Author Topic: Greek pizza  (Read 117951 times)

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buceriasdon

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Re: Greek pizzaLet it rest or
« Reply #225 on: April 02, 2011, 05:19:40 PM »
I break the rules. I roll out to about an 1/8" thick, set the pan on the skin and cut away the excess, oil the pan and drop the skin in. Let it rest for about an hour, restretch if needed, top and bake.
Don

So, spread out the dough, layer the sauce and cheese, and just throw it in the oven? Won't be too dense or gummy?



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Re: Greek pizzaLet it rest or
« Reply #226 on: April 02, 2011, 05:21:05 PM »
I break the rules. I roll out to about an 1/8" thick, set the pan on the skin and cut away the excess, oil the pan and drop the skin in. Let it rest for about an hour, restretch if needed, top and bake.
Don

That sounds like it would work well.
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~ Ron

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Offline Ev

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #227 on: April 02, 2011, 10:06:04 PM »
Load and bake has always worked well for me. Give it a try.

Offline Ronzo

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #228 on: April 02, 2011, 10:09:54 PM »
Load and bake has always worked well for me. Give it a try.
Will definitely do that next time.
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~ Ron

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #229 on: April 03, 2011, 12:24:41 AM »
Ron, I don't know what Greek pizza is supposed to look like, but that pie looks βασιλικός.

CL
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Offline Ronzo

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #230 on: April 03, 2011, 01:02:45 AM »
Ron, I don't know what Greek pizza is supposed to look like, but that pie looks βασιλικός.

CL
My oldest daughter said it's the best pizza I've ever made. She's a carboholic, so the thick pie was right up her alley.

By the way, it WAS βασιλικός! That Romano around the edges is the way to go.
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Offline Ev

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #231 on: April 25, 2011, 07:57:57 AM »
I wasn't sure whether to post this here or under one of the oven topics or even "General", but I just wanted to see if I could bake one of these in my portable, semi-wfo. As it turns out, I can! It took a little longer than my kitchen oven, and I didn't get enough bottom browning in the pan. Another minute or so on the brick took care of that. The dough was half of a regular Lehmann ball. About 280g, 3day cold fermented.


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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #232 on: April 25, 2011, 08:36:56 AM »
I wasn't sure whether to post this here or under one of the oven topics or even "General", but I just wanted to see if I could bake one of these in my portable, semi-wfo. As it turns out, I can! It took a little longer than my kitchen oven, and I didn't get enough bottom browning in the pan. Another minute or so on the brick took care of that. The dough was half of a regular Lehmann ball. About 280g, 3day cold fermented.



Steve,

Your Greek pizza baked in your portable semi-wfo looks really good!  ;D  I guess you will be able to give your camping friends a new kind of pizza to try this year.  I am sure they would love the Greek pizzas.

Nice job!  :chef:

Norma
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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #233 on: June 17, 2011, 11:45:32 AM »
Steve made this Greek Pizza Tuesday at market.  I am posting the pictures because he is still having problems with his camera.  He used the Ischia starter by 10% of the water weight and room temperature fermented his dough from Monday until Tuesday.  If you want to ask him any questions about his Greek Pizza, Steve said he will answer them.

The Greek style pizza was delicious!  ;D

Pictures below

Norma
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Offline Ronzo

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #234 on: June 17, 2011, 11:46:11 AM »
Norma... yer killin' me.


That's gorgeous.
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~ Ron

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #235 on: June 17, 2011, 11:48:51 AM »
Norma... yer killin' me.


That's gorgeous.

Ron,

The Greek pizza Steve made was very good, especially using the Ischia starter and room temperature ferment.  I wish I could eat another slice now.   :-D

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #236 on: June 21, 2011, 07:56:17 AM »
While I was in Massachusetts recently, I had an opportunity to sample a Greek style pizza that used a dough that was quite different than the Greek style dough formulations that I had tried or researched before. What was different is that the dough included milk and eggs. When I mentioned to the owner that that was quite unusual, he said that it was the eggs and milk that made his pizza so good, and he gave me and my friend slices of his cheese pizza to convince us of the superiority of his pizzas. For those who are interested, I reported on other details of my visit and what I learrned about the dough formulation used at the pizzeria at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14426.msg144008.html#msg144008. When I mentioned to scott r that the pizzeria used eggs and milk, he told me that that was quite common.

