Author Topic: Wood pizza oven design philosophy  (Read 37527 times)

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Offline Randy

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Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« on: November 09, 2004, 11:08:48 AM »
I have been studying pictures of wood burning pizza ovens to understand the design philosophy.  Two features are paramount; the dome height and the location of the chimney.  The dome height is also tied to the chimney.  

The dome holds the heat from the fire as if you cupped your hands above a candle.  This cupping effect can also affect the ability of the fire to breath.  Something I have leaned from my barbecue pits.

The chimney location varies on the bakers taste.  Some vent to the side or to the back to minimize the smoke being pulled across the pizza while others use the chimney to pull the smoke directly over the pizza for a smoky flavor.

I found this site and thought the design interesting.
http://www.pizzacart.net

Hope to build it after Thanksgiving.

Randy


Offline DKM

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Re:Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2004, 08:30:32 PM »
That design looks like it would be a good multi-tasker.

Is that what you considering?

DKM
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Offline Randy

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Re:Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2004, 01:20:38 PM »
Pizza or bread would probably be about it DKM.  The nature of it makes for limited use.  It will have a cooking area around 18"X 12" leaving the fire a space around 18"X16".  I could reduce the size down by burning the fire in cooking area then cleaning it free of ash and then use the residual heat to bake pizzas with out a continuing fire.  I would think you could bake several 9" pizzas considering the cooking time to be around 3 min each.


Randy

Offline DKM

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Re:Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2004, 01:46:06 PM »
That sounds about right on the pizza and timing.

I know people who cook steaks, and other dishes, in wood burning ovens, but not sure how they it.  I know one guy puts the steaks on metal plates.

DKM
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Offline FornoBravo

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2005, 06:13:14 AM »
I am really into brick ovens. The first thing that is important is to build a round oven, with a spherical dome. It is efficient with wood, heats up fast and puts even heat down on your pizza. The next time you are in a wood-fired oven pizzeria, look in the dome -- it's very fun to watch the fire dance in the curved dome.

There are two types of dome height. The Naples oven is lower, while the Tuscan ovens are higher. The Naples style is said to be better for pizza, while the higher dome better for bread and roasting, but both really work well.

A front opening and vent is traditional, and works best.

The smallest oven you want to use is about 30" round. I put in a 26" oven once to test it out, and it was too small for the fire and pizza. Also, the opening was too large relative to the volume of the oven, so it did not hold heat well.

You can cook anything in a brick oven. We did Thanksgiving Turkey, Capon and roasts this holiday season, and they come out great. The retained heat cooks with moist heat (no fire in the oven), which cooks quickly, and lets your food stay moist. You can also grill inside the oven with a free-standing steel grill. Coals below, and heat above at the same time. Excellent.

We are collecting brick oven recipes and have posted a set a free plans to build a real Italian brick oven. Go to http://www.fornobravo.com. Click on the Pompeii Oven link. The plans and recipes are free, and there is a  Yahoo! user group.

Take a look.
FB

Rob

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2005, 09:05:02 PM »
      Thanks James, I am trying to catch you here, you really are a round oven fan :)

      I am little confused about which design I should go for. Luckily we have another 3 months till spring before building can actually start, I really want to have things clear coz the material is expensive work is involved and timely well the oven should be with us for ever and not to waste all the efforts :)

      I am undecided which type of dome construction I should go 4. Is it important to have bricks closely on inside in round dome or holes can be simply filled with mortar? It is visible you have them all nicely in line, but I am not much skilled with bricks :) My work involves mostly research and office and this building is total challenge. By the way in ecology burning wood is exactly equal to leaving woods laying on the ground after damaging storm, disintegrating of these trees in time produces exact results. Downturn of burning in residential areas is more the asthma triggering particles in the air.

      With my colleagues we have done another diagram test in regards of spacing inside the oven. Comparing same raised platform square floor at he back of the oven will give you 24% extra room, this is from the not circled corners so the space in non-round floor is kind of no doubt more useful!

      After absorption in return the heat distributes by radiation within the oven and spreads across by natural law evenly. I would not worry about burning food if placed next to edge coz heat radiation is even everywhere across. Other case is ovens having heat source from electric heating element or gas flame, there is the heat sent from one point and not all round. Any problems there, I am more concerned about choosing right construction methods with fewer difficulties behind a corner.  

