Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 229573 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #480 on: June 13, 2013, 08:47:11 PM »
Norma,

I forgot to ask you earlier but are you able to read the ingredients on the label for the PJ Garlic sauce? The ingredients list I have is one that I got from PJ some time ago before they stopped that practice. It's possible that the list has changed. I'm especially interested in how the garlic is recited on the label and where it appears in the list.

Peter


Online Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10807
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #481 on: June 13, 2013, 08:47:50 PM »

If you can't find garlic juice locally, you can make your own using a garlic press or a food processor. If you do a Google search on how to make garlic juice, you will find instructions on how to do it.

Peter
I checked into that and it looks like a real pain...not to mention that it probably doesn't work either.  ;)
Jus buy the juice.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #482 on: June 13, 2013, 08:54:29 PM »
Bob,

My thinking was that Norma wouldn't need much garlic juice to establish its efficacy. That could save Norma some money if garlic juice isn't the right form for the clone of the PJ garlic sauce.

Peter

Online Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10807
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22148
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #484 on: June 13, 2013, 09:14:33 PM »
Norma,

I forgot to ask you earlier but are you able to read the ingredients on the label for the PJ Garlic sauce? The ingredients list I have is one that I got from PJ some time ago before they stopped that practice. It's possible that the list has changed. I'm especially interested in how the garlic is recited on the label and where it appears in the list.

Peter

Peter,

The ingredients on the label for the PJ Garlic sauce is really small.  I did look for my bigger magnifying glass a little while ago to see what was on the ingredients label and can't recall where I placed it.  This is a photo of the ingredients label.  If you can't see what it says, I will hunt for my bigger magnifying glass again.

Edit:  I think this is a better photo.

Norma
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 09:22:28 PM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10807
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #485 on: June 13, 2013, 09:27:51 PM »
Peter,

The ingredients on the label for the PJ Garlic sauce is really small.  I did look for my bigger magnifying glass a little while ago to see what was on the ingredients label and can't recall where I placed it.  This is a photo of the ingredients label.  If you can't see what it says, I will hunt for my bigger magnifying glass again.

Edit:  I think this is a better photo.

Norma
Whew!  :o
Do you have all those chemicals to clone this properly Norma?  :-D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22148
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #486 on: June 13, 2013, 09:29:35 PM »
Whew!  :o
Do you have all those chemicals to clone this properly Norma?  :-D

Bob,

That is up to the expert Peter if the PJ garlic sauce can be cloned.   :-D  I sure don't know. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #487 on: June 13, 2013, 09:59:39 PM »
Norma,

I think you can scratch the garlic juice. The only garlic in the PJ Garlic sauce is dehydrated garlic. And it is used in an amount less than 2%. That means less than 0.567 grams for the one-ounce tub. I would guess that the dehydrated garlic is garlic powder. As support for that position, earlier this evening I found an old (2001) PJ formulation for its Garlic sauce at https://home.comcast.net/~tfcozzo/food/PapaJohns.htm. You will note at the bottom of the page that the garlic was in the form of garlic powder, which is a dehydrated product, and "natural garlic flavor". The current formulation is similar but with no "natural garlic flavor".

I may do some more searching but the Parkay Squeeze product still seems to be the closest margarine spread to what PJ uses and can be purchased at retail.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22148
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #488 on: June 13, 2013, 10:43:40 PM »
Norma,

I think you can scratch the garlic juice. The only garlic in the PJ Garlic sauce is dehydrated garlic. And it is used in an amount less than 2%. That means less than 0.567 grams for the one-ounce tub. I would guess that the dehydrated garlic is garlic powder. As support for that position, earlier this evening I found an old (2001) PJ formulation for its Garlic sauce at https://home.comcast.net/~tfcozzo/food/PapaJohns.htm. You will note at the bottom of the page that the garlic was in the form of garlic powder, which is a dehydrated product, and "natural garlic flavor". The current formulation is similar but with no "natural garlic flavor".

I may do some more searching but the Parkay Squeeze product still seems to be the closest margarine spread to what PJ uses and can be purchased at retail.

Peter

Peter,

It is good to hear that you think I can scratch the garlic juice.  I see that the garlic from your link was in the form of garlic powder.  What does it mean by “natural garlic flavor”?  I don't know how you find a link like you did, but that sure was slick. 

