Author Topic: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina  (Read 162914 times)

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Offline ERASMO

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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #281 on: March 04, 2010, 10:09:28 AM »
I made one of the frozen Lou Malnati's frozen pizzas last night that I recently ordered and received along with the Malnati Dough mentioned above.  The dough will remain in the freezer until we consume some of the pies.  My wife and I loved the pizza as it had been some time since we had a "Lou's" from their pizzeria.  It isn't as good as that in the pizzeria itself, but for us Malnati's pizza lovers who are far, far away from their pizzerias, it is "the next best thing."  I'm not promoting it's purchase as it's a little pricey, but here are some quick thoughts on cooking their frozen pizzas for those who may want to try one.

Keep frozen in their containers inside the plastic wrap.  If you take off the plastic wrap prematurely, a lot of frost may settled all around the pizza, which may possibly affect taste later.  In preparing to cook one, take the frozen pizza out of the aluminum/tin pan (not sure what its made of) and with a paper towel wipe the moisture and frost out of the bottom of the pan.  This is critical as the pizza may not come out well without one doing this.  Then let the aluminum pan air dry for 2 to 4 minutes while you take a small knife and scrape off any frost on the bottom and top of the frozen pizza over the sink.  Put approx. 1/2 Tbsp (or more) of olive oil in the bottom of the pan and coat the bottom of the pan thoroughly.  I use a piece of wax paper to do this with.  Put the frozen pizza back into the pan and put into the refrigerator for 2 to 4 hours (instructions say 2, but I prefer 3 to 4).  Take out 1/2 hour before cooking and leave on the counter while you heat the oven to 425 degrees F.  If you can't wait, the pizza can be cooked from a complete frozen state and still turn out good, but the removal of moisture and oiling of the pan is critical. 

The instructions say bake on the middle rack, but I recommend putting on a rack level one step down from the middle of the oven, or even lower to ensure a more crisp crust.  The instructions say to bake for 35 to 45 minutes, and I baked the one last night for 36 minutes and it was excellent.  My wife and I really enjoyed the taste of Lou's again.  The first three pictures below are of the frozen uncooked pizza and the 4th is after it was baked.

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #282 on: March 04, 2010, 10:12:48 AM »
Note that Lou's aluminum pans for baking the frozen pizzas are now a dark black color on the outside of the pan.  This, I assume, is to absorb the heat rather than reflect it, which is a good thing.  And note that the pizza crust seems to be a little par-baked.
 
Two things that I will do just slightly different next time is cook it a little longer -- say 45 minutes -- and loosely put a sheet of aluminum foil over the pan for only about 10 minutes (to slow down top browning) while cooking it in the oven.  I remembered too late that in the past I had often undercooked the first pizza from a box as the top and edges of the pizza looked pretty much done, but in fact the crust in the center underneath still could have been cooked a little bit longer.  So cooking a little longer than one may think is often best with this.
                                                                                                  --BTB

Offline jimmy33

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #283 on: March 04, 2010, 11:57:45 AM »
BTB
 When You have a moment can you please answer post 276 ? After you knead the dough what do you do? Thanks Jimmy

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #284 on: March 04, 2010, 02:59:09 PM »
Do you still use rice flour and if so , how would you adjust the dough calculation that Pete posted above? Do you put the salt together with the ADY in 110 degree water to proof? Also After you pull it out of the fridge how long do you leave it out and do you punch the dough down at all?
Oh yes, my taste testers have a preference for the pizza dough with a small degree (8%) of rice flour.  That's optional according to one's tastes.  In Peter's formulation above, that would mean 53.4 g of rice flour (8%), 80.1 g of semolina (12%), 534 g of AP (80%).  Most authorities advise NOT to put salt in the water that's used to proof the yeast as it can have an inhibiting affect on the yeast.  And I follow that advise closely.

