Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 223333 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #100 on: June 29, 2009, 08:50:17 AM »
smarttowers,

From the table you presented, it appears that you want to make two 16" pizzas, with a nominal thickness factor of 0.13642 and a bowl residue compensation of 1.5%. Papa John's makes a 16" pizza although I have not made that size myself in any of my experiments.

As to your pan, I personally avoid using non-stick pans such as the one you referenced because many such pans are not rated for use above about 450 degrees F. It may well be that the newer non-stick coated pans have overcome the problems that many of the older and cheaper non-stick coated pans had with outgassing at higher temperatures (and potentially emitting noxious fumes), but I have simply elected to avoid such pans altogether for my pizza making (although I do have one non-stick coated deep-dish pan for use below about 450 degrees F). Also, the lighter colored non-stick pans that are sold for baking pizzas may have a tendency to reflect oven heat rather than absorb it, resulting in an underbaked or light colored bottom crust or a top that is done baking before the bottom. This condition might be improved somewhat if the pan has perforations, of which there are many versions on the market, but one would have to test such a pan to see whether it helps achieve the desired results.

One of the major advantages of using a pizza screen, which is what Papa John's uses, is that it is lightweight and heats up more quickly than a pan and it is mesh-like, which allows the oven heat to reach the unbaked pizza quickly and directly to expedite baking the pizza. Since I do not have any experience with either a 16" Papa John's clone or using non-stick coated pans, I am hesitant to suggest a bake protocol for you to use with your particular oven. You may have to run further tests to determine if there is a particular protocol that does the job. Or possibly another member who has gone down the same path, successfully, may be able to better advise you.

Peter


Offline eric22

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #101 on: June 30, 2009, 04:22:50 AM »
tremendous  :chef:

Would ask mods to   create board just for most informative threads/posts like this one instead of having to use search.

Offline Cass

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #102 on: June 30, 2009, 07:00:06 AM »
Quote from: eric22 link=topic=6758.msg76484
Would ask mods to   create board just for most informative threads/posts like this one instead of having to use search.
+ 1

Most boards have "sticky" or two under each category, with all the basic information in one place. 
If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid.
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Offline pt

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #103 on: July 10, 2009, 04:54:22 PM »
Pete-zza, I really enjoyed reading this thread and appreciate all of your efforts.  I have two questions.

1) did you ever shape the dough at 55degrees like you wanted?

2) have you tried making Papa John’s breadsticks with your dough recipes?

This might help confirm all of your hard work and provide us with more great pictures.  :D

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #104 on: July 10, 2009, 08:56:11 PM »
pt,

Although I am not a big fan of breadsticks, I did use a PJ clone dough to make a batch of breadsticks. I found them to be too much on the sweet side all by themselves, even with seasonings like grated cheese, garlic, etc.

I have not yet tried working with the PJ clone dough while it is on the cool side. I have another PJ clone dough experiment to consider and that is where I intend to use the dough at around 55 degrees F, and possibly even cooler.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #105 on: July 22, 2009, 06:58:39 PM »
For those who have figured out how to make a credible Papa John's clone pizza and would like to build a business around the pizzas, see the PJ Equipment and Smallwares catalog at http://www.qualservcorp.com/pjcatalog2009.pdf.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #106 on: August 26, 2009, 06:55:59 PM »
This is a bit off-topic but interesting nonetheless. For several years, John Schnatter, the founder of Papa John's, had been trying to find the 1971 Camaro (see photos below, original and recent) that he sold in 1983 to save his father's tavern in Indiana (Mick's Lounge, shown at http://company.papajohns.com/about/pj_story.shtm) and to start what was to become the Papa John's chain. I have copied and pasted below one of the recent articles detailing Schnatter's search for his cherished Camaro.

Papa John's founder pays $250K for beloved Camaro

The Associated Press
Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:21 PM

LOUISVILLE, Ky. -- With the help of a $250,000 reward, the founder of the Papa John's pizza chain has finally reunited with the muscle car he sold years ago to help keep his family's business afloat.

John Schnatter sold the gold-and-black 1971 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 for $2,800 in 1983. The money helped save his father's tavern in Jeffersonville, Ind., and he used the rest to start what would become a worldwide pizza business.

But he still missed his beloved Camaro and spent years searching for it. He created a Web site on the search, held promotional appearances and eventually offered $250,000 to whoever found it.

It turns out he didn't have to leave Kentucky, where the pizza chain is based in Louisville. The car only changed hands twice from the original buyers, ending up with Jeffery Robinson in Flatwoods, about 165 miles to the east.

