Author Topic: 2Stone high temperature ovens  (Read 51152 times)

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Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2008, 10:02:09 PM »
Canadianbacon.

Real cool site, that "monkeysee" I'm gonna see if they have any free trials on that software and try it out.

SDG,

Can't wait to see some of your master pieces from the 2stone. You'll be getting it as soon as you get back from the "Big Trip" Yeh, by all means keep the gasoline can in the shed. By the way you don't need gas to singe your eyebrows off........just lean into the front of the 2stone too close and you won't have any eyebrows or eyelashes for a while!!

Willard


Offline pwaldman

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2008, 09:29:24 PM »
Willard,

I've been playing around with different flours and temperatures with the 15.5" 2 Stone Oven I got about a month ago.  Initally I have to say I was a bit disappointed but with time, experiments and practice I am now a believer!  My initial disappointment was probably because I was very well satisfied with my home oven results and struggled with adapting to the 2 Stone.  I was really going for the Caputo dough style at high temps and short bakes; it turned out OK but the only one that really loved it was my daughter.  The rest of my family and friends were solid NYC style type of people.  The NY style with KASL turned out well but not particulary better than I could get with my home oven.  Recently I did a mixture with KASL and Caputo that everyone loved!  The outer crust was crisp but very thin and the inside was soft and very flavorful.  The best thing about the oven is how adaptable it is to different needs.  I am now baking between 6250 and 6500 and it only takes about 20 minutes to get there!

Love the 2 Stone, thank you for inventing it.  One comment - I also bought the cart which is very nice but when you move it for any distance it is quite heavy (all your products are very well built!).  I took it upon myself to make a slight modification which you may consider as an option for the future - I added 4" swivel casters with brakes to the solid leg side which always me to very easily move it on flat surfaces and still have the benefit if lifting and going over curbs with the pneumatic tires.  Just food (pizza????) for thought.

Thanks again.

Pete

Offline pwaldman

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2008, 09:44:44 PM »
Forgot to mention that a 14" wooden peel fits perfectly in the opening.  I am able to make a pie right at the 14" limit and have never had a problem unloading and removing.  You have to get to know exactly how far to insert the peel before you start to shake but once you figure that out it works everytime!

Pete

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2008, 02:53:30 PM »
Hi Pete,

Glad to hear you are finding your groove......Initially with all the excitement of being able to reach 900+ with the oven, I spent a lot of time playing around with various doughs in that range. I soon returned to the lower temps I was working with on the original pizza grill. I like the crust better when it is done between 650 and 725, and it is also important to remember that the air is running 150-200 higher than the stone.

I just spent the afternoon yesterday with the owner of a bakery who has the Pizza Pro. She is doing enough Pizza business now that we are adding another oven and converting them to natural gas. She also told me she went through the same experience of the high temps. and settled in at the high 600 to low 700 range. She also says at those temps. she is able to use cornmeal because they like the taste.

She has been at it for 30 years, and her bread is some of the best around. I just brought home some of her rye bread, and it was the best rye I have ever had. I haven't had a chance to sample her pizza lately but I hear it is phenomenal. She says it takes her people 5 years to learn the business, and much of it is in the understanding of gluten, fermentation and heat/baking procedures.

After talking with her yesterday, I got a new understanding of what oil does in the high heat baking process and I am going to start adding it to my dough. I have a lot to learn yet but I'm having fun.

Your idea about the swivel casters is great. Even though we try to keep the weight down I ended up adding some bracing to stiffen it up. It is really too risky to have something as hot as the 2stone gets on anything remotely unstable.

Hope to see some pics of your pies sometime.

regards,
willard

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2008, 06:22:02 PM »
Willard,  could you elaborate on the what oil does tho the hight heat cooking process?  Thanks -Marc

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2008, 10:18:56 PM »
Marc,

I never have a problem with my dough tearing, I get enough gluten from the lower gluten flour such as all purpose. The oven spring is excellent and it seems high gluten flour just contributes to a tougher crust with the 2stone. When you add oil it shortens the gluten strands. They use the term "shortening the dough" as in less gluten. Much of the push for high gluten is to get good voids or airy crumb at lower temperatures. When you add high  heat the steam is more intense and you get that anyway. With heat the gluten coagulates or sets up and with high heat may set up too fast or hard, which can contribute to the toughness. So the oil directly impacts / changes the gluten structure.

willard

Offline MWTC

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2008, 01:10:05 AM »
Willard,

Problem solved.

Using the cement blocks, I achieved an additional 13 inches. Perfect for sitting in a chair to monitor the bake.

Check out the picture.

MWTC  :chef:

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2008, 06:29:35 AM »
MWTC,

You have stripped it - down to the bone - I can't compete.

regards,
willard

Offline MWTC

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2008, 12:20:13 PM »
Just bought a new digital camera, Nikon Coolpix P4. Just wanted to see how the pictures show up on the Forum.

Twenty one day old dough!!!