When the dough is refrigerated (which I do less and less of), I pull it out 1 to 1 and 1/2 hours before baking.  I don't punch it down when either in the refrigerator or after taking it out of the refrigerator, but only in the first few hours after putting together all the ingredients.  And then I do so several times before refrigerating, like every hour or two.

I've been doing more and more "same day dough," though.  After a brief knead, I put the covered dough into a very slightly warmed oven (90 to 100 degrees) for 3/4 to one hour, take out, punch it down, cover again and leave on the counter and over the course of several hours (oh, maybe up 5 or 7 hours) punch it down 2 or 3 times more before rolling or pressing it out in preparation for putting it into the pan, dressing and baking the pizza.

Hope your efforts go well.  We'd like to see that big pizza and how well it cooks up.

                                                                                                                                   --BTB

Offline DKM

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #285 on: March 04, 2010, 09:54:07 PM »
Note that Lou's aluminum pans for baking the frozen pizzas are now a dark black color on the outside of the pan.  This, I assume, is to absorb the heat rather than reflect it, which is a good thing.  And note that the pizza crust seems to be a little par-baked.
 
Two things that I will do just slightly different next time is cook it a little longer -- say 45 minutes -- and loosely put a sheet of aluminum foil over the pan for only about 10 minutes (to slow down top browning) while cooking it in the oven.  I remembered too late that in the past I had often undercooked the first pizza from a box as the top and edges of the pizza looked pretty much done, but in fact the crust in the center underneath still could have been cooked a little bit longer.  So cooking a little longer than one may think is often best with this.
                                                                                                  --BTB

One problem I've had with mine is near the end a lot of moisture from the tomatoes started coming out and going down one of the lower sides of the pizza.  This cause that part of the cust to get soggy and stick a little. (yes I oiled the pan first)
I'm on too many of these boards

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #286 on: March 05, 2010, 10:05:43 AM »
One problem I've had with mine is near the end a lot of moisture from the tomatoes started coming out and going down one of the lower sides of the pizza.  This cause that part of the cust to get soggy and stick a little. (yes I oiled the pan first)
Dev, I, too did have a somewhat similar issue with the pizza I showed above in that I noticed a little too much unidentified moisture near the crust edge in the cooked pizza as I removed it from the oven.  (You can notice that a little on the bottom of the pizza in the 4th photo above.) That occasionally happened to me in the long ago past with their frozen pizzas, but then disappeared in my experience for a couple of years.  I don't know the source, maybe the tomatoes, but what I learned in the past to do -- and what I did the other night -- was to quickly take a couple of paper napkins out and with the edges of the napkin quickly attempt to absorb much of that moisture/liquid on the pizza (before cutting).  I was careful not to mess up the looks (aesthetics?  ha, ha) of the pizza.  I didn't get it all, but I think most of it and it worked out fine.  The edge of the crust and about 2 to 3 inches inward were all especially crispy and crunchy as I remembered the great Malnati's deep dish pizza to be.

After cutting it on the cutting board, I did not thereafter have a soggy crust anywhere and my wife and I am super sensitive in disliking any degree of sogginess.  But in the past, I had been a little critical of too many soggy pizzas from their frozen pizzas, but I thought their formula and new instructions improved that considerably.  We need to give them feedback that there are still some excessive moisture issues.

Sogginess in the past for me existed prior to their new instructions to remove the moisture and oil the pan (sides, too).  I remember about 7 or 8 years ago down in south Florida we cooked up about 10 of these pizzas at one time and about half of them were stuck solidly to the bottom of the pan and could only be extracted in pieces.  But in all honesty, that was before the instructions said to remove moisture and oil the pans.  We just threw them into the oven as is.  But as you indicated, you oiled the pan, so it should not have been sticking to it.  I'll be looking at that more closely when cooking the remaining pizzas from my freezer.  Do you have any left?

To others, tho, I just want to stress -- as indicated in one of my points in the prior posting -- is to cook the frozen (or semi-frozen) pizza just a little longer than one might think is necessary and consider the short-time foil "cover" technique.  The reason for considering using the aluminum foil cover technique for just 5 or 10 minutes is that you don't otherwise look at the cooked pizza and see that it appears so well done and take it out prematurely before the crust adequately has time to bake.  Just FWIW.

