Author Topic: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina  (Read 161124 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #240 on: February 12, 2010, 10:19:47 PM »
rest of pictures

Norma
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 10:39:10 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #241 on: February 13, 2010, 11:14:54 AM »
Peter,

With a slightly awkward on going attempt to figure out what I did wrong in using the deep-dish dough calculator, I went over what I thought I might have done wrong.  I now know I didnít use a bowl residue.  I also used a thickness factor of 0.127572.  I have printed, scanned and saved the whole process.  I think I have figured this out.

Here is the scanned document.

Norma
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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #242 on: February 13, 2010, 11:26:56 AM »
Norma, those pictures looked fantastic.  Boy, I would like to taste some of that pizza.  I can't help but believe that the pizza tasted as good as the pictures.  The tear in the skin happens from time to time, but you did right by patching it with some extra dough. 

As I expressed in another thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10161.msg90113.html#msg90113 ), I am a little unfamiliar or perplexed about the question of durum flour vs. semolina flour as I haven't come across or ever used something just called durum flour before. 
I thought I remember you making a deep dish with some semolina before, but maybe I'm mistaken.  If you did, did you notice any difference in taste between the semolina flour and the flour you got that was labeled "durum flour?"

I see you used "cooked" sausage vs. the traditional uncooked sausage, which is fine.  Also grated cheese vs. slices, which is also fine.  You put on a great amount of pepperoni and wonder if it didn't get a little too greasy from the pepperoni.  But many love it that way. 

Great job and I always look forward to hearing of your adventures in pizzamaking.

                                                                                                  --BTB

P.S. When you have a pan that is 2" deep, most people do not enter 2" in the section that says "How far up the side of the pan will the dough go?"  Instead most will enter 1.5" or something less than 2".  I think your entering 2" was the reason for an increased amount of dough.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #243 on: February 13, 2010, 11:35:29 AM »
Norma,

BTB's explanation in his PS is correct. BTB's thickness factor after using a bowl residue compensation of 1.5% is 0.126875. The difference between that value and the value you used without a bowl residue compensation, that it, 0.1275723, is de minimus. What made the difference in your case is that you used 2", not 1 1/2", as the depth of the skin when placed in your pan.

I agree with BTB on the looks of your pizza. Did you bake the pizza in your home oven or at market in your deck oven?

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #244 on: February 13, 2010, 11:47:55 AM »
BTB,

Since Norma used durum flour for her version of your pizza and posted here, I thought I would post here also on the durum/semolina issue.

I have always viewed durum as being a species of wheat and semolina as the ground endosperm of the durum wheat. Semolina flour is not a distinct species, like whole wheat or rye flour. It comes only from the endosperm of durum wheat. That is consistent with what I have read on Wikipedia about durum wheat, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durum, and on semolina, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semolina. I suppose the fineness of the semolina characterizes it as fine or coarse. Assuming that what Norma used was durum flour, and that the bag was properly labeled, then I believe she would have gotten the endosperm also. No doubt, there is a lot of mislabeling going on with durum and semolina, with little likelihood of anyone being around to clarify what your really have on your hands.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #245 on: February 13, 2010, 01:06:09 PM »
BTB,

Coming from a master of deep-dish pizzas, I really appreciated you saying the Malnati Deep Dish looked fantastic.  :)  I wish you could also taste the pie.  Then I would  know if this is how the pizza is supposed to taste. 

In the other thread you are referring to, these are the two replies I gave:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10267.msg90124.html#msg90124 and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10267.msg90185.html#msg90185

This is the third kind of pizza I have made using different durum flours.  The one was at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg88349.html#msg88349 and the 2nd one was at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg89503.html#msg89503

Both of these pizzas turned out okay using the durum flour. 

I made a Giordanoís Stuffed Crust at, but didnít use durum flour for that pizza. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10018.msg87298.html#msg87298  This is the formula I used for the Giordano's Stuffed Crust. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5674.msg69607.html#msg69607

I only have these two Chicago deep-dish pies to compare.  Although these two pizzas crusts are different I enjoyed both of the pies.  I think I like the Malnati Deep Dish better though, in terms of the taste of the crust. 

Your pie has inspired me to try more.

Thanks so much,

Norma

Peter,

Thanks for saying you agree with BTB about this Malnati Deep Dish.  I baked this pie in my home oven.

I have three kinds of durum flour here at home right now.  One Warren gave me at Warrenís Bread Baking Demo at Fredís Music. He purchased that one at Echo Foods. Another one that I used for this recipe, that was purchased by Bob1 and I bought from him at the Bread Demo.  That was purchased at Bova Foods.  The other one is the one my daughter purchased for me in Queens, New York.  That one is Divella Durum Wheat Semolina.  Matt had said he uses a different brand of this flour that is finer than mine. 

I do believe all these durum flours can become confusing, but they have all worked out okay for me in making different pizzas.  ::)

Thanks,

Norma
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 06:51:30 AM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #246 on: February 13, 2010, 01:36:12 PM »
I anyone is interested is seeing the durum flour I used  in the Malanti Deep Dish recipe by BTB, this is a picture of the flour.