Just by the tasting the Parkay Squeeze, looking at the color and watching how it became when it sat out, the Parkay Squeeze seems like a good fit for trying to make a PJ clone Garlic sauce.  I am not sure how potent my garlic powder is compared to the garlic powder PJ uses, but I will start with 0.567 grams since you mentioned that amount.  I may have to go up in the amounts of garlic powder if it doesn't have enough garlic flavor. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22148
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #489 on: June 14, 2013, 07:57:09 AM »
Peter,

I don't know if you were aware of the lawsuit between Pizza Magia and Papa John's but I saw that lawsuit which happened over three-years ended in 2003 when searching about the Garlic sauce.  It looks to me like that lawsuit was about Pizza Magia copying Papa John's pizza crust, placement of toppings under the cheese and inclusion of free garlic sauce with products.  It seems like Holland was a former franchise owner and violated his franchise agreement and had ownership interest in a franchise company back in 1998 and began making plans to create Pizza Magia in early 1999.  It also looks like the commissary system of Pizza Magia was at issue and R. Ted Wells was a former Papa John's executive.  I wonder if there are other articles about Pizza Magia and if they did use the same Garlic dipping sauce as Papa John's does.  I would tend to believe that R. Ted Wells would know how that garlic dipping sauce was made and how it could be purchased if Pizza Magia used the same garlic dipping sauce.

http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2003/08/18/story6.html?page=all   

Anyway, if the above means nothing, I find it fascinating about the dog-eat-dog world of pizza.

I did make a dough ball, er, I mean dog ball for the cheesesticks last evening.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #490 on: June 14, 2013, 08:02:30 AM »
Norma,

I found the link I referenced to the early version of the PJ Garlic sauce by searching the expression "Papa John's Garlic sauce" along with the name "Jane McCoy". Jane was an executive assistant at Papa John's who usually dealt with matters concerning the PJ products. She is also the one who sent me a document that contained a treasure trove of information about the PJ products. When she left, the music stopped and PJ discontinued the practice of sharing information on their products with the public although it will do so on a selective basis when health or nutrition issues are presented to PJ by interested parties.

As for the expression "natural garlic flavor", I interpreted that to mean garlic in a more natural form, as opposed to a dry form of garlic. Dry garlic powder is also a natural form of garlic, since the product contains only garlic and no other added ingredients, but it does go through some factory processing, including dehydration, to get to its final form. When Bob suggested garlic juice, that seemed to best fit the expression "natural garlic flavor". It would be an easy peasy product to use to make the PJ Garlic sauce and its cost would be reasonable in the quantities that PJ uses.

This morning, out of curiosity, I weighed out about 0.60 grams of two brands of garlic powder from my pantry. In both cases, it was a bit less than 1/4-teaspoon. For your tests, I think I would start out with less and work up from there until you think you have captured the right amount from a flavor standpoint. Your results won't be the same as for other people since tastebuds differ from one person to another and the garlic powders will differ from one brand to another and through storage over time. The best we can hope for is to get a general amount of garlic powder that seems to do the trick. it may well turn out that the Parkay Squeeze product is not good enough for cloning purposes.

I also noticed from the peel-off label for the PJ Garlic sauce says to shake the container and also to keep the product refrigerated. So, what Nate said about separation, and questioned by Bob, seems to be true.

I'd also like to remind you that a lot is riding on your shoulders. According to this YouTube video, the PJ Garlic sauce has powerful conscienceness-altering properties:


 
Peter
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 10:08:19 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22148
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #491 on: June 14, 2013, 09:07:50 AM »
Norma,

I found the link I referenced to the early version of the PJ Garlic sauce by searching the expression "Papa John's Garlic sauce" along with the name "Jane McCoy". Jane was an executive assistant at Papa John's who usually dealt with matters concerning the PJ products. She is also the one who sent me a document that contained a treasure trove of information about the PJ products. When she left, the music stopped and PJ discontinued the practice of sharing information on their products with the public.

As for the expression "natural garlic flavor", I interpreted that to mean garlic in a more natural form, as opposed to a dry form of garlic. Dry garlic powder is also a natural form of garlic, since the product contains only garlic and no other added ingredients, but it does go through some factory processing, including dehydration, to get to its final form. When Bob suggested garlic juice, that seemed to best fit the expression "natural garlic flavor". It would be an easy peasy product to use to make the PJ Garlic sauce and its cost would be reasonable in the quantities that PJ uses.