Peter

Offline Saturday Coffee

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #237 on: June 21, 2011, 08:16:54 PM »
While I was in Massachusetts recently, I had an opportunity to sample a Greek style pizza that used a dough that was quite different than the Greek style dough formulations that I had tried or researched before. What was different is that the dough included milk and eggs.

I have not had the pleasure of having any pizzas in Massachusetts.   How does this differ from the Pizzas served in "Greektown" Detroit?  





Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #238 on: June 21, 2011, 09:34:09 PM »
I have not had the pleasure of having any pizzas in Massachusetts.   How does this differ from the Pizzas served in "Greektown" Detroit?  

Saturday Coffee,

I have never been to Detroit but after doing a Google search of pizza places in the Greektown section of Detroit, including reviewing a list of food merchants in Greektown, the two names that came up most often in the pizza category were Pizza Papalis and Niki's. Pizza Papalis specializes mostly in the Chicago stuffed deep-dish style and a thin/flat pizza style (http://www.pizzapapalis.com/Pizza.aspx). The stuffed deep-dish pizza can be seen in the YouTube video at . The other Greektown pizzeria that came up in my search is Niki's (http://nikispizza.com/2010/?id=menu). That restaurant specializes in a square pan pizza along the lines of the Detroit area Buddy's/Shield's/Cloverleaf/Jet's style of pan pizza. The Niki's square pizza can feature the standard toppings but one can also get "Greek" style toppings like lamb, feta cheese, etc. You can see an example of the latter in the YouTube video at .

Like the Niki's pizzas, the Massachusetts Greek style pizzas are also pan pizzas but the pans are round. Also, the Massachusetts Greek style pizzas use mostly white cheddar cheese although there are some operators who blend white cheddar cheese with mozzarella cheese and/or provolone cheese. I don't know what all of the Detroit-area square pizza makers use as cheeses but Buddy's uses a brick cheese (or so I was told) and Jet's uses Grande mozzarella cheese. Many Massachusetts operators will offer Greek style toppings like feta cheese on specialty/gourmet pizzas, often along with spinach, olives, etc.

Maybe one of our members from the Detroit area can give you a better and more comprehensive explanation of the types of pizzas that one might expect to find in Greektown Detroit and how they relate, if at all, to the Massachusetts Greek style pizzas.

Peter

Offline Ev

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #239 on: June 22, 2011, 10:42:50 AM »
Peter, I'd love to try a new recipe if you can recommend a % for the egg & milk.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #240 on: June 22, 2011, 12:01:24 PM »
Peter, I'd love to try a new recipe if you can recommend a % for the egg & milk.

Steve,

Let me see what I can do.

I actually went to two different pizzerias that specialize in the Greek style during my trip to Massachusetts. With respect to the one that uses the milk and eggs, I can't say that I could detect their presence in the dough. There was so much cheese on the slices I tried (the owner says he uses more cheese than just about anyone) that the cheese dominated the flavor and texture of the pizza. I did not ask whether the dough was room temperature fermented or cold fermented since I would be able to adjust the yeast quantity for the desired fermentation time. Since eggs and milk add to the cost of production of the dough, I would say that there is perhaps not a lot of eggs in the dough and perhaps just enough milk to get the final hydration to around 50% or so (including the water content of the milk and eggs).

The second Greek style pizzeria I visited uses 3 gallons of water for 50 pounds of flour. That is a hydration of 50%. The owner who makes the dough was not there the day I visited but his wife and the substitute dough maker told me pretty much what they did although there was some confusion about the amount of oil (it appears that there is oil in the dough but little or no oil put in the pans). That pizzeria offers two sizes of pizzas, 10" and 16". The dough ball weights for those sizes are 8 ounces and 15-16 ounces, respectively.

I will see if I can give you both formulations. Is there a particular size pizza you want to make, and is there a particular type of yeast you would like to use, and is there a particular type and duration of fermentation you want to use? The second pizzeria uses a room temperature fermentation and the dough can last throughout the day. If the kitchen is hot, they move the dough balls into the cooler and use them as needed throughout the day. I was told that the bake time, using a conveyor oven, is 7 minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if the first pizza place uses a similar regimen. Both use fresh yeast.