Norma
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Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #247 on: February 13, 2010, 03:43:57 PM »
I would think the durum would perform similarly within the dough.  However the picture you posted looks a little more "powdery" or "floury" than what I expect to see from semolina. 

But if the pizza came out tasting good, that's all that counts. :)

Thanks for sharing.  ;D

-ME
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 03:47:09 PM by Mad_Ernie »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #248 on: February 13, 2010, 04:32:02 PM »
I would think the durum would perform similarly within the dough.  However the picture you posted looks a little more "powdery" or "floury" than what I expect to see from semolina. 

But if the pizza came out tasting good, that's all that counts. :)

Thanks for sharing.  ;D

-ME


Mad_Ernie,

The pizza did taste good.  We just had a reheated slice in the oven.  It is still good.  :)
Two more slices to go.

Thanks,

Norma


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Offline RoughMix

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #249 on: February 14, 2010, 09:30:13 AM »
I've been trying for years to make a good Chicago style pizza at home. Thanks to BTB and everyone who contributes to this forum. I can't believe that I didn't find this forum earlier.

I made my first BTB-inspired Malnati's style pizza last weekend. Unfortunately, my crust came out very dry. I believe I've missed something in this long thread. I used this dough formulation and these instructions:

Flour (100%):  202.88 g  |  7.16 oz | 0.45 lbs
(AP Flour = 152.16 g and Semolina = 50.72 g)
Water (47%):  95.35 g  |  3.36 oz | 0.21 lbs
ADY (.7%):  1.42 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.38 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):  12.17 g | 0.43 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.71 tsp | 0.9 tbsp
Corn Oil (18.5%):  37.53 g | 1.32 oz | 0.08 lbs | 8.34 tsp | 2.78 tbsp
Butter/Margarine (1%):  2.03 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):  3.04 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.76 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Cream of Tartar (.75%):  1.52 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.51 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
Total (175.45%): 355.95 g | 12.56 oz | 0.78 lbs | TF = 0.126875

I mixed the semolina and salt with the KAAP, but withheld 1/4 cup of the KAAP.  I added the water with the previously proofed
ADY, mixed with a wooden spoon and by hand, covered and let rest for around 25 minutes in a warm part of the kitchen. 
Then I added the rest of the flour along with the oil and the small amount of melted and cooled butter. 
After kneading for a very short time (est. 1 min.), I found I needed a teaspoon or two more of KAAP, and then put the
formed dough ball into a ziplock bag and into the refrigerator for 24 hours.


Using 3.36 oz. of water (which I used to proof the yeast), I could barely get my dough into a ball, so I added another ounce of water and followed the instructions as shown above.

The crust, while edible, was very dry and crumbly. Should I be proofing the yeast separate from the 3.36 oz. of water? Or am I missing something else?

BTB, can you help?

Thanks.


Offline PizzaHog

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #250 on: February 14, 2010, 12:05:59 PM »
Hey Rough
When I first tried this style I ended up with similar results.  It turned out to be caused just by overbaking.  Although it seems many bake these for up to 28 mins, in my case 24 mins does the trick. 
Not sure if this might the case for you but thought it worth a mention.
The real experts on this style may have more to offer.
Hog

Offline RoughMix

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #251 on: February 15, 2010, 09:03:10 AM »
Thanks for the idea, PizzaHog. I might have baked it too long, about 27 minutes, but I knew that the dough was dry before I let it rest the first time.

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #252 on: February 15, 2010, 09:39:57 AM »
I'm admittedly a little puzzled about your experience, RoughMix.  Usually the mixture of all the ingredients here results in a pretty good dough ball that's just about right, and on some occasions for some reason, it even turns out a little too oily a dough ball.  Norma used a similar or essentially the same recipe lately and shared a picture of the dough ball with us in Reply #235 above (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg90048.html#msg90048).  Did yours look like hers?  What you described as "crumbly" crust after baking I'm not certain of.  That's not how the baked dough generally is, except a small amount of flakiness to the crust would be highly desired.

I would suggest skipping the autolyse (rest) procedure until you get other aspects of deep dish dough down pat.  Mix all the dry ingredients and then wet ones together and then see how it goes.  I do use separately about 1 to 2 ounces of water into a shot glass, microwave it gently until it reaches 100 to 110 degrees F, add the ADY, and let proof for 10 minutes before adding to the mixture.  I then add the rest of the water (which I prefer cold).  But it's OK I guess if one proofs the yeast in the total amount of water as you did, so that shouldn't have affected it as you mentioned.

I really like the hydration for deep dish crusts to be in the range of 45 to 48%.  If you actually put another ounce of water in for a 9" pie, that raised it to over 60% which is unchartered territory for deep dish dough in my experience .  But your dry and "crumbly" characterization throws me for a loop in a way.  With all this oil, I can't imagine the dough being dry.  There are many good recipes on this site, so you can look forward to a lot of fun experiences seeing which ones suits your tastes and needs.  Share some good pictures and we may be better able to comment on the results.