"When I first saw it I still wanted to look it over to make sure it was the car even though I knew it," Schnatter told The Associated Press. "That kind of hit me emotionally. I was kind of numb."

The original buyers of Schnatter's car heard about the search when he appeared in a TV interview before an NFL game this month. An online search led them to the car blog Jalopnik, which has followed the search and tipped off Papa John's.

Robinson, who bought the car about five years ago for $4,000, recently delivered the Camaro to Schnatter, earning the $250,000 reward. The original buyers will get $25,000 for their help tracking it down.

Schnatter says it looks very much the same as it did when he sold it in 1983, but with a larger motor and fatter tires for drag racing.

The car will be displayed at the company headquarters in Louisville, replacing a replica Schnatter commissioned while he searched for his original car.

In honor of the reunion, Papa John's planned to offer all Camaro owners a free pizza at stores on Wednesday.


Update (10/09): The above matter is now in litigation: http://www.nrn.com/article.aspx?id=372624.

Peter
EDIT (7/13/14): For the Wayback Machine version of the inoperative nrn.com link given above, see http://web.archive.org/web/20091221033546/http://www.nrn.com/article.aspx?id=372624


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #107 on: September 25, 2009, 10:54:27 AM »
As part of this month’s “Dessert Pizza” Monthly Challenge, I decided to attempt a clone of Papa John’s Applepie dessert pizza. A photo of that pizza can be seen at the Papa John’s website at http://www.papajohns.com/menu/side_applepie.shtm. I might add that there is also a companion PJ dessert pizza called Cinnapie, which can be seen at the Papa John’s website at http://www.papajohns.com/menu/side_cinnapie.shtm. I mention the Cinnapie pizza because there have been complaints that the Cinnapie pizza, which is of the same size as the Applepie pizza, looks much larger in the TV commercials than it actually is. The PJ website itself does not specify a size for the two pizzas, which led me to call my local PJ store to get that piece of information. The answer is that the two pizzas are 10” pizzas. I also saw a complaint that the Cinnapie pizza that one customer purchased did not look like the Cinnapie photo at the PJ website. That complaint was registered at http://www.grubgrade.com/2009/09/13/first-impressions-papa-johns-cinnapie-is-incredibly-small/comment-page-1/. After seeing the Cinnapie photo, I was determined to do a better job with my Applepie clone pizza.

For the dough formulation, I decided to use a modified version of the “emergency” Papa John’s clone formulation set forth in Reply 52 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg66312.html#msg66312. I modified that dough formulation by omitting the vital wheat gluten (that is, I used only the King Arthur bread flour) and I did not sift the flour before using. A more important change, about which I will have more to say a bit later in this thread, was that I reduced the salt from 1.5% to 0.75%. That change came out of my analysis of the nutrition information that Papa John’s provides at its website for the Cinnapie and Applepie pizzas.

The final dough formulation that I came up with, using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, was as follows:

King Arthur Bread Flour, unsifted (100%):
Water (56.5%):
IDY (0.80%):
Salt (0.75%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (7.3%):
Honey (5%):
Total (170.35%):
190.53 g  |  6.72 oz | 0.42 lbs
107.65 g  |  3.8 oz | 0.24 lbs
1.52 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.51 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
1.43 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.26 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
13.91 g | 0.49 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.06 tsp | 1.02 tbsp
9.53 g | 0.34 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.36 tsp | 0.45 tbsp
324.57 g | 11.45 oz | 0.72 lbs | TF = 0.1457682
Note: The dough formulation is for a single 10” pizza based on a nominal thickness factor of 0.14291; bowl residue compensation = 2%.

An important point to note about the above formulation is that the amount of dough, around 11 ounces, is almost exactly one half of that which would be needed to make a 14” pizza. I suspect that that is intentional and may allow PJ pizza makers to use half of a 14” dough ball to make an Applepie or Cinnapie pizza.

For those who do not have digital scales or prefer to work with volume measurements, the 190.53 grams (6.72 ounces) of the KABF converts to 1 c. + ½  c. + a bit less than 2 t. That conversion is based on the Textbook flour Measurement Method as described at member November’s Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/. Using the same conversion calculator, the 107.65 grams (3.8 ounces) of water converts to ⅓ c. + 1 T. + about 2 7/8 t. The water in the measuring cup should be viewed at eye level with the measuring cup on a flat surface.