      Is it important to have bricks closely one to another on inside in the round dome or holes can be simply filled with mortar? Is the dome silhouette line actually calculated as arch so it is as you said “self-standing”??

Offline FornoBravo

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2005, 03:37:30 AM »
Rob,

I have two ovens in NorCal (in and out) and have installed ovens at both our rental houses in Italy. I feel like the Johnny Appleseed of brick ovens (leaving them behind).

There are three good reasons behind the Italian design (round):

1. The round dome is self-standing (ala the Duomo in Florence), so it does not need a lot of concrete clapping to hold it together. It is lighter and heats up much faster. A round oven will heat in an hour (or less depending on the type), where the heavier ovens take 2-3 hours, or more. That means you are burning more wood (which isn't good for the environment or your pocketbook). For me, the heat time is the difference between using my oven after work, or not. Round oven users fire their ovens a couple of times a week, and I know bread oven owners that never fire their ovens.

2. With a round oven you have room for your fire on one side, and food/pizza on the other side and in the back. It's all reachable. With a 32x36 rectangular oven, there isn't a good place for the fire. If you put it on the side, you have very little room on the side, and the back is lost. If you put it in the back, the fire doesn't reflect to the front of the oven. A 35" round gives you much more usable space than a 32x36. For all the effort you are going to be putting into this, a 32x36 rectangular oven is a one-pizza oven -- which is a shame.

3. The round, spherical dome does a better job of bouncing heat down to the cooking floor evenly. You can cook pizza everywhere (or roasts and veggies) in the oven, and it cooks evenly. That is how the high volume pizzerias cook all those pizzas. The rectangular oven has a barrel vault, which gives you hot and cool spots, depending where the fire it.

There are also little things, like clean up.

The downside is that you can only bake around 25 loaves of bread from a single firing, not 75. But for a home oven, that works for me. I make more bread than we could ever eat, and give lots away.

There are about a million pizza ovens in Italy, and they are all round. They also have bread ovens for pane cotta a legna, which are barrell vault ovens.

The bricks themselves at stacked on top of each other, so there are few/no mortar joints facing inside the oven. It also looks nice. Take a closer look at the plans, and photos of other builder's ovens, and (if you haven't yet) join the user group. It will be helpful, and we just posting a recipe for roasting a 20lb fresh ham!

http://www.fornobravo.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fornobravo/

James

Willi

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2005, 09:38:37 PM »
Wood oven is what we want for our home. i work as production potter for 25 years and partly use own by group very large wood fired pottery kiln built by 8 maniacs 8 years ago ash does great stoneware glazes

i analyzed the popeii oven dome in fornobravo.com. In the dome section of the site they write “Do not allow space for a mortar joint, as you will be setting the edges of the bricks facing inside the oven flush with each other.” But from experience this is near to impossible task to make igloo dome properly on top not only “closing it” Every clay shrinks 10 percent after water is out, shrinking leave gaps between bricks fell on meat. I can not do such job i want meat! I do not want to cut bricks forever do it bad and loose half! Surely they do not talk about or show this huge problem to us people would say NO. It is not seen on pics the way new builders will notice, people will approach it in later time. THE impossible and difficult is covered with clay what do you do  :-\ > you can buy ready made dome as well when oven is back to ground level. Smart website sell domes too > and i have base done > just refer to THE “Firenze oven” below the Pompeii.

Something else. Today and yesterday we cooked beautiful pizzas at our Italian friends, they actually preferred to build bread oven builders oven for pizza and not round. Before we were accompanied by French guys too, every one loved every one pizza.^-^

Offline FornoBravo

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2005, 10:12:40 AM »
Willi,

These are good points. We have had builders do all the cuts to make it fit, and we have had users pour a round  "plug" from refractory concrete. Either would work.

Refractory oven kits are definitely faster and easier. I installed one, including the stand and stucco in one weekend. They are more than the bricks and mortar, but aren't crazy expensive. The two ovens cook identically. It depends on the owner and how they want to go about it.