                                                                                       --BTB
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 09:42:31 AM by BTB »

Offline firefly765

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #253 on: February 15, 2010, 10:31:22 AM »

Roughmix,
Just a question. Did you add all the oil? Because you don't mention adding the oil in your mixing instructions. The dough would be verry dry w/o the oil. Just thought maybe you overlooked that.



Using 3.36 oz. of water (which I used to proof the yeast), I could barely get my dough into a ball, so I added another ounce of water and followed the instructions as shown above.

The crust, while edible, was very dry and crumbly. Should I be proofing the yeast separate from the 3.36 oz. of water? Or am I missing something else?

BTB, can you help?

Thanks.

Offline firefly765

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina (adding mushrooms)
« Reply #254 on: February 15, 2010, 01:36:33 PM »
Did not get this in time. Mushrooms went in raw, i used Jimmy Dean italian sausage, and mixed Gouda cheese with mozzerella. was a little "soupy". All these things were not as good as before. However, the silver cake pans & 450F oven cook were awesome for the crust! My wife special ordered me some 6 in 1 tomatoes for Valentine's Day (she knows the way to my heart)! So next time I'll try to get a better overall product. Not bad at all though. attaching pics.


Hi Firefly,

I precook the sliced mushrooms in a small amount of olive oil and with some minced garlic.  I cook them past the point of giving off moisture and to the point where they're fairly dry.  Mushrooms contain a lot of water and would result in a soggy 'za.

Good luck with the new pans!  Are you going to try the lower (450 F) temperature as well?

Michelle (doing my first Glutenboy recipe NY style tonight...)

Offline RoughMix

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #255 on: February 15, 2010, 03:05:56 PM »
Yes, I did add all of teh oil but I believe I misunderstood these directions:

I mixed the semolina and salt with the KAAP, but withheld 1/4 cup of the KAAP.  I added the water with the previously proofed ADY, mixed with a wooden spoon and by hand, covered and let rest for around 25 minutes in a warm part of the kitchen. Then I added the rest of the flour along with the oil and the small amount of melted and cooled butter.
After kneading for a very short time (est. 1 min.), I found I needed a teaspoon or two more of KAAP, and then put the formed dough ball into a ziplock bag and into the refrigerator for 24 hours.


Using 3.36 oz of water, I could not get my dough into a ball for the autolyse procedure. I had way too much residual flour. So I added more water to make the dough moist enough to form a ball. After resting for 25 minutes, I added the oil.

My dough looked similar to Norma's, after adding the oil, but it crumbled more like a sugar cookie than a pizza crust.

So, you proof your yeast in 1-2 oz. of water but your total water does not exceed 3.36 oz. or whatever amount would hydrate the crust in the range of 45 to 48%?

I grew up eating deep dish at Gino's East on Superior and learned to love Malnati's on visits to relatives after becoming an adult. I've lived in Texas for 27 years and have dabbled with pizza crusts for the last few years. My passion is fueled by cravings and the lack of quality pizza here.

I'll be trying again this weekend and I'll share some pictures.

I appreciate everyone's help.

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #256 on: February 16, 2010, 10:13:17 AM »
the silver cake pans & 450F oven cook were awesome for the crust!
Darker pans are highly recommended for a number of reasons set out in these threads, but on the other hand the color of your crust looked just fine.  It'll just get better and better as you get more experience under your belt (or is it into your stomach?).

So, you proof your yeast in 1-2 oz. of water but your total water does not exceed 3.36 oz. or whatever amount would hydrate the crust in the range of 45 to 48%?
Yes.  So if one used 1 oz. of water to proof the yeast, you would then add an additional 2.36 oz of water.  It's just a personal preference but I like the additional water to be real cold.  I often add just a couple of tenths (roughly calculated) of water as some of the water always remains in the glass or container after its poured out.  It's a judgment thing.  Good luck and have fun.
                                                                                                 
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Offline orlando pizza man 1

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #257 on: February 18, 2010, 12:22:34 PM »
firefly those look great! How do you like the taste? I think that this is the closest I have come to the original taste of Malnati's ever. Here are a piece of mine from last night- These were taken this morning before lunch.

Offline firefly765

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #258 on: February 18, 2010, 04:13:21 PM »

Very good. I'm trying a new pie tonight with 6 in 1 sauce, sausage & spinach. A new crust formula including shortening in place of lots of the oil to try to get a more biscuity taste. I really like this crust formula though so i don't know why I'm experimenting. Just my nature to tinker i guess.


firefly those look great! How do you like the taste? I think that this is the closest I have come to the original taste of Malnati's ever. Here are a piece of mine from last night- These were taken this morning before lunch.

Offline orlando pizza man 1

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #259 on: February 19, 2010, 09:25:04 AM »
firefly- Sounds like a good combination with the new toppings. Let us know how it comes out. Looking forward to the next pictures.


 

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