As with the dough described at Reply 52 referenced above, the latest dough was prepared by hand. That was a logical choice given the small amount of dough involved, 11.22 ounces. A good alternative for such a small amount of dough would be to use a food processor.

The dough was prepared in the same manner as described in Reply 52. The water temperature used was 125 degrees F (51.7 degrees C), the finished dough weight was 322 grams (11.35 ounces), which I trimmed to 318.2 grams (11.22 ounces), and the finished dough temperature was 81.3 degrees F (27.4 degrees C). It took a bit less than 5 minutes of hand kneading on my work surface (after emptying the contents of my bowl onto the work surface), and the finished dough was of good quality, with a smooth and cohesive texture. No adjustments to flour or water were needed. To monitor the development of the dough, after placing the dough ball into an oiled glass bowl I used the poppy seed method as described at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6914.0.html.

At a room temperature of around 77.8 degrees F (25.4 degrees C), and with IDY at 0.80%, the dough expanded very quickly, doubling after about 35 minutes, tripling after about an hour, and not quite quadrupling after 2 hours. At the end of the two-hour fermentation period, I flattened the dough ball in my standard clone Dustinator blend of all-purpose flour, semolina flour and soybean oil, and shaped it into a 10” skin, which I then placed on a 12” pizza screen (the closest size pizza screen in my collection). Before placing the skin onto the screen, I pressed the circumferential rim area flat with my palms, so that the baked crust would also be as flat as possible (as shown in the PJ photo), and I docked the skin with a dough docker to minimize potential bubbling of the crust. I had no problems whatsoever working with the dough at any stage.

The PJ Applepie as sold by PJs is topped with three different toppings. The first is an apple topping, the second is a brown sugar streusel topping (also called a Crisp Topping), and the third is a white icing. In order to reproduce these three items, I relied on ingredients information that was provided to me by PJs last year, as follows:

Cinnamon Apples: Diced apples, sugar, water, margarine, [liquid and hydrogenated soybean oil, water, salt, vegetable mono & diglycerides, soy lecithin, sodium benzoate (a preservative), citric acid, artificial flavor, beta carotene (color), vitamin A palmitate, calcium disodium EDTA added to protect flavor], seasoning (modified corn starch, wheat flour, ascorbic acid, cinnamon), and apple concentrate.

Crisp Topping: Sugar, oats, bleached enriched flour (flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid), vegetable oil (partially hydrogenated soy and cottonseed), dextrose, non-fat dry milk, fructose, molasses, artificial flavor, salt, artificial color.

Icing (White): Sugar, water, corn syrup, stearic acid, artificial color, agar, salt, potassium sorbate (preservative), guar gum, pectin, dextrose, citric acid, sodium hexametaphosphate, natural and artificial flavor.

In my case, for the clone Cinnamon Apples topping, I used diced raw Fuji apples, which are firm and crisp and do not turn to mush when cooked. I tried two dice sizes, medium and small. I found that the apple flavor predominated when I used the medium dice and that the cinnamon flavor predominated when I used the small dice. I ended up combining the two batches, but would be inclined in future efforts to use the medium dice or maybe even a bit larger. For my version of the Cinnamon Apples topping, which maintained the PJ ingredient pecking order as best I could, I used seven small diced Fuji apples, 6 tablespoons of table sugar (sucrose), 4 tablespoons of water (the amount will vary depending on the age of the apples and their natural juice content and evaporation during cooking), 3 ½  teaspoons of soft margarine (standard supermarket low-end margarine), 7/8 teaspoon ground cinnamon, 5 ¼ teaspoons of apple concentrate, and a squeeze of fresh lemon juice to keep the apples from browning. The apple concentrate was a frozen apple juice concentrate. That was a nice flavor addition to the topping. I ended up with almost 14 ounces of the topping after cooking, of which I used about 6 ½ ounces on the pizza itself. Just about the entire pizza was covered with the apple topping.

For my clone Crisp (Streusel) Topping, I combined ½ cup firmly packed light brown sugar, ½ cup uncooked oats, 3 ½ tablespoons of King Arthur all-purpose flour, 2 tablespoons unsalted butter (for better flavor), 1 teaspoon of Carnation brand nonfat dry milk, ½ teaspoon molasses, and ¼ teaspoon vanilla extract (a combination of pure and artificial vanilla extract). I ended up with about 6.75 ounces of this topping, of which I used about 2 ounces on the clone Applepie pizza. That amount evenly covered the entire pizza.