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Offline jimmy33

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #287 on: March 05, 2010, 11:27:02 AM »
BTB
 On the refrigerated dough , do you let it rise first for 5-6 hours after you knead it and then put it in the fridge and then pull it out and let it rise for an additional 90 minutes?  I just want't to get that crust looking like yours. :chef:

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #288 on: March 05, 2010, 01:13:39 PM »
Jimmy33, in the early days of my pizzamaking, which was just a couple of years ago, I would let it rise once and after an hour or so (roughly) put it into a plastic bag or covered bowl and refrigerate it either overnight or as long as two days.  So under that scenario it would go into the refrigerator within an hour or two of mixing together. 

I think -- as just an option only -- to let it rise and knock it down several times over several hours before refrigerating has been preferable lately, but if that's not convenient skip and go straight to the refrigerator.  You will generally experience little to no visible rise in the refrigerator, but that is often normal.  Some mix and go straight to the refrigerator immediately after mixing and have been successful with doing that.  I think it preferable to wait 4 - 6 hours to refrigerate, but sooner can work, too.

And take the dough out of the refrigerator and bake within 60 to 90 minutes.  Many of us are anxious to see your pizza, so please get your camera ready.  It's all a learning experience, so don't worry.

                                                                                         --BTB


Offline jimmy33

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #289 on: March 05, 2010, 05:41:02 PM »
Thanks BTB


Offline tpassin

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #290 on: March 06, 2010, 01:59:40 PM »
BTB
 On the refrigerated dough , do you let it rise first for 5-6 hours after you knead it and then put it in the fridge and then pull it out and let it rise for an additional 90 minutes?  I just want't to get that crust looking like yours. :chef:

I just did my first outing using info from this site, and it came out great.  My friend, after eating leftovers this morning, called it "addictive".  Even though it's been almost 40 years since I left Chicago, this pizza measures up to what I remember - at least, it fills that void that's been missing a real Chicago deep-dish pie.

I'll give some details below (sorry, no pix), but for Jimmy - I made my dough with a 15% seminola/AP blend, and I used a sourdough starter instead of commercial yeast.  Going on my bread-baking experience, I let the bulk dough ferment at room temperature (70 deg F) for maybe 6 or 8 hours, then bagged it and put it into the refrigerator until the next afternoon.  I didn't knead it or punch it down after the initial hand kneading.

When I brought the dough out, it was airy and showed a lot of nice holes.  I let it warm up for an hour and a half, then patted it out into a disk.  I put the disk into my oiled 12-inch cast iron skillet and worked the dough out by hand.  The dough had a lovely feel and spread out very well.  Bringing it up the sides, it did have a mild tendency to retract, but a few minutes of rest took care of that.  I wasn't sure how thick the crust should be, and I ended up with some leftover dough, but the end result seemed about perfect.

I scaled the dough ingredients from Pete-zza's 15-inch recipe at

topic,6480.msg71513.html#msg71513

(sorry, the forum software won't let me insert a full url here)

Here are the scaled amounts -

                       12-inch Pizza      
Ingredient  Baker's |Oz|Tsp
            Percent
flour       100.0%|10.9      
water       47.0% | 5.1      
yeast       (0.7%)|  -  | .6   
salt        (0.5%) |   -  | .3   
olive oil   6.0% | .65      
corn oil    18.5% |2.0      
butter      (1%) |    -   | .6   
sugar       (1.5%) | -   |1.2

The flour was a blend with 15% Bob's Red Mill seminola.  I put the baker's percentages for the teaspoon amounts in parentheses, because I'm not convinced that the conversions from % to tsp are right.  Pete-zza's recipe also had cream of tartar, but I left it out.

For the sourdough (no commercial yeast), I used 3 oz of a 100% hydration starter, and I cut back on the water to compensate for the water in the starter.