I just posted some new photos of the brick work in the dome. Take a look:

http://www.fornobravo.com/pizza_oven_photos/italian_ovens/Colle5.html

FB


Anna

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2005, 05:21:51 PM »
Forno Bravo is commercial business oriented to sell ideas/products brought via web forums, theirs website, very understandable so what?

We too make super pizzas in non round oven and it fires into 850F in one hour and less, We make pizzas for 45 minutes then cook and bake for hours, the oven has perfect even temperature. I don’t know what they thei talk about it like desperate. We fire our oven several times a week. Our neighbors use the same oven for 20 years, it looks pretty we went for the same shape as is much beter and lasts long, we had igloo before it didn’t last long and we did a lot for it. Just one point for beginners igloo brick domes they promot will not last long and are hard to do, it is well know about igloos just look around for your selves. Out of fashion.

Clogging forums. ALA long starters postings with many nonobjective and non backed misleading suggestions. aka one has to be careful what is behind every story when money$ involved. Pompei or ferenze ovens, someone must be joking! In 2005 people want stuff to last to save on energy bills, and not things going to fell down to rubble because making fundamental mistakes!!! But who cares....... as always. But hey, I think they just want to make me feel, and I can see not only me, that we did wrong for our selves. That’s not nice at all. LOL Thankx A

Offline FornoBravo

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2005, 06:32:14 PM »
There were very few choices when I got into this a few years ago. And with all the energy that goes into installing an oven, I do think it is important that new builders try to get it right. That seems fair to me, as the options are quite different.

The plans are completely free and there is a happy community of folks building them. Sorry that I have upset you.

James

Anna

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2005, 04:45:49 PM »
James hi, I am not upset, but thank you. I am more neutral woman, learning from any mistakes as everyone can and relaying on experiences. Pizzas bread we made 5 years ago are not pizzas bread we make today. Thankx a 

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2005, 07:37:57 AM »
A proper neapolitan oven is the best tool to cook a pizza in it. Air circulation and direct heat are the best, notthing compared to another round oven and surely superior to a tunnel oven.

Aversa produce the best oven floor you can find, but they are not the best oven builder in or around Naples. The Master of them all was somebody called Mastro Ernesto (family name Agliarulo) who died 20 years ago. He builded the best ovens in Naples, among the others Trianon's and Port'Alba. The Trianon one for example was built in 1923 and it is still standing today and working beautifully. His two sons (now over 70's years old) are the best now, but they are really, really expensive.

Offline FornoBravo

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2005, 03:31:50 PM »
Hello Pizza Napoletana,

Good points. I just got back from Naples and had a great time. I visited Molino Caputo, and we are going to be making it easier to get Caputo pizza flour in smaller bags. The flour is great. Also met Sig. Pace at Ciro di Santa Brigida and had a great pizza with Enzo Coccio, the pizzaiolo trainer. More to come on that. The Pizza Napoletana folks are committed to 60 second pizza and 900F ovens. Go longer than that and you dry everything out. There are about 1500 pizza ovens in Naples, and an oven typically lasts about 15-20 years. You can buy a Napoli-made oven in the states for about $20K (VPN certified no less).

If you want to build one, we have details on our web site. We also posted photos of a buffalo mozzarello ranch and producer. Lots of fun.

For us mortals, a traditional Italian pizza oven will do.

James

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2005, 06:08:36 PM »
Forno Bravo

Antonio Pace and Enzo Coccia are behind a marketing business. I am indipendednt. Forget about the $20K certified oven. That is marketing crap.

Other then the Agliarulo brothers, there are two more families that are famous in Naples for their ovens:

Natale/Ferrara (brother in Law) that have made the ovens at Brandi, Di Matteo, Gino Sorbillo, Il Pizzaiolo del Presidente and others. www.sfallestimenti.it

De Turris that have made the ovens of Da Michele, Salvo's and other pizzerias.