This morning, out of curiosity, I weighed out about 0.60 grams of two brands of garlic powder from my pantry. In both cases, it was a bit less than 1/4-teaspoon. For your tests, I think I would start out with less and work up from there until you think you have captured the right amount from a flavor standpoint. Your results won't be the same as for other people since tastebuds differ from one person to another and the garlic powders will differ from one brand to another and through storage over time. The best we can hope for is to get a general amount of garlic powder that seems to do the trick. it may well turn out that the Parkay Squeeze product is not good enough for cloning purposes.

I also noticed from the peel-off label for the PJ Garlic sauce says to shake the container and also to keep the product refrigerated. So, what Nate said about separation, and questioned by Bob, seems to be true.

I'd also like to remind you that a lot is riding on your shoulders. According to this YouTube video, the PJ Garlic sauce has powerful conscienceness-altering properties:


 
Peter

Peter,

Thanks for posting how you found that link that you referenced earlier.  I understand now that Jane McCoy helped you a lot if she sent you a document that contained a treasure trove of information about the PJ products. 

Thanks also for telling me how you interpret “natural flavor”.  I tried to find out about “natural garlic flavor” in a search at http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=101.22  but that was too confusing to me in understanding all of that. I see what you mean about when Bob suggested garlic juice and how that would make an easy peasy Garlic Sauce.  I also saw that Pizza Magia had a company develop their new Garlic sauce.  I would think the Pizza Magia Garlic sauce would healthier than Papa John's. 

Thanks for telling me what amount of garlic powder to start out with.  I know all of our taste-buds are different and garlic powders do differ from one brand to another and though storage over time. 

I also saw the PJ Garlic sauce says to shake the container.  I didn't do that before I tried it on the cheesesticks I purchased.  Maybe that is why the Garlic sauce that came with my cheesesticks was separated some. 

Lol, don't put too much on my shoulders about trying to clone the PJ Garlic sauce.  I know the PJ Garlic sauce sure changed my mind though about trying a Garlic sauce.  I never had tried PJ Garlic sauce before, but I found it very good and almost addicting.  That video you posted also had me laughing and wondering really how PJ Garlic sauce is made. 

I have to go to the eye doctors soon this morning and maybe if I get new glasses might be able read fine print on a product like PJ Garlic sauce, but I doubt that will happen because that print is so small.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #492 on: June 14, 2013, 09:13:47 AM »
To keep from having to jump between threads to find things, I thought that it might be useful to set forth in one place the different versions of the Papa John's Garlic sauce as it evolved over time. Here are the four versions that I am aware of:

Circa 2001: Special Garlic Sauce: Liquid margarine [partially hydrogenated soy bean oil, water, salt, mono and diglycerides, lecithin, sodium benzoate (a preservative), calcium disodium EDTA and citric acid (to protect flavor), colored with beta carotene, vitamin A palmitate added], water, garlic powder, salt, lactic acid [manufactured from a microbiological fermentation of lactobacillus sp. bacteria], natural garlic flavor.

Circa 2003: Liquid and partially hydrogenated soybean oil, water, salt, dehydrated garlic, vegetable mono and diglycerides, soy lecithin, natural garlic flavor, artificial flavor, sodium benzoate (a preservative), lactic acid, calcium disodium EDTA (added to protect flavor), beta carotene (color), vitamin A palmitate added, citric acid.

Circa 2008: Garlic Sauce: Liquid and Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Water, Salt, Garlic*, Vegetable Mono & Diglycerides, Soy Lecithin, Natural Garlic Flavor, Artificial Flavor [butter], Sodium Benzoate (a preservative), Lactic Acid, Calcium Disodium EDTA added to protect flavor, Beta Carotene (Color).
(Note: The asterisk denotes that the item may not be in its order by predominance of ingredients)

Current Version (2013): Soybean oil, water, salt, contains less than 2% of garlic*, vegetable mono & diglycerides, natural & artificial flavor, partially hydrogenated soybean oil, soy lecithin, lactic acid, sodium benzoate (a preservative), calcium disodium EDTA added to protect flavor, citric acid, carotene(color), Vitamin A palmitate added. *Dehydrated

For comparison purposes, the ingredients for the Parkay Squeeze spread are as follows:

Parkay Squeeze ingredients: LIQUID SOYBEAN OIL, WATER, SALT, HYDROGENATED COTTONSEED OIL, VEGETABLE MONOGLYCERIDES AND SOY LECITHIN (EMULSIFIERS), POTASSIUM SORBATE AND SODIUM BENZOATE (TO PRESERVE FRESHNESS), ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR, PHOSPHORIC ACID (ACIDULANT), COLORED WITH BETA CAROTENE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN A), VITAMIN A PALMITATE.