Peter

Offline Ev

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #241 on: June 22, 2011, 12:58:17 PM »
Peter,
 Thanks for offering to develop some new formulas to try. If you'd rather just suggest a % for the egg & milk that I could plug into my current recipe, that would be fine too. Chances are I won't see much difference myself, seeing as how I tend to pack on the toppings. In fact, the last pictures posted here with the Ischia starter didn't taste any different to me than the formula you posted back at post #20, which is my standard go-to recipe. That formula calls for 63% hy. ; quite a bit different than the 50% being suggested now, but hey, I'll try anything once! ;)  For these experiments, I would be willing to lighten up on the toppings to get an idea what the dough is doing.
  The .4% IDY works well for me with a 24hr. cold ferment, though, I have ready access to fresh cake yeast as well.
 I tend to make 10" pies using my "Blackbuster" steel pans. I have always oiled or at least "Pammed" my pans before baking. Sometimes I proof in the pans and sometimes I don't. It doesn't seem to make much difference. Any help you would like to offer will be appreciated very much.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #242 on: June 22, 2011, 03:28:32 PM »
Steve,

I took a stab at coming up with a couple of Greek style dough formulations for you to attempt based on my analysis of the two Greek style pizzas I tried during my recent trip to Massachusetts. For convenience, I will refer to the two formulations as Greek MA#1 (with the eggs and milk) and Greek MA#2. In order to have a record of the information I gathered, I will set forth the large batch size as well as an 8-ounce dough ball weight for a 10" pizza. The thickness factor I used for the 10" pizza is 8/(3.14159 x 5 x 5) = 0.101659. I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with all of the numbers for the various dough formulations. To keep matters tidy and uncluttered as much as possible, I will post the two formulations for the Greek MA#1 in this post and the formulations for Greek MA#2 in the next post.

Greek MA#1--Large Dough Batch
Pillsbury 4X Flour (100%):
Water (41.725%):
CY (0.875%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Milk (fresh, 2% milkfat) (8%):
Eggs, large (2%):
Total (155.35%):
22680 g  |  800 oz | 50 lbs
9463.23 g  |  333.8 oz | 20.86 lbs
198.45 g | 7 oz | 0.44 lbs |
396.9 g | 14 oz | 0.88 lbs | 23.7 tbsp | 1.48 cups
226.8 g | 8 oz | 0.5 lbs | 16.8 tbsp | 1.05 cups
1814.4 g | 64 oz | 4 lbs | 120.96 tbsp | 7.56 cups
453.6 g | 16 oz | 1 lbs | 29.87 tbsp | 1.87 cups
35233.38 g | 1242.8 oz | 77.68 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: No bowl residue compensation; all of the baker's percents other than for flour and water are my estimates

Greek MA#1--Single Dough Ball for 10" Pizza
Pillsbury 4X Flour (100%):
Water (41.725%):
CY (0.875%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Milk (fresh, 2% milkfat) (8%):
Eggs, large (2%):
Total (155.35%):
148.18 g  |  5.23 oz | 0.33 lbs
61.83 g  |  2.18 oz | 0.14 lbs
1.3 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs |
2.59 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.46 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
1.48 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
11.85 g | 0.42 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.37 tsp | 0.79 tbsp
2.96 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.59 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
230.2 g | 8.12 oz | 0.51 lbs | TF = 0.1033869
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.101859; dough is for a single 10" pizza; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%; all of the baker's percents other than for flour and water are my estimates

As you will see from the above, once you downsize from the bulk dough recipe to a single small dough ball, the amounts of milk and egg are quite small. You will also note that the nominal hydration for the recipe is quite low (41.725%), but once you account for the fact that milk is about 89.34% water and that eggs are about 75.8% water, the total effective hydration gets to a bit over 50%. That figure was a guess on my part but it is in line with the hydration used in Greek MA#2 (as noted in the next post). Maybe someday I will get more and better intelligence in order to refine the Greek MA#1 formulation, especially if you have good results with it. In your case, should you decide to use IDY instead of cake yeast, you can either (1) use the expanded dough calculating tool with IDY at 0.292% (one-third of 0.875%) and monitor the fermentation (most likely at room temperature with some refrigeration if needed), or (2) use the expanded dough calculating tool with IDY at 0.40% IDY and use your normal 24-hour cold fermentation. For your information, 1.3 grams of cake yeast is 1.3/17 = slightly less than 1/12th of one of those small 17-gram cake yeast cubes sold in some supermarkets.