For the sauce, I cooked the recipe from the Cook's Illustrated deep dish article (Jan-Feb 2010), using a can of organic ground tomatoes I found at a good price.  The sauce has onion, garlic, oregano, and basil, and olive oil in it.  I drained the tomatoes with a strainer and cooked the sauce down til it was thick, so I didn't end up with a soggy crust.  For cheese, I sliced half a pound of buffalo mozzarella, and about the same of imported provelone.  On top of the cheese, I spread the sausage from three big links of mild italian chicken sausage (my friend eats chicken but wouldn't eat pork sausage), then the sauce, then a few pieces of the sausage links and grated parmesiano reggiano.

To bake, I put the skillet right onto my baking stone - I have a double layer of stone for baking bread, and it's too much trouble to take out if I don't have to.  From a preheat of 500 deg F, I set the temperature to 450 and baked for 25 minutes.  I had the convection fan on, but I doubt that made any difference.  At the end of the 25 minutes, the crust that I could see was a nice medium golden brown, and I took the pie out of the oven.

Next time, I'll probably go to 25% seminola, just to see if I like the difference, and maybe cook it a little darker (not that it *needed* any improvement!).

So thanks, Pete-zza and everyone else for sharing your knowledge so freely!

Tom

Offline scottm

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #291 on: March 08, 2010, 09:50:49 AM »
I'm new to Chicago style pizza but gave it a try this weekend. Please excuse the cheese on top - I wanted to make sure it would go over well with the family!

Even though the crust doesn't look quite as brown as other pizzas here I consider it a success! Taste was great, crust was moderately crisp and the depth of the pie was new to myself and my family (the only other deep pizza i've even had was a Pizza Hut Priazzo a number of years ago). I attribute the lack of browning to the minimal rest period after making the dough. It was only in the fridge for maybe 10 hours and I was rather impatient about letting the oven get to and stay at temperature for an extended period. I did place the cast iron pan on a pizza stone to help with heat transfer though.

Thanks for this great recipe! I did it again Sunday afternoon for some friends and they were completely wowed by it!

Scott
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 10:59:43 AM by scottm »

Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #292 on: March 09, 2010, 08:20:53 AM »
Scott, personally I think the color is just fine.  I would be more inclined to tell you that the lack of browning that you were looking for came from pulling the pie out a bit early.  That's part of what happens when you top with cheese.  That cheese browns up so you get it out as you don't want the cheese to burn but the rest of the pie may not be cooked to the level you'd like when you have to yank it from the oven.

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Offline Aldo

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #293 on: March 20, 2010, 11:24:00 PM »
Hey BTB - we must have been on the same page!  I too had jonesed for a Malnati's and also recently had a 'Lou-to-go' shipped to the house.  It was that taste -- not the absolute best thing n the world, but it had that distinctly wonderful Lou malnati taste!  (Agreed, nothing beats sitting in the Lincolnwood dining room enjoying a fresh pie with the ambiance of Bears uniforms hanging nxt to you, but frozen in the mail is stil a treat.)  I wish I'd have followed your suggestions - but I hadn't noticed this thread until now.  How funny we both were having the Lou-to-go thing at about the same time, though!

I expect to be trying a 30# box of Grande 50/50 mozz/prov shredded soon, and I'll report on the flavor in both stuffed and thin adventures in the weeks ahead - hopefully with pictures!