I am in Naples now, so ask if you need more details

Ciao
« Last Edit: September 16, 2005, 07:40:58 PM by pizzanapoletana »

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2005, 07:37:06 PM »
pizzanapoletana,
Did you bring your camera with you? If so I'm sure we would all like to see photgraphs of your adventure.
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline FornoBravo

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2005, 05:48:08 AM »
Napoletana,

Close, but not quite right. Sig Coccio and Sig Pace come from different sides of the fence. Sig Pace's Vera Pizza Napletana is the business side, and associated with Ciro di Santa Brigida. Sig Coccio is independent. He runs the pizzaiolo training school and has very specifically stayed indepedent and unaligned. I think it's important to keep the facts straight as people's reputations do matter.

Caputo is respected by everyone.

A note on brick oven design for homeowners. You can build a Tuscan style oven without using internal forms. It's a lot easier to build, and unless you are a commerical pizzeria specializing in Pizza Napoletana, it's what you want. The oven dome is a little higher and the arch is more gentle. It's important to note that the Tuscan oven is not a mistake -- it's a style. It's the oven you see in many places in Italy, including my neighborhood in Tuscany. Some refractory oven producers specifically make both styles.

James


Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2005, 07:35:38 PM »
Forno Bravo

I am neapolitan born and raised. I have grown up in the city and I have many friends that are also indipendent (including Da Michele, largely reputed the best pizzeria in Naples)
Enzo Coccia, is a member of the 2 associations, VPN and Associazione Pizzaiuoli Napoletani. I am sure he is a very good pizzamaker and instructor, but his school is not indipendent.
The pizza he teachs, as well as shown in the wood stone website, is the one of the disciplinare, which is the marketing version. The very Old Pizzeria in Naples, make pizza in a different way, particulary higher hydratation and longer fermentation.

The ovens of Tuscany or of other part of Italy, are designed to cook bread, no pizza. The difference is in the fact that bread is cooked without flame, while the pizza need both flame and heat circulation.

Antimo Caputo is a friend, and also a very prepared person. I cannot disclose at the moment the very interesting conversation we had on my research on Traditional pizza vs the disciplinare at the last NYC pizza show.

Unfortunately, I got some family business that just come up, so I won't have time to take pictures in this trip,but Il pizzaiolo made a pretty good service on the other post.

Take care evrybody.




Su Meri

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2005, 08:58:17 PM »
Forno Bravo is correct that Enzo Coccia is no longer associated with the VPN for many of the same reasons you have expresse pizzanapoletana.  He thinks it is much to large and commercialized.  Ask Antimo Caputo he can confirm since he and Enzo are very close.
I recently took Enzo's course.  Enzo was the greatest and never tried to sell me any product and if anything steered me away from the VPN.
I know you are bitter about the VPN and I understand your concerns, but Enzo is not a part of their organization.
Thanks for your help on the other board with the pizza peel, Antimo is sending me one.

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2005, 07:27:53 PM »
Su Meri

Let's put aside the people that cannot reply for themselves (which is not right, and I apologies for my previous posts with Enzo Coccia and Antimo Caputo for that), could you discuss the pizza preparation you have learnt in Italy?

Is it any different form the Italian Ministry document that was submitted at the European parliament?

I will expand my discussion further once I’ll read your reply

Ciao

Marco

Offline Settebello

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2005, 10:15:50 PM »
I will try.  Sorry my screen name changed.  I was logged in as a guest then it wouldn't let me log back in as Su Meri..Oh well.

Point by point here are some of the differences between the ministry document and what I was taught.  The underlined portions will be from the document as translated by someone on this board.


Article 2. Ingredients

The products that provide the base for "Pizza Napoletana" include wheat flour type "00" with the addition of flour type "0" yeast, natural water, peeled tomatoes and/or fresh cherry tomatoes, marine salt, and extra virgin olive oil.


This part suprised me.  Enzo did not use extra virgin oil and many of the famous pizzerias I went to in Napoli did not use olive oil at all but rather seed oil.  Can you explain this a little more Marco?

1) Preparation of the dough:

Blend flour, water, salt and yeast. Pour a liter of water into a mixer, dissolve between the 50 and the 55g of salt, add 10% of the total amount of flour, and then add 3g of hydrated yeast. Start the mixer, and then gradually add 1800 g of flour until you achievement of the desired dough consistency. Combining the ingredients should take 10 minutes.