MWTC  :chef:
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 11:43:23 PM by MWTC »


Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2008, 05:53:27 PM »
Your pictures look good, especially since they are only 60 KB  - Willard

Offline MWTC

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2008, 11:08:33 AM »
Last nights pizza, made with a 22 day old dough.

This was baked at a stone temperature of 625 degrees for 3 minutes in a tin plated steel pan in the 2stone Oven.

MWTC  :chef:

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2008, 12:23:31 PM »
MWTC,

Besides the fact that I always admired your pizzas, your pictures are a great improvement with your new camera! Nice Job.

I just got done doing a little test adding a little whipping cream to the Grande WM diced Mozzarella - stirring it into a dry cottage cheese like mix, to get it to behave more like fresh Mozzarella at a high temp bake.       

- Willard

« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 12:26:48 PM by 2stone »

Offline MWTC

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2008, 12:51:23 PM »
That is a great looking pizza Willard.

What flour?

What did you think of the taste with the whipping cream? What brand?

MWTC  :chef:

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2008, 02:49:05 PM »
Thanks, That' KA AP four day cold rise with a little olive oil.
The Cheese - Grande Whole Milk diced with some Walmart GV heavy whipping cream.
It's rich and reduces the stringiness of the cheese, a little cream goes a long way.

-Willard

Offline MWTC

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2008, 03:10:46 PM »
Do you think it improved things? The sign will be, will you continue to add the whipping cream to the cheese.

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2008, 06:48:45 PM »
MWTC, the verdict is still out on the cream.


Here is the Inferno, a standalone or built inn oven, with the same performance as the Pizza Pro (but manual rotation) at about half the cost. It also has a Fibrament slab top with twice the mass. Because of the enclosed design the oven still preheats fast. It can easily be moved with a regular hand truck.

Regards,
Willard

Offline Essen1

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2008, 08:04:07 PM »
Will,

that's a fantastic-looking design! Looks like your pizza oven enterprise is taking off. Any idea what the price will be for the Inferno?

Mike
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein


Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2008, 08:50:23 PM »
Thanks Mike,

It's keeping me busy, for sure. The Pizza Pro is selling well but mostly to commercial operators.
The Inferno will start at about half of the Pizza Pro (around $750) and hopefully it will fit the serious home pizza makers budget better. 

Willard

Offline Essen1

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2008, 09:31:54 PM »
Will,

That's still a tad out of my price range currently and unfortunately.  :(

But if you don't mind, you know what look cool on it? A little chimney, perhaps with a damper installed, to control air flow and internal temperature. Something like the my BBQ smoker has.

I'm thinking of installing that feature on my LBE. On the other hand, you probably know what the Inferno needs. Still, though, it would look quite authentic and would be a nice feature  ;D

Mike
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2008, 08:52:57 AM »
Mike,

A chimney looks cool but it has no practical function. The other benefit to not having one is that all the air is coming out the front, so in the winter time when the diehards move into the garage or keep making pizza outside! the air coming out the front heats YOU up instead of being wasted out the top - Willard

Offline canadianbacon

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2008, 09:40:46 AM »
Hi Willard,

that new pizza oven looks amazing !, lots of time and effort have gone into that I'm sure.  Beatitful looking
and I like the CAD mockup image with the brick, - I could see that in my backyard !

Beautiful work Willard.

Mark

Here is the Inferno, a standalone or built inn oven, with the same performance as the Pizza Pro (but manual rotation) at about half the cost. It also has a Fibrament slab top with twice the mass. Because of the enclosed design the oven still preheats fast. It can easily be moved with a regular hand truck.

Regards,
Willard
Pizzamaker, Rib Smoker, HomeBrewer, there's not enough time for a real job.

Offline Fingerstyle

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2008, 10:33:02 AM »
Beautiful design Willard!  On my wish list for sure. 
Looks like plenty of room in there.  Does the arched top allow for bottom-stone-only bread baking? 

Vic
"... I say we ride some gravity." - Patrick Rizzo

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2008, 05:06:24 PM »
Canadianbacon,

Thanks... Yes it has evolved a bit, but the principle is still the same - I'm sure you are pulling a few fine pies out of your oven.
If you want to have some fun, down load Sketchup at http://sketchup.google.com/download/ I have been using it for a few years and had to pay real money for it, but now that Google acquired them they are giving away a lite version of 6 for free. Once you get the hang of it you can create all kinds of interesting stuff with it.

Vic,

Thanks, I did raise the top slightly so there is more room to do low profile breads. It will do two small loaves or four buns nicely. By keeping the size of the bread smaller, you can still crank up the heat, and with some misting get a decent crust on the bread.

regards,
Willard

Offline MWTC

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2008, 02:06:01 AM »
Tonights offering.

Lite and chewy.

MWTC  :chef:

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2008, 08:06:39 AM »
MWTC,

Nice Pie.

What type of flour (flour mixture) are you using?
Are you using oil in the dough?
What type of Cheese are you using? is it shredded or diced?
Are you still doing all your pies in a pan with a 1 1/2 lip?

Regards,
Willard