For my clone White Icing, I combined 1 cup of powdered sugar, 3 ¾ teaspoons of warm water, 1 teaspoon of light corn syrup (Karo brand), 3/8 teaspoon vanilla extract, and a dash of salt. I ended up with about 4 ½ ounces, of which I used about 1 ½ ounces on the clone Applepie pizza. In my case, I put the white icing in a small plastic squeeze bottle (Wilton) with the tip cut to get a reasonable width of the icing stripes on the pizza. Although the description of the Applepie (and Cinnapie) pizza at the PJ website implies that the icing is placed on the pizza before baking, I put the icing on my clone pizza after it had cooled. When I tried putting the icing on the pizza just after it came out of the oven, I found that it melted almost immediately and disappeared into the pizza. I also found that it helped refrigerating the icing before using it. It is hard for me to imagine how PJs can apply the icing to the pizzas before baking, or even just out of the oven. Maybe their chemical-laden icing can withstand high oven temperatures. Or maybe it just melts like shown in the Cinnapie photo referenced above.

The pizza as dressed with the clone Cinnamon Apples topping and the Streusel topping was baked, on the 12” pizza screen, on the lowest oven rack position of my electric oven, which I had preheated for about 15 minutes at about 500 degrees F (260 degrees C). It took about 6 minutes to bake the pizza. The unbaked pizza that went into the oven weighed 575 grams (20.28 ounces). The baked pizza, after the icing was applied, weighed about 20.48 ounces. This number was very close to the 20.11 ounces I calculated from the PJ Applepie pizza nutrition information.

The photos below show the finished PJ clone Applepie pizza. It will be noted that the last photo in the series of photos shows 4 “sticks”, which is the serving method used by PJ’s for its Cinnapie and Applepie pizzas and constitutes a single serving. There are three servings in the whole pizza, or a total of 12 “sticks”. As can be seen in the photo of the “sticks”, they are not all of the same size and shape.

I thought that the clone PJ Applepie pizza was quite delicious, with a soft, fairly thick crust and good flavors. However, I caution those who might attempt this clone that the pizza is very sweet, at least to my palate, which tends to be quite sensitive to sweeteners. Now that I know better what is involved with this pizza, next time I would be inclined to use less sugar wherever possible. But the overall flavor and texture profile is very good. It is also a plus that the dough only takes a couple of hours to make. The toppings can be conveniently prepared during that time.

Peter

EDIT (3/4/13): Replaced Calculator link with the current link.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #108 on: September 25, 2009, 10:58:28 AM »
And more pics....

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #109 on: September 25, 2009, 02:26:21 PM »
As I noted in Reply 107, one of the changes I made to the dough formulation described there was to reduce the amount of salt to 0.75%. Previously, I had been using 1.5-1.75%, which is typical of the amount of salt I use in most of my pizzas. Also, previously I had only analyzed the Papa John's nutrition information for its basic pizzas, mainly the cheese and pepperoni pizzas. So, it wasn't until I tried to reverse engineer and clone the Applepie dessert pizza that I had reason to look at the nutrition information for that particular pizza. However, when I did, I concluded that most of the salt for that pizza was in the dough, not in the apple topping, the streusel topping and the icing. Specifically, the salt in the apple topping comes from the margarine, the salt in the streusel topping is at the bottom of the ingredients list and, hence, is minimal, and there is not much salt in the icing. After estimating the weights of the toppings used on a typical Applepie pizza, I calculated that a salt content (based on the total sodium value) of 0.75% was perhaps a more accurate value than the 1.5-1.75% that I had been using for the PJ clone doughs.

As a crosscheck, I also examined the nutrition information for the Cinnapie pizza. That pizza is similar to the Applepie pizza but, instead of using an apple topping, it uses a so-called "Cinnamon Spread". After analyzing the sodium content of the Cinnamon Spread, I came up with a total salt content for the Cinnapie pizza that, from a percentage standpoint, was very much in line (almost identical) with the salt percent I came up with for the Applepie pizza.

The next time I make a Papa John's clone dough, and perhaps for all future PJ clone doughs, I plan to use 0.75% salt. However, I do not expect to see major changes in the results I have gotten using 1.5-1.75% salt. There is salt in so many parts of a typical PJ pizza, from the dough to the cheeses to the sauces and toppings, that the difference between 0.75% salt and 1.5-1.75% salt is not likely to jump out at you. To me, the lower salt level is a step further to getting a more accurate Papa John's dough formulation, which is the objective that gave birth to this thread.

