Author Topic: Hello Chicago, looking for advice.  (Read 3081 times)

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Offline mmarston

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Hello Chicago, looking for advice.
« on: December 04, 2008, 08:59:05 AM »
Hello Chicago,

Iíve been making Neapolitan and NY style pizzas for some time now but Iím looking to try a Chicago style someday soon. Now that my 2stone is in the garage for the winter making pizza for parties is not much fun.

I was hoping that someone whoís familiar with these recipes would describe the differences between the more popular types. I do not plan to use a crust on top and would probably use 6 in 1s, Italian sausage and possibly mushroom fillings for my first attempts. Iím open to filling and cheese suggestions as Iíve mostly used fresh Mozz and Parm on my pizzas.

Thanks,
Michael
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry


Offline JConk007

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Re: Hello Chicago, looking for advice.
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2008, 10:33:18 AM »
Go to pizza -style -Chicago- and go to thread -Malnati  Deep dish with seminola -that looks like the one I will try next! same goes  for me,The brick oven is closed and working indoor creating different styles
Have fun
John
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Hello Chicago, looking for advice.
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2008, 12:24:24 PM »
Michael,

I am far from an expert on the Chicago style, but if you want to get a general idea as to some of the differences between the more popular Chicago deep-dish pizzas as sold by Gino's East, Lou Malnati's, Giordano's and Uno's, you may want to take a look at the ingredients for some of their particular pizzas. For example, as noted at Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2467.msg22170.html#msg22170, the ingredients for a typical Gino's East pizza are:

Gino's East
11" Deep Dish Cheese Pizza

INGREDIENTS: DOUGH (FLOUR [WHEAT FLOUR, MALTED BARLEY FLOUR, NIACIN, IRON, THIAMINE, MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, FOLIC ACID], WATER, VEGETABLE OIL [CORN OIL, EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL], DOUGH CONDITIONER [SUGAR, CREAM OF TARTAR, FDC YELLOW #5 AND #6, YEAST]), PIZZA SAUCE (TOMATOES [FRESH TOMATOES, TOMATO PUREE, SALT, CALCIUM CHLORIDE, CITRIC ACID], WATER, CORN STARCH, SUGAR, SALT, SPICES) MOZZARELLA CHEESE (PASTEURIZED PART SKIM MILK, CHEESE CULTURES, SALT, ENZYMES, CALCIUM CHLORIDE), ROMANO CHEESE (PART SKIM COWS MILK, CHEESE CULTURE, SALT, ENZYMES), OREGANO

and, for a typical Lou Malnati's pizza (pepperoni):

Crust: flour, water, corn oil, olive oil, yeast;
Mozzarella cheese (pasteurized part-skim milk, culture, salt, enzyme);
Sauce: tomatoes, tomato puree, salt, citric acid;
Pepperoni (pork, beef, salt, spices, sugar, lactic acid, starter culture, extraction of paprika, garlic powder, spice extractions, sodium nitrite, BHA/BHT, citric acid);
Romano cheese (part skim sheepís milk, part-skim cowís milk, cheese cultures, salt, enzymes, sodium aluminocilicate (anti-caking agent), oregano.

As noted at Reply 23 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5674.msg51855.html#msg51855, the ingredients for some typical Giordano's pizzas are given as follows:

Cheese Stuffed Pizza
 
Ingredients:  Crust (Flour, water, vegetable oil, yeast, salt, spices), Sauce (Tomatoes, Tomato Puree, salt, spices, calcium chloride), Mozzarella Cheese (Pasteurized whole and skim milk, cheese cultures, salt, enzymes), Parmesan Cheese (Pasteurized part skim milk, cheese cultures, salt, powdered cellulose)
 
Spinach Stuffed Pizza
 
Ingredients:  Crust (Flour, water, vegetable oil, olive, yeast, salt, spices), Sauce (Tomatoes, Tomato Puree, salt, spices, calcium chloride), Mozzarella Cheese (Pasteurized whole and skim milk, cheese cultures, salt, enzymes), Parmesan Cheese (Pasteurized part skim milk, cheese cultures, salt, powdered cellulose), Spinach.
 