Thanks you all,

A

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #294 on: April 23, 2010, 01:23:54 AM »
hi,

i want to try my hand at a Malnati's pie, but i'm not sure what the "best" recipe is.  I've done some searching, and there seem to be several different recipes.  can anyone point me towards the "best" recipe?  Also, the first post in this tread refers to the "malnati's thread" but I don't know to which thread that refers, since there are so many of 'em  :chef:

thanks

Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #295 on: April 23, 2010, 07:29:53 AM »
Here's the earliest mention of semolina that BTB refers to in the first post of this thread:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2403.msg54563.html#msg54563

Loo
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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #296 on: April 23, 2010, 08:34:24 AM »
. . . i'm not sure what the "best" recipe is.
"Best" is always relative.  Reflecting my most current preference, here's a recipe that I used recently for a 14" diameter straight-sided pan that is 2" deep, the dough going up the side 1.5", a TF of .125 and a 1.5% bowl residue:
 
Flour (100%):  436.26 g  |  15.39 oz | 0.96 lbs
Water (45%):  196.32 g  |  6.92 oz | 0.43 lbs
ADY (.75%):  3.27 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.87 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
Salt (1%):  4.36 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.78 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):  26.18 g | 0.92 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.82 tsp | 1.94 tbsp
Corn Oil (12%):  52.35 g | 1.85 oz | 0.12 lbs | 11.63 tsp | 3.88 tbsp
Butter/Margarine (6%):  26.18 g | 0.92 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.53 tsp | 1.84 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):  6.54 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.64 tsp | 0.55 tbsp
Total (172.25%): 751.45 g | 26.51 oz | 1.66 lbs | TF = 0.126875
    *The Flour Blend can be (1) all KAAP flour, or (2) 80% KAAP (349 g/12.3 oz.) and
      20% semolina (87.25 g/3 oz.), or (3) 80% KAAP (349 g/12.3 oz.), 12% semolina
      (52.35 g/1.85 oz.) and 8% rice flour (34.9 g/1.23 oz.)
Note: 1/2 tsp of Baker's NFDM was added, but is optional (used for color and tender crust affect)
 
While I generally use King Arthur AP flour, that's just a personal choice.  I generally bake on a low rack for 35 to 45 minutes at around 450 degrees F, but that depends on the characteristics of one's oven.  The butter component can either be melted and cooled or very soft and mixed in.  And of course avoid overworking the dough.  Like with many things, it's worth experimenting with the various ingredients to see what you like.

                                                                                 --BTB

Online FLAVORMAN

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #297 on: April 24, 2010, 02:29:09 PM »
BTB,
Just read your last post using butter ect. Could you give me some hints on working the dough? I hand mix for a few minutes if that, bench rise for 2-3 hours put in frig overnight, punch down and bench rise 3 hours or so until room temp, punch down again and put in pan.  Am I over working the dough?  thanks for any help and your semolina idea sometime ago is the best..

Offline vcb

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #298 on: April 24, 2010, 03:14:51 PM »
BTB,
Just read your last post using butter ect. Could you give me some hints on working the dough? I hand mix for a few minutes if that, bench rise for 2-3 hours put in frig overnight, punch down and bench rise 3 hours or so until room temp, punch down again and put in pan.  Am I over working the dough?  thanks for any help and your semolina idea sometime ago is the best..

I'm sure BTB will have his own answer for this,
but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth and say...
 
Everything sounds right except the 2nd and 3rd rise after the refrigeration is probably not necessary.
Getting the dough up to room temp before baking is probably the most you'll want to do after the overnight ferment in the fridge. Most times, I press the dough out into the pan before it even gets to room temp.
-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #299 on: April 28, 2010, 10:03:15 AM »
Flavorman, Ed's comments about not overworking the dough are right on in my estimation.  I generally always handmix and knead by hand and do the mixing and kneading for around 1 or 1 and 1/2 minutes to a max. of around 4 to 5 minutes.  If the dough comes together nicely without it being too oily, I'll just knead for 1 and 1/2 minutes to 2 minutes.  But if it seems too oily (which unpredictably often happens), I'll continue on for several minutes more and/or add a bit of flour to get the dough to the state that it should be (not too oily).  Trial and error is best here.  I only punch down any rise once or twice (or more) BEFORE refrigeration and never afterwards.  And (again) I am doing less and less refrigeration of pizza dough as I've found "same day" dough in recent trials to be as good or better, at least to me, but try it both ways and see.  It's a personal preference thing.     --BTB