The Nutrition Facts for the PJ Garlic sauce can be found at http://order.papajohns.com/nutrition/5/subMenu.html

The Nutrition Facts for the Parkay Squeeze product can be found at http://www.parkay.com/our-spreads.jsp.

To complete the story to this point, as previously noted in the Cheesesticks thread that Nate started, there is a ConAgra margarine spread product that is sold in mini-tubs, with the following ingredients:

ConAgra Mini-Tub Margarine Spread: Liquid and partially hydrogenated soybean oil, water, salt, vegetable mono & diglycerides, potassium sorbate and sodium benzoate (as preservatives), soy lecithin, artificial flavor, phosphoric acid, calcium disodium edta added to protect flavor, beta carotene (color), vitamin a palmitate added, whey.

ConAgra also makes the Parkay Squeeze product.

For those who are interested in the chronology for the PJ pizza dough, here it is as best I know it:

Circa 2001: Pizza Dough: Bleached, enriched wheat flour (niacin, iron (reduced), thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid), malted barley flour, clear filtered water, sugar, soybean oil, salt, yeast, inactive dried yeast, ascorbic acid, (added as dough conditioner), enzymes. (https://home.comcast.net/~tfcozzo/food/PapaJohns.htm)

Circa 2003: Pizza Dough: Unbleached, enriched flour (niacin, iron (reduced), thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid), malted barley flour, clear filtered water, sugar, soybean oil, salt, yeast, ascorbic acid, (added as dough conditioner), enzymes. (http://web.archive.org/web/20120723105440/http://www.vegfamily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=503&page=2)

Circa 2005: Pizza Dough: Unbleached enriched wheat flour (wheat flour, malted barley flour, ascorbic acid, enzyme, niacin, iron as ferrous sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid), water, sugar, soybean oil, salt, yeast, wheat starch.

Circa 2008-Present: Pizza Dough: Unbleached enriched wheat flour (wheat flour, malted barley flour, wheat starch, ascorbic acid, enzyme, niacin, iron as ferrous sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid), water, sugar, soybean oil, salt, yeast [fungal or bacterial derivatives – NO animal derivatives]. No trans fat.

Peter

EDIT (7/8/13): Added circa 2003 version of the PJ Garlic sauce; EDIT 2 (7/11/2013): added chronology for the PJ Pizza Dough

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #493 on: June 14, 2013, 09:57:10 AM »
To switch gears a bit, today I found a blog entry by a health conscious mother at http://theallnaturaldiet.blogspot.com/2013/01/papa-johns-pizza.html that gives a more recent ingredients lists for the PJ pizza doughs, sauce and cheese. To preserve the information, I have reproduced those ingredients lists as follows:

Pizza Dough: Unbleached enriched wheat flour (wheat flour, malted barley flour, wheat starch, ascorbic acid, enzyme, niacin, iron as ferrous sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid), water, sugar, soybean oil, salt, yeast [fungal or bacterial derivatives – NO animal derivatives]. No trans fat.
CONTAINS: Wheat
Dustinator: Wheat flour, semolina, soybean oil.
Contains: WHEAT

Pizza Sauce: Vine-ripened fresh tomatoes, sunflower oil, sugar, salt, spices [oregano, black pepper, basil], garlic*, extra virgin olive oil and citric acid. *Dehydrated No trans fat.

Thin Crust: Unbleached Flour (wheat flour, malted barley flour), water, soybean oil, cultured wheat starch, yeast, salt, natural and artificial flavors (milk), dextrose, calcium propionate (preservative) and soy lecithin.
Contains: Milk, Soy, Wheat

Cheese: Part-skim mozzarella cheese (pasteurized milk, cultures, salt, enzymes [chymax – NOT animal derived]), modified food starch [derived from corn], powdered cellulose (added to prevent caking), whey protein concentrate, sodium citrate, sodium propionate (added as a preservative). Contains MILK

The important point I want to make is that the above items did not change from what I reported a long time ago at Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg58199.html#msg58199.