Peter
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 06:49:49 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #110 on: September 26, 2009, 10:10:50 AM »
Peter,
That's interesting to see how you found out the lower salt content of .075% while making the Apple Pie Clone. 
I will note that down.  When I get to try your PJ's clone again, I will use the .075% salt content. 
The two hours wasn't very long to prepare and bake the Apple Pie Clone.  I'm sure it took awhile to figure out the whole recipe.
Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #111 on: September 26, 2009, 11:12:16 AM »
Norma,

I believe you meant to say 0.75% rather than 0.075%.

Yes, it did take me quite a while to analyze the Applepie pizza nutrition data, but once I saw that that data was possibly better to analyze than a standard pizza, I concluded that it made sense to dig deeper into the Applepie nutrition data. Invariably--and it was true this time--I learn a lot from such analyses. For example, assuming that I am right on the amount of salt, it makes sense to have the lower value since that allows the dough balls to get a small amount of fermentation before they go into the cooler for a long slumber (from the point where they go into the cooler and into refrigerated vehicles and into coolers in the stores). I am sure that PJ doesn't let its dough balls sit around for long before going into the cooler since the dough balls have to make it out to five days or more. But some fermentation is a good thing. In a home setting, letting the dough rest for a few minutes before going into the refrigerator may replicate what PJ does in its commissaries. The big difference is that PJs has temperature and humidity controlled facilities with rigorous management of the dough preparation processes. Otherwise, their dough balls would be failing all over the place at unpredictable times and locations. I am sure that their commissaries are like scientific laboratories with clean rooms, etc.

I might add that the 0.75% salt figure applies to a cold fermented PJ clone dough, not to a room temperature fermented dough like my "emergency" dough version. I could have used 1.5-1.75% salt for my emergency dough without ill effect. Just going to a room temperature fermentation alone considerably changes the biochemistry.

It actually took me longer than two hours from start to finish. The toughest part, which took the most time, was getting the icing down right. I think I spent as much time as the food artist/stylist/professional photographer spent to prepare the shoot for the Applepie pizza shown at the Papa John's website (http://www.papajohns.com/menu/side_applepie.shtm) :-D.

As for our members in a home setting, I think just about any apple topping or streusel topping should work well with the PJ clone dough, whether cold fermented or room temperature fermented. Our members also have the opportunity to improve those toppings by using better ingredients and avoiding all of the chemicals that are used in the PJ toppings.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #112 on: September 26, 2009, 11:38:01 AM »
After estimating the weights of the toppings used on a typical Applepie pizza, I calculated that a salt content (based on the total sodium value) of 0.75% was perhaps a more accurate value than the 1.5-1.75% that I had been using for the PJ clone doughs.


I hate to sound like a math instructor, but would you mind showing your work?  Unless there's a lot of sodium in the Cinnapie topping, the total nutrition information for a Cinnapie indicates a fairly high percentage for the dough.  Here's the reference I worked from:

http://www.thedailyplate.com/nutrition-calories/food/papa-johns/papas-cinnapie

Now I probably didn't spend as much time as you did on calculating the amount of salt in the dough, but I felt that after the very simple calculation I did make, 0.75% seems extremely low and unsupported in the above information.  The primary assumption in my shortcut of a calculation is that there is not a significant amount of protein found anywhere in the pie except for the flour.  The second assumption is that they use a flour in the 13.5% protein range (you may adjust if you feel this is wrong).  The third assumption is that there is also very little sodium in the toppings (as you stated).  Based on these assumptions, the calculation looks like this:

2.54211 * 0.145 * 0.135 = 0.04976180325

That's 4.976% salt post-bake, which is crazy high so let's then assume the protein amount is severely rounded from 1.5.  Then we have 3.317% salt.  Regardless of further feasible assumptions, 0.75% is clearly out of range.  Are you sure you converted sodium to salt in your calculations?  Doing so with the percentage you provided would give 1.9% which is certainly plausible if you further consider the tiny amounts of sodium found elsewhere that would chip away at that number a little more.