I learned a little different.  First you can say that in general 1 Litre of water will require between 1.7-1.9 kg of flour but you really can never know because of humidity.  Humidity was a big thing, not just on the day you are making the dough, but you must factor in the amount of water that the particular batch of grains contains.  Basically you must add the right amount of flour which is not an exact amount.  We also did not add 10% of the flour then the yeast.  The salt was dissolved followed directly by the yeast, then the flour was added.  He spent a great deal of time giving us things to look for to tell whether the dough is ready.

2) Dough Rising:

First phase: remove the dough from the mixer, and place it on a surface in the pizzeria where it can be left to rest for 2 hours, covered from a damp cloth. In this manner the dough's surface cannot become harden, nor can it form a crust from the evaporation of the moisture released from the dough. The dough is left for the 2 hour rising in the form of a ball, which must be made by the pizzaiolo exclusively by hand.

This part is different than I was taught although he did talk about this being the way old school pizzaioli still do it in Napoli.  Most in Napoli today, I believe, do it like I was taught which is to let the dought rest for 5-10 minutes then make the individual balls.

Second phase of the dough rising: Once the individual dough balls are formed, they are left in "rising boxes" for a second rising, which lasts from 4 to 6 hours. By controlling storage temperature, these dough balls can then be used at any time within the following 6 hours.
I was taught that an optimal rise is 8 hours.  This is probably the 4-6 mentioned here plus the two that were lost by making the individual balls immediatly.

Pizza Napoletana Marinara:

Using a spoon place 80g of pressed, peeled tomatoes in to the center of the pizza base, then using a spiraling motion, cover the entire surface of the base with the sauce;
Using a spiraling motion, add salt on the surface of the tomato sauce;


I was taught to salt the tomato after it is passed through the mill. 

Chop a thin slice of peeled garlic, and add it to the tomato;
Enzo uses diced garlic not thinly sliced

Article 4. Traditional character

The pizzas most popular and famous in Naples are the"Marinara" created in 1734, and the"Margherita" created in 1796-1810 as an offering to the Queen of Italy during her visit to Naples in 1889. The colors of pizza (tomato, mozzarella and Basil) remember the flag of the Italy.
Enzo spent an entire day on the history of pizza.  Very interesting to learn that the margherita was invented in name only in 1889.  There is written evidence describing a margherita pizza nearly 100 years prior.

Marco,
Overall I was very very happy with my training.  My thought was to take a three week training course on how to make them and be able to come back to America and open a Pizzeria serving true Napoli pizza.  Man was I wrong.  This is an art and takes years and years to master.  I ended up hiring a pizzaiolo from Enzo's pizzeria who is going to come and work for me. 


Offline Settebello

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2005, 10:20:54 PM »
Oh Marco,
I am going to purchase an oven from Rosito Bisani.  I know it's not as ideal as a good one made in Napoli, but for here in the U.S. it seemed like the best option.
What is your opinion of these ovens?
They seem to be one of the only ones available in the U.S that does not have a mouth that is too big.  Also they seem to be good for me in Las Vegas.  The are very insulated and do not release a lot of heat.  No one wants to come in from outside where its 120 degrees into a 100 pizzeria.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2005, 11:19:37 PM »
Settebello,

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for the informative post.

You talk about the type of oil used for Neapolitan pizzas. I assume that the oil, whether olive oil or a seed oil, is used on top of a pizza (in a spiral pattern starting from the center) as it bakes or possibly after baking, but not in the dough itself. Is that so? Is the seed oil a canola oil or grapeseed oil?

As I understand it, the Caputo 00 pizzeria flour is a blend of 00 and 0 (Manitoba?) flours. Is this the flour you will be using in your pizza establishment and, if so, at what level of hydration?

There has been much discussion on this forum on the use of autolyse. I had read that autolyse is sometimes used in the production of Neapolitan doughs but have not been able to confirm this for sure. I see that you were taught to let the dough rest for about 5-10 minutes before forming into dough balls. What is the purpose of that rest period? Would that rest period be considered an "autolyse" as you were taught, even though it is not a "true" autolyse?

Are there any cases where a Neapolitan dough would ever be refrigerated (retarded) under normal circumstances?

Finally, I'd be curious to know what aspect of making Neapolitan pizzas most surprised you that you decided to bring an expert pizzaiolo from Italy--was it the dough management side or the management of the oven?