Peter

Online Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10807
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #494 on: June 14, 2013, 01:18:11 PM »


Circa 2008: Garlic Sauce: Liquid and Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Water, Salt, Garlic*, Vegetable Mono & Diglycerides, Soy Lecithin, Natural Garlic Flavor, Artificial Flavor [butter], Sodium Benzoate (a preservative), Lactic Acid, Calcium Disodium EDTA added to protect flavor, Beta Carotene (Color).
(Note: The asterisk denotes that the item may not be in its order by predominance of ingredients)



ConAgra Mini-Tub Margarine Spread: Liquid and partially hydrogenated soybean oil, water, salt, vegetable mono & diglycerides, potassium sorbate and sodium benzoate (as preservatives), soy lecithin, artificial flavor, phosphoric acid, calcium disodium edta added to protect flavor, beta carotene (color), vitamin a palmitate added, whey.


Boy, these 2 products sure do look similair....about the only difference I can see are the preservers used and the mini-tub has some phosphoric acid in it...going to see if I can get some of the Mini-Tubs today. What does the phosphoric do Peter?

Bob
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 01:22:48 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #495 on: June 14, 2013, 01:54:53 PM »
Boy, these 2 products sure do look similar....about the only difference I can see are the preservers used and the mini-tub has some phosphoric acid in it...going to see if I can get some of the Mini-Tubs today. What does the phosphoric do Peter?
Bob,

You are correct, they do look close. However, you will note that the mini-tubs include whey, which is a byproduct of cheese making. But it is far down the list, so there can't be much of it if the ingredients list is correct. Some time ago, ConAgra was forced to do a recall because they forgot to list the whey in their ingredients list.

The phosphoric acid is an acidulant. As such, it provides a tangy or sour taste. The phosphoric acid is way down the list of ingredients so it should not provide an overly tangy or sour taste. PJ uses both lactic acid and citric acid, presumably to perform the same function. You can see other examples of acidulants in the article at http://www.understandingfoodadditives.org/pages/ch2p9-1.htm. You will often see many of those acidulants in breads that are fake sourdough breads. Instead of using sourdough cultures, bakers add acidulants and pass off the breads as sourdough breads.

I discussed the ConAgr mini-tubs recently at Reply 60 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25603.msg259496.html#new. The source that I found for that product was FoodServiceDirect.com, at http://www.foodservicedirect.com/product.cfm/p/184895/Conagra-Parkay-Whipped-Spread.htm. You would need two of the 14-gram mini-tubs to equal one of the PJ mini-tubs. As I mentioned in Reply 60, by the time you factor in shipping costs, the total price can be quite high. And then, you would have to add the garlic.

Peter


Online Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10807
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #496 on: June 14, 2013, 02:49:22 PM »
OK Peter; thanks. I didn't know if the mini-tubs might be something I could just pick up at the local market. I'm still going to nose around and see what we have around in this area.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22148
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #497 on: June 14, 2013, 09:42:44 PM »
I made the first attempt on a PJ Garlic Sauce and I think I made a mistake already.  I did weight out 1 ounce of the Parkay Squeeze, 1 gram of soybean oil and at first 0.50 grams of the Shurfine garlic powder.  I purchased a new container of garlic powder today to make sure it would be fresh.  On the side of the Shurfine garlic powder it says 1/8 tsp. equals about one clove garlic.  I mixed first before adding the salt and tasted.  I think where I went wrong was I used my pinch measuring spoon and I think in Peter's instructions he meant just a pinch of salt and not to use a pinch measuring spoon.  The PJ Garlic attempt is now too salty compared to what PJ Garlic sauce tastes like.  I also did shake-up the PJ Garlic sauce before opening it right out of refrigerator and it is thinner, more buttery tasting and more yellow in appeance than what I tried.  I added another 0.10 grams of the garlic powder and the garlic powder part tastes okay.  I will let both of these Garlic sauces in the refrigerator and taste both again tomorrow.  It can be seen that the PJ Garlic sauce is thinner than what I attempted.  To my taste-buds it is also oilier, or maybe that is the buttery flavor.  Any suggestions on how to get the Parkay Squeeze thinner before I make another attempt tomorrow, or if I should try something else?

The cheesestick dough ball isn't doing too much, but it has until later Sunday to ferment some more and since the ADY was not rehydrated I really didn't expect much fermentation in a little less than a day.  There are some tiny fermentation bubbles on the bottom of the plastic container, so the cheesestick dough ball is fermenting slowly.