I also called Pillsbury Foodservice today to get more information (including spec sheets) on the Pillsbury 4X (sometimes called Pillsbury XXXX) flour. I was told that the Pillsbury 4X flour is a bleached, bromated flour with a protein content of 12.6%. There are actually two versions of that flour, one with enrichment (vitamins, iron, etc.) and one unenriched. Both are malted. For comparison purposes, the King Arthur bread flour has a protein content of 12.7%. As you know, that flour is not bleached or bromated and is enriched and malted. If you do not have access to the Pillsbury 4X flour, a very close alternative from General Mills is the GM Full Strength flour. I compared the specs for the two flours and they are very close. You can see the specs for the Full Strength flour at http://www.gmiflour.com/gmflour/Flour_SpecSheet/FullStrength%20Enr%20Mal%20Bl%20Bro53381.doc. FYI, both the Pillsbury 4X flour and the Full Strength flour are sold by General Mills. The Pillsbury retail flours are sold by the JM Smucker company. As you will see in the next post, the Greek MA#2 dough formulation uses the Full Strength flour.

Peter

EDIT (4/15/14): For the current Full Strength link, see http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/product/full-strength-flour-bromated-enriched-malted-50-lb/53391000

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #243 on: June 22, 2011, 03:44:50 PM »
Steve,

Here are the formulations for Greek MA#2:

Greek MA#2--Large Dough Batch
GM Full Strength Flour (100%):
Water (50.07%):
CY (0.875%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (0.95238%):
Sugar (0.50%):
Total (154.14738%):
22680 g  |  800 oz | 50 lbs
11355.88 g  |  400.56 oz | 25.03 lbs
198.45 g | 7 oz | 0.44 lbs |
396.9 g | 14 oz | 0.87 lbs | 23.7 tbsp | 1.48 cups
216 g | 7.62 oz | 0.48 lbs | 16 tbsp | 1 cups
113.4 g | 4 oz | 0.25 lbs | 9.48 tbsp | 0.59 cups
34960.62 g | 1233.18 oz | 77.07 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: No bowl residue compensation; estimates for baker's percents for salt and sugar are mine

Greek MA#2--Single Dough Ball for 10" Pizza
GM Full Strength Flour (100%):
Water (50.07%):
CY (0.875%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (0.95238%):
Sugar (0.50%):
Total (154.14738%):
149.34 g  |  5.27 oz | 0.33 lbs
74.77 g  |  2.64 oz | 0.16 lbs
1.31 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs |
2.61 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.47 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
1.42 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.32 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
0.75 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.19 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
230.2 g | 8.12 oz | 0.51 lbs | TF = 0.1033869
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.101859; dough is for a single 10" pizza; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%; estimates for baker's percents for salt and sugar are mine

Many of the same comments that I set forth for Greek MA#1 apply here also.

For your additional information, when I ordered the pizza (10" pepperoni) at the Greek MA#2 pizzeria, I had half of it left over. I weighed it at my friend's apartment and it was 8.5 ounces, which I doubled to 17 ounces. There were 17 pepperoni slices. That is about 30 grams worth, or a bit over an ounce. The cheese was a blend of white cheddar cheese and mozzarella cheese. My guess is that the pizza lost about 7-8% of its unbaked weight during baking. Maybe these numbers will give you an idea as to the amount of sauce and cheese to use, as well as pepperoni slices if you use pepperoni.

Peter

« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 04:49:30 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Ev

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #244 on: June 22, 2011, 07:54:44 PM »
Peter,

 Wow, you work fast! Thanks a lot for working out these formula, I'll try them both side by side along with the old recipe and see what's what.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #245 on: June 22, 2011, 08:05:09 PM »
Steve,

Good luck. I look forward to your results. Hopefully we will get to see if low hydration Greek style doughs function well.

I neglected to mention that you may have to tweak the ingredients, especially the flour and water, but I know that you are adept at doing that sort of thing.

Peter

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #246 on: June 23, 2011, 01:57:59 PM »
Well I don't know about "adept", but I think I can work it out if need be. It probably won't be til sometime next week. I have a wfo thing this weekend to plan for first. Maybe I'll try a batch in Normas' deck oven on Tuesday if she's not got too many of her own experiments to conduct.

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #247 on: June 23, 2011, 02:12:35 PM »
Steve,

There's no urgency. I plan to be out of town for a while starting next week and just wanted to get you the formulations while everything was still fresh in my mind.

Peter

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #248 on: June 23, 2011, 02:49:25 PM »

Maybe I'll try a batch in Normas' deck oven on Tuesday if she's not got too many of her own experiments to conduct.


Steve,

You know I really like Greek pizzas.  If you have time to make a batch or more, bring the dough to market.  I always have room for a Greek pizza.   :)

Norma
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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #249 on: June 23, 2011, 02:58:46 PM »
Thanks, Peter.
Thanks, Norma. I'll bring some doughs on Tuesday