- red.november

EDIT: A nutrition source with better resolution:

http://www.dietfacts.com/html/nutrition-facts/papa-johns-papas-cinnapie-34472.htm

2.54211 * 0.107 * 0.135 = 0.03672077895 (3.672%)

Rounded from 3.5 g of protein:

2.54211 * 0.0914 * 0.135 = 0.03136709529 (3.1367%)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 01:30:34 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline November

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #113 on: September 26, 2009, 12:49:51 PM »
Just thought I would perform one more calculation based on the following source (the highest resolution yet):

http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/papa-johns/cinnapie

2.54211 * 0.0622 * 0.135 = 0.02134609767 (2.1346%)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #114 on: September 26, 2009, 03:10:36 PM »
November,

I believe that the last link you provided (fatsecret) is perhaps the best one to use. The nutrition information for the Applepie pizza is also available at the same place, at http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/papa-johns/applepie. The nutrition data given at the thedailyplate website is for eight sticks, whereas the Cinnapie pizza now sold by PJs is 12 sticks. At one time, PJ made a 6" Cinnapie and I think I saw somewhere else that there was a third size at some point. Maybe the data is for a size other than 10". The dietfacts.com website mentions the Cinnapie pizza but, curiously, the serving size is given as "2 wings".

I don't know if my comments change anything, but I can post my calculations if needed.

Peter


Offline November

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #115 on: September 26, 2009, 04:43:06 PM »
Peter,

Actually the serving size and amount of ingredients have no bearing on the calculations.  All the calculations are done in relative percentages which doesn't change from quantity to quantity.  My shorthand method is simply to tie the amount of sodium to the amount of protein because of their mutual and proportional relationship to the dough.  Assuming the significance of quantities for both reside in the domain of the dough, and the percentage of protein for the flour is known, so shall the amount of flour per any arbitrary unit of measure be known and thusly the percentage of sodium for the flour.

I really wasn't trying to prove anything with my calculation other than a reason to reexamine the math you used for your calculation.  I'm much more interested in how you came about the percentage than anything else.  By the way, I went back to look at how much protein the oats and milk add based on your recommended quantity of two ounces and it comes to 0.5926 g per four sticks, which is still less than the difference between protein amounts accounted for on Papa John's website (8 g) and fatsecret's website (9 g).

- red.november

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #116 on: September 26, 2009, 05:24:06 PM »
November,

My notes are more complete for the Applepie pizza, so I will tell you how I did the calculations. I essentially tried to extrapolate Applepie numbers to a larger size pizza (14"). Until I built the pizza on the screen, I did not have a very good idea as to how much apple topping and streusel topping I would use. I essentially covered the entire pizza with both toppings while attempting to have the total pizza weight come close to the nutrition data numbers. The icing quantity was measured when it went on the pizza after cooling. Here is my calculation:

First, I noted at the PJ website (the nutrition information) that one serving of Applepie sticks is 190 grams.

Second, I divided that into an amount of dough that I previously used to make a 14" PJ clone dough. That was 573.88 grams/20.24 oz., so 573.88/190 = 3.02.

Third, I multiplied 3.02 by 520 mg. sodium, the amount of sodium in a single serving of the Applepie sticks. That gave me a value of 1570.62 mg., or about 0.68 t. salt.

Fourth, I then assumed that there was about 1/16th teaspoon salt in the icing (0.0625 t.), about 113 mg. sodium (about 0.049 t. salt) in the margarine for the apple topping, and about 212 mg. sodium (0.09 t. salt) in the margarine for the streusel topping.

Fifth, I subtracted 0.0625, 0.049 and 0.09 from 0.68, which gave me 0.48 t. Based on the amount of flour that I used in the 14" clone dough (341.6 g./12.05 oz.), that was 0.757%.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #117 on: September 26, 2009, 05:35:57 PM »
Peter,

Third, I multiplied 3.02 by 520 mg. sodium, the amount of sodium in a single serving of the Applepie sticks. That gave me a value of 1570.62 mg., or about 0.68 t. salt.

I didn't even check your other numbers because I found this glaring at me.  Are you sure about 4 g of salt being 0.68 t?  I think that should be higher.  I'll look over the other numbers now.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #118 on: September 26, 2009, 05:55:14 PM »
November,

I assumed that all of the sodium in the pizza was from salt, so I divided 1560.62 by 2300 to get 0.68 t. salt.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #119 on: September 26, 2009, 05:58:52 PM »
First, I noted at the PJ website (the nutrition information) that one serving of Applepie sticks is 190 grams.

Second, I divided that into an amount of dough that I previously used to make a 14" PJ clone dough. That was 573.88 grams/20.24 oz., so 573.88/190 = 3.02.

I can't figure out why you chose to divide the total amount of dough for a 14" pizza by the total amount of an Applepie serving.  An Applepie serving is more than just dough.