Peter


Offline Settebello

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2005, 11:51:49 PM »
Thanks Peter,
I just found this board and have sat here for hours looking at all the past posts. 
I am pretty sure that the oil that was being put on the pizza's (I never saw any oil being put in the dough) was sunflower seed oil.  I was very suprised.  Hopefully pizzanapoletana can explain a little more. 

I, hopefully will be using Caputo Red Bag which is Rinforzata and is made from a combination of 4 different grains, if I remember correctly Manitoba was one.  I say hopefully because while the blue bag pizza flour is becoming a little more common alot of distributers still do not carry Red Bag, but I think I have it worked out where I will be able to use it. 

As I understand autolyse, it would not be.  There is no kneading after the short rest period.  I think by American standard they dough would have a high hydration.  By US standard the typical dough is a little wet, they feel this will require less yeast and make for a nicer crust.

Enzo did talk a little about the retarding the dough with refrigeration but usually in cases where you have miscalculated the amount of yeast for the time period allowed.  But not under normal or ideal circumstances.

Boy, I think the whole process required much more artisianship and skill than I expected.  When Enzo, who has been making pizzas for about 30 years, tells me that he messes up about 1 in every 10 batches of dough I realized that three weeks was not going to be enough.  I did struggle with the rotation and extension of the pizzas.  The oven management I feel is a little easier to master but still very difficult.
I think I could have opened up and trained people but I would have served a very mediocre pizza by Napoli standards.  Still would have been better than most if not all of the pizza here in Vegas, but not what I want to do.  I felt the only way to pruduce as close to an actual Napoli style pizza was to bring in a pizzaioli who was passionate about getting it right.


Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Wood pizza oven design philosophy
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2005, 08:31:16 AM »
Ok Settebello

I will follow the order you pose the arguments in the first place. However I was more interested in the making process, then the topping, as there is a lot to talk about the last.

Also as I pointed out before, the translation on this website and other American sites, is wrong in many points.

Anyway:

Many use Sunflower oil, it is true, but this is not the tradition. The fact is the long time ago', when the pizza was exclusive to Naples, the only two fats available in the city were Rendered pork fat and Olive oil from the Sorrento peninsula. The olive oil from the Sorrento peninsula is very mild, and now too expensive, so most pizzeria have turned to sunflower oil both for a mild taste and especially for cost. "Da Michele, which produces the best dough in Naples by any standard, top it with Soya seed oil.... But as I said is because of the mild taste.



The original document talks about dissolving the salt and the yeast in water, directly, without 10 per cent of the flour. It got somehow changed in the last version or translation.
You are right that the amount of flour vary, but 1.7-1.9 it is already too much. .


Tomatoes
Depend of the tomatoes and the rest of ingredients, but most pizzeria add salt at the end, to avoid the pizza being too salty overall (some mozzarella are very salty and you do need to add salt at all).

Garlic
The tradition is to slice it directly with the "spatula", the dough scraper, on the "bancone", work bench. Very few use chopped garlic, and many slice it in advance.


Hystory

You are right, there are evidence of the pizza with Tomatoes, mozzarella and sometimes basil, being made much earlier then the visit of Queen Margherita in 1889. In fact the document say ..."1796-1810". It was known simply as "Pomodoro e Mozzarella". I have to say that the first pizza napoletana was probably made around 1660, without tomatoes, and add very simple topping.


The pizza you have described, in the dough process, is a very standard form of the first disciplinare being published 10 years ago. average 1.8kg flour and 8 hours fermentation. Using the Caputo red, reinforced flour, for only 8 hours, will mean that the pizza will feel heavy on the stomach and hard to digest.
The ancient neapolitan pizza was light and easy to digest, because was made with natural leavening, and with long fermentation, given the chance to let the enzyme simplify both the proteins and starch. This is the tradition, and the only way you will produce an outstanding pizza (better then the average served in Naples).

Ciao

PS Peter
the Caputo flours, are milled from different grain. However if it is a 00 flour, it means is milled to a 00 consistency, it cannot be a mix of 0 and 00.






« Last Edit: September 16, 2005, 07:34:13 PM by pizzanapoletana »