I also might called Conagra next week to see if they do give any samples of the Parkay Whipped Spread.  I know a local Conagra did give me the MFB as a sample.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22148
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #498 on: June 15, 2013, 07:50:15 AM »
I am wondering if something like butter buds, or some other kind of buttered flavored product in dry form might need to be added to be able to make the PJ garlic sauce. http://www.walmart.com/ip/10794626?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227008729663&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=18115981390&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem#Ingredients  and http://bbuds.com/products_butter_buds/ 

I tasted my attempt at the PJ Garlic sauce and looked at it again this morning and although it is still too salty, it is missing the buttery flavor.  It did become a little thinner when it was in the refrigerator overnight.  I see from Peter's post at Reply 492 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg260041.html#msg260041  that Circa 2008 that there was artificial butter flavor added to the ingredients, but don't see added now as far as I can tell, unless it is the natural & artificial flavor listed after the vegetable mono & diglycerides on the ingredient list.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #499 on: June 15, 2013, 09:04:31 AM »
Norma,

I made the first attempt on a PJ Garlic Sauce and I think I made a mistake already.  I did weight out 1 ounce of the Parkay Squeeze, 1 gram of soybean oil and at first 0.50 grams of the Shurfine garlic powder.  I purchased a new container of garlic powder today to make sure it would be fresh.  On the side of the Shurfine garlic powder it says 1/8 tsp. equals about one clove garlic.  I mixed first before adding the salt and tasted.  I think where I went wrong was I used my pinch measuring spoon and I think in Peter's instructions he meant just a pinch of salt and not to use a pinch measuring spoon.  The PJ Garlic attempt is now too salty compared to what PJ Garlic sauce tastes like.  I also did shake-up the PJ Garlic sauce before opening it right out of refrigerator and it is thinner, more buttery tasting and more yellow in appearance than what I tried.  I added another 0.10 grams of the garlic powder and the garlic powder part tastes okay.  I will let both of these Garlic sauces in the refrigerator and taste both again tomorrow.  It can be seen that the PJ Garlic sauce is thinner than what I attempted.  To my taste-buds it is also oilier, or maybe that is the buttery flavor.  Any suggestions on how to get the Parkay Squeeze thinner before I make another attempt tomorrow, or if I should try something else?
As to the pinch of salt, yes, I meant a pinch between the thumb and forefinger. The PJ Garlic sauce has 310 mg of sodium in its one-ounce mini-tub. One ounce of the Parkay Squeeze spread has 220 mg of sodium. So, to equalize the two products from a sodium standpoint, we have to make up the 90 mg difference. 90 mg of sodium is equivalent to 90/2325 mg of salt, or about 1/25th of a teaspoon. Using one of the mini-measuring spoons, that would be about a half of the "pinch" mini-measuring spoon. It did occur to me to mention that equivalency but I couldn't remember whether you had a set of the mini-measuring spoons. This morning, I measured out a pinch of salt between my thumb and forefinger and it was about half of the "pinch" mini-measuring spoon.

To thin out your clone of the PJ Garlic sauce, you might use a bit of water. One of the differentiating factors between margarine products, both in stick and spread form, is the amount of water. Unfortunately, there is no way to determine how much water is in any given margarine product from the Nutrition Facts. I thought that the closest match from the Nutrition Fact standpoint to the margarine product used by PJ to make its Garlic sauce was a 60% vegetable oil spread. The Parkay Squeeze product is a 60% vegetable oil spread. I'm sure that I can determine how much water is in a generic 60% vegetable oil spread but that won't tell us how much water is actually in either the PJ Garlic sauce or the Parkay Squeeze spread to be able to equalize the two products from a water content standpoint. That means that you will have to add water until the consistency of the two products is the same. I wouldn't worry about the separation problem because you can always shake the mini-tub to get around that, much as PJ instructs on the peel-away label on its mini-tubs of Garlic sauce.

I also might called Conagra next week to see if they do give any samples of the Parkay Whipped Spread.  I know a local Conagra did give me the MFB as a sample.
If you are thinking about one of the mini-tubs of margarine spread at http://www.foodservicedirect.com/product.cfm/p/184895/Conagra-Parkay-Whipped-Spread.htm, you should keep in mind that that product is not the Parkay Whipped Spread. I think an incorrect photo was shown at the FoodServiceDirect.com website.

Peter


 

pizzapan