Veggie Stuffed Pizza
 
Ingredients:  Crust (Flour, water, vegetable oil, yeast, salt, spices), Sauce (Tomatoes, Tomato Puree, salt, spices, calcium chloride), Mozzarella Cheese (Pasteurized whole and skim milk, cheese cultures, salt, enzymes),  Parmesan Cheese (Pasteurized part skim milk, cheese cultures, salt, powdered cellulose), Onions, Green Pepper, Mushrooms.

I have not seen an up-to-date list of ingredients on the forum for a typical Uno's deep-dish pizza, but I found the following ingredients list from the Uno's website (http://www.unos.com/kiosk/nutritionUnos.html):

INGREDIENTS: Pizza Dough mix (enriched wheat cake flour, soybean oil, salt, sucrose, instant dry yeast), Mozzarella Cheese, Pizza Sauce (tomato puree, tomato, carrot, olive oil, salt, onion, garlic, sugar, spices, citric acid), Soybean Oil, grated Romano Cheese. 

What you may want to note is that none of the ingredients lists call for using cornmeal or semolina or anything like that, although I am sure that at some time cornmeal or semolina was used by some pizza operator in the Chicago area. You will also note that Gino's uses dyes (food colorings) to get the characteristic yellow/orange crust color. Gino's also uses cream of tartar as a conditioning agent; Lou Malnati's, Giordano's and Uno's do not. You will also see that the Gino's East and Malnati's ingredients lists do not call for any salt is the dough. And only Gino's East and Uno's use sugar (sucrose) in their doughs. Unlike the others, Uno's uses cake flour, and also carrot in the sauce, which I have read about before but never seen in an actual sauce formulation. You will also see that none of the above products call for a solid fat, such as butter or margarine or a Crisco-like product, although they are apparently used by some of the operators to grease the pans.

In terms of members who have attempted to create their own versions of the above pizzas, I would say that DKM is the acknowledged expert in the Lou Malnati's style, foodblogger is the acknowledged expert in the Gino's East style, and that buzz is the acknowledged expert in the Giordano's style. DKM also has a cornmeal deep-dish dough recipe that I have used and liked, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dkm_chicago.php. There are also several other currently active members who have distinguished themselves with their own deep-dish creations, including loowaters, BTB, and goosen1. If you look for their threads in the Chicago Style index, you will find some of their dough recipes/formulations that have gotten rave reviews.

Because of all the many variations in the Chicago deep-dish style, when Boy Hits Car (Mike) and I designed the deep-dish dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dd_calculator.html, we did our best to include in that tool all of the many different ingredients that we identified as being used (including potato flour!!), or possibly being used in some cases, for the deep-dish style. So, if you find a recipe in baker's percent format, or if you would like to create one on your own, you should be able to come up with just about any type of deep-dish dough you want, for any desired pan size. The tool also has an option to make a separate crust for a stuffed deep-dish version should you wish to do that.

Knowing your own taste preferences, and possibly with help from other members on the types of tomatoes and cheeses to use, you might be able to use the above information to zero in on a Chicago deep-dish style that you think will best meet those preferences.

Peter

« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 07:49:39 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline mmarston

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Re: Hello Chicago, looking for advice.
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2008, 09:24:50 AM »
Peter,

Thanks for all the info. I forgot all about the recipe link on the home page so I 'll start out with DKM's dough and move on from there. My local kitchen shop was out of small Chicago style pans so I'll have to wait till next weekend.
I'm planning to make a traditional Mozz/sausage and also a Mexican version with Oaxaca and Cotija cheese. Sauce, chilies and meat to be determined.

On another note I finally got around to mixing my KA Italian flour with KASL (60% KASL 40% KA Italian) for a Neapolitian style pie. It worked well and was very similar to Caputo 00. As usual baked around 800f for 2+ minutes.

Michael
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Hello Chicago, looking for advice.
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2008, 09:30:45 AM »
Michael,

If you want to see a real beauty of a Mexican-style deep-dish pizza, check out the one at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4769.msg40490.html#msg40490.

Peter

Offline mmarston

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Re: Hello Chicago, looking for advice.
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2008, 01:38:10 PM »
That is one good looking pizza. I'm thinking about something similar but with pork carnitas (if my pork store will sell me enough lard ) and a sauce based on Muir Glen fire-roasted tomatoes. I always wanted to try a Mexican pizza but could never bring myself to do it on a Neapolitan crust. The Chicago style seems like a great vehicle for more imaginative fillings.
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry