Brown them off before adding them to the pie.  They'll lose lots of water in the process, and the caramelization will give them a deeper flavor.  I like the idea of adding the garlic, Michelle.   Nice touch. --db

Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #239 on: February 12, 2010, 10:18:45 PM »
I must say, I thought this Malnati Deep Dish was really good.  One slice was enough to fill me. Thanks to BTB and everyone that has contributed to this thread.

I rolled the dough out for this pie. The dough was easy to roll out.  I made the one spot too thin, so I just patched it with the leftover dough. The Malnati Deep Dish was dressed with mozzarella, sausage, pepperoni, and 6 in 1 sauce and grated Parmesan cheese..  I added only sugar and sea salt to the 6 in 1 sauce.

Since I have only made one other deep dish, I really donít have too much to compare this to. I do think the Durum flour was okay to use in this pie.  The crust was crispy.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #240 on: February 12, 2010, 10:19:47 PM »
rest of pictures

Norma
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 10:39:10 PM by norma427 »

Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #241 on: February 13, 2010, 11:14:54 AM »
Peter,

With a slightly awkward on going attempt to figure out what I did wrong in using the deep-dish dough calculator, I went over what I thought I might have done wrong.  I now know I didnít use a bowl residue.  I also used a thickness factor of 0.127572.  I have printed, scanned and saved the whole process.  I think I have figured this out.

Here is the scanned document.

Norma


Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #242 on: February 13, 2010, 11:26:56 AM »
Norma, those pictures looked fantastic.  Boy, I would like to taste some of that pizza.  I can't help but believe that the pizza tasted as good as the pictures.  The tear in the skin happens from time to time, but you did right by patching it with some extra dough. 

As I expressed in another thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10161.msg90113.html#msg90113 ), I am a little unfamiliar or perplexed about the question of durum flour vs. semolina flour as I haven't come across or ever used something just called durum flour before. 
I thought I remember you making a deep dish with some semolina before, but maybe I'm mistaken.  If you did, did you notice any difference in taste between the semolina flour and the flour you got that was labeled "durum flour?"

I see you used "cooked" sausage vs. the traditional uncooked sausage, which is fine.  Also grated cheese vs. slices, which is also fine.  You put on a great amount of pepperoni and wonder if it didn't get a little too greasy from the pepperoni.  But many love it that way. 

Great job and I always look forward to hearing of your adventures in pizzamaking.

                                                                                                  --BTB

P.S. When you have a pan that is 2" deep, most people do not enter 2" in the section that says "How far up the side of the pan will the dough go?"  Instead most will enter 1.5" or something less than 2".  I think your entering 2" was the reason for an increased amount of dough.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #243 on: February 13, 2010, 11:35:29 AM »
Norma,

BTB's explanation in his PS is correct. BTB's thickness factor after using a bowl residue compensation of 1.5% is 0.126875. The difference between that value and the value you used without a bowl residue compensation, that it, 0.1275723, is de minimus. What made the difference in your case is that you used 2", not 1 1/2", as the depth of the skin when placed in your pan.

I agree with BTB on the looks of your pizza. Did you bake the pizza in your home oven or at market in your deck oven?

Peter

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #244 on: February 13, 2010, 11:47:55 AM »
BTB,

Since Norma used durum flour for her version of your pizza and posted here, I thought I would post here also on the durum/semolina issue.

I have always viewed durum as being a species of wheat and semolina as the ground endosperm of the durum wheat. Semolina flour is not a distinct species, like whole wheat or rye flour. It comes only from the endosperm of durum wheat. That is consistent with what I have read on Wikipedia about durum wheat, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durum, and on semolina, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semolina. I suppose the fineness of the semolina characterizes it as fine or coarse. Assuming that what Norma used was durum flour, and that the bag was properly labeled, then I believe she would have gotten the endosperm also. No doubt, there is a lot of mislabeling going on with durum and semolina, with little likelihood of anyone being around to clarify what your really have on your hands.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #245 on: February 13, 2010, 01:06:09 PM »
BTB,

Coming from a master of deep-dish pizzas, I really appreciated you saying the Malnati Deep Dish looked fantastic.  :)  I wish you could also taste the pie.  Then I would  know if this is how the pizza is supposed to taste. 

In the other thread you are referring to, these are the two replies I gave:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10267.msg90124.html#msg90124 and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10267.msg90185.html#msg90185

This is the third kind of pizza I have made using different durum flours.  The one was at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg88349.html#msg88349 and the 2nd one was at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg89503.html#msg89503

Both of these pizzas turned out okay using the durum flour. 

I made a Giordanoís Stuffed Crust at, but didnít use durum flour for that pizza. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10018.msg87298.html#msg87298  This is the formula I used for the Giordano's Stuffed Crust. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5674.msg69607.html#msg69607

I only have these two Chicago deep-dish pies to compare.  Although these two pizzas crusts are different I enjoyed both of the pies.  I think I like the Malnati Deep Dish better though, in terms of the taste of the crust. 

Your pie has inspired me to try more.

Thanks so much,

Norma

Peter,

Thanks for saying you agree with BTB about this Malnati Deep Dish.  I baked this pie in my home oven.

I have three kinds of durum flour here at home right now.  One Warren gave me at Warrenís Bread Baking Demo at Fredís Music. He purchased that one at Echo Foods. Another one that I used for this recipe, that was purchased by Bob1 and I bought from him at the Bread Demo.  That was purchased at Bova Foods.  The other one is the one my daughter purchased for me in Queens, New York.  That one is Divella Durum Wheat Semolina.  Matt had said he uses a different brand of this flour that is finer than mine. 

I do believe all these durum flours can become confusing, but they have all worked out okay for me in making different pizzas.  ::)

Thanks,

Norma
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 06:51:30 AM by norma427 »

Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #246 on: February 13, 2010, 01:36:12 PM »
I anyone is interested is seeing the durum flour I used  in the Malanti Deep Dish recipe by BTB, this is a picture of the flour.

Norma

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #247 on: February 13, 2010, 03:43:57 PM »
I would think the durum would perform similarly within the dough.  However the picture you posted looks a little more "powdery" or "floury" than what I expect to see from semolina. 

But if the pizza came out tasting good, that's all that counts. :)

Thanks for sharing.  ;D

-ME
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 03:47:09 PM by Mad_Ernie »
Let them eat pizza.

Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #248 on: February 13, 2010, 04:32:02 PM »
I would think the durum would perform similarly within the dough.  However the picture you posted looks a little more "powdery" or "floury" than what I expect to see from semolina. 

But if the pizza came out tasting good, that's all that counts. :)

Thanks for sharing.  ;D

-ME


Mad_Ernie,

The pizza did taste good.  We just had a reheated slice in the oven.  It is still good.  :)
Two more slices to go.

Thanks,

Norma



Offline RoughMix

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #249 on: February 14, 2010, 09:30:13 AM »
I've been trying for years to make a good Chicago style pizza at home. Thanks to BTB and everyone who contributes to this forum. I can't believe that I didn't find this forum earlier.

I made my first BTB-inspired Malnati's style pizza last weekend. Unfortunately, my crust came out very dry. I believe I've missed something in this long thread. I used this dough formulation and these instructions:

Flour (100%):  202.88 g  |  7.16 oz | 0.45 lbs
(AP Flour = 152.16 g and Semolina = 50.72 g)
Water (47%):  95.35 g  |  3.36 oz | 0.21 lbs
ADY (.7%):  1.42 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.38 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):  12.17 g | 0.43 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.71 tsp | 0.9 tbsp
Corn Oil (18.5%):  37.53 g | 1.32 oz | 0.08 lbs | 8.34 tsp | 2.78 tbsp
Butter/Margarine (1%):  2.03 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):  3.04 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.76 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Cream of Tartar (.75%):  1.52 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.51 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
Total (175.45%): 355.95 g | 12.56 oz | 0.78 lbs | TF = 0.126875

I mixed the semolina and salt with the KAAP, but withheld 1/4 cup of the KAAP.  I added the water with the previously proofed
ADY, mixed with a wooden spoon and by hand, covered and let rest for around 25 minutes in a warm part of the kitchen. 
Then I added the rest of the flour along with the oil and the small amount of melted and cooled butter. 
After kneading for a very short time (est. 1 min.), I found I needed a teaspoon or two more of KAAP, and then put the
formed dough ball into a ziplock bag and into the refrigerator for 24 hours.


Using 3.36 oz. of water (which I used to proof the yeast), I could barely get my dough into a ball, so I added another ounce of water and followed the instructions as shown above.

The crust, while edible, was very dry and crumbly. Should I be proofing the yeast separate from the 3.36 oz. of water? Or am I missing something else?

BTB, can you help